Abusive interrogations continue in US

[December]

Thu, 01 May 2008

Prisoner abuse at US navy base in Guantanamo, Cuba.
The US military uses abusive interrogation methods on detainees despite a 2003 directive orders to end such practices, the ACLU reports.

After reviewing newly released documents, known as the "Church Report", by the Pentagon, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) reveals that the military is using psychologists in interrogations of detainees while medical workers have been stopped from providing humane medical care to detainees and also reporting of the abuse taking place.

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=53917&sectionid=3510203

[Wndrtch]

Thu, 01 May 2008

Prisoner abuse at US navy base in Guantanamo, Cuba.
The US military uses abusive interrogation methods on detainees despite a 2003 directive orders to end such practices, the ACLU reports.

After reviewing newly released documents, known as the "Church Report", by the Pentagon, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) reveals that the military is using psychologists in interrogations of detainees while medical workers have been stopped from providing humane medical care to detainees and also reporting of the abuse taking place.

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=53917&sectionid=3510203

"Oh no! He was made to stand, hold a box, and put a bag over his head! Oh the humanity...!"

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk26/wndrtch/site120080501163426250.jpg

For some, that would be a typical Saturday night!

[Wndrtch]

"Oh no! He was made to stand, hold a box, and put a bag over his head! Oh the humanity...!"

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk26/wndrtch/site120080501163426250.jpg

For some, that would be a typical Saturday night!

Mr. Day relayed to me one of the stories Americans should hear. It involves what happened to him after escaping from a North Vietnamese prison during the war. When he was recaptured, a Vietnamese captor broke his arm and said, "I told you I would make you a cripple."

The break was designed to shatter Mr. Day's will. He had survived in prison on the hope that one day he would return to the United States and be able to fly again. To kill that hope, the Vietnamese left part of a bone sticking out of his arm, and put him in a misshapen cast. This was done so that the arm would heal at "a goofy angle," as Mr. Day explained. Had it done so, he never would have flown again.

But it didn't heal that way because of John McCain. Risking severe punishment, Messrs. McCain and Day collected pieces of bamboo in the prison courtyard to use as a splint. Mr. McCain put Mr. Day on the floor of their cell and, using his foot, jerked the broken bone into place. Then, using strips from the bandage on his own wounded leg and the bamboo, he put Mr. Day's splint in place.

Years later, Air Force surgeons examined Mr. Day and complimented the treatment he'd gotten from his captors. Mr. Day corrected them. It was Dr. McCain who deserved the credit. Mr. Day went on to fly again.

[DamnYankee]

"The US military uses abusive interrogation methods on detainees despite a 2003 directive orders to end such practices, the ACLU reports."

Using harsh language is "abusive" to the ACLU.

[Elrathin]

"The US military uses abusive interrogation methods on detainees despite a 2003 directive orders to end such practices, the ACLU reports."

Using harsh language is "abusive" to the ACLU.

I have extended this offer to all right wingers, allow me to perform the same tactics on you and let me know if you think it is torture. Amazing, no right wingers have stepped up to the plate. I wonder why?

[NortheastCynic]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/01/02/guantanamo/index.html

Placing a detainee in a darkened cell with the intent of interrogating him for 24 hours straight; the witness reported being told that then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had approved this technique.
Keeping detainees awake for days on end with strobe lights and loud music.
Dressing as a priest and "baptizing" a detainee.
Subjecting a detainee to a lap dance by a topless female guard.
Interrupting detainees' attempts to pray by putting fluid on their faces and telling them it was menstrual blood.
Beating a detainee who said he had recently undergone abdominal surgery.

"On several occasions witnesses saw detainees in interrogation rooms chained hand and foot in fetal position to floor with no chair/food/water; most urinated or defecated on selves and were left there 18, 24 hours or more," according to one FBI account made public.

One FBI witness saw a detainee "shaking with cold," while another noted a detainee in a sweltering unventilated room was "almost unconscious on a floor with a pile of hair next to him (he had apparently been pulling it out through the night)."

Another witness saw a detainee "with a full beard whose head was wrapped in duct tape."

-NC

[DamnYankee]

I have extended this offer to all right wingers, allow me to perform the same tactics on you and let me know if you think it is torture. Amazing, no right wingers have stepped up to the plate. I wonder why?

I accept your offer.

When you find me imprisoned on Gitmo as a terrorist, I'll send you a postcard. Bring your waterboard.

[PostmodernProphet]

After reviewing newly released documents, known as the "Church Report", by the Pentagon, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) reveals that the military is using psychologists in interrogations of detainees while medical workers have been stopped from providing humane medical care to detainees and also reporting of the abuse taking place.

I am surprised then, that the ACLU hasn't provided a link to a document that supports that claim....the sections I HAVE found quoted do NOT support that claim.....

I have extended this offer to all right wingers, allow me to perform the same tactics on you and let me know if you think it is torture.

it's a deal then....the next time I get captured in Iraq or Afghanistan while firing weapons at American soldiers you may to the same to me.....

[Wndrtch]

"The US military uses abusive interrogation methods on detainees despite a 2003 directive orders to end such practices, the ACLU reports."

Using harsh language is "abusive" to the ACLU.

So is wearing a bag on your head, appearently.

[Elrathin]

it's a deal then....the next time I get captured in Iraq or Afghanistan while firing weapons at American soldiers you may to the same to me.....

But its not torture according to right wingers, so what are you worried about let me waterboard you now and see if you think it's torture then.

Are you afraid that it might actually be torture? Seems like the right wingers here that don't think it is torture don't have the balls (as usual) to put up or shut up and have it done to them to prove it isn't.

[lily]

Subjecting a detainee to a lap dance by a topless female guard.

Let's take just this one thread and not discuss the same thing......this made my jaw drop to the floor.

We allow our female interrigators to do this??

[NortheastCynic]

My question was do we force our female guards to do this?

-NC

[DamnYankee]

let me waterboard you now and see if you think it's torture then.

See how you leftists work?

[NortheastCynic]

Well, this discussion's going nowhere.

Elrathin, I'm on your side here, but your argument's flawed. If extended, your argument could look like this: "If prison isn't torture, how about we imprison you."

That said, we need to define torture here. If simulated drowning isn't torture, why isn't it?

