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PittsburghAfterDark
09-14-2006, 11:18 AM
I?m an American liberal and proud of it.??There are many tenets of my faith that I believe in and if you don?t, my government will impose them on you legislatively or by court decision.??Think of it as my gift to you, the gift of a better society as I see fit.

This American nation is corrupt and run by a dictator.??Our troops are Nazis and our prisoners of war are housed in Concentration camps.??Our military leadership condones the training of torture of innocent bystanders that they euphemistically call ?terror suspects?.??These suspects have never been Mirandized, never been given access to a court appointed attorney or been given the chance for their case to be heard before the 9th District Court of the United States.??I?m not standing up to protect anyone but you so don?t you dare call me unpatriotic.

Our elections are purchased by corporations, rigged by a voting machine company monopoly and stolen by Conservatives who refuse to allow the dead, felons and illegal aliens vote.??Billions of special interest money spent by my 527?s, political party and countless donations from fellow travelers result in polling data that shows we win.??The votes lie, it?s the polls that matter.??You think the fact that liberal ideas don?t triumph is my fault???It?s the system that?s stacked against the will of the ?people?.??Our system is fixed, yet don?t you dare call me unpatriotic.

Our economy is in shambles.??Forget the price of gasoline has dropped 20% in your backyard in the last two weeks the oil companies want you to vote for Bu$hCo.??Forget the fact that unemployment is now lower than 5 of the 8 years Bill Clinton was in office.??Forget the fact that the DOW Jones Average is 300 points away from a historical high.??Forget the fact that homeownership rates are highest in history.??These are all lies meant to distract you.??We need higher taxes, more government regulation of business, tighter restrictions on ownership of private enterprise and more welfare to help out those whose boats will never rise with the tide. Please, don?t call them lazy, they?re victims of capitalism.??Don?t you dare call me a socialist and don?t you even think about calling me unpatriotic.

Your rights are being violated every day.??The government wishes to tap your phone calls to Aunt Edna.??They want to read your emails sharing recipes with your neighbors.??They want to know why it is you suddenly paid off a credit card in full and what exactly it was you purchased at Wal Mart for $10.48 in the hardware department.??Forget the fact that laptops are key international means of communicating between terrorists.??Forget the fact that disposable cell phones ensure practically unlimited communication between terror cells.??Forget the fact that electronic funds are the main way terror organizations fund and operate their operations.??This is all propaganda put forth by Faux News and Bu$hCo?s new ally at ?The House that Mickey Rat Built?.??Don?t swallow it and don?t you dare say I?m against protecting the American public and don?t you even think about calling me unpatriotic.

I?m against racism.??However don?t you dare question why I support Affirmative Action and quit mentioning it violates the 14th Amendment in word, spirit and deed.??Don?t you know that those welfare dollars we pour into the inner cities ensure a healthy poverty class dependent on our votes???We?ll call you a bigot if you wish to reform the lives of our poverty level voting slaves.??Those poor masses flowing over our southern border are not illegal aliens.??People cannot be illegal.??They?re a potential voting block and for you to demand they not have access to state issued ID, education and healthcare at your expense just shows how racist you truly are and how sensitive I am.??I may be against the mindset of hard work, equal opportunity and law and order but don?t you dare call me unpatriotic.

I favor the right to choose.??I fully support the right of a woman to kill babies that could survive in preemie care because it?s nothing more than an unviable tissue mass.??However, it?s your guns that kill.??It?s your corporations that kill.??It?s America that is the greatest source of evil in the world.??If you?re against choice, you?re against freedoms guaranteed somewhere in the Constitution, where exactly that freedom is, well, I?ll get back to you.??Oh, and don?t even think about reminding me that Social Security would not have the funding issues it does with an additional 30 million contributing Americans. However don?t you dare call me unpatriotic for supporting the decision that has killed 30 millions Americans.

Speaking of which, why do you insist on old people eating dog food???Forget the fact that the plan which our ancestral leader FDR enacted, Social Security, is run in a fashion that would land a bank, mutual fund, investment house or fund raiser behind bars.??It is not a Ponzi Scheme!??It is a promise that we made generations ago to one generation of voter after another that somewhere, someplace, in some secret location is a pile of money all that SSI/FICA money goes with your name on it.??No, it?s not a lie.??Someone, somewhere will have a child (If they?re not aborted.) in 2017 that will gladly fork over his or her money to you anonymously.??You won?t even have to send a thank you card.??Just remember it was I, the American Liberal, which got you your own personal indentured servant and remember to vote for me.?? What???Slavery is illegal???It was made so by a Republican???Shut up, ensuring and encouraging generational servitude does not make me unpatriotic!

