Bush disappointed in Iraq intelligence

[Alonzo]

WASHINGTON - President Bush said Tuesday he was disappointed in "flawed intelligence" before the Iraq war and was concerned that if a Democrat wins the presidency in November and withdrew troops prematurely it could "eventually lead to another attack on the United States."

In an interview with Politico magazine and Yahoo News, Bush also said he gave up golf in 2003 out of respect for U.S. soldiers killed in the war, which has now lasted more than five years.

"I didn't want some mom whose son may have recently died to see the commander in chief playing golf," he said. "I feel I owe it to the families to be in solidarity as best as I can with them. And I think playing golf during a war just sends the wrong signal."

Bush said he made his decision after the August 2003 bombing of the United Nations headquarters in Baghdad.

A question submitted from the online audience asked Bush whether he felt he had been misled about Iraq as he made the decision to go to war.

"`Misled' is a strong word," he said. "Not only our intelligence community, but intelligence communities all across the world shared the same assessment. And so I was disappointed to see how flawed our intelligence was."

"Do I think somebody lied to me? No, I don't. I think it was just, you know, they analyzed the situation and came up with the wrong conclusion," he added.

He acknowledged concerns about leaving the unfinished Iraq war to a Democratic successor. Both Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton have said they will bring troops home if elected.

Bush said his "doomsday scenario of course is that extremists throughout the Middle East would be emboldened, which would eventually lead to another attack on the United States."

Also in the interview to an online audience, Bush:

- Said more is known about global warming than when he first took office in 2001. Asked if it was real, Bush said, "Yes, it is real, sure is." Still, he defended his opposition to the Kyoto treaty on climate change. "I could have supported a lousy treaty and everybody would have went, `Oh, man, what a wonderful-sounding fellow he is. But it just wouldn't have worked."

- Criticized the Democratic-led Congress, claiming it had dragged its feet on trade, on renewing surveillance powers and failing to respond appropriately to the housing crisis. "And so I would call them stalled. I would call them, so far, good at verbiage and not so good at results."

- Said his Christian faith increased while in office, saying he sought to understand his weaknesses, better himself "and get closer to the Lord."

- Criticized former President Carter for advocating what he called a "blame-Israel-for-every-problem" mentality to the Middle East.

- Said he sympathized with the two candidates in the long-running Democratic primary race. "I feel like this primary has been a long, hard campaign. I remember what it was like in 2000, and I was exhausted. And my primary ended pretty quickly, compared to this one. And so I — both those candidates have got to be just worn out. They haven't had time to get their feet on the ground or rest."

- Said he was not concerned about an ugly conversation about race if Obama wins the Democratic nomination. "I think most Americans are open-minded people, and they're going to pick the president who can keep America safe and keep taxes low. And so I think — my own judgment is, is that race will only enter in if it's provoked by the press."

- Said he would return to using e-mail after he leaves office, saying he gave it up to avoid leaks. He said he looks forward to "e-mailing to my buddies. I can remember as governor I stayed in touch with all kinds of people around the country, firing off e-mails at all times of the day to stay in touch with my pals."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080513/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_iraq

[suedanim]

"Do I think somebody lied to me? No, I don't. I think it was just, you know, they analyzed the situation and came up with the wrong conclusion," he added.


Of course you know they lied to you cause you told them not only to lie to you, but what lies to tell.

He acknowledged concerns about leaving the unfinished Iraq war to a Democratic successor. Both Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton have said they will bring troops home if elected.

Bush said his "doomsday scenario of course is that extremists throughout the Middle East would be emboldened, which would eventually lead to another attack on the United States."

Fearmongering. More fear tactics.

Both candidates have stated they will not begin bringing troops home right away nor bring them all home. In addition, both WILL be tough on terrorists and Obama, unlike Bush, promises to actually do what Bush said he'd do, but got sidetracked in Iraq, go wherever the terrorists, al qaida, ect are... Pakistan and Afghanistan. MAYBE... Democrats will bring Osama bin laden in for trial. HA!

Leave to Democrats to fix the MESS you've made George.

If there is another terror attack on US soil its directly because Bushco has provided ample motivation and probably the weaponry to do it with too.

[Drocket]

You know how many Bush could have shown his disappointment in the intelligence? By not giving a medal to the guy in charge of it.

[jafar00]

Chalabi and Alawi played Bush and he fell for it, hook, line and sinker. Or is that caddy, club and ball?

[apdst]

Leave to Democrats to fix the MESS you've made George.

That's gonna be a joke.

[micfranklin]

Finally me and Bush are on the same page.

[suedanim]

That's gonna be a joke.

I'll tell you what, the joke is on you. George Bush, Dick Cheney and most Republicans could give a hot damn about fighting terrorism. If they did, there'd have been a high profile presence going after bin laden and al qaida. That never happened did it?

You GOPers need to tighten up your neurons so they work cohesively. The war in Iraq is not now and never has been a part of the war on terrorism. Ask George Bush.

George, Dick, Condi, Colin Powell, George Tenet, Steven Hadley, Paul Wolfwicz, Donald Rumsfeld, all the Generals, the whole damn fuckn WORLD
knew this. And the truth is, while our young men and women die, lose their legs, arms, brains, suffer spinal cord injuries, burned horribly and more by the thousands and come back to a world they no longer fit in well and in which many are homeless, poor health care, benefits, psychological care... George Bush has continually FAILED them... and ALL Americans.

