The Religion of Peace Is At It Again

[apdst]

Those rascals. I guess we just don't understand where they're coming from.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/20/cbsnews_investigates/main4110408.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_4110408

Boy, 12, Beheads Man In Al Qaeda Video

Amid cries of ‘Allah o Akbar’ (god is great), a young boy, barely 12 years old, lifts his machete and strikes at his victim who is lying on the ground, all tied up for the kill.

Waving a ‘V’ for victory sign with his right hand, the boy picks up the severed head and shows it around to the chants of applause from an audience gathered in a remote part of the region straddling the mountainous range which divides Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The performance in this chilling episode which may simply shock most people around the world, is the case of militant justice meted out to supposed traitors. It involves Al Qaeda and the Taliban slapping exemplary punishment to an individual suspected to be a spy for the government.

“This (boy) is a killing machine who has been indoctrinated from age nine and prepared for his act by the time he is 12” says a Pakistani intelligence official who showed the video clip to CBS News as just one piece of evidence of Al Qaeda and the Taliban training young boys to become accomplished killers, even before they become teen-agers.

This video has been captured by Pakistan’s military troops during their operations in the country’s semi autonomous tribal areas, as they went from village to village, searching for militant sanctuaries.

In the village of Spinkai-Roghzai where a group of journalists including CBS News were taken by Pakistan’s military on Sunday in the Waziristan tribal region, officials showed debris of what is described as a suicide training ‘nursery’. Under a pile of bricks lay the remains of an oil extracting factory which was a cover for training young boys to become ideologically charged up.

“There is no harm in taking ‘jehad’ (holy war) for the right cause” read the sign board in a training class, documented in yet another Pakistani intelligence video, secretly captured ahead of the operation, through the use of hidden cameras inserted around the front compound of the school. A teacher, who wrapped himself up to his face with a piece of cloth, pointed towards a list of “recommendations for students” while surrounded by teenagers, urging them to embrace virtues such as “accept the way forward through sacrifice” and “accept that laying down your life for the right cause is not a waste”.

[micfranklin]

Child soldier/executioner....is this suppsoed to be new in the world?

[preservanation]

Chilling.
They are breeding and brainwashing children to be heartless killing machines in the name of a religion...nice.

[micfranklin]

This is what happens when a group that could've been good becomes corrupted and takes a hold of younger people.

[apdst]

This is what happens when a group that could've been good becomes corrupted and takes a hold of younger people.

At first I disagreed, but I guess you're right. Tha Nazis could have been good.

[micfranklin]

At first I disagreed, but I guess you're right. Tha Nazis could have been good.

Well when you put it that way everyone doesn't start out as evil or racist.

[jafar00]

What kind of whacked out excuse for a religion are they following apdst?

[preservanation]

At first I disagreed, but I guess you're right. Tha Nazis could have been good.A kinder and gentler Nazism?
Well it seems to work for the left when it comes to Marx and Stalin.
"This time it'll be good, just give us one more chance at it, we'll make it work this time, trust us, you'll see....please."
Bah

[Tessy]

Chilling.
They are breeding and brainwashing children to be heartless killing machines in the name of a religion...nice.
Oh, just like Americans do!

If they actually intend to fight off the American anti-christ government
of human enslavement, tyranny, and the mass genocides propagating
therefrom they might need to.

The men in power in the west right now are the same ones who brought
you such loving and tender resorts as Auschwitz, Neubrandenburg, Krakow,
and the hundreds of others just 70 years back - barely one lifetime ago.

http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/blmap.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prisoner_of_War_Camps_in_WWII

War is hell. And if you don't like the results of the American efforts that
you see in the world today DO SOMETHING to stop it. And I don't mean
kill that boys mother - which is the current remedy in place. Du'oh!

[Tessy]

And another thing... did you notice that she opened the broadcast with:

The US Military released a video today...

Notice all the weapons they are holding are paid for by the United States
via "Wilson's War" type arrangement. Also notice that the training exercises
and instruction style is classical "School Of The Americas" type death-squad
training. I say this film was produced by US forces be them CIA, some branch
of MI, or whatever.

[Elrathin]

As usual another post in which someone tried to paint the ENTIRE Islam religion as being bad for what radicals do.

Yes, what these radicals did was bad, but by no means are they representative of Islam.

[Osborn F. Enready]

No more representative of Islam than terrorist abortion clinic bombers are to Christianity.

[Elrathin]

No more representative of Islam than terrorist abortion clinic bombers are to Christianity.

No disagreement there, but some on the right continually try to paint Islam as a religion of terror.

[micfranklin]

Just to show how overlooked it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

[Tessy]

Yup, agreed here too. But also to take note of is that in
Islam's case allot, most, (or all?) of the radicalism that is
prevalent in Mohammed's name was set up, promoted, and
funded by the CIA quite directly.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Elrathin said:
No disagreement there, but some on the right continually try to paint Islam as a religion of terror.

No doubt, but I know some, and am sure there are many on the left who do the same.

Its an ignorance issue, not a partisan issue.

[Tessy]

"Partisan" these days is ignorance so same difference really. ;)

[Osborn F. Enready]

LOL.... in many ways you are right tessy.... ;)

[Wndrtch]

Chilling.
They are breeding and brainwashing children to be heartless killing machines in the name of a religion...nice.