-NC

[PostmodernProphet]

But its not torture according to right wingers, so what are you worried about let me waterboard you now and see if you think it's torture then.Are you afraid that it might actually be torture? Seems like the right wingers here that don't think it is torture don't have the balls (as usual) to put up or shut up and have it done to them to prove it isn't.

let's see.....detainees were waterboarded because we were seeking information on people who had blown schoolchildren into tiny pieces.....you want to waterboard me because you want to gain minor points on a political debate board.....

it isn't torture...but the true issue proved by your challenge isn't whether I have sufficient balls, the true issue is whether I have sufficient brains.....I do have sufficient brains to bypass your ridiculous challenge.....

[DamnYankee]

Well, this discussion's going nowhere.

I agree.

Elrathin did the classic leftist move. Make an offer and when accepted, change the offer and make claims that people have no balls.

Classic liberalism.

[Elrathin]

I agree.

Elrathin did the classic leftist move. Make an offer and when accepted, change the offer and make claims that people have no balls.

Classic liberalism.

Nope the offer was to do the waterboarding since they don't think it is torture, and the righties chickened out. PERIOD.

[apdst]

That said, we need to define torture here.

The problem I have with the anti tourture crowd, is that they think anything is torture. It's as if anything less that The Ritz Carlton is unacceptable.

You're never going to extract info from a prisoner that way.

Interrogater: Are you going to tell us what we want to know?

Prisoner: No.

Interrogater: Ok, well, looks like we're done here. Thanks for your time.

That just ain't gonna work.

[Elrathin]

The problem I have with the anti tourture crowd, is that they think anything is torture. It's as if anything less that The Ritz Carlton is unacceptable.

Bullshit and you know it. There is a difference in interrogating someone like the police do and simulated drowning. Any idiot can see that. Why some conservatives want to be dumnbasses and think we want them interrogated in a hotel room is beyond me.

[PostmodernProphet]

Bullshit and you know it. There is a difference in interrogating someone like the police do and simulated drowning. Any idiot can see that. Why some conservatives want to be dumnbasses and think we want them interrogated in a hotel room is beyond me.

and what can idiots see about the difference between simulated drowning and strapping someone's testicles to a fully charged 12 volt battery?.......

[PostmodernProphet]

They are both torture. One is more severe than the other. DUH. Kinda like how some conservatives are dumber than others, that still doesn't make them smart.

somehow I knew you would be able to give me precisely the perspective I requested......

[Easy90]

"Subjecting a detainee to a lap dance by a topless female guard."

Let's take just this one thread and not discuss the same thing......this made my jaw drop to the floor.

We allow our female interrigators to do this??

ROTFL... I seriously doubt it. That's why this whole thread is so stupid.

[NortheastCynic]

ROTFL... I seriously doubt it. That's why this whole thread is so stupid.So are you claiming that, contrary to the article/documentation, a topless female guard did not give lap dances to prisoners?

-NC

[Elrathin]

I'm not a mod, but then again, the rest of us have to meet a higher standard, huh?

Don't even know where you're going with that, but have fun.

I'm maintaining that the anti-torture crowd does not think EVERYTHING is torture and it is BS to say otherwise.

[apdst]

I'm maintaining that the anti-torture crowd does not think EVERYTHING is torture and it is BS to say otherwise.

No, it's not. You never hear the anti-torture types advocating any sort of enhanced treatment.

[Elrathin]

No, it's not. You never hear the anti-torture types advocating any sort of enhanced treatment.

How about adhering to the Geneva Convention standards that our soldiers are supposed to be afforded? Yes, you can quote me where they do not HAVE to be treated under P.O.W. status, but that is what I want them to be treated as and interrogated by.

I'm well aware we don't have to do that, but that is what I and others want them under.

[apdst]

I'm well aware we don't have to do that, but that is what I and others want them under.

Like I said, The Ritz. Those prisoners are living better in Gitmo than they did back home. You're not going to pry info out of someone like that. Sometimes you have to smack a few beaks and bend a few arms to make people talk. And, for those that say that torture is effective, explain why the practices is several thousand years old.

[Elrathin]

Like I said, The Ritz. Those prisoners are living better in Gitmo than they did back home. You're not going to pry info out of someone like that.

The Ritz? So when our soldiers are P.O.W. (if they are kept under Geneva convention standards), you would think they were on a vacation too huh? lol.

As for better living conditions, sorry but freedom is always better than captivity. Last I checked families were not taking their family to GITMO for vacation.

The Ritz, lol, gimme a break. And some wonder why I call some statements BS. This is the prime example.

Sometimes you have to smack a few beaks and bend a few arms to make people talk. And, for those that say that torture is effective, explain why the practices is several thousand years old.

So let's see if I have your logic straight. When the enemy decides to smack a few beaks and bend a few arms on our soldiers, that is wrong. But when we do it to the enemy, that is right?

BTW Slavery was also used for thousands of years, that doesn't make it right.

[apdst]

So when our soldiers are P.O.W. (if they are kept under Geneva convention standards), you would think they were on a vacation too huh?

Only two times, in our history, have our soldiers experienced treatment to the standard of The Geneva Convention. So, our boys don't know what Geneva Convention treatment even is.

So let's see if I have your logic straight. When the enemy decides to smack a few beaks and bend a few arms on our soldiers, that is wrong. But when we do it to the enemy, that is right?

When The Germans bombed London, they were wrong. When The Allies bombed Dresden, they were right. Same logic, eh?

Again, for the thousandth time, war ain't about playing fair.

[Elrathin]

Again, for the thousandth time, war ain't about playing fair.

Well then according to your logic, flying planes into buildings was ok because war isn't about playing fair.

[apdst]

Well then according to your logic, flying planes into buildings was ok because war isn't about playing fair.

They did it yo us, so it's not ok. Try and keep up.

[micfranklin]

Is anyone really all that surprised by what heinous things our government does anymore? Conducting torture and then trying to cover it up is as much an everyday thing as breathing.

[apdst]

What would you define as torture, Mic?

[Easy90]

So are you claiming that, contrary to the article/documentation, a topless female guard did not give lap dances to prisoners?

-NC

I seriously doubt it...but if she did...I would hardly consider that to be "torture." Maybe for someone like you, having boobs shake in your face would be torture..but then...who cares? Not me! LOL!

[micfranklin]

What would you define as torture, Mic?

Anything that causes excessive and extreme pain, both physically and mentally. Like say, making hundreds of cuts on someone and then pouring alcohol on them.