Face it... you've been had, bamboozled, tricked, scammed, deceived. Those 16 words in George's 2003 State of the Union were no mistake. He knew damn well the intelligence was faulty and he read the shit anyway. And all the other players kept talking up mushroom clouds, drone planes and wmds....and KNEW it was faulty. They knew Chalabi was faulty, but he provided an excuse to do what they had planned since 1991, but got stopped by Clintons landslide victory.

The picture on this video is only briefly shown in this James Blunt, No Bravery video. It is NOT a gruesome video, but does show the reality of war, sometimes graphic, but nothing you don't already know.

YlDPsxtwUtc&feature=related

[Truth_and_Power]

Chalabi and Alawi played Bush and he fell for it, hook, line and sinker. Or is that caddy, club and ball?

I'm sorry, but the naivete excuse just doesn't wash.

[Wndrtch]

Of course you know they lied to you cause you told them not only to lie to you, but what lies to tell.

Proof?!

Fearmongering. More fear tactics.

Are you in denial?

Thwarted Attacks

Richard Reid, December 2001
A British citizen and self-professed follower of Osama bin Laden, Reid allegedly hid explosives inside his shoes aboard a flight from Paris to Miami and attempted to use a match to light the fuse in his shoe. The explosives were strong enough to cause damage to the plane if detonated. Caught in the act, Reid was apprehended on board the plane by the flight attendants with the assistance of passengers. FBI officials then took Reid into custody after the plane made an emergency landing at Boston's Logan Airport.[2]

Reid was found guilty of charges of terrorism in 2003, and a U.S. federal court sentenced him to life imprisonment.[3]

Jose Padilla, May 2002
U.S. officials arrested Padilla in May 2002 at O'Hare Airport in Chicago as he returned to the United States from Pakistan, initially charging him with being an enemy combatant and planning to use a "dirty bomb" (an explosive laced with radioac*tive material) in an attack against America.[4] Prior to his conviction, Padilla brought a case against the federal government stating that he had been denied the right of habeas corpus (the right of an individual to petition against his or her imprisonment). The U.S. Supreme Court, in a 5–4 decision, found that the case had been filed improperly.[5] In 2005, the government officially indicted Padilla for conspiring with Islamic terrorist groups.[6]

In August 2007, Padilla was found guilty by a civilian jury after a three-month trial and a day and a half of deliberations.

Lackawanna Six, September 2002
When the FBI arrested Sahim Alwan, Yahya Goba, Yasein Taher, Faysal Galab, Shafal Mosed, and Mukhtar al-Bakri, the press dubbed them the "Lackawanna Six" (also the "Buffalo Six" or "Buf*falo Cell"). Five of the six had been born and raised in Lackawanna, New York.[7] The six Amer*ican citizens of Yemeni descent were arrested for conspiring with terrorist groups. They had stated that they were going to Pakistan to attend a reli*gious training camp but instead attended an al-Qaeda "jihadist" camp.

All six pled guilty in 2003 to providing support to al-Qaeda. Faysal Galab received a seven-year sen*tence. Sahim Alwan got seven and a half years, while Yesein Taher and Shafal Mosed both received eight-year prison sentences. Mukhtar al-Bakri, the first to plead guilty, received a 10-year sentence, as did Yahya Goba.[8]

Iyman Faris, May 2003
A naturalized U.S. citizen originally from Kash*mir and living in Columbus, Ohio, Iyman Faris was arrested for conspiring to commit a terrorist act. He was suspected of planning to use blowtorches to collapse the Brooklyn Bridge.[9] The New York City Police Department had learned about the plot and increased police surveillance around the bridge. Faced with this additional security, Faris and his superiors decided to cancel the attack.[10]

Faris pled guilty to conspiracy and providing material support to al-Qaeda. During his sentencing trial, he stated that he was innocent and had admit*ted a role in the plot to FBI agents only in order to trick the agents and secure a book deal. Faris was sentenced in Federal District Court to 20 years, the maximum allowed under his plea agreement.[11]

Virginia "Jihad" Network, June 2003
In Alexandria, Virginia, 11 men were arrested for weapons counts and for violating the Neutrality Act, which prohibits U.S. citizens and residents from attacking countries with which the United States is at peace. Of these 11 men, four pled guilty. Upon further investigation, the other seven members of the group were indicted on additional charges of conspiring to support terrorist organizations. They were found to have connections with al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and Lashkar-i-Taiba, a terrorist organization that targets the Indian government.[12] The authori*ties stated that the Virginia men had used paintball games as a form of training and preparation for bat*tle.[13] The group had also acquired surveillance and night vision equipment and wireless video cameras.[14]

The spiritual leader of the group, Ali al-Timimi, was found guilty of soliciting individuals to assault the United States and was sentenced to life in prison. Ali Asad Chandia received 15 years for sup*porting Lashkar-i-Taiba but maintains his inno*cence.[15] Randoll Todd Royer, Ibrahim al-Hamdi, Yong Ki Kwon, Khwaja Mahmoud Hasan, Muhammed Aatique, and Donald T. Surratt all pled guilty and were sentenced to prison terms.[16] Masoud Khan, Seifullah Chapman, and Hammad Adur-Raheem were found guilty at trial.[17]

Dhiren Barot, August 2004
A terrorist cell under the leadership of Dhiren Barot was arrested for plotting to attack the New York Stock Exchange and other financial institu*tions in New York, Washington, and Newark, New Jersey, and later accused of planning attacks in England. The plots included a "memorable black day of terror" with the employment of a "dirty bomb."[18] A July 2004 police raid on Barot's house in Pakistan discovered a number of incriminating documents in files on a laptop computer that included instructions for building car bombs.[19]

Dhiren Barot pled guilty and was convicted in the United Kingdom for conspiracy to commit mass murder and sentenced to 40 years.[20]


Both candidates have stated they will not begin bringing troops home right away nor bring them all home. In addition, both WILL be tough on terrorists and Obama, unlike Bush, promises to actually do what Bush said he'd do, but got sidetracked in Iraq, go wherever the terrorists, al qaida, ect are... Pakistan and Afghanistan. MAYBE... Democrats will bring Osama bin laden in for trial. HA!

