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Alonzo
05-09-2008, 06:09 PM
Three eighth-graders at Dilworth-Glyndon-Felton Junior High spent Thursday in in-school suspension for sitting down during the pledge of allegiance.

Brandt Dahl said his homeroom teacher had never before told the class that the school handbook required students to stand up during the pledge.

The 13-year-old and two female students remained in their seats while classmates recited the pledge.

Principal Colleen Houglum, who was observing the class that morning, told those three students to report to the office, according to students’ accounts of what happened.

“At first, everyone thought that she was joking,” said Bishop Edens, a 14-year-old student in the class. “But after a few seconds, she got a little angry and said report to the office now.”

Houglum later told the class it was disrespectful to sit during the pledge of allegiance, especially at a time when there are troops fighting in Iraq, Edens said.

Houglum said in an interview that the school’s handbook requires students to stand during the pledge, but reciting it is optional. She said violating the student handbook may result in a variety of consequences.

Houglum said she could not comment about individual students because of privacy laws.

Teacher Sarah Johnson, new to the district this year, did not respond to an e-mail seeking comment. Superintendent Bernie Lipp did not return a call seeking comment.

Dahl said he and the other two students did homework all day during suspension and will be able to return to classes today.

“I thought it was kind of dumb because I didn’t do anything wrong,” Dahl said. “It should be the people’s choice.”

His mother, Kim Dahl, called the suspension “ridiculous” and said her son deserved a warning first since that policy had never been enforced before.

Edens, who stands up during the pledge but chooses not to recite it, said he didn’t think it was right for the school to force students to stand.

“She (Houglum) was talking about how people are fighting in the war for freedom, but she took away their freedom,” Edens said.

Today, Edens plans to sit down during the pledge to protest the school’s policy.

“I’m worried (about getting in trouble), but I feel I should speak my mind about this whole thing and not have her force her beliefs on anyone else,” Edens said.

Shaun Anderson, the father of one of the girls who was suspended, said his daughter normally stands for the pledge, but was talking to a friend about an assignment and didn’t hear it coming over the intercom. Anderson asked that his daughter’s name not be printed.

Anderson, a member of the military, said he believes people should stand during the pledge of allegiance in respect to those who have served the country.

“I totally, 100 percent agree with her,” Anderson said of the principal’s decision. “I think any American should believe that.”

http://www.in-forum.com/News/articles/200603

What the hell? This gets you suspended? I never really cared one way or another about the pledge, but I did usually stand, barring the occasional homework assignment I forgot to do.

Though I remember one year I didn't stand for about half the year. Like normal the pledge came on and I did stand, but I was also working on my homework so I was leaning on my desk. After the pledge a kid behind me got pissed off and asked me why I didn't do what I was supposed to do. I just said I was doing my homework and didn't really care one way or the other. This went back and forth a bit until he told me that I should leave the country if I don't like it, and that he would love to just smash someone like me if he met me outside of school.

That was all I had to hear. Threatening me never worked, if anything it tends to prompt me to do things that piss people off even more and I've always been that way. So, for the rest of the year, I remained seated during the pledge. I really enjoyed pissing him off day after day. :D

micfranklin
05-09-2008, 06:40 PM
When I was in school it was a nice thing to stand, sometimes even an option....but never was it required.

Nothing like getting suspended for stupid shit.

PatrickHenry
05-09-2008, 07:07 PM
If the nation were more honorable, everyone would be more willing to pay it respect.

Osborn F. Enready
05-09-2008, 08:57 PM
A good way to install nationalism from day one.....

YOU VILL RAISE YOUR HAND TO ZE HEART AND PLEDGE TO GOD UND FATHERLAND!

I am suprised they didn't put them on the list for suspicion and surveillance......

potter
05-09-2008, 09:05 PM
I am suprised they didn't put them on the list for suspicion and surveillance......

They did, but it's a state secret....

Drocket
05-09-2008, 09:24 PM
And the terrorist no-fly list gets a little big longer...

micfranklin
05-09-2008, 09:37 PM
Next I suppose you'll be suspended if you don't stand up to say the pledge quick enough....

Cobra
05-09-2008, 10:41 PM
Well that's not suprising. Teacher tells you to stand, you get smart and refuse, you get sent to the office/smart to the principle and suspended. Schools are fascist like that.

potter
05-09-2008, 10:44 PM
That's cause they want to condition the population to obey authority without question.....

They don't want ya'll to think for yourselves...

By the way, are ya'll wearing your flag pins?

Alonzo
05-09-2008, 10:48 PM
That's cause they want to condition the population to obey authority without question.....

They don't want ya'll to think for yourselves...

By the way, are ya'll wearing your flag pins?

I wore a flag pin for a while.

potter
05-09-2008, 10:54 PM
I wore a flag pin for a while.


Did it make ya feel all warm and gushy for yer country? Did it prove anything? Or was it a tag so other soldiers would know you were American so they wouldn shoot you??

Sorry to be such a smart ass about the "flag pin" Zo, but the way folks are getting all up in arms over a cheap hunk of metal forged and painted in China just shows me how unbelievably shallow this country really is.....

micfranklin
05-09-2008, 11:51 PM
They got an in-school suspension too, which is too much considering what happened but then out-of-school suspensions for this would make less sense.

Cobra
05-10-2008, 01:10 AM
in-house (in-school) sounds like a pretty average punishment to me.