Unfortunately, it isn't just AQ or Taliban teaching this stuff. There are hundreds of groups all around the World that are indoctorinating the young to hate and kill those not of Muslim belief. And ME Governments just stand by knowing full well that this hatred is going on their Countries, and do nothing to put a stop to it.

They do nothing,

Then Lockerbee
Then the US Marine Baracks bombing in Lebanon
Then the 1993 WTC bombing
Then the Japan subway bombing
Then the Kobar Towers bombing
Then the USS Cole bombing
Then 911
Then the Bali nightclub bombing
Then the London bombing
Then etc...

Muslims complaining about Westerners on their soil, should shut up or police their own societies so we don't have to do it for them.

[PatrickHenry]

Then the USS Liberty

[jafar00]

Unfortunately, it isn't just AQ or Taliban teaching this stuff. There are hundreds of groups all around the World that are indoctorinating the young to hate and kill those not of Muslim belief. And ME Governments just stand by knowing full well that this hatred is going on their Countries, and do nothing to put a stop to it.

They do nothing,

Then Lockerbee
Then the US Marine Baracks bombing in Lebanon
Then the 1993 WTC bombing
Then the Japan subway bombing
Then the Kobar Towers bombing
Then the USS Cole bombing
Then 911
Then the Bali nightclub bombing
Then the London bombing
Then etc...

Muslims complaining about Westerners on their soil, should shut up or police their own societies so we don't have to do it for them.

Yeah right, there are 1.5 billion of us dead set on killing you. How you survived up until now is a miracle ;)
Islam does not teach, nor condone the actions of terrorists.
By the way, the japan attack I think you listed the was the Aum Shinrikyo cult. I think they are the odd one out there ;)

[Wndrtch]

Yeah right, there are 1.5 billion of us dead set on killing you. How you survived up until now is a miracle ;)
Islam does not teach, nor condone the actions of terrorists.
By the way, the japan attack I think you listed the was the Aum Shinrikyo cult. I think they are the odd one out there ;)

Common jafar00, I never said ALL Muslims are terorists, nor did I asert that Islam itself preaches hate. I said that there are several hundred terrorist groups out in the World that are teaching hatred. I also said that ME Governments have been lacking in their response to the hate-teaching.

I think I've said to you before, that I distinguish between "average" Muslims and Muslim Terrorists.

I don't lump all your kind all together, you know! :peace:

[preservanation]

Islam does not teach, nor condone the actions of terrorists.
Stop confusing me.
Whom am I supposed to believe, jafar are the Mullahs?
Ahhhh...My brain hurts!

[micfranklin]

Stop confusing me.
Whom am I supposed to believe, jafar are the Mullahs?
Ahhhh...My brain hurts!

The ones that don't enjoy blowing shit up?

[preservanation]

Ants are one thing...poeple are another.

[preservanation]

I got a story.
I grew up in new haven in the 60's and 70's (Joe Lieberman was my neighbor, good runner! [Physically]).
I used to watch a bearded guy walk down the street with a surgical mask on and tiptoeing.
Why? I asked my Mom. She said because he's a Sikh and doesn't believe in killing any living thing, he's a Muslim.
Cool I guess.
I wonder where he is now?

[micfranklin]

So that's one person. What point are you trying to make?

[preservanation]

Mic...One person?
His first name was "Sikh" and his surname was "Muslim"? and that's that?
Please...It's a sect.
Stop confusing preserva further.

[micfranklin]

Wait, how is it a sect? Because a few individuals out there do radical things the whole thing is a sect or something?

[preservanation]

SIKH
link (http://www.sikh.net/index2.htm)

Wait, how is it a sect? Because a few individuals out there do radical things the whole thing is a sect or something?Radical nothing.
They seem the sanest of them all!

Plus they got cool bedrooms.
All the better to sail paper subpoena airplanes in...
http://www.sikh.net/Links/gtinvew3.jpg

[preservanation]

So that's one person. What point are you trying to make?
The Sikh was afraid of breathing in bugs or stepping in ants and the like (killing any living thing was forbidden in his brand of Islam)...I kid you not!
It has to be true, my Mommy said so!

[Mia]

http://fateh.sikhnet.com/s/SikhIntro

A Sikh may be Muslim, or Hindu, or another religion.

It may be properly termed a sect, but not a sect of Islam.

[jafar00]

Sikhs are not Muslims just as Muslims are not Sikhs. Neither are Jews.
Stop confusing Preservanation please :D

[Mia]

Sikhs CAN be Muslims! Or Hindus. (They just aren't always either, much less both).

It's like the rectangle/square thing, kind-of.

Please see my source: http://fateh.sikhnet.com/s/SikhIntro

[preservanation]

Sikhs are not Muslims just as Muslims are not Sikhs. Neither are Jews.
Okay.
That explains it.
Thanks, jafer!

It's like the rectangle/square thing, kind-of thing.Ok,
That explains it.
Thanks, mia!

Stop confusing Preservanation please
Love you, Bro!
:D

[micfranklin]

And this is why I can never major in religious studies.

[preservanation]

It may be properly termed a sect, but not a sect of Islam.
A sect of what?
There has to be something it's a sect of.
Sikhs CAN be Muslims! Or Hindus. (They just aren't always either, much less both).

Hinduism?
Jafar...help

[Troubadour]

Chilling.
They are breeding and brainwashing children to be heartless killing machines....