...France, England, Spain, Russia, Singapore, Japan, Sudan, Mogedeshu, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Italy,...

Sue, there are terorist cells in every country on Earth. Good Luck!

Leave to Democrats to fix the MESS you've made George.

Perhaps if the President in charge during the 1993 WTC bombing had actually interogated Yousef Ramsis, we may have found out that his uncle was planning 911, and we could have done something to prevent it. But instead, he was playing "hide Mr. Winkie".

Perhaps if the President in charge had taken custody of Bin Laden, any one of the three time he was offered, we could have interrogated him, and maybe have a chance to head-off 911. But instead, he was selling missle secrets to the Chi-Coms for "campaign donations".

So, who's mess is this agains?

If there is another terror attack on US soil its directly because Bushco has provided ample motivation and probably the weaponry to do it with too.

What do these events have in common:

1993 World Trade Center bombing
Kobar Towers bombing
USS Cole bombing

All of them happened BEFORE George Bush. These terrorist had motivation, prior to George's arrival, and they will have it long after his departure.

[Elrathin]

These terrorist had motivation, prior to George's arrival, and they will have it long after his departure.

The difference of course is before invading Iraq, we had a handful of Al-Q and Al-Q supporters, now because we have CREATED more terrorists we have even MORE going after the U.S.

Nice one GWB, he not only emboldened the enemy, but is the perfect recruiting tool to increase its rank.

[apdst]

I'll tell you what, the joke is on you. George Bush, Dick Cheney and most Republicans could give a hot damn about fighting terrorism.

And the Libs are going to do what? Which Libs are going to fight the terrorists? ANSWER? Code Pink? The Lawyer's Guild?

[Wndrtch]

The difference of course is before invading Iraq, we had a handful of Al-Q and Al-Q supporters, now because we have CREATED more terrorists we have even MORE going after the U.S.

What about these guys?


Abu Sayyaf (1991-present; Islamist separatists; the Philippines)[2]
Based in the southern islands of Jolo, Basilan, and Mindanao.
Branched off of the Moro National Liberation Front.
Aden-Abyan Islamic Army (Yemen)[2]
Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Late 1970s-present; Islamists; Egypt)[2]
Seeks to establish Islamist state in Egypt. Usually targets secular establishments, government buildings, police, the military, minorities, tourists, and “morally offensive” buildings.
Armed Islamic Group (1992-present; Islamists; Algeria)[2]
Seeks to establish Islamist state in Algeria. Began operations in 1992 after the Algerian military cancelled elections which has been won by Islamist political parties.
Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades[2]
Ansar al-Islam (December 2001-present; Islamists; Iraq)[2]
In Arabic, "Supporters of Islam."
Also known as "Partisans of Islam or Helpers of Islam."
Al-Qaeda (1988-present; Islamists; Afghanistan, Pakistan, and worldwide)[2]
In Arabic, "the foundation", "the base", or "the database" kept by intelligence services of anti-Soviet Afghani fighters.
Also known as Qa‘idat al-Jihad, Islamic Army for the Liberation of the Holy Places, World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders, Islamic Salvation Foundation, and the Osama bin Laden Network.
Related: Alneda (former web site), As-Sahab (affiliated public relations organization),
Cells: Buffalo six, Hamburg cell,
Asbat al-Ansar (early 1990s-present; Lebanese Sunni Islamists; southern Lebanon)[2]
In Arabic, "the League of the Followers."
Acronym for "Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya," or Islamic Resistance Movement.
Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad/Al-Qaeda in Iraq - Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Sunni network, operating in Iraq
on U.S. State Department list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations
Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement - al-Qaeda linked separatist group in China's Xinjiang Autonomous Region aiming to establish an Islamic state. Banned by China, along with related groups East Turkestan Liberation Organization, World Uighur Youth Congress and East Turkistan Information Center[3]
Egyptian Islamic Jihad - Egypt (active since the late 1970s)[2]
Fatah al-Islam - Lebanon[4] (al-Qaeda inspired group which briefly took over Nahr el-Bared refugee camp in 2007, before being defeated by the Lebanese Armed Forces)
Hamas - West Bank, Gaza Strip. Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the European Union, Israel, and the United States[2]
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) - Pakistan and Kashmir[2]
Hezbollah - Lebanon; Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Israel, and the United States[2]
Hizbul Mujahideen - Pakistan and Kashmir[2]
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan - Uzbekistan[2]
Jemaah Islamiyah - Southeast Asia[2]
Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Pakistan[2]
Lashkar-e-Toiba - Pakistan[2]
Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group - Morocco and Spain[2]
Palestinian Islamic Jihad - Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip[2]
People Against Gangsterism and Drugs - South Africa[2]
RSM or Rajah Solaiman Movement - Philippines[2]
Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan - Pakistan[2]
Takfir wal-Hijra - Egypt/Sudan/Algeria[2]
Taliban - Afghanistan[2]
Turkish Hezbollah - Kurdish organization operating in Turkey[2]
Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades[2] - Israel
Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP)[2] - Israel (1969-)
Hamas - Israel/Palestine (1987-)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)[2] - Israel/Palestine (1967-)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC)[2] - Israel/Palestine
Palestinian Islamic Jihad Movement[2] - Israel/Palestine
Palestine Liberation Front[2] - Israel/Palestine
Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) - Israel/Palestine (1964-present)[10][2]

[Elrathin]

What about these guys?