[apdst]

What about sleep deprivation? 24 hour lighting? Sleeping on the floor? No climate control? Those don't inflict extreme pain. Just severe discomfort.

[lily]

I seriously doubt it...but if she did...I would hardly consider that to be "torture." Maybe for someone like you, having boobs shake in your face would be torture..but then...who cares? Not me! LOL!

If it's against your religion, it would be a form of torture. I also like the flippant way you just dismiss a female soldier being told to give a lap dance, and shake her boobs in front of someone as if it's nothing.........so then I guess it would be fine to tell you that you had to give a blow job?

[apdst]

If it's against your religion, it would be a form of torture

Would you be opposed to a female interrogater questioning a Muslim prisoner? That would be against his religious culture, as well.

[micfranklin]

What about sleep deprivation? 24 hour lighting? Sleeping on the floor? No climate control? Those don't inflict extreme pain. Just severe discomfort.

Sleeping on the floor? Maybe if its as hot as lava.

Sleep deprivation, all that lighting and climate control: like I said both physically AND mentally.

[lily]

Would you be opposed to a female interrogater questioning a Muslim prisoner? That would be against his religious culture, as well.

I am not that familiar with Muslim customs........but if you say so and there was a ale interrogater, then I say send the male in.....now personally I would rather have a Muslim, Iraqi or Afghan doing it........as I'm about done with this war and they should be doing it anyway by now.

[NortheastCynic]

I seriously doubt it...but if she did...I would hardly consider that to be "torture." Maybe for someone like you, having boobs shake in your face would be torture..but then...who cares? Not me! LOL!:madlaugh: "For someone like" me? :lmao: You know two things about me. A: my username and B: I disagree with you regarding this issue.

However, if I were in 6th grade, a joke implying someone is gay would have me in tears. Thank God I've grown up.

Ignorance is bliss.

To a conservative Muslim, having a topless lapdance is a sin. In addition, being subjugated by a woman is a disgrace.

-NC

[DamnYankee]

Abusive interrogations continue in US

Torture is so broadly defined, really anything could be torture. I am not completely opposed to using harsh interrogation techniques or things like playing loud music or keeping the lights on. If it means saving one American's life, go for it.

[micfranklin]

That's assuming everything the captives say isn't a lie just to get you to stop.

[apdst]

That's assuming everything the captives say isn't a lie just to get you to stop.

Any information, regardless of the means of extraction, is dubious. A prisoner isn't any more, or less likely to lie no matter what the means of extraction. The argument coming from the Leftists is that torture will cause a priosner to lie to make it stop. By the same token, a prisoner can lie under less pressured means just because he can get away with it. ANY information extracted from a prisoner has to be verified and always must be taken with a grain of salt.

How would you interrogate a prisoner?

[micfranklin]

Any information, regardless of the means of extraction, is dubious. A prisoner isn't any more, or less likely to lie no matter what the means of extraction. The argument coming from the Leftists is that torture will cause a priosner to lie to make it stop. By the same token, a prisoner can lie under less pressured means just because he can get away with it. ANY information extracted from a prisoner has to be verified and always must be taken with a grain of salt.

How would you interrogate a prisoner?

Truth serum. That's not extreme pain physically or mentally and I'm sure they have things like that around now. And yes a prisoner put under any kind of torture and say anything just so the pain will stop, whether they know anything or not.

[Easy90]

If it's against your religion, it would be a form of torture. I also like the flippant way you just dismiss a female soldier being told to give a lap dance, and shake her boobs in front of someone as if it's nothing.........so then I guess it would be fine to tell you that you had to give a blow job?

I find it hilarious that you believe that stupid crap. What does that say about you? LOL!

[Easy90]

:madlaugh: "For someone like" me? :lmao: You know two things about me. A: my username and B: I disagree with you regarding this issue.

However, if I were in 6th grade, a joke implying someone is gay would have me in tears. Thank God I've grown up.

Ignorance is bliss.

To a conservative Muslim, having a topless lapdance is a sin. In addition, being subjugated by a woman is a disgrace.

-NC

Now you really need to work out that frustrated hostility in a more productive way. You're the one that thinks looking at boobs is torture...Don't try to scrape your silly idiosyncrasies on me. LOL!

[apdst]

[quote]Truth serum.[quote]

I think you fellow Liberals would hate your guts for that.

[NortheastCynic]

Now you really need to work out that frustrated hostility in a more productive way. You're the one that thinks looking at boobs is torture...Don't try to scrape your silly idiosyncrasies on me. LOL!
:clapper:

Thanks for not disappointing.

-NC

[Easy90]

Be nice, or I'll hire a stripper to go shake her boobs in your face! LOL!

[NortheastCynic]

Be nice, or I'll hire a stripper to go shake her boobs in your face! LOL!Just out of curiosity, this is entertaining and all, but do you plan on actually responding to what I said...Don't feel obligated to, I enjoy watching you make a fool out of yourself.:lmao:

-NC

[MCTHOUSAND]

:madlaugh: "For someone like" me? :lmao: You know two things about me. A: my username and B: I disagree with you regarding this issue.

However, if I were in 6th grade, a joke implying someone is gay would have me in tears. Thank God I've grown up.

Ignorance is bliss.

To a conservative Muslim, having a topless lapdance is a sin. In addition, being subjugated by a woman is a disgrace.

-NC

[MCTHOUSAND]

Yeah, a conservative muslim would rather hoik out a female's clitoris and adjacent tissue, but after all, all the world's cultures are equal. NOT!

[Elrathin]

Yeah, a conservative muslim would rather hoik out a female's clitoris and adjacent tissue, but after all, all the world's cultures are equal. NOT!


So tell us, what is a conservative Muslim?

[NortheastCynic]

Yeah, a conservative muslim would rather hoik out a female's clitoris and adjacent tissue, but after all, all the world's cultures are equal. NOT!Holy non-sequitur Batman!

-NC

[Easy90]

Just out of curiosity, this is entertaining and all, but do you plan on actually responding to what I said...Don't feel obligated to, I enjoy watching you make a fool out of yourself.:lmao:

-NC

Other than call me names friend, I haven't noticed that you've said much of anything worthy of a response. Say something lucid that doesn't include an attack on me, and maybe I will respond to it with something other than reflecting back your acrimonious and mindless prattling.