CheesyMuslim
09-14-2006, 12:52 PM
Sorry bout that,

1. But that was an excellent post PAD.
2. This is why the Liberals are failing, not unlike AIR America.
3. Most Americans with half a brain get to much information now a days to be suckered into the Liberal Media Spin.
4. And now will turn off the Liberals on the Airwaves, and at the Ballot Box.
5. They will not do well this Nov.
6. Most die hard Liberals have gone insane, thinking that their base is on-board with them.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

ECW
09-14-2006, 01:07 PM
Thanks for reminding me how out of touch most conservatives are.

Rider
09-14-2006, 01:09 PM
Good post, PAD.

piratemonkey
09-14-2006, 02:44 PM
Very informative.

Seeing America throught the eyes of Conservatives is truly a frightening thing.

No wonder y'all are so scared of everything.

Rider
09-14-2006, 03:31 PM
Yah PM, Liberals aren't so scared- ignorance is bliss, LOL

ECW
09-14-2006, 04:47 PM
Scared isn't the right word, pirate. The proper word is paranoid.

BoogyMan
09-14-2006, 05:08 PM
I love it.??The scenario listed above is based on commentary from many well known liberal groups in this country today.??Yet, notice the terse commentary of the liberals who read it on this forum:


Thanks for reminding me how out of touch most conservatives are.


Very informative.

Seeing America throught the eyes of Conservatives is truly a frightening thing.

No wonder y'all are so scared of everything.


Scared isn't the right word, pirate. The proper word is paranoid.

ECW
09-14-2006, 05:24 PM
Exaggeration and then setting up Strawmen is the hallmark of the conservative debate style. The RNC calls it "framing the opponent" and "defining the opposition." I call it paranoid bullshit from a group that is looking at a 33% approval rating and campaigning on a platform of fear.

ECW
09-14-2006, 05:26 PM
I love it.??The scenario listed above is based on commentary from many well known liberal groups in this country today.??

Of course, there is no link to back up your ill-formed opinion.

BoogyMan
09-15-2006, 12:07 AM
I love it.??The scenario listed above is based on commentary from many well known liberal groups in this country today.??

Of course, there is no link to back up your ill-formed opinion.


You need proof that liberals are spouting this kind of foolishness?

Denial doesn't suit you ECW.

Read some of your own postings here from the past.

ECW
09-15-2006, 04:34 AM
Anyone can take an opinion held by an opponent and extrapolate it out to an unfounded conclusion. Only a Republican/conservative/neo-con would try to pass it off as the truth because they cannot deal with the fact that their philosophy has led this country down the Road To Hell. Nice try. No cigar.

Labrocca
09-15-2006, 04:48 AM
Anyone can take an opinion held by an opponent and extrapolate it out to an unfounded conclusion.

You mean like how the liberals and some democrats cry about how Bush lied about WMDs?[hr]This is his first sentence to prove what liberals say.
This American nation is corrupt and run by a dictator.

http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=%22bush+is+a+dictator%22

That's a google search for "bush is a dictator"...

We can do that all day for each sentence but it would be silly because it's widely know how the far-left feels and thinks of Bush.??They call this a "regime" instead of an administration.

BoogyMan
09-15-2006, 05:31 AM
Try this one for a giggle:

http://www.google.com/search?q=bush+stole+election&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

ECW
09-15-2006, 06:13 AM
Like I said, this piece of tripe no more represents American Liberal thought than David Duke represents the Republican party.

CheesyMuslim
09-15-2006, 01:19 PM
Sorry bout that,

1. PAD IS so right on so many levels.
2. Democrats can howl and bemoan what they have become.
3. Even thou they go into denial, fact is, PAD nailed you fellers.
4. That should be published, it was that good.
5. I am suggesting PAD right a book.
6. He has perfect reasoning powers.
7. Google factor killed ECW argument, its true.
8. Man it really sucks to be a Democrat these days.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Mayberry
09-15-2006, 03:33 PM
Excellent post, PAD. Right on the money. Although there are some conservatives nowadays that are right up there......

PittsburghAfterDark
09-15-2006, 03:37 PM
Unfortunately Mayberry on a couple of those points, you are correct.

firefox
09-15-2006, 07:26 PM
I'm a liberal too, but in the original sense. The term was coopted and corrupted by statists, who are really reactionaries that "couldn't handle" the level of liberty in America for some reason. For an interesting podcast on the topic (about 15 min long give or take a couple), see This page (http://www.freemarketnews.com/eRadioLaunch.asp?rid=778).