I don't recall any of those besides Al-Q attacking the U.S. do you?

[apdst]

I don't recall any of those besides Al-Q attacking the U.S. do you?

AQ isn't the Alpha and Omega of the threat.

Hamas and Hezbollah have killed Americans, as well.

[Elrathin]

AQ isn't the Alpha and Omega of the threat.

Hamas and Hezbollah have killed Americans, as well.

And so has Israel. Or have you forgotten the USS Liberty? Oh yeah, many on the right have because Israel is GOD'S country.

[suedanim]

wndrtch... your post is full of holes and you like most good sycophants have attempted to connect 9/11 to Iraq, which makes your post irrelevant.

Dismissed.

Until you get it, you're just blowing smoke.



WASHINGTON - President Bush said Tuesday he was disappointed in "flawed intelligence" before the Iraq war and was concerned that if a Democrat wins the presidency in November and withdrew troops prematurely it could "eventually lead to another attack on the United States."


And so is George. Once again, he ties terrorism to Iraq. And if he's taken the warnings seriously, taken the Aug. 6, 2001 PDB seriously and placed the AF and other military on alert status, the horror of 9/11 may not have happened

This is pure fearmongering. Thats it. Thats all.

What is he really suggesting? That with McCain as CIC ... the warring in Iraq will continue.. widening to Iran? That McCain can prevent another 9/11 or that the GOP makes the world safer? How ridiculous.

Little has changed since 2004, when this critique was done, has it? But, your solution, after 4 more years of failure, blowing up children, raping women, torturing people, is to sign up for more?

How dumb is that?
September 2004
A Secure America (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Bush+war+on+terror+failure&btnG=Search)
in a Secure World (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Bush+war+on+terror+failure&btnG=Search)

Primary Author: John Gershman
with FPIF Task Force on Terrorism






Foreign Policy In Focuswww.fpif.org (http://www.fpif.org/)

I. Executive Summary

The Bush administration’s “war on terrorism” reflects a major failure of leadership and makes Americans more vulnerable rather than more secure. The administration has chosen a path to combat terrorism that has weakened multilateral institutions and squandered international goodwill. Not only has Bush failed to support effective reconstruction in Afghanistan, but his war and occupation in Iraq have made the United States more vulnerable and have opened a new front and a recruiting tool for terrorists while diverting resources from essential homeland security efforts. In short, Washington’s approach to homeland security fails to address key vulnerabilities, undermines civil liberties, and misallocates resources.

The administration has taken some successful steps to counter terrorism, such as improved airline and border security, a partial crackdown on terrorist financing, improved international cooperation in sharing intelligence, the arrest of several high-level al-Qaida figures, and the disruption of a number of planned attacks. But these successes are overwhelmed by policy choices that have made U.S. citizens more rather than less vulnerable. The Bush White House has undermined the very values it claims to be defending at home and abroad—democracy and human rights; both Washington’s credibility and its efforts to combat terrorism are hampered when it aids repressive regimes. Furthermore, the administration has weakened the international legal framework essential to creating a global effort to counter terrorism, and it has failed to address the political contexts—failed states and repressive regimes—that enable and facilitate terrorism.

Six factors explain the failure of the Bush administration’s approach:

A. Overemphasis on Military Responses: The Bush administration has used everyone’s legitimate concerns about terrorism to justify a massive increase in military spending that has little or nothing to do with combating terrorism. According to the Center for Defense Information, only about one-third of the increase in the FY2003 Pentagon budget over pre-Sept. 11 budgets funds programs and activities closely related to homeland security or counterterrorism operations. In addition, by enshrining preventive war in the national security strategy both as a general policy doctrine and for countering terrorism in particular, the administration has further reduced everyone’s security.

B. Failure in Intelligence Sharing: The White House has failed to develop better mechanisms to share critical information both among intelligence agencies and between federal and local agencies. The recently created Terrorist Threat Intelligence Center is unaccountable to Congress and fails to place the coordination of intelligence gathering in the hands of those who must act on the findings.

C. Undermining Democracy and Civil Liberties: The Bush administration has undermined democracy at home through increased government secrecy. On the civil liberties front, the USA PATRIOT Act imposes guilt by association on immigrants, expands the government’s authority to conduct criminal searches and wiretaps, and undermines fundamental freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights—none of which have proved necessary or effective in tracking down terrorists.

D. Undermining Homeland Security: Bush’s approach to homeland security has two key flaws. First, his administration has been far too laissez-faire in its approach to ensuring the security of the 85 percent of the nation’s critical infrastructure owned or controlled by the private sector. Second, it has failed to meet the basic needs of emergency responders, has underfunded key national agencies like the Coast Guard and the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection, and has created new unfunded mandates for local governments, forcing them to transfer scarce funds from social services and public safety to homeland security tasks.

E. Weakening International Institutions: The Bush administration has been hostile to a whole set of multilateral institutions that are central to enhancing international law and security, from the International Criminal Court to nearly all multilateral arms control and disarmament efforts, including the Biological and Chemical Weapons Conventions, the ABM Treaty, and the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty.