Originally Posted by NortheastCynic View Post
"For someone like" me? You know two things about me. A: my username and B: I disagree with you regarding this issue. However, if I were in 6th grade, a joke implying someone is gay would have me in tears....Ignorance is bliss."

Above is something you said to which I will respond. Ready?

Check back with me when you make it to 6th grade...and, I am certain you find ignorance blissful." That good enough for ya?

[NortheastCynic]

:roflmao:
Oy vey, I'm running out of laughing emoticons.

It's possible that you don't remember what I wrote...Understandable, since you've been talking about my apparent distaste for 'boobs' the last several posts. But your, right, I'm the one 'mindlessly prattling' :lmao:.

Here's a recap. Before you began your 'boob-a-thon', I asked you whether you were denying the reported fact that a female guard gave a detainee a topless lapdance.

As that point, claimed that you did deny that fact and proceeded to say that topless lapdances might be torture to 'someone like me'.

Your attempt to make it appear as though I began this immaturity is laughable.

So you've denied a fact and then began your symposium on 'boobs'. If you expect me to take that seriously you're out of your mind.

-NC

[lieexposer]

If Americans consider that one of theirs could be made to stand holding a box with a hood over his head would be fair treatment of a prisoner, then they would be justified using the method on captives. During a time of war it's most important that torture techniqes are kept secret if they are going to be used. Even seemingly harmless practices such as women parading nude in front of Muslim captives. Those peoples' sensitivities will see it as offensive and they will be angered to the point of revenge on thier own prisoners.

[micfranklin]

Like other countries wouldn't do that to their own prisoners anyway?

[MCTHOUSAND]

So tell us, what is a conservative Muslim?

Google female circumcision. Draw your own conclusions. While you are at it check honor killings.

[Elrathin]

Draw your own conclusions.

I think that has been the problem all along, we gave conservatives crayons and they can't do a thing with them but eat them.

How about you learn about the Muslim religion and then come back with a little bit more knowledge on the subject other than what you see on the movies ok? Trust me, your statements will look a lot less foolish then.

What you described is not a conservative Muslim.

[apdst]

How about you learn about the Muslim religion and then come back with a little bit more knowledge on the subject

Ok, how 'bout fourteen hundred years of violence and genocide?

[MCTHOUSAND]

I think that has been the problem all along, we gave conservatives crayons and they can't do a thing with them but eat them.

How about you learn about the Muslim religion and then come back with a little bit more knowledge on the subject other than what you see on the movies ok? Trust me, your statements will look a lot less foolish then.

What you described is not a conservative Muslim.

I do know how to read. Please read the whole wikipedia article on the subject. According to this report, Egypt has a prevalance of 78% female circumcision, and I wonder what percentage of that number are conservative muslims? I do agree that some imams are against it but just remember that even the most radical say Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance.

The proof is in the pudding.

[Elrathin]

Ok, how 'bout fourteen hundred years of violence and genocide?

From every single Muslim and follower of Islam? I think not. Again, radicals have been around in the CHRISTIAN religion since its founding as well.

Play me another tune except the righties "I hate Muslims" tune it's getting quite old.

[lieexposer]

For those who support the US right to waterboard prisoners they should perhaps consider that the US found Japanese prisoners of war guilty of torturing Americans during WW2 and then executed Japanese prisoners for the crime.

[NortheastCynic]

Lieexposer, don't you know the rules, it's only a crime if someone else does it.

:rolleyes:

-NC

[lieexposer]

Lieexposer, don't you know the rules, it's only a crime if someone else does it.

:rolleyes:

-NC

Yes, I know that rule and I also know that some will still insist that torture is still necessary, even though they will attempt to say it's not torture.

Remember that the US government's best defence for using the practice is that it will only be used in instances where there is imminent danger which can be prevented by getting a confession and therefore it doesn't equate to the Japanese example. Then it needs to be pointed out that two atomic bombs about to be dropped on Japan would qualify as imminent danger.

It's always best to keep it a secret if a country is going to torture their captives because it's going to come around to bite them on the ass if they don't. Better still to not even do it of course because it doesn't work as much as it makes the torturers just feel good.

[Wndrtch]

Better still to not even do it of course because it doesn't work as much as it makes the torturers just feel good.


So, the professionals we hire in America to keep us safe, are just a bunch of blood-thirsty barbarians, hell-bent on getting their jolies off torturing people mercilessly? You realy believe that?

How sad you have such a low opinion of the people who are there to protect you and your family.

[NortheastCynic]

I'm not going to generalize, Wndrtch, but it's not as though there aren't examples of American 'professionals' being blood-thirsty barbarians, hell-bent on getting their jollies off torturing people mercilessly. And they sure as hell aren't keeping me and my family safe when they do such a thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

-NC

[Wndrtch]

I'm not going to generalize, Wndrtch, but it's not as though there aren't examples of American 'professionals' being blood-thirsty barbarians, hell-bent on getting their jollies off torturing people mercilessly. And they sure as hell aren't keeping me and my family safe when they do such a thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

-NC

Kiriakou, who says he did not himself participate in or witness the extreme technique being applied, said fellow agents informed him that Zabaydah "was able to withstand the waterboarding for quite some time -- and by that I mean probably 30, 35 seconds."

Shortly thereafter, the detainee "told his interrogator that Allah had visited him in his cell during the night and told him to cooperate because his cooperation would make it easier on the other brothers who had been captured," according to Kiriakou. "And from that day on, he answered every question..." The agent told Ross that waterboarding effectively "broke" Zabaydah, and "disrupted a number of attacks, maybe dozens of attacks."
Asked if he believed waterboading was torture, Kiriakou said that he didn't so at the time, but his opinion on the subject had shifted. "I think I've changed my mind," he said. "And I think that waterboarding is probably something that we shouldn't be in the business of doing."

Added Kiriakou, "We're Americans and we're better than this. And we shouldn't be doing this kind of thing. But at the same time, what happens if we don't waterboard a person and we don't get that nugget of information. I would have trouble forgiving myself."

[lieexposer]

So, the professionals we hire in America to keep us safe, are just a bunch of blood-thirsty barbarians, hell-bent on getting their jolies off torturing people mercilessly? You realy believe that?

How sad you have such a low opinion of the people who are there to protect you and your family.