You don't say...

http://reporter.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/03/20/videogamekids.jpg

http://www.chandlermay.com/images/gcs_interior.jpg

[Tessy]

Unfortunately, it isn't just AQ or Taliban teaching this stuff. There are hundreds of groups all around the World that are indoctorinating the young to hate and kill those not of Muslim belief. And ME Governments just stand by knowing full well that this hatred is going on their Countries, and do nothing to put a stop to it.

They do nothing,

Then Lockerbee
Then the US Marine Baracks bombing in Lebanon
Then the 1993 WTC bombing
Then the Japan subway bombing
Then the Kobar Towers bombing
Then the USS Cole bombing
Then 911
Then the Bali nightclub bombing
Then the London bombing
Then etc...

Muslims complaining about Westerners on their soil, should shut up or police their own societies so we don't have to do it for them.

Oh, THAT IS SUCH BULLSHIT!!!

Then Lockerbee
Nothing at all to do with Muslims!


Then the US Marine Baracks bombing in Lebanon
I dunno...


Then the 1993 WTC bombing
Fully admitted to that this was a CIA operation! And if the head of the CIA at the time isn't enough for you there's plenty of other evidence as well.


Then the Japan subway bombing
WTF are you talking about? You mean the saran gas? Again nothing to do with muslims. It was a nut case religious group based on Tendikyo which is nothing at all like Islam.


Then the Kobar Towers bombing
I dunno...


Then the USS Cole bombing
Also a now admitted CIA operation.


Then 911
Clearly CIA tho not admitted yet.


Then the Bali nightclub bombing
I dunno...


Then the London bombing
MI6 and CIA joint operation... Nothing to do with Muslims at all!


Who the hell are you a CIA agent or something? Anyone who reads our own government documents knows better then this baby-poop propaganda! Of course if you don't or can't read then you should just shut the hell up. Uninformed opinions spoken with authority are dangerous and a BIG part of the problem in the USA right now. Only a total slime-bag would do what you just did.

[Trish]

Oh, just like Americans do!

I

Your sources to support this opinion please.

[PostmodernProphet]

Sikhs CAN be Muslims! Or Hindus. (They just aren't always either, much less both).

sorry, but that is an absurd statement, as is the thought that it is a sect......

the Sikh religion is the fifth largest in the world and is based upon it's own unique belief structure.....saying that one can be Sikh and Muslim would be like saying someone can be Christian and Buddhist or Muslim and Jewish.....unlike the Hindus, the Sikh are monotheistic....they do not accept the identity of YHWH as would Christianity, Judaism or Islam.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism

[Mia]

A sect of what?
There has to be something it's a sect of.


...a sect is generally a small religious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) or political (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics) group that has broken off from a larger group, for example from a large, well-established religious group, like a denomination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_denomination), usually due to a dispute about doctrinal matters.

Note the word 'generally' - it's not a strict definition. There can be a sect of people that broke off from x and y to become z, retaining their respective x or y roots to a small or large degree.

Hindu = x, Muslim = y, Sikh = z in the current example :-)

[Wndrtch]

Then Lockerbee Nothing at all to do with Muslims!

Known as the Lockerbie bombing and the Lockerbie air disaster in the UK, it became the subject of Britain's largest criminal inquiry, led by its smallest police force, Dumfries and Galloway Constabulary. Since 189 of the victims were American, the bombing stood as the deadliest terrorist attack against the United States until the September 11, 2001 attacks.

Abdel Basset Ali al-MegrahiAfter a three-year joint investigation by the Dumfries and Galloway Constabulary and the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation, during which 15,000 witness statements were taken, indictments for murder were issued on November 13, 1991, against Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi, a Libyan intelligence officer and the head of security for Libyan Arab Airlines (LAA), and Lamin Khalifah Fhimah, the LAA station manager in Luqa Airport, Malta. United Nations sanctions against Libya and protracted negotiations with the Libyan leader Colonel Muammar al-Gaddafi secured the handover of the accused on April 5, 1999 to Scottish police at Camp Zeist, Netherlands, chosen as a neutral venue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103

At last check, Lybia is a Muslim country. The name "Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi" is also Muslim.

I can see how you would be confused.

Then the US Marine Baracks bombing in Lebanon
I dunno...

Let me help you with that...

The 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing was a suicide bombing against the United States Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon on April 18, 1983 that killed over 60 people, mostly embassy staff members. It was the deadliest attack on a U.S. diplomatic mission up to that time, and is seen by some as marking the beginning of anti-U.S. attacks by Islamist groups.

Islamic Jihad Organization, often described as a "shadowy" group, claimed responsibility for the blast with a message "promis[ing] not to allow a single American to remain on Lebanese soil ... we mean every inch of Lebanese territory. ..."[1]

The attack came in the wake of the intervention of a Multinational Force, made up of Western countries, including Americans, in Lebanese Civil War, to try and restore order and central government authority. It also followed the massacre of Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps by Lebanese Christian militiamen, and four years after the anti-Western Islamic Revolution in Iran.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_1983_U.S._Embassy_bombing

Does that help?

Then the 1993 WTC bombing
Fully admitted to that this was a CIA operation! And if the head of the CIA at the time isn't enough for you there's plenty of other evidence as well.

I see, you're so far to the Left, that you ran off the map. No wonder you see monsters everywhere!

BTW - "Admitted to" by whom?

Then the Japan subway bombing
WTF are you talking about? You mean the saran gas? Again nothing to do with muslims. It was a nut case religious group based on Tendikyo which is nothing at all like Islam.

Ok, this one I'll give you. I had thought that the Japan Serin gass attack was by a Muslim extremist group.