F. Failure to Attack Root Causes: The Bush White House has failed to address the root causes of international terrorism and the social and political contexts in which such terrorism thrives, including repressive regimes, failed states, and the way in which poverty and inequality can create conditions of support for terrorist acts. Addressing the basic causes and conditions that facilitate terrorism in no way implies appeasement. Rather, it reflects both a pragmatic commitment to diffuse terrorism’s political roots and a normative commitment to respect the values the United States preaches. Yet, heedless to the time bomb of widening global wealth disparity, the Bush administration has taken advantage of the crisis surrounding the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks to justify its pursuit of an expanded trade and investment liberalization agenda. This agenda fails to address the central challenges of reducing poverty and inequality and of promoting sustainable growth in developing countries.

[apdst]

And so has Israel. Or have you forgotten the USS Liberty?

That was an accident. In the real world it was. I know things are alot different in Liberal Land.

[Elrathin]

That was an accident. In the real world it was. I know things are alot different in Liberal Land.

Oh yeah an accident, like I said many on the right EXCUSE Israel killing U.S.military. That's sad.

The USS Liberty incident was no "accident". But your response is not surprising to me.

[Wndrtch]

I don't recall any of those besides Al-Q attacking the U.S. do you?

Why does that matter?

Funny, I thought Libs pride themselves on caring about others, regardless of their origins or nationalities.

Can you guarantee that those groups will never attack the US? Could you have honestly given me that garuntee, prior to 911?

The 1983 Beirut barracks bombing was a major incident on October 23, 1983, during the Lebanese Civil War. Two truck bombs struck separate buildings in Beirut housing U.S. and French members of the Multinational Force in Lebanon, killing hundreds of servicemen, the majority being U.S. Marines. The blasts led to the withdrawal of the international peacekeeping force from Lebanon, where they had been stationed since the Israeli 1982 invasion of Lebanon. "Islamic Jihad" took responsibility for the bombing, but that organization is thought to have been a nom de guerre for Hezbollah receiving help from the Islamic Republic of Iran.[1]

[Elrathin]

Why does that matter?

Funny, I thought Libs pride themselves on caring about others, regardless of their origins or nationalities.

Can you guarantee that those groups will never attack the US? Could you have honestly given me that garuntee, prior to 911?

Can you show me how we are going after any of those terrorist groups besides Al-Q? Since you care where are we operating outside of Iraq and Afghanistan to do anything about the other terrorist groups.

BTW I can't guarantee China won't attack the U.S. either, should we pre-empt attack them too?

[Wndrtch]

Can you show me how we are going after any of those terrorist groups besides Al-Q? Since you care where are we operating outside of Iraq and Afghanistan to do anything about the other terrorist groups.

We call it "The Global War on Terror". We are fighting it by creating two central points or "magnets" (Iraq & Afghanistan), drawing them in to be killed by Coalition Forces, kind'a like shooting fish in a barrel.

BTW I can't guarantee China won't attack the U.S. either, should we pre-empt attack them too?

Accept that, terrorist DID attack us. But why let that get in the way.

So, an Elrathin Administration would ignor Global terrorism, and hope for the best. It would follow in the footsteps of great men like Neville Chmberain, and allow death and destruction to run free throughout the World, and continue the 50 year startegy of doing nothing about barbarism.

[Elrathin]

We call it "The Global War on Terror". We are fighting it by creating two central points or "magnets" (Iraq & Afghanistan), drawing them in to be killed by Coalition Forces, kind'a like shooting fish in a barrel.

No, it needs to be called what it is. The Iraq and Afghanistan war. Because there are terrorists we simply do NOT care about to do anything about. That is why the GWOT is a JOKE and you know it. There are terrorists that have operated for DECADES we do nothing about.



Accept that, terrorist DID attack us. But why let that get in the way.

Al-Q attacked us.


So, an Elrathin Administration would ignor Global terrorism, and hope for the best. It would follow in the footsteps of great men like Neville Chmberain, and allow death and destruction to run free throughout the World, and continue the 50 year startegy of doing nothing about barbarism.

I wouldn't take the fight to someone's back yard that had NOTHING to do with it like we did with Iraq. The rest of your comments are a joke.

[Wndrtch]

No, it needs to be called what it is. The Iraq and Afghanistan war. Because there are terrorists we simply do NOT care about to do anything about. That is why the GWOT is a JOKE and you know it. There are terrorists that have operated for DECADES we do nothing about.

Sorry to dissapoint, but that was sort of what I was getting at. For over 50 years, no one has done a thing about terrorism, UN, Europe, Muslims, no one. Bush is the ONLY World leader to do anything about global terror. He dragged the World community, kicking and screaming, to the table and forced them to engage the problem finally. Clinton had an opportunity to do something, but was more interested in "Mr Winkies" evening activities to act. Carter too had an opportunity to do something, but he was an pacafist/appeaser.

Even Reagan missed an opportunity to act significantly. He bought a little time when he went after Khadafi, but didn't establish anything longterm to deal with the overall problem of Global Terrorism.

Al-Q attacked us.



I wouldn't take the fight to someone's back yard that had NOTHING to do with it like we did with Iraq.

France never attacked us, yet we invaded them in WWII to get to Germany. For that matter, Germany never attacked us either. It was Japan, if I recall correctly.

If the Muslim World didn't want American squating on their turf, they should have dealt with the extreme elements in their communities, many years ago. Instead, they took the Neville Chamberlain rout, and did nothing to contain or stop the madness, and it spread throughout the World like a cancer.

The rest of your comments are a joke.

It must be nice to love in Utopia, where everything goes the way you want, and there are no bad guys, except Republicans.

Too bad the rest of us have to live in reality.