Actually no, I don't think that in general because most professionals understand that torture is wrong and ineffective in accomplishing anything worthwhile. However now that you have brought up the issue of barbarians I am reminded of the evil pigs we saw in the Abu Ghraib pictures who were getting their jollies from torturing Iraqis.

Do you ever wonder how many Americans died in revenge killings just because of those pictures. Or do you wonder if the war would have progressed along more quickly had the pictures never have been shown in public? Sometimes I think that these issues become of secondary importance to you people who appear to support toruturing others.

It could perhaps be another example of the chickens coming home don't you think? What goes around comes around?

[lieexposer]

So Wndrtch, what they need to do is keep the torture secret? And if they don't and they're found out then those that torture should be put to death by execution for breaking the law? Or change the law and make torture legal if it is seen to serve the purpose of the torturers? I don't see any other choices.

[Wndrtch]

So Wndrtch, what they need to do is keep the torture secret? And if they don't and they're found out then those that torture should be put to death by execution for breaking the law? Or change the law and make torture legal if it is seen to serve the purpose of the torturers? I don't see any other choices.

"War" is a breakdown of civilization to begin with. When one makes the choice to engage in it, you are resined to the fact that you are going to kill people on the other side. Killing people, to me, is worse than torture because it is final. There's no going back.

I think that the legality of torture in the context of war, is a bit absurd. So yes, I would change the laws and allow toture.

[NortheastCynic]

You realize that the parts of the article that you didn't type in bold are quotes of the individual stating that we 'shouldn't be in the business' of waterboarding? Or are we just to ignore that?

I'm sure that some of the techniques work...Hell, nuking the entire Middle East would probably be an effective way of decreasing anti-American terrorism by a substantial percentage. That doesn't mean that we should do it. Nor does it make it [torture] legal.

-NC

[apdst]

Again, radicals have been around in the CHRISTIAN religion since its founding as well.

The last time Christians went bat-shit was something 600 hundred years ago. The Muslims have never checked up, not even once.

Every Muslim is guilty for the crimes of Islam. They either participated in them, or sat on their laurels and did nothing while they occured.

Were all Nazis? No. Did we make a distinction between Germans and Nazi germans? No.

[Elrathin]

Every Muslim is guilty for the crimes of Islam.

Yes, nothing like some conservatives showing their true colors and bigoted hatred against those Muslims that are peaceful. Just as disgusting as those that blame all blacks for crimes.

So since you think all Muslims are guilty, then why are we in Iraq, they are all guilty right?

[apdst]

Yes, nothing like some conservatives showing their true colors and bigoted hatred against those Muslims that are peaceful.

Why aren't those peaceful Muslims doing something to destroy the Islamo Facists?

Hell, even our resident Muslim Mod has a pro-terrorist avatar.

So since you think all Muslims are guilty, then why are we in Iraq, they are all guilty right?

We have to start somewhere.

[micfranklin]

Ok, how 'bout fourteen hundred years of violence and genocide?

Yeah because Muslims are the only ones who have committed genocide and violence for that long, never mind what the Romans or Greeks or other empires did.

[apdst]

Yeah because Muslims are the only ones who have committed genocide and violence for that long, never mind what the Romans or Greeks or other empires did.

How 'bout you relate to us all the genocides by the Romans, and especially the Greeks; as if it has shit to do with anything.

[apdst]

Back yet, Mic?

[Elrathin]

Why aren't those peaceful Muslims doing something to destroy the Islamo Facists?

A lot do, they just aren't doing violence against violence like you want. I'm sure some conservatives would just LOVE seeing Muslims kill other Muslims.


Hell, even our resident Muslim Mod has a pro-terrorist avatar.

And how is the Avatar Pro-Terrorist?


We have to start somewhere.

Start where? with genocide against Muslims?

[apdst]

And how is the Avatar Pro-Terrorist?

It says, "Support our troops", and displays A-rab writing and an AK-47. You do the math.

I'm sure some conservatives would just LOVE seeing Muslims kill other Muslims.

F'n-A! That's what needs to happen.

Hey, Mic,

I can't wait for you post your docs. After you do I'll post some info about the Pontic Greek Genocide that spanned from 1914 to 1923. This will be fun. I hope you got the cojones to take the challenge.

[Elrathin]

It says, "Support our troops", and displays A-rab writing and an AK-47. You do the math.

LOL, that isn't pro-terrorism just because of that. There are Muslims that are Iraqis you know and they aren't terrorists. That comment is uncalled for and obviously shows the ignorance of some in regards to their knowledge of what is a terrorism.

Islam is not terrorism.

[apdst]

LOL, that isn't pro-terrorism just because of that.

There aren't any of the good guys that tote AK's. The Iraqi Army does, but I bet the avatar in question isn't displayed in support of the Iraqi Army.

[apdst]

Still waiting, Mic.

[Elrathin]

There aren't any of the good guys that tote AK's. The Iraqi Army does, but I bet the avatar in question isn't displayed in support of the Iraqi Army.

Well you know what they say about when you Assume.

So to claim it is pro-terrorism when you don't even know is silly. Herre's a thought, how about you ask him before labeling it a pro-terrorist avatar.

[micfranklin]

Read that piece about the Pontic Greek Genocide, wasn't no better than the Armenian one. And how about those Christian crusades, it wasn't just a Muslim thing.

Oh and BTW I was making a comparison earlier.

[apdst]

Well you know what they say about when you Assume.

Yes, I know what they say about assume and I'm not assuming, anything.

how about you ask him before labeling it a pro-terrorist avatar.

He'll just tell us what we want to hear. It'll be a lie, I'm sure.

[apdst]

Read that piece about the Pontic Greek Genocide, wasn't no better than the Armenian one.

You read about the Pontic Greek Genocide? What was the Pontic Greek Genocide?

And how about those Christian crusades, it wasn't just a Muslim thing.

The Crusades were a response to Muslim invasions of Europe.

[micfranklin]

Yes, I know what they say about assume and I'm not assuming, anything.



He'll just tell us what we want to hear. It'll be a lie, I'm sure.

*cough* bullshit

[apdst]

*cough* bullshit

Oh yeah? Prove it!

You'll have better luck showing us all thos genocidal Greeks....LOL!!

[micfranklin]

You read about the Pontic Greek Genocide? What was the Pontic Greek Genocide?