Mouth Full Of Teeth
05-12-2008, 02:06 PM
I wore a flag pin for a while.

Was it made in China? :)

Mouth Full Of Teeth
05-12-2008, 02:11 PM
If the nation were more honorable, everyone would be more willing to pay it respect.

I see nothing honorable about forcing kids to stand during this piece of patriotic crap being shoved down their throats.

Alonzo
05-12-2008, 03:24 PM
Was it made in China? :)

I think it was made in Canada actually.

Osborn F. Enready
05-12-2008, 06:18 PM
I will never forget the day I went into a local store to buy some tea, and I saw the first batches of "support the troops" stickers for your car for sale......

I picked them up, and after looking at the package, I said "hey, why does this say (support the troops) but they are made in China?!?"

Yea, those weren't in the store the next time I went, but how many others mentioned that fact to THEIR store owners? How many stores are still selling Chinese made "support the troops" stickers and paraphenalia?

Saigio
05-12-2008, 07:08 PM
I usually stand, but I don't say anything. I don't get any trouble except for the occasional over-zealous substitute teacher that gets indignant that I'm quiet. I don't get any punishment for it. The teachers just say "You should be saying the pledge" and leave it at that. I guess I just got sick of having my loyalty pledged to an inanimate object before the freedom the media tells us it represents.

NDNdancer
05-15-2008, 01:02 AM
I have a US flag, a huge one, hanging upside down in my beading room along with my Che, and Chavez posters. Does that make up for the pin?

Trish
05-15-2008, 05:21 AM
I usually stand, but I don't say anything. I don't get any trouble except for the occasional over-zealous substitute teacher that gets indignant that I'm quiet. I don't get any punishment for it. The teachers just say "You should be saying the pledge" and leave it at that. I guess I just got sick of having my loyalty pledged to an inanimate object before the freedom the media tells us it represents.

The most important words in the pledge of allegiance are these...."and to the Republic for which it stands." The flag is the symbol - the republic for which it stands isn't. Those 8 little words make a world of difference.

PatrickHenry
05-15-2008, 08:29 AM
The most important words in the pledge of allegiance are these...."and to the Republic for which it stands." The flag is the symbol - the republic for which it stands isn't. Those 8 little words make a world of difference.if the flag is inanimate, like Saigio says...the republic is practically moribund...

And pledging allegiance to a nation as dishonorable as the USA is a lot like marryin' a wealthy whore.

People oughta be more wary. :sadly:

Trish
05-15-2008, 02:44 PM
if the flag is inanimate, like Saigio says...the republic is practically moribund...

And pledging allegiance to a nation as dishonorable as the USA is a lot like marryin' a wealthy whore.

People oughta be more wary. :sadly:

To continue with that analogy then those who continue to live under the protection and benefits of that whore are whoremongers, yes?

micfranklin
05-15-2008, 03:53 PM
And pledging allegiance to a nation as dishonorable as the USA is a lot like marryin' a wealthy whore.

Haha perfect analogy.

Saigio
05-15-2008, 04:19 PM
The most important words in the pledge of allegiance are these...."and to the Republic for which it stands." The flag is the symbol - the republic for which it stands isn't. Those 8 little words make a world of difference.

My problem is pledging myself to an inanimate object first, then the Republic. It's my personal feeling on pledges and that is unlikely to change. I have no problem pledging to a concept, like freedom, or justice, or equality. But I refuse to pledge myself to some scrap of cloth no matter what it means.

potter
05-15-2008, 09:47 PM
To continue with that analogy then those who continue to live under the protection and benefits of that whore are whoremongers, yes?


I suppose if you pay the taxes and live by the rules you are entitled to protection whether you have allegiance to it or not.

BTW..I agree that its rather foolish to pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth...rather than the country.

Osborn F. Enready
05-19-2008, 05:21 PM
Trish said:
The most important words in the pledge of allegiance are these...."and to the Republic for which it stands." The flag is the symbol - the republic for which it stands isn't. Those 8 little words make a world of difference.

Well said, and I agree, which is why I haven't said it, stood for it, or recited it in a long time....... the Republic NO LONGER STANDS, and what stands in its shadow is a disgrace to everything it once was.

Deadshot
05-19-2008, 05:30 PM
http://picayune.uclick.com/comics/ch/1988/ch880908.gif

Suspension might be a little much, but you always got into trouble for screwin' around with the pledge.

Elrathin
05-19-2008, 05:40 PM
Suspension might be a little much, but you always got into trouble for screwin' around with the pledge.

Changing it? Yes, you always got into trouble for doing that. But to get in trouble for not saying it? Sorry, but that is going too far.

Deadshot
05-19-2008, 05:49 PM
I agree it's going to far, but in the end the school district was/is embarassed has said in other news stories that a change in the handbook is in order, http://www.startribune.com/nation/18800444.html , and there has been threats of a lawsuit because of the illegality of the schools response to those students. But this doesn't suprise me.

Schools, and school districts, are - many times - their own little fiefdoms.

Some schools force atheletes to sign a "Code of Conduct" letter saying, among other things, that they will not even be present at a party with alcohol, or their off the team. Even though not other contract is binding with a CHILD!! Signed or not!!!

Some schools have a policy in place that negates the grade of an F. El, you get a F in History, your teacher can contact me and if I sign a piece of paper saying I won't sue the district in the future then you can "pass" the class and move forward.

Believe me when I tell you LOTS of school's have FUBAR rules and regs!