[Tessy]

Foreign Policy In Focuswww.fpif.org (http://www.fpif.org/)

I. Executive Summary

The Bush administration’s “war on terrorism” reflects a major failure of leadership and makes Americans more vulnerable rather than more secure. The administration has chosen a path to combat terrorism that has weakened multilateral institutions and squandered international goodwill. Not only has Bush failed to support effective reconstruction in Afghanistan, but his war and occupation in Iraq have made the United States more vulnerable and have opened a new front and a recruiting tool for terrorists while diverting resources from essential homeland security efforts. In short, Washington’s approach to homeland security fails to address key vulnerabilities, undermines civil liberties, and misallocates resources.

The administration has taken some successful steps to counter terrorism, such as improved airline and border security, a partial crackdown on terrorist financing, improved international cooperation in sharing intelligence, the arrest of several high-level al-Qaida figures, and the disruption of a number of planned attacks. But these successes are overwhelmed by policy choices that have made U.S. citizens more rather than less vulnerable. The Bush White House has undermined the very values it claims to be defending at home and abroad—democracy and human rights; both Washington’s credibility and its efforts to combat terrorism are hampered when it aids repressive regimes. Furthermore, the administration has weakened the international legal framework essential to creating a global effort to counter terrorism, and it has failed to address the political contexts—failed states and repressive regimes—that enable and facilitate terrorism.

Six factors explain the failure of the Bush administration’s approach:

A. Overemphasis on Military Responses: The Bush administration has used everyone’s legitimate concerns about terrorism to justify a massive increase in military spending that has little or nothing to do with combating terrorism. According to the Center for Defense Information, only about one-third of the increase in the FY2003 Pentagon budget over pre-Sept. 11 budgets funds programs and activities closely related to homeland security or counterterrorism operations. In addition, by enshrining preventive war in the national security strategy both as a general policy doctrine and for countering terrorism in particular, the administration has further reduced everyone’s security.

B. Failure in Intelligence Sharing: The White House has failed to develop better mechanisms to share critical information both among intelligence agencies and between federal and local agencies. The recently created Terrorist Threat Intelligence Center is unaccountable to Congress and fails to place the coordination of intelligence gathering in the hands of those who must act on the findings.

C. Undermining Democracy and Civil Liberties: The Bush administration has undermined democracy at home through increased government secrecy. On the civil liberties front, the USA PATRIOT Act imposes guilt by association on immigrants, expands the government’s authority to conduct criminal searches and wiretaps, and undermines fundamental freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights—none of which have proved necessary or effective in tracking down terrorists.

D. Undermining Homeland Security: Bush’s approach to homeland security has two key flaws. First, his administration has been far too laissez-faire in its approach to ensuring the security of the 85 percent of the nation’s critical infrastructure owned or controlled by the private sector. Second, it has failed to meet the basic needs of emergency responders, has underfunded key national agencies like the Coast Guard and the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection, and has created new unfunded mandates for local governments, forcing them to transfer scarce funds from social services and public safety to homeland security tasks.

E. Weakening International Institutions: The Bush administration has been hostile to a whole set of multilateral institutions that are central to enhancing international law and security, from the International Criminal Court to nearly all multilateral arms control and disarmament efforts, including the Biological and Chemical Weapons Conventions, the ABM Treaty, and the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty.

F. Failure to Attack Root Causes: The Bush White House has failed to address the root causes of international terrorism and the social and political contexts in which such terrorism thrives, including repressive regimes, failed states, and the way in which poverty and inequality can create conditions of support for terrorist acts. Addressing the basic causes and conditions that facilitate terrorism in no way implies appeasement. Rather, it reflects both a pragmatic commitment to diffuse terrorism’s political roots and a normative commitment to respect the values the United States preaches. Yet, heedless to the time bomb of widening global wealth disparity, the Bush administration has taken advantage of the crisis surrounding the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks to justify its pursuit of an expanded trade and investment liberalization agenda. This agenda fails to address the central challenges of reducing poverty and inequality and of promoting sustainable growth in developing countries.

Whoever wrote this is a nincompoop! I assume this is some "official" US
Government document? It uses the word "democracy" what, 4 times? As if
it's a good thing worthy of promoting and defending... Even the "real" US
federal government (when there was one) doesn't agree with that position!

Here's an official US federal document from before we were taken over by
communist nazi dirt-bags: http://anotheruntoldstory.com/Official%20Definition.pdf
defining "democracy" as it should be - as it truly is.

Although I do agree that the Bush administration is a failure to any "real"
American way of thinking it's right on target for the communists that have
been in power for so long now.

But the whole idea of "fighting terrorism" has become a rather obvious
farce to anyone paying attention. LOL! In the UK they are using anti-terror
laws to enforce back woods recreational poaching and similar absurdities
are taking place in the Untied States of Nazism... err, I mean America...
They're setting up speed traps all across the country (previously illegal)
under anti-terror laws and so many other stupid things. This is no longer
funny. Terrorism as the US Government defines it does NOT exist. Peroid!
And I call anyone falling for their rhetoric a total and complete fool!

[Elrathin]

Bush is the ONLY World leader to do anything about global terror.

Really? What terrorist groups are we going after besides Al-Q and the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Oh yeah NOONE. Bush hasn't done a damn thing about the GLOBAL TERRORISM threat either. He has only chosen to go after one SMALL PART.

That isn't GLOBAL.

[apdst]

What terrorist groups are we going after besides Al-Q and the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan?

We should go after them all, at once? I agree, but didn't think you felt that way.

[Elrathin]

We should go after them all, at once? I agree, but didn't think you felt that way.

You said he is acting GLOBALLY, I have yet to see that. Noone is buying that global BS. Bottom line he is only going after AL-Q (which Osama is leader of, but we aren't going after him), the Taliban remnants that were hiding Osama Bin Ladin and the mess in Iraq that he created.