A group of Turks (who were Arab, not Muslim) decided to wipe out all of the Pontic Greeks after World War I.

The Crusades were a response to Muslim invasions of Europe.

And they were trying to recapture the Holy Land from the Muslims, that was the original point.

[apdst]

A group of Turks (who were Arab, not Muslim) decided to wipe out all of the Pontic Greeks after World War I.

It was a genocide committed by the Muslim Ottamon Turkish Empire, sir.

And they were trying to recapture the Holy Land from the Muslims, that was the original point.

Uh, yeah, after the Muslims had invaded Europe and The Holy Land.

[micfranklin]

It was a genocide committed by the Muslim Ottamon Turkish Empire, sir.

No, actually it was the Young Turks.

[apdst]

Young Muslims, old Muslims. What's the difference.

Still waiting for those genocidal Greeks. I can't wait. I trully can't.

[Pookie]

I have a question:
If all of Islam is terrorists, how come most of our buildings are still standing?

And, back to the topic...
I think that in a perfect world, we should not do anything to our prisoners that we wouldn't want done to us if we were taken prisoner.
But this world isn't perfect, and not everyone plays by the rules, so what we should be doing is looking for the best and the fastest way to get real facts out of prisoners.
Is torture the best and fastest? There are arguments for and against it.
So if not sleep deprivation, and making them really, really uncomfortable isn't working and torturing them just pisses them off and makes them lie, what is a viable alternative?
Drugs? Get em drunk so they'll spill?
Y'all tell me.
Purrs,
Pookie

[Elrathin]

Yes, I know what they say about assume and I'm not assuming, anything.

Actually you are since you haven't asked him.



He'll just tell us what we want to hear. It'll be a lie, I'm sure.

Ah so instead of asking you'll just fill in the blanks with your paranoid comments that it is a pro-terrorism avatar. Yeah I can see how facts might get in the way of your assuming.

[micfranklin]

Young Muslims, old Muslims. What's the difference.

Still waiting for those genocidal Greeks. I can't wait. I trully can't.

The difference: the group was called the Young TURKS, not the young Muslims or the Young Go-gettas or whatever, look it up.

And okay, I can't find anything on genocidal Greeks (not saying they didn't do anything) but I can tell you so many other groups who are highly guilty of genocide and are NOT Muslims.

[apdst]

Actually you are since you haven't asked him.

I don't have to ask anyone a goddamned thing! I'll state my opinion and leave it up to everyone else to prove me wrong. Heavy emphasis on, "prove".

The difference: the group was called the Young TURKS, not the young Muslims or the Young Go-gettas or whatever, look it up.

I don't give a shit what they went by, they were still Muslims and they committed genocide in the 20th Century.

I can tell you so many other groups who are highly guilty of genocide and are NOT Muslims.

And none of them are around anymore, because someone else wiped their asses out.

[Elrathin]

I don't have to ask anyone a goddamned thing! I'll state my opinion and leave it up to everyone else to prove me wrong. Heavy emphasis on, "prove".

And I'll state MY opinion thank you very much that your statement is not fact and is an assumption. As for your opinion, that is exactly what it is, an OPINION and not fact.

Seems many conservatives don't bother with the facts, they just state bigoted and uneducated opinions.

[NortheastCynic]

The last time Christians went bat-shit was something 600 hundred years ago. So having sex with young boys, bombing abortion clinics, fighting long, bloody wars amongst each other [Northern Ireland], terrorizing black Americans [I can keep going if you want]...

Isn't something you'd call 'bat-shit' eh?

Clearly moderate Christians are to blame for all of this too...right?

That's the thing about grouping all people of a group together...It's easy to do to the group you belong to as well.

-NC

[micfranklin]

And none of them are around anymore, because someone else wiped their asses out.

There's plenty of white people around, as well as blacks or Asians though.

[apdst]

Seems many conservatives don't bother with the facts, they just state bigoted and uneducated opinions.

Such as Greek genocide and Ottoman Turks who aren't Muslims?

So having sex with young boys, bombing abortion clinics, fighting long, bloody wars amongst each other [Northern Ireland], terrorizing black Americans [I can keep going if you want]...

Please do, you only make yourself look foolish.

[NortheastCynic]

Please do, you only make yourself look foolish.Uh huh. Name one of the things that I mentioned that was not done by a Christian group.

I'll wait.

-NC

[apdst]

Uh huh. Name one of the things that I mentioned that was not done by a Christian group.

I never denied any of that.

You tell us how many of those things you named have been committed on a mass scale for the past one-thousand-four-hundred years. In most of the cases you listed, they were solo acts committed by a lone nut-job.

Tell us the last time there was a genocide in the name of Christianity--the Holocaust don't count, Hitler wasn't a Christian.

Maybe you could help Mic point to all those times that the Greek committed genocide.

[micfranklin]

Tell us the last time there was a genocide in the name of Christianity--the Holocaust don't count, Hitler wasn't a Christian.

How about all that colonialism in the 20th century: force the natives to be Christians like the colonists or kill them if they don't. That count? Or the witch hunts?

[apdst]

force the natives to be Christians like the colonists or kill them if they don't. That count? Or the witch hunts?

Is any of that stuff still going on?

That sort of behavior still goes on within the Muslim community, World Wide. That's why I'm so surprised that Liberals stick up for Muslims the way they do.

You tirade against events that happened one thousand years ago, all the while distorting the real facts. You falsely attribute genocide to nations that never committed such acts, yet you seem to ignore what Islam has been doing for fourteen hundred years. At best, you play it off to being just a few bad apples making trouble. Mind boggling!

[NortheastCynic]

You tell us how many of those things you named have been committed on a mass scale for the past one-thousand-four-hundred years. In most of the cases you listed, they were solo acts committed by a lone nut-job.
So having sex with young boysI believe this was fairly recent; perhaps within the past 1400 years.

bombing abortion clinicsI'm nearly certain that abortion clinics are a relatively new invention, so this must be recent as well. Of all of my examples, this however, was created on the smallest scale.

bloody wars amongst each other [Northern Ireland]Yep, so this qualifies.

terrorizing black Americans [I can keep going if you want]
The Klu Klux Klan was active well into the 1900s; and I'm not a math major but I believe that makes it recent as of the last 1400 years.

So about that...

-NC

[apdst]

I believe this was fairly recent; perhaps within the past 1400 years.