Mayberry
09-15-2006, 09:12 PM
The term was coopted and corrupted by statists, who are really reactionaries that "couldn't handle" the level of liberty in America for some reason. That is a very interesting point there 'Fox! It puts things in a different perspective, and just has to make you wonder even more what Liberals really have against Liberty. Everything they claim to do in the name of "freedom" really is AGAINST freedom. Removing God from school, the Pledge (which in it's self I think makes their skin crawl), our public lands and buildings, trying to remove our right to bear arms, flooding our country with illegal aliens, taxing us to death to redistribute wealth, encouraging huge overbearing government- ensuring "big brother" infiltrates every aspect of our lives, and dictating what public morality, or lack of, should be. They wish to censor free speech. They encourage regulation of EVERYTHING. They want to dissolve our country and hand over our sovereignty to the UN. Where does liberty and freedom fit in with all that? Nowhere.

firefox
09-17-2006, 08:13 AM
Got shouldn't be in government run school. At the same time, though, we shouldn't be having government run schools in the first place, so this ideally wouldn't even be an issue! I also don't support the Pledge for various reasons, including that it was created by a National Socialist, Francis Bellamy. It was also a marketing scam to sell flags to schools. My final disagreement is that immigrants are an economic benefit to our economy- let's strike the root of the problem and kill those wasteful middle-class social(ist) welfare programs that attract the rif-raf.

That said, I agree with everything else in your post, including that Amendment 2 is very (perhaps most) important. Taxation is theft, and "morality" legislation is BS, whether it be for "decency" or "health" reasons. The UN can kiss my ass, as can the Feds.

BTW, I came to libertarianism from the moderate "left-liberal" side, and you from the "right" I assume?

Mayberry
09-18-2006, 02:33 AM
My final disagreement is that immigrants are an economic benefit to our economy- No argument there, provided they are LEGAL immigrants.let's strike the root of the problem and kill those wasteful middle-class social(ist) welfare programs that attract the rif-raf.
I think most of us are all for that.and you from the "right" I assume? I do have a slight list to starboard:D

firefox
09-18-2006, 03:43 AM
My final disagreement is that immigrants are an economic benefit to our economy- No argument there, provided they are LEGAL


What would your legal requirements be? Ideally, I don't support any restrictions on immigration whatsoever, but I would be OK with a basic health screening and criminal background check of some sort. None of this waiting list and invasive search crap though.

PittsburghAfterDark
09-18-2006, 04:23 AM
I'll give you a great flaw in our immigration strategy that people are in practically 100% agreement on.

There's no question that for many years we got the best and the brightest immigrating or defecting here at great personal risk. When you look at what people like Carnegie, Marconi, Sarnoff, Teller, Einstein, Von Braun and countless others contributed to this country no one can say that we don't benefit immeasurably from immigration.

What drives me insane, as well as many of our high tech companies, is that we educate 10's of thousands of immigrants with a B.S., M.S. PhD's in technological fields, can't get them LEGALLY employed in this country and send them back. Then they can't fill those positions with enough American citizens because more foreign born students are taking high level math and science courses than Americans. That's a direct correlation to what the marketplace needs and flaws in our current immigration policy.

In that sense we're limiting our economic vitality and competitive advantage by archane immigration law. If you have a higher education and a sponsor for employment that's my legal requirement. Of course the health screening and criminal check would be a pre-requisite but we're shooting ourselves in the foot by sending these people back to China, India, Japan and countless other world countries when they want to stay here.

Even if they're not on a path to citizenship the benefit to their American employers/comanies, hence, the rest of us, it is more beneficial to keep them than send them home.

firefox
09-18-2006, 10:45 PM
A big part of this again has to do with government subsidies and economic regulations that drive up the cost of production such that it's hard to hire locals these days!

Churchel
09-20-2006, 10:42 PM
I'll give you a great flaw in our immigration strategy that people are in practically 100% agreement on.

There's no question that for many years we got the best and the brightest immigrating or defecting here at great personal risk.??When you look at what people like Carnegie, Marconi, Sarnoff, Teller, Einstein, Von Braun and countless others contributed to this country no one can say that we don't benefit immeasurably from immigration.

What drives me insane, as well as many of our high tech companies, is that we educate 10's of thousands of immigrants with a B.S., M.S. PhD's in technological fields, can't get them LEGALLY employed in this country and send them back.??Then they can't fill those positions with enough American citizens because more foreign born students are taking high level math and science courses than Americans.??That's a direct correlation to what the marketplace needs and flaws in our current immigration policy.

In that sense we're limiting our economic vitality and competitive advantage by archane immigration law.??If you have a higher education and a sponsor for employment that's my legal requirement.??Of course the health screening and criminal check would be a pre-requisite but we're shooting ourselves in the foot by sending these people back to China, India, Japan and countless other world countries when they want to stay here.

Even if they're not on a path to citizenship the benefit to their American employers/comanies, hence, the rest of us, it is more beneficial to keep them than send them home.


If we look at current technology companies who outsource their development it is smarter buisness sense to send them home and employ them there. That is what is happening.

firefox
09-20-2006, 11:30 PM
Currently, only an extremely small % of companies are doing this. Most of it is actually media hype, belive it or not. Still, the trend is there, and has been for several decades. Cut the regulation and greedy corporate and union interests won't be able to screw the rest of us over as easily.