That isn't GLOBALLY given all the terrorist networks out there no matter how you try and spin it.

[apdst]

You said he is acting GLOBALLY, I have yet to see that.

I didn't. Wndrth did.

Waht about those US troops in The Horn of Africa? Who are they killing?

[apdst]

the mess in Iraq that he created.

We fixed a mess in Iraq.

[Elrathin]

We fixed a mess in Iraq.

Really? It's fixed? Well bring the troops home then if it is fixed. Oh yeah.....IT'S NOT FIXED.

[apdst]

Oh yeah.....IT'S NOT FIXED....yet.

[Elrathin]

...yet.

YET, that is conservative speak for let's spend insane money there for the next 150 years.

[lily]

...yet.

No, but it will be in 2009!

[Phyxius]

That was an accident. In the real world it was. I know things are alot different in Liberal Land.

Oh, REALLY?



"...the board of inquiry (concluded) that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty."- Former CIA Director Richard Helms
"I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. . . . Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous "- Former US Secretary of State Dean RuskSounds like someone in Reich-winger land jumped the shark again... http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/Loser.gif

[Phyxius]

We fixed a mess in Iraq.

Bagdhad Bob lives again!!!!! :madlaugh:

[Tessy]

Really? It's fixed? Well bring the troops home then if it is fixed. Oh yeah.....
IT'S NOT FIXED.

Yeah really. We created the mess. All aspects of it. The Saddam mess and the
mess that's there now. I don't know how terrorizing an entire nation, steeling
their infrastructure, selling it to US/UK private contractors, and shooting anyone
who stands up against the invaders (us!) can be considered "fixing a mess" but
whatever you want to believe in your little fantasy world I guess. I guess if Fox
says it then it just must be true huh? LOL, fools are in such abundance in the
western world.


We should go after them all, at once? I agree, but didn't think you felt that way.

That includes your own family members and your neighbors you know?!!

[Tessy]

YET, that is conservative speak for let's spend insane money there for the next 150 years.

Actually it wouldn't be so bad if it were just that. We may indeed be trying to
convince ourselves that's all it is. In actuality however it includes taking out
Iran. And that implies allot more than "spending money". What are we doing
there now anyway? Isn't one of our biggest effort expenditures going towards
"training troops" - I mean other than "securing" (LOL) and selling off their
infrastructure to our buddies?

[apdst]

No, but it will be in 2009!

Yeah, we'll see.

[Wndrtch]

I mean other than "securing" (LOL) and selling off their infrastructure to our buddies?

So, Americans making money is bad?

[jafar00]

So, Americans making money is bad?

Nobody should be allowed to use banditry to make money. There are laws against that you know.

[Wndrtch]

Nobody should be allowed to use banditry to make money. There are laws against that you know.

How is it banditry? The UN authorized the action. Building the Nation back after we leveled the place is part of the process. Would you have prefered we left the place in shambles?

[Tessy]

Yes, Americans making money by invading other nations is bad. Are you seriously
suggesting that it's not? Where the heck were your parents when you were little?

And who the hell is the UN? It has nothing to do with the USA. If the UN tells us
it's OK to invade, kill everyone, and take over the place that doesn't make it right.
The UN is a child of the CFR in case you didn't know. It's a body devoted to a bad
sort of fabianistic communism and is (or should be) viewed by any true US patriot
as an enemy of freedom and free men everywhere. The documents and agreements
that our federal government has signed tying us up with those nazi bastards need
to be torn up and burned and we need to kick those bums out of our country ASAP!
Let them go camp in the Queen's island where they're ideals are shared by the
monarchial ruling classes.

Have Americans really forgotten what America stands for, how it got here and what
it's based on? Wndrtch certainly has!

[Wndrtch]

Yes, Americans making money by invading other nations is bad. Are you seriously suggesting that it's not? Where the heck were your parents when you were little?

Ok, so President Tessy would level a country, and then leave them hi and dry to repaire the damage.

Nice!

And you say we Republicans are heartless.


And who the hell is the UN? It has nothing to do with the USA. If the UN tells us
it's OK to invade, kill everyone, and take over the place that doesn't make it right.
The UN is a child of the CFR in case you didn't know. It's a body devoted to a bad
sort of fabianistic communism and is (or should be) viewed by any true US patriot
as an enemy of freedom and free men everywhere. The documents and agreements
that our federal government has signed tying us up with those nazi bastards need
to be torn up and burned and we need to kick those bums out of our country ASAP!
Let them go camp in the Queen's island where they're ideals are shared by the
monarchial ruling classes.

I do agree with you that the UN is a huge waste of time, but it IS the only World body to recognise and establish the sovereignty of Nations.

Have Americans really forgotten what America stands for, how it got here and what it's based on? Wndrtch certainly has!

It stands for the freedom to live as you want...

It stands for the freedom to worship as you want...

It stands for the freedom to speak your mind....

It stands for the freedom to conduct business with whom you want...

We got it by spilling blood for it, and we have maintained it with even more blood. Now we shed it for others to have.

[potter]

It stands for the freedom to live as you want...

It stands for the freedom to worship as you want...

It stands for the freedom to speak your mind....

It stands for the freedom to conduct business with whom you want...

We got it by spilling blood for it, and we have maintained it with even more blood. Now we shed it for others to have.


Let's not forget honor and integrity......:bye:

[jafar00]

How is it banditry? The UN authorized the action.

Oh really?

The United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told the BBC the US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661134.stm)

[Wndrtch]

Oh really?

The United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told the BBC the US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661134.stm)

So aren't taking bribes.