I was wrong on this one.

Then the Kobar Towers bombing
I dunno...

You know, they have this thing called "Google"....

The Khobar Towers bombing was a terrorist attack on part of a housing complex in the city of Khobar, Saudi Arabia, located near the national oil company (Saudi Aramco) headquarters of Dhahran. In 1996, it was being used to house foreign military personnel, including Americans.

On June 25, 1996, per official statement, individuals identified as members of Hizballah Al-Hijaz (Party of God in the Hijaz)[1][2] by the United States, exploded a fuel truck adjacent to Building #131 in the housing complex. This eight-story building housed United States Air Force personnel from the 4404th Wing (Provisional), primarily from a deployed rescue squadron and deployed fighter squadron. In all, 19 U.S. servicemen and one Saudi were killed and 372 of many nationalities were wounded.

According to the United States, a group of terrorists who wanted to remove Americans from Saudi Arabia organized the attack. Suspicious activity was reported in the area of the Khobar Towers compound in the weeks preceding the attack and during May 1996 the U.S. military local area threat condition (THREATCON) was at Charlie (the highest level being Delta) due to the recent terrorist bombing in Bahrain that killed 3 people.

The terrorists were reported to have smuggled explosives into Saudi Arabia from Lebanon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khobar_Towers

Then the USS Cole bombing
Also a now admitted CIA operation.

"Admitted" by whom?

I just love how your canned response is "admitted CIA operation". How convenient for you, to have such a simple comment for questions you don't have answers for.

Then 911
Clearly CIA tho not admitted yet.

:madlaugh:


Then the Bali nightclub bombing
I dunno...

:shame: :help:

The 2002 Bali bombings occurred on 12 October 2002 in the tourist district of Kuta on the Indonesian island of Bali. The attack was the deadliest act of terrorism in the history of Indonesia, killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

The attack involved the detonation of three bombs: a backpack-mounted device carried by a suicide bomber; a large car bomb, both of which were detonated in or near popular nightclubs in Kuta; and a third much smaller device detonated outside the United States consulate in Denpasar, causing only minor damage.

Various members of Jemaah Islamiyah, a violent Islamist group, were convicted in relation to the bombings, including three individuals who were sentenced to death. Abu Bakar Bashir, the alleged spiritual leader of Jemaah Islamiyah, was found guilty of conspiracy, and sentenced to two and a half years imprisonment.[1] Riduan Isamuddin, generally known as Hambali and the suspected former operational leader of Jemaah Islamiyah, is in U.S. custody in an undisclosed location, and has not been charged in relation to the bombing or any other crime.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali_nightclub_bombing



Then the London bombing
MI6 and CIA joint operation... Nothing to do with Muslims at all!

Honestly, you have to stop listening to the voices in your head. They are not real, my friend.

The 7 July 2005 London bombings (also called the 7/7 bombings) were a series of coordinated bomb blasts planned by Muslim terrorists that hit London's public transport system during the morning rush hour. At 8:50 a.m., three bombs exploded within fifty seconds of each other on three London Underground trains. A fourth bomb exploded on a bus nearly an hour later at 9:47 a.m. in Tavistock Square. The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four suicide bombers, injured 700, and caused disruption of the city's transport system (severely for the first day) and the country's mobile telecommunications infrastructure. The series of suicide-bomb explosions constituted the largest and deadliest terrorist attack on London in its history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

Who the hell are you a CIA agent or something? Anyone who reads our own government documents knows better then this baby-poop propaganda! Of course if you don't or can't read then you should just shut the hell up. Uninformed opinions spoken with authority are dangerous and a BIG part of the problem in the USA right now. Only a total slime-bag would do what you just did.

Why, yes I am! How did you discover my secret?

Well since you know, I'm in charge of obfuscating the truth behind 911, keeping Roswell a secret, and protecting the secret formulae of Soilent Green. Later, Dr, Zaius is going to recommend me to protect the secret about talking Humans, from the Ape population.

Now, if you'll excuse me, there are some people I have to deal with, looking to expose the Moon Landing hoax...:love:

[potter]

Ah....as I suspected, this isn't a thread about Christianity as it most definately is not the religion of peace.....

[micfranklin]

It's probably gonna be another 9/11 conspiracy thread from the looks of it.

[preservanation]

Lockerbee Nothing at all to do with Muslims!

Then the 1993 WTC bombing
Fully admitted to that this was a CIA operation!

Then the USS Cole bombing
Also a now admitted CIA operation.

Then the London bombing
MI6 and CIA joint operation... Nothing to do with Muslims at all!



Uninformed opinions spoken with authority are dangerous and a BIG part of the problem in the USA right now.On this , you and I happen to agree.

[apdst]

Why is it so easy to, "create", terrorists amongst such a peace loving religion?

That's the argument against the war on terror; it creates more terrorists. Right?

Seems to be alotta would-be terrorists among the Islamic population, while the rest of the Islamic population sits back and does nothing. I guess moderate Muslims figger that if they do nothing, they will be accepted by whichever side wins; PC'ness on one side, Islam on the other side.

[lily]

That's the argument against the war on terror; it creates more terrorists. Right?



No, that's the argument for the Iraq war.

[apdst]

No, that's the argument for the Iraq war.

It still begs the question: Why are terrorists so readily available among the Islamic population? Islam is the Religion of Peace. Ya can't say that a large majority of Muslims aren't prone to violence, then watch Islam cough up terrorists like there's no tomorrow.