Yeah, and, again, they were solo acts by a few twisted cocksuckers; not the doctrine of an entire religion. It's been in just the past 20 odd years that The Taliban was executing women for showing their faces in public, too.

The Klu Klux Klan was active well into the 1900s; and I'm not a math major but I believe that makes it recent as of the last 1400 years.

I seem to remember that we crippled the KKK. Thanks to great Americans like J. Edgar Hoover. Has the Muslim community doesn jack shit to stem Muslim extremism?

All you done is point out either solo, or brief isolated incidents; none of which are on the sale of what the Muslims have been doing, constantly, for fourteen hundred years.

I see the outrage at the KKK, but not at the Muslims and I can't help but ask why.

[NortheastCynic]

eah, and, again, they were solo acts by a few twisted cocksuckers; not the doctrine of an entire religion. It's been in just the past 20 odd years that The Taliban was executing women for showing their faces in public, too.Was the clergy abuse scandal not covered up by higher ups in the Catholic Church? I believe they were. The acts were perpetrated by isolated priests, but they were able to get away with it for so long because they were protected by the Catholic Church.

I seem to remember that we crippled the KKK. Thanks to great Americans like J. Edgar Hoover. Has the Muslim community doesn jack shit to stem Muslim extremism?Whoa, whoa, whoa. You said that Christians hadn't gone 'batshit' in 1400 years. I have given an example that shows that to be inaccurate. The KKK was lynching black people as recently as 80 years ago.

Don't get me wrong APDST, Christian the community have been more civilized and peaceful as of late than the Muslim community [generally]. If this sounds racist...I don't care, it's simply a fact. But it is unfair to blame acts of radical Muslims on innocent moderates. That is my only point.

-NC

[micfranklin]

Is any of that stuff still going on?

That sort of behavior still goes on within the Muslim community, World Wide. That's why I'm so surprised that Liberals stick up for Muslims the way they do.

You said tell you the last time a genocide happened in the name of Christianity, well there ya go.

You tirade against events that happened one thousand years ago, all the while distorting the real facts. You falsely attribute genocide to nations that never committed such acts, yet you seem to ignore what Islam has been doing for fourteen hundred years. At best, you play it off to being just a few bad apples making trouble. Mind boggling!

Okay here's a few things: one, I admitted I couldn't find anything on the Greeks already. Two, I'm not ignoring what Islam has done and I never was I was just making a comparison but you seem to act as though Islam is the most evil thing ever, especially when you attacked Jafar's avatar like that.

[apdst]

You said tell you the last time a genocide happened in the name of Christianity, well there ya go.

You failed to prove your point. You pointed to a small handful of nut jobs. You used the KKK as example, and they never committed genocide.

Nice try, though.

you seem to act as though Islam is the most evil thing ever

If you consider that Islam is responsible for more murder than The Nazis, The Communists, The Christians and The Americans, combined, then yes, they could very well be the most evil thing ever. Again, I'm absolutely flabbergasted how Liberals can rave about how evil the Nazis, the KKK and the Soviets were, but claim that the Muslims are just misunderstood...LOL

[micfranklin]

You failed to prove your point. You pointed to a small handful of nut jobs. You used the KKK as example, and they never committed genocide.

Nice try, though.

I didn't use the KKK as an example.And there were lots of colonists who went and did that throughout the world. And there were also hundreds of thousands of people persecuted via witch hunts. Look it up.

If you consider that Islam is responsible for more murder than The Nazis, The Communists, The Christians and The Americans, combined, then yes, they could very well be the most evil thing ever. Again, I'm absolutely flabbergasted how Liberals can rave about how evil the Nazis, the KKK and the Soviets were, but claim that the Muslims are just misunderstood...LOL

So many anti-Islamic things you've said in this one thread, I might need to make a collection. But since you assume Islam is the worse murderer her, let me provide you with some figures:

-Nazis, from Hitler's rise to power to WWII are responsible for 20 million deaths, Holocaust included.

-Communist China is responsible for 20-43 million deaths.

-Communist Russia under Stalin, including the Great Purge, is responsible for 43 million deaths.

-White European settlers are responsible for the deaths of 13 million Native Americans.

-Witch hunts worldwide led to the deaths of 100,000 people.

-The colonists were responsible for 50 million deaths.

I'm pretty sure we all know there were many more genocides in history that were committed by non-Muslims other than these, but to sum up these totals thats about 169,100,000 deaths.

Oh and I left a little source in case you don't believe my numbers.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MURDER.HTM

[apdst]

I didn't use the KKK as an example.

You're right, you didn't use the KKK as example. Northeastern Cinic used them as example. It's hard to keep track when fighting all that misinformation at once.

And there were also hundreds of thousands of people persecuted via witch hunts. Look it up.

No, YOU look it up and come back with proof that hundreds of thousands of people died during the witch hunts. A little advice, you better use every witch hunt you can find...LOL!

-White European settlers are responsible for the deaths of 13 million Native Americans.

-Witch hunts worldwide led to the deaths of 100,000 people.

-The colonists were responsible for 50 million deaths.

I would LOVE to see documentation of these three--one of which contradicts what you said earlier. There weren't fifty million people for the colonists to kill. The site you linked is BS, if that's where you got those numbers from.

Let's take a look at some Muslim numbers:

7th Century - 40,000 Iranians killed

8th Century - 26,000 killed 60,000 forced into slavery

11th Century 65,000 500,000 forced into slavery

13th Century - 50,000 people forced into slavery after the attack on Kalinjar in 1202

Bengal 14th Century - 190,000 killed, over 100,000 forced into slavery

15th Century - 274,000

17th Century - 600,000

Armenia 1894-1896 - 250,000

armenia 1915-1918 - 1.5 million

Pontic Greek Genocide 1916-1923 - 360,000

Pakistan 1971 - 2.4 million Hindus

I can just imagine the hand wringing and guilt tripping if this were anyone else, but in the case of the Muslims? They're just a buncha misunderstood kids. I'm just not educated enough about their religion to understand why this sort of behavior for the past one thousand four hundred years is acceptable.

[apdst]

I was just making a comparison but you seem to act as though Islam is the most evil thing ever, especially when you attacked Jafar's avatar like that.

Oh, and BTW, you might take notice that someone changed his avatar.

[micfranklin]

No, YOU look it up and come back with proof that hundreds of thousands of people died during the witch hunts. A little advice, you better use every witch hunt you can find...LOL!