[Tessy]

Ok, so President Tessy would level a country, and then leave them hi and
dry to repaire the damage.

Nice!


No, I would never have invaded in the 1st place! Ever! Now that we have I
would leave immediately and pay for the damages - to individuals one at a
time - for the property damage, injuries, and deaths, and I would offer an
apology to the american people and the world. I would additionally admit
that "terrorism" as a whole is a made up farce and launch a real investigation
into 9/11. I would abolish the federal reserve bank and kick out the world
bankers! I would hang most of the CFR members for anti-americanism,
causing wars around the world, funding Hitler/nazism, and attempting to
overthrow the United States via their sneaky little shadow government.
And that would just be my 1st 3 days... :D (EDIT: Oh, and on the 4th day
I would start off the morning with a firing squad for both Mr. and Ms.
Clinton for selling our top secret weapons technology to communist
China!)

I know, I know... dream-on...



I do agree with you that the UN is a huge waste of time, but it IS the only
World body to recognise and establish the sovereignty of Nations.

Weee, you must be the king of logic. No outside body can establish the
sovereignty of another nation without forfeiting the sovereignty of that
nation. Think about it. And that's just what the UN is all about! It's primary
goal as stated in it's own charter is to bring all sovereign nation states
under it's control and thereby take their sovereignty from them.

The UN is the child of the CFR and they are strong fabianism communists
with strong ties to the same nazism that brought us Hitler and the those
camps there. Even the slightest bit of ernest research will reveal that.
Just don't expect them to come right out and say it - if you know what I
mean... :p


It stands for the freedom to live as you want...

It stands for the freedom to worship as you want...

It stands for the freedom to speak your mind....

It stands for the freedom to conduct business with whom you want...

We got it by spilling blood for it, and we have maintained it with even more
blood. Now we shed it for others to have.

We have NOT maintained it and we're about to lose it! We HAVE already lost
so much of it it's scary! People probably not unlike yourself go on thinking in
a confused state, that they still have it though - it's weird to watch as a man
of my age! Also it's 100% impossible to "shed it for others to have". There's
no way that will ever work - it didn't work for Rome nor the Germans and it
aint working for us! We aren't really even trying that anyway. We are only
spreading our own EMPIRE by force all around the world. Willson was an
unwitting unconscionable twit! He even admitted as much at the end of his
presidency - and apologized for it.

But dag-gum-it these CFR nazi bastards will have their one-world-government
and call it "democracy" redefining the term in the process and they WILL finish
the job little Adolph started - and if you don't like it you can be among the first
to test out out 800 new FEMA camps. (EDIT: Oh, and if you do like it you can
either give your life abroad as a soldier setting it up for them or join the 4th
and 5th wave of camp occupants cuz either way, YOU'RE GOING!)

But it's all good right? We're "spilling our blood" to bring "democracy" to the
world? Like that's a good thing? Again you have no idea what this country is
about. Just a few empty words spill off your keyboard without you having a
clue what they mean. You're probably good intentioned but so were the German
people and most of the Nazi party.

You should really read some of the bullsh!t that the Nazi propaganda machine
churned out to the German people (and the world), I think you'll find it matches
up with what Fox says and with what's coming out of our own White House with
uncanny verbatim.

[jafar00]

It stands for the freedom to conduct business with whom you want...

Hmmm, lets see. I have had several American companies wanting to do business with me....... but only as long as I stopped doing business with my Iranian and Syrian clients otherwise they were forbidden to do business with me according to US laws.
Your statement above is flawed.

[Tessy]

No he's right. Idealistically that IS what we're "supposed" to be about. The problem is that
it hasn't been that way for a very long time now and unfree trade agreements like TAFTA
and NAFTA and other global nazi ideals have taken precedence. America has NOT been a
free country for a very long time now! People confuse being able to still walk down the
street when they want and say what they want in forums like this with freedom.

The truth is that with current licenser, zoning, property rights, and trade law America is
one of the most oppressive nations on the planet. Probably equal to the UK as that is who
is really in control of the USA now. I say this from a little bit of ignorance because I don't
know UK trade law so well. Red China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan on the other hand I do know
about (having lived there and living there still) and the people there are actually more free
than in the USA.

This is true even on an individual rights level. The USA is a police state and has been since
the 60's. It's become so bad in the 90's and now that the US police are inseparable and
indistinguishable from the US army. You know what's funny as hell? The stupid Americans
live in it and don't even know how bad it is. Most of them have nothing to compare it to
I guess. The heat was turned up so slowly over time (since 1920 or so) that the nation
is cooking in boiling water and Americans think it's cool.

You'd think statistics like one in ten americans are imprisoned, or that we now have more
prisons than schools, or that with some of the new laws on the books projections are that
one in five Americans will be imprisoned by 2011, and etc. etc. would tip them off but they
seem to successfully ignore anything that doesn't affect them personally in the immediate
tense. What even worse is that so many people (like the majority of members here on this
site) actually say they want these things and say bring on more of it please! Disgusting!

Here's a news flash: It Seems The Nazis Won World War II

[Tessy]

Part of the problem is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADd3TIPAbGY&eurl=http://www.powderburns.org/

ADd3TIPAbGY

MOD EDIT: Fixed Youtube Link to work

[Tessy]

ADd3TIPAbGY

MOD EDIT: Fixed Youtube Link to work

Thanks! So now we only need the serial tag (or whatever it's called) for the
YT? Kewl!

[Elrathin]

Thanks! So now we only need the serial tag (or whatever it's called) for the
YT? Kewl!

Yeah there was a change with the new system.