[micfranklin]

It still begs the question: Why are terrorists so readily available among the Islamic population? Islam is the Religion of Peace. Ya can't say that a large majority of Muslims aren't prone to violence, then watch Islam cough up terrorists like there's no tomorrow.

Every think brainwashing and corruption might be the cause of it? If people can brainwash kids into becoming street gangsters here or tricking them into serving in rebellions like Sierra Leone, then they can do the same for terrorists.

[apdst]

Every think brainwashing and corruption might be the cause of it?

What? That makes it ok?

I mean, we're not talking about 12 year-olds from a backwater redneck assed country like Sierra Leone. We're talking about Muslims from some of the most advanced counries in The World. The London train bombers were all British citizens. The failed attempt last year was carried out by terrorists who were not only British citizens, but were highly educated.

Sorry, I don't buy the brain washing thing, nor does it excuse the actions of Muslims.

[micfranklin]

What? That makes it ok?

I mean, we're not talking about 12 year-olds from a backwater redneck assed country like Sierra Leone. We're talking about Muslims from some of the most advanced counries in The World. The London train bombers were all British citizens. The failed attempt last year was carried out by terrorists who were not only British citizens, but were highly educated.

Sorry, I don't buy the brain washing thing, nor does it excuse the actions of Muslims.

Turning kids into child soldiers isn't any better than turning regular people into terrorists and I don't condone it, I don't know how many times I have to say that.

[4Reaganomics]

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

[micfranklin]

A propaganda site, how nice.

[4Reaganomics]

show me one stat that is false

[micfranklin]

I highly question that "source." All of the attacks listed at the bottom of the page, how come there's no individual story or news link for any of them, the same with the other years. I looked up and found a few of them but the rest....

[Mia]

Muslims are no different than anyone else. No better, and no worse. All have had times in their history where they have been the aggressor, the defender, the occupier, and the occupied.

Right now in this time, we have people of particular groups in all different positions - having more to to with their nations' circumstances in some cases than their religion.

In the Lebanon war, Christians were every bit as brutal and ruthless as Muslims - I think that's a great example of how we all react similarly to similar circumstances.

Terrorism as we know it today is different in application,but not in concept. We, Christian Americans, practiced what what terrorism in our day to revolt against Britain.

Our CIA engages in terrorism in present day as well - are they Muslim?

For a time, I felt that Islam inherently lent itself to violence more so than Christianity, but I have since discarded that notion.

Every religion can be twisted to suit the needs of anyone wishing to use it as a pretext - look at GWB.

[apdst]

We, Christian Americans, practiced what what terrorism in our day to revolt against Britain.

I would really love to see you support that piece of revisionist history.

[preservanation]

We, Christian Americans, practiced what what terrorism in our day to revolt against Britain. Me too.

What really bothers me is the bigoted "redneck" references which tries to equate good hard-working farmers who feed us and the rest of the world as terrorists.
This to me, is a disconnection to the farthest degree.
Yuck!

http://www.mwscomp.com/images/comptdif.jpg
*
* (http://www.mwscomp.com/python.html)

[apdst]

What really bothers me is the bigoted "redneck" references which tries to equate good hard-working farmers who feed us and the rest of the world as terrorists.

This is what we get when attitudes are dictated by politically correct thinking.

It's ok to call The Colonists terrorists and refer white working class Southerners as rednecks and trailer trash. In fact, it's politically correct to do so. What about the black share croppers? What should we call them?

[Mia]

When did I say anything about trailer trash or rednecks or people that feed us?

What are y'all talking about?

[micfranklin]

I see 4Reagan hasn't replied to my post on why there's no stories about some of those incidents.

[Mia]

Pres, are you saying Christians have not done their share of the war making and killing/conquering, because, um, that can't be backed up.

I am so not about the political correctness jazz. I'm not saying there are not real issues in modern day Islam.

I've stated quite the opposite in many threads.

I'm stating here a fact that one cannot point to them and say 'they are worse killers than anyone' as we drop bombs on their nations, and engage in covert operations, funding terrorists ourselves, to overturn regimes and all the other mess we do!

[preservanation]

Pres, are you saying Christians have not done their share of the war making and killing/conquering, because, um, that can't be backed up.

No.
But to make the equivalency argument in modern times...ie recently, is disingenuous and strikes as a diversionary argument.

[Mia]

Who is occupying who right now?

Who has military bases on whose land?

I don't look around and see Muslim nations' military in my neighborhood, do you?

Ours is in theirs, though ;-)

[apdst]

Ours is in theirs, though ;-)

Were we in the ME in 1993?

[Mia]

Um, YEAH.

[apdst]

Um, YEAH.

Oh? Which country had we invaded and occupired in 1993?

You must look at the why as much as the what. Why did Muslims kill a million Armenians? Why did Muslim kill 2.7 million Hindus? Why did Muslims invade Europe?

[Mia]

Oh? Which country had we invaded and occupired in 1993?

You must look at the why as much as the what. Why did Muslims kill a million Armenians? Why did Muslim kill 2.7 million Hindus? Why did Muslims invade Europe?

I didn't say invaded and occupied.

This was your question:

Were we in the ME in 1993?


And the simple, short answer is 'yes'.

The DUH answer was 'um, yeah'.

We've been in the ME for decades.............................

[apdst]

I refined the question. Our presence in the ME was at the behest of two different Muslim governments.

