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Alonzo
05-15-2008, 10:11 PM
(WASHINGTON) — The Interior Department declared the polar bear a threatened species Wednesday, saying it must be protected because of the decline in Arctic sea ice from global warming.

Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne cited dramatic declines in sea ice over the last three decades and projections of continued losses. These declines, he told a news conference, mean the polar bear is a species likely to be in danger of extinction in the near future.

Kempthorne also said, though, that it would be "inappropriate" to use the protection of the bear to reduce greenhouse gases, or to broadly address climate change.

Reflecting views recently expressed by President Bush, Kempthorne said the Endangered Species Act was "never meant to regulate global climate change."

He said the decision to list the bear includes administrative actions aimed at limiting the impact of the decision on energy development and other climate related activities.

"This listing will not stop global climate change or prevent any sea ice from melting," said Kempthorne. He said he had consulted with the White House on the decision, but "at no time was there ever a suggestion that this was not my decision."

Kempthorne cited as support for his decision conclusions by the department's scientists that sea ice loss will likely result in two-thirds of the polar bears disappearing by mid-century.

Notwithstanding the secretary's disclaimers, this is the first time the Endangered Species Act has been used to protect a species threatened by the impacts of global warming. There has been concern within the business community that such an action could have far-reaching impact and could be used to regulate carbon dioxide.

Kempthorne proposed 15 months ago to investigate whether the polar bear should be declared threatened under the Endangered Species Act.

That triggered a year of studies into the threats facing the bear and its survival prospects at a time when scientists predict a continuing warming and loss of Arctic sea ice. The Arctic sea ice serves as a primary habitat for the bear and is critical to its survival, scientists say.

"The science is absolutely clear that polar bear needs protection under the Endangered Species Act," said Andrew Wetzler, director of the endangered species program at the Natural Resources Defense Council.

A decision had been expected early this year, but the Interior Department said it needed more time to work out many of the details, prompting criticism from members of Congress and environmentalists. Environmentalists filed a lawsuit aimed at forcing a decision and a federal court on April 29 set a May 15 deadline for a decision.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1779545,00.html

preservanation
05-16-2008, 11:02 AM
So...the polar bear is expected to go the way of the caribou?
So sad.:(

tecoyah
05-16-2008, 11:19 AM
If this is another hyperbole reaction, and attempt to play chicken little about GW I see it as more damaging to the "Cause" than anything. While I accept the basis for climate change, and know full well the realities of increased greenhouse gases I don't much care for the Al Gore syndrome to educate a confused public.

Polar Bears may very well suffer if the arctic melts...but as of right now it seems they are doing okay. It looks to me as if this species is being used to forward an agenda this time.

Alonzo
05-16-2008, 03:28 PM
If this is another hyperbole reaction, and attempt to play chicken little about GW I see it as more damaging to the "Cause" than anything. While I accept the basis for climate change, and know full well the realities of increased greenhouse gases I don't much care for the Al Gore syndrome to educate a confused public.

Polar Bears may very well suffer if the arctic melts...but as of right now it seems they are doing okay. It looks to me as if this species is being used to forward an agenda this time.

Their population count if alright, but the weight of polar bears is down. There're fears that they could collapse quickly in the future if food drops below a critical point.

But why do you oppose preventing such things, and only support trying to fix things one there's already an immediate need?

tecoyah
05-16-2008, 03:34 PM
Their population count if alright, but the weight of polar bears is down. There're fears that they could collapse quickly in the future if food drops below a critical point.

But why do you oppose preventing such things, and only support trying to fix things one there's already an immediate need?


I don't...and in fact I am "the green guy" of Louisville. I was simply pointing out the issues created by overly hyped media, and its detrimental effect on fence sitters.
In my opinion we have passed the so called tipping point where the Ice Caps are concerned, and its likely polar bears will be a cute memory in a hundred years. But if the movement wishes to make them a poster child (and it seems that is becoming the case)...they need to be careful not to alienate those who can help enact change.

micfranklin
05-16-2008, 05:24 PM
Never thought I'd see the day. But I'm sure the Arctic won't melt away entirely because that'd take too long.

Buck Laser
05-16-2008, 05:34 PM
Never thought I'd see the day. But I'm sure the Arctic won't melt away entirely because that'd take too long.
You may begin to WISH that were the case, Mic. The republicans are just whistling past the graveyard on this one.

Drocket
05-16-2008, 07:07 PM
Never thought I'd see the day. But I'm sure the Arctic won't melt away entirely because that'd take too long.

The problem is that as global climate change continues, it accelerates. Ice and snow, being white, reflect sunlight. As snow and ice melt, sunlight that previously was reflected is now absorbed, melting more snow and ice, absorbing MORE heat, and the cycle continues.

tecoyah
05-16-2008, 07:29 PM
The problem is that as global climate change continues, it accelerates. Ice and snow, being white, reflect sunlight. As snow and ice melt, sunlight that previously was reflected is now absorbed, melting more snow and ice, absorbing MORE heat, and the cycle continues.

Thus....a tipping point. The level at which Thaw becomes the norm...rather than freeze. We will know in the next few years if we have crossed this threshold.

Personally, I believe we already have, one merely need look at what we used to call permafrost, and now call swamp.

tecoyah
05-16-2008, 07:37 PM
Never thought I'd see the day. But I'm sure the Arctic won't melt away entirely because that'd take too long.

I'm glad you're sure...'cause I am not.

The Arctic ice cap shrank so much this summer that waves briefly lapped along two long-imagined Arctic shipping routes, the Northwest Passage over Canada and the Northern Sea Route over Russia.

Arctic Study Researchers haul a buoy across the Arctic sea ice in August, led by two Coast Guard crew whose job was to ward off polar bears or rescue anyone who slipped into the sea.

Over all, the floating ice dwindled to an extent unparalleled in a century or more, by several estimates.

Now the six-month dark season has returned to the North Pole. In the deepening chill, new ice is already spreading over vast stretches of the Arctic Ocean. Astonished by the summer’s changes, scientists are studying the forces that exposed one million square miles of open water — six Californias — beyond the average since satellites started measurements in 1979.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/02/science/earth/02arct.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Interesting flash animation of the pole here:

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/arctic_regions/index.html

micfranklin
05-16-2008, 07:58 PM
Is everyone aware that the melting and freezing is cyclic and it's been that way since the Earth formed?

Alonzo
05-16-2008, 10:06 PM
Is everyone aware that the melting and freezing is cyclic and it's been that way since the Earth formed?

But a lot of people seem unaware that outside forces, such as human pollution, can influence that. We're producing large amount of things that effect climate, so why something would effect the climate when a volcano produces it, but not when we do, makes no sense. That's especially true given that what we'd expect that to cause is what is happening.

tecoyah
05-16-2008, 11:18 PM
Is everyone aware that the melting and freezing is cyclic and it's been that way since the Earth formed?

and you know what....everyone dies eventually too.

Yet, premature death by violent means is generally considered a bad thing.

preservanation
05-17-2008, 11:33 AM
I think the Man made GW bunch polls sixth graders to see which ones they consider the cutest and then claims that America is killing off that particular species by driving to work.