[Mia]

Did Iran ask us to overturn their regime? I missed that one....

[apdst]

Did Iran ask us to overturn their regime?

Yes, everytime they make a hostile threat.

[jafar00]

Yes, everytime they make a hostile threat.

What hostile threat? Link me to the last 3.

[apdst]

What hostile threat? Link me to the last 3.

1) http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/08/world/main1381121.shtml

2) http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article1909896.ece

3) http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411524152&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Even Obama admits that Iran is a threat http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/281249,CST-NWS-OBAMA03.article

[apdst]

Make no mistake. Iran has been begging us to kick their asses for 30 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khobar_Towers_bombing

In 1991, when we crossed the border into Iraq, we shouldn't have stopped until we reached the borders of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Turkmenistan. At that point, we should have said to the rest of The Mid-East: "Anyone else want some??"

[Elrathin]

Let's take a long look at these so called threats shall we? Are these really UNWARRANTED threats or are warranted.

First link:

1) http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/08/world/main1381121.shtml

The link above talks about Iran attacking IF tough measures were wrongly placed on them for a nuclear energy program they feel in their right to create.


2) http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article1909896.ece

This link above talks about Iran attacking IF they are attacked first by someone attacking their nuclear facilties. Imagine that, they wanting to retaliate if they are attacked. The bastards

3) http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411524152&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

The link above talks about Iran attacking IF they are attacked by Israel or the U.S. Again, Imagine that, they wanting to retaliate if they are attacked. The bastards, they should just want to let us attack them and do nothing.


http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/281249,CST-NWS-OBAMA03.article[/quote]

And lastly the above link Obama is talking about Iran being a threat IF they developed nuclear weapons. Something which has been proven they aren't doing now.

A lot of IFs in there apdst and frankly it is surprising to me that you somehow think all those links are threats when in reality they are notices that they will retaliate if attacked first.

[apdst]

What about the attacks upon US service members by Iran? I notice you skipped right over that.

[Mia]

'Even Obama' - what does that mean? Just because every one of our candidates except Ron Paul wants to go to more and more war - doesn't mean it's what we need to do!

[Elrathin]

What about the attacks upon US service members by Iran? I notice you skipped right over that.

And what do you call it when we assist (either directly or indirectly) other factions to overthrow their government?

Oh that's right, we call it freedom on the march right?

[Mia]

Yeah, we're just 'spreading democracy and freedom', for whom I'm not sure, as at least 50% of the time we arrange the exact OPPOSITE of freedom and democracy for the people underneath those we install.

[Tessy]

It still begs the question: Why are terrorists so readily available among the Islamic population? Islam is the Religion of Peace. Ya can't say that a large majority of Muslims aren't prone to violence, then watch Islam cough up terrorists like there's no tomorrow.

There are no terrorists. You've gone bananas is the answer you're looking for.

[apdst]

Yeah, we're just 'spreading democracy and freedom', for whom I'm not sure, as at least 50% of the time we arrange the exact OPPOSITE of freedom and democracy for the people underneath those we install.

The Iraqi people have such an aversion to freedom and democracy that 84% of them braved suicide bombers to go to the poll house. When's the past time that many Americans voted in a national election?

[Wndrtch]

What? That makes it ok?

I mean, we're not talking about 12 year-olds from a backwater redneck assed country like Sierra Leone. We're talking about Muslims from some of the most advanced counries in The World. The London train bombers were all British citizens. The failed attempt last year was carried out by terrorists who were not only British citizens, but were highly educated.

Sorry, I don't buy the brain washing thing, nor does it excuse the actions of Muslims.

I don't know why you don't believe that people can be brainwashed into doing things. Didn't Obam take off his lapel pin, right after he heard that "God Damn America" speech by his freind, just days after 911 happened?

[apdst]

I don't know why you don't believe that people can be brainwashed into doing things. Didn't Obam take off his lapel pin, right after he heard that "God Damn America" speech by his freind, just days after 911 happened?

I don't call it brainwashing. I call it a willful and contious decision.

[Wndrtch]

The Iraqi people have such an aversion to freedom and democracy that 84% of them braved suicide bombers to go to the poll house. When's the past time that many Americans voted in a national election?

When was the last time Americans showed up in those numbers, despite fear of the parking lot?

[Mia]

The Iraqi people have such an aversion to freedom and democracy that 84% of them braved suicide bombers to go to the poll house. When's the past time that many Americans voted in a national election?


Remind me - did the dude we backed in Iran give 'freedom and democracy' to his people? Or was it merely a 'pro-western' government?

Remind me - was Saddam, the guy we back in Iraq, a proponent of freedom and democracy, or merely a tool to combat the Iran we created?

See, what you need to understand is that most of what we do has nothing to do with freedom and democracy, and everything to do with oil and power.

Also, you will find if you study the ME, that the one thing that is more important to them than 'freedom and democracy' from their own leadership, is 'freedom' from US.

[jafar00]

1) http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/08/world/main1381121.shtml

2) http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article1909896.ece

3) http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411524152&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Even Obama admits that Iran is a threat http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/281249,CST-NWS-OBAMA03.article

1) That story is rather minimalist on Iran's position. "Pain"? perhaps it was a threat to cause economic pain through oil IF the US threatens sanctions.
Sounds like a threat to retaliate to me. Looks like they achieved their objective. Look how much Oil has gone up in the 2 years since that article. Look how much the US$ has gone down.
Look what your sanctions got you. An Iran even more determined to make it's own nuclear fuel now as a matter of great national pride rather than just a need to make fuel for it's reactors.
No threat there.

2) Retaliation IF attacked. No threat there.

3) Retaliation IF attacked. No threat there.

4) Who cares what a politician says while on an election campaign. Especially when addressing a pro Israel crowd that he wants to win over for votes. Of course he is going to threaten Iran.

The only threats from the above links appear to be directed at Iran, not the other way around.

Make no mistake. Iran has been begging us to kick their asses for 30 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khobar_Towers_bombing

In 1991, when we crossed the border into Iraq, we shouldn't have stopped until we reached the borders of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Turkmenistan. At that point, we should have said to the rest of The Mid-East: "Anyone else want some??"

1) Iran hostage crisis. That was your own fault for deposing their Democratically elected president and installing the brutal criminal but pro western, Shah Pahlavi. That was a powder keg just waiting to happen.
Again, no threat there because it was a retaliation against the threat from the US.

2) That wasn't Iran

3) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Perry)William Perry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Perry), who was the United States Secretary of Defense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Defense) in the time that this bombing happened, in an interview in June 2007, said that "he now believes al-Qaida rather than Iran was behind a 1996 truck bombing at an American military base.
That wasn't Iran either however you want speculate about it.

Name ONE country that Iran has invaded or attacked. Just one.

[PostmodernProphet]

Name ONE country that Iran has invaded or attacked. Just one.

I seem to recall some problems with an embassy back when Carter was president......

[jafar00]

I seem to recall some problems with an embassy back when Carter was president......

I'm working just across the road from the Chinese Embassy. If I throw a rock over the wall (I wouldn't. The guards have AK47s!), have I just declared war on China?

The question is not answered.

[CharlesMartel]

Also, you will find if you study the ME, that the one thing that is more important to them than 'freedom and democracy' from their own leadership, is 'freedom' from US.

Uhhh....hold on just a moment, can we insert some reality into this argument? Where, Mia, where exactly do you see "them" seeking this holy grail of "freedom and democracy" even if it's from their own leadership?

Where would be an example of this? Hamas' victory in Palestine proper? Hezbollah's recent gains in the Lebanese Parliament?

Let's please not forget 'their' main bone of contention is a free and democratic Israel...is it not? "Them" is no friend to freedom, Mia, no doctors of Democracy, in fact, enemies of self-determination.

[CharlesMartel]

I'm working just across the road from the Chinese Embassy. If I throw a rock over the wall (I wouldn't. The guards have AK47s!), have I just declared war on China?.

Chinese guards won't ask to see your formal declaration before they cut you down though, will they?

[PostmodernProphet]

I'm working just across the road from the Chinese Embassy. If I throw a rock over the wall (I wouldn't. The guards have AK47s!), have I just declared war on China?

The question is not answered.

so you parallel throwing a rock over the wall with seizing an embassy and holding hostages for a year?......

[tecoyah]

Ok....imagine this:

The United States takes advantage of the incredible ingenuity of its private sector, as well as its Federal Government to become a leader in renewable, and advanced energy production.

Having no further need to procure oil from the larger suppliers, we then back out of the Middle east completely, and use the current war funding for peaceful, society enhancing and home infrastructure needs thereby rebuilding our damaged economy and exporting technology to allow others the freedom to walk away from the Mid East as well.

Having a significantly lower influence on world affairs, the Islamic states begin to feel the pinch of redistributed world wealth, and step up the violence toward each other as a result of resource distribution and water supplies.

The western world is far to busy improving its own little chunk of the Earth to do much more than watch as the Middle East goes about the historical past time of killing each other for Allah...and we reap the benefits of returning to a world economic power.

50 yrs from now we look back at the remnants of what was once the Persian Empire, and wonder why we ever bothered to try to help.

[Mia]

I don't know why you don't believe that people can be brainwashed into doing things. Didn't Obam take off his lapel pin, right after he heard that "God Damn America" speech by his freind, just days after 911 happened?

Is that true?

[Mia]

Uhhh....hold on just a moment, can we insert some reality into this argument? Where, Mia, where exactly do you see "them" seeking this holy grail of "freedom and democracy" even if it's from their own leadership?

Where would be an example of this? Hamas' victory in Palestine proper? Hezbollah's recent gains in the Lebanese Parliament?

Let's please not forget 'their' main bone of contention is a free and democratic Israel...is it not? "Them" is no friend to freedom, Mia, no doctors of Democracy, in fact, enemies of self-determination.

I don't see them seeking freedom and democracy from their leaders as much as freedom from US, that was my statement.

They will put the most brutal dictator in power if he will protect them from outside interference.

Another angle most people don't understand is that in the Islamic religion, our version democracy is not really possible. Since a tenet of the religion is that society reflect its values, that doesn't allow for the different factions to come together and vote. Each one will not be happy unless THEIR version of Islamic values is reflected.

It takes a strong hand to keep all that under control. I'm not saying it's good, it just seems to be the only way right now - it's up to them to evolve past that, not us to try and force it on them, imo.

On the other hand, the President of Iran is calling for MORE democracy in Israel - let all the displaced peoples come back and hold a true election; let the majority decide what kind of state it will be ;-)


Our own effort at democratizing Iran has resulted instead in radicalizing a population whose instincts are to like Americans and our economic system. Our meddling these past 50 years has only served to alienate and unify the entire country against us.

In 1953, the U.S. and British overthrew the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadegh and installed the Shah. His brutal regime lasted over 25 years, and ended with the Ayatollah taking power in 1979. Our support for the Shah incited the radicalization of the Shi'ite Clerics in Iran, resulting in the hostage takeover.

In the 1980s we provided weapons – including poisonous gas – to Saddam Hussein as we supported his invasion of Iran. These events are not forgotten by the Iranians, who see us once again looking for another confrontation with them.

We insist that the UN ignore the guarantees under the NPT that grant countries like Iran the right to enrich uranium. The pressure on the UN and the threats we cast toward Iran are quite harmful to the cause of peace. They are entirely unnecessary and serve no useful purpose. Our policy toward Iran is much more likely to result in her getting a nuclear weapon than prevent it.


http://www.antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=9672

[jafar00]

so you parallel throwing a rock over the wall with seizing an embassy and holding hostages for a year?......

My point is that attacking or seizing an embassy (which the Iranians had good reason to do at the time) is not an invasion of a country.

[PostmodernProphet]

My point is that attacking or seizing an embassy (which the Iranians had good reason to do at the time) is not an invasion of a country.

/shrugs....I think both of your conclusions are wrong......

[preservanation]

I'm working just across the road from the Chinese Embassy. If I throw a rock over the wall (I wouldn't. The guards have AK47s!), have I just declared war on China?

The question is not answered.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7c/Ahmadinejad_alleged.JPG/260px-

The Iran hostage crisis (Persian: تصرف سفارت آمریکا) was a diplomatic crisis between Iran and the United States where 52 U.S. diplomats were held hostage for 444 days from November 4, 1979 to January 20, 1981, after a group of students took over the American embassy in support of Iran's revolution.[2]

In Iran, the incident was seen by many as a blow against U.S. influence in Iran and its support of the recently fallen Shah of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, who had been restored to power by a CIA-funded coup in 1953 and who had recently been allowed into the United States for cancer treatment. In the United States, the hostage-taking was widely seen as an outrage violating a centuries-old principle of international law granting diplomats immunity from arrest and diplomatic compounds sovereignty in the territory of the host country they occupy.
One week after the Shah was admitted (22 Oct. 1979) into the United States, Khomeini urged his supporters to demonstrate against United States and Israeli interests. Khomeini denounced the American government as the "Great Satan" and "Enemy of Islam."

The Carter administration attempted to mitigate the damage by finding a new relationship with the de facto Iranian government and by continuing military cooperation in hopes that the situation would stabilize. On October 22, 1979, however, the U.S. permitted the Shah, who was ill with cancer, to come to the Mayo Clinic for medical treatment.

The American embassy in Tehran had vigorously opposed the request, understanding the political delicacy, but after pressure from influential figures including former United States Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and Council on Foreign Relations chairman David Rockefeller, the Carter administration decided to grant the Shah’s request.[10]


Theocratic Islamists, as well as leftist political groups and figures like radical leftist People's Mujahedin of Iran,[29] supported the taking of American hostages as an attack on "American imperialism" and its alleged Iranian "tools of the West." By embracing the hostage-taking under the slogan "America can't do a thing,"



All of this points to more than tossing a stone over a fence.

[Deadshot]

Jafar, you're wrong on this one. An embassy is considered to be the property of the country it represents. So an French embassy here in the USA, is considered to be on French soil. Now if the USA bugged and spied on that embassy, that could be considered an act of war. Were we to invade it, take prisoners and hold those prisoners hostage for months...that is an act of war.

What's funny about the situation, in hindsight that is, that both Carter and Reagan KNEW not to invade a country in the Middle East 'cause we'd never get out.

[PostmodernProphet]

What's funny about the situation, in hindsight that is, that both Carter and Reagan KNEW not to invade a country in the Middle East 'cause we'd never get out.

I disagree...I think the reason the hostages were released the day Reagan was inaugurated was that the Iranians knew the first thing he was going to do was declare war on them......

[jafar00]

Jafar, you're wrong on this one. An embassy is considered to be the property of the country it represents. So an French embassy here in the USA, is considered to be on French soil. Now if the USA bugged and spied on that embassy, that could be considered an act of war. Were we to invade it, take prisoners and hold those prisoners hostage for months...that is an act of war.

What's funny about the situation, in hindsight that is, that both Carter and Reagan KNEW not to invade a country in the Middle East 'cause we'd never get out.

It still doesn't = Iran invaded another country no matter how you want to twist it. If you look at it that way, US has invaded Iran when it raided their Iraq embassy and took diplomats hostage.

[Wndrtch]

Is that true?

Barack Obama Stops Wearing American Flag Lapel Pin
Thursday, October 04, 2007

Associated Press

WATERLOO, Iowa — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama says he doesn't wear an American flag lapel pin because it has become a substitute for "true patriotism" since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
Asked about it Wednesday in an interview with KCRG-TV in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, the Illinois senator said he stopped wearing the pin shortly after the attacks and instead hoped to show his patriotism by explaining his ideas to citizens.

"The truth is that right after 9/11 I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299439,00.html

My question would be, how soon after Rev wright gave the G-D America speech, did Obama stop wearing the pin? He said that it was around the time the Senate started hearing word about an invasion of Iraq.

If he stopped wearing the pin several months after the G-D-A speech, then I could goive him a pass on this, but if he removed the pin near or around the G-D-A speech, then he's on the hook.