Well fine then, I accept your challenge but there's hundreds of links and I'm not posting every one of them. Note this first:

http://www.summerlands.com/crossroads/remembrance/current.htm

I would LOVE to see documentation of these three--one of which contradicts what you said earlier. There weren't fifty million people for the colonists to kill. The site you linked is BS, if that's where you got those numbers from.

You don't know the actual world population at the time of colonialism but from what I know many native tribes, especially ones in Africa, were wiped out entirely by colonists who came to take the land and make it a territory of some other country like Britain or France. And for the first one, I take it you think that all Native Americans just wiped themselves out and placed themselves on reservations?

Let's take a look at some Muslim numbers:

List of Muslim-related incidents with death tolls.

I did the math again and I got 5,755,000 deaths total from all those incidents, that's WAY less than the total I did earlier, but I'm guessing those are only a select few incidents.

I can just imagine the hand wringing and guilt tripping if this were anyone else, but in the case of the Muslims? They're just a buncha misunderstood kids.

Uh, no...No one is excusing what Muslims have done in the past just like no one is excusing what Christians or other groups have done in the past, I was just comparing it but you took it like I'm some kinda Muslim sympathizer or whatever.

I'm just not educated enough about their religion to understand why this sort of behavior for the past one thousand four hundred years is acceptable.

It's not, how many times do I have to say it? Then again you openly admitted you're not educated enough about their religion, or Muslims in general, so yeah we all understand that perfectly.

Oh, and BTW, you might take notice that someone changed his avatar.

Did you threaten to call the FBI on him because you don't like his avatar?

[apdst]

I did the math again and I got 5,755,000 deaths total from all those incidents, that's WAY less than the total I did earlier, but I'm guessing those are only a select few incidents.[quote]

You say that likes it's ok. Less is more?

[quote]Then again you openly admitted you're not educated enough about their religion, or Muslims in general, so yeah we all understand that perfectly.

I'm very educated about Islam, trust me. Far more educated than folks like you who defend them.

but you took it like I'm some kinda Muslim sympathizer or whatever.

Most Liberals are.

[micfranklin]

You say that likes it's ok. Less is more?

Oh God, are you being stupid on purpose? Point out to me where I said it was okay, I just told you that it was less deaths than the other incidents I posted earlier, I didn't say it was or would ever be okay.

I'm very educated about Islam, trust me. Far more educated than folks like you who defend them.

In fact you're so educated you don't even have to know every Muslim in the world, even Jafar, you can automatically assume they're guilty of some sort of terrorism without having any evidence. Why broaden your horizons when you can label and stereotype?

Yeah we don't got shit on you:grrrr:

[Elrathin]

I'm very educated about Islam, trust me. Far more educated than folks like you who defend them.

I seriously doubt that with your comments of all Islam followers are responsible for extremists and that Islam is a religion of terror. Seriously.

[apdst]

Point out to me where I said it was okay

Are you being a liar on purpose? You've busted your ass to claim that Islam is actually the religion of peace.

I seriously doubt that with your comments of all Islam followers are responsible for extremists and that Islam is a religion of terror.

They're as responsible as the Germans were for the Nazis. Seriously.

[Elrathin]

They're as responsible as the Germans were for the Nazis. Seriously.

All Germans were not responsible for the Nazis.

Just like not all Americans are responsible for the train wreck presidency called the Bush administration.

[micfranklin]

Are you being a liar on purpose? You've busted your ass to claim that Islam is actually the religion of peace.

So now not only are YOU lying on purpose your putting words in my mouth. Do us all a favor, put your baseless racism aside and point out to me where I said any of that. Then you can go back to picking on Muslims or whatever it is the Klan does.

[NortheastCynic]

You're right, you didn't use the KKK as example. Northeastern Cinic used them as example. It's hard to keep track when fighting all that misinformation at once.I'm sorry, point out the inaccuracy in the following sentence: The Klu Klux Klan was a radical, Protestant Christian terrorist organization that lynched and attacked thousands of black Americans up until the 1900s.

I'll save you the trouble, there is nothing inaccurate with that statement. For some reason you're not willing to apply your 'the moderates are to blame for the extremists' to logic to Christians and Christianity.

On edit: Micfranklin's far from liberal, I'm more liberal than him...Just sayin'.

-NC

[apdst]

Do us all a favor, put your baseless racism aside

Islam is a religion, not a race. I guess you're wrong, again.

Then you can go back to picking on Muslims or whatever it is the Klan does.

Oy, my goodness! The Muslims are victims now?

I'm sorry, point out the inaccuracy in the following sentence: The Klu Klux Klan was a radical, Protestant Christian terrorist organization that lynched and attacked thousands of black Americans up until the 1900s.

Well...

1. They terrorized both blacks and whites.

2. They did so well into the 1900's

[NortheastCynic]

Well...

1. They terrorized both blacks and whites.

2. They did so well into the 1900's
1. Does not point out an inaccuracy in my statement, it adds to it.
2. That's what I said, they did so until the 1900s, I didn't specify the time, but it was, in fact, well into the 1900s.

To the point: So now that we've established that the Klu Klux Klan was a Christian terrorist group, would you like to amend the statement you made claiming that Christians hadn't done anything 'batshit' for the last 1,400 years?

Moderate Christians must have been to blame for their actions as well, correct?

-NC

[micfranklin]

Islam is a religion, not a race. I guess you're wrong, again.

Bigotry, racism, Islamophobia: neither one makes you look cool.

Oy, my goodness! The Muslims are victims now?

Well when you immediately assume all Muslims worldwide are responsible for all terrorism, I'm not supposed to praise you for it. Yes what Muslims did in the past was wrong and no better than Hitler or Stalin did but no one seriously thinks all 150 million people in Russia are responsible for him.

[apdst]

So now that we've established that the Klu Klux Klan was a Christian terrorist group

Let us also establish that--my original point, anyway--the KKK was crippled by other white Christians. What's slowing the Muslims down?

neither one makes you look cool.

You say that as if I give a fuck!

[micfranklin]

Well now that you've established yourself as an Islamophobe you can go back to finding where I said it was okay to let Muslims off for their violence or that Islam was a religion of peace.

[apdst]

Well now that you've established yourself as an Islamophobe

Name calling is a Libbo's best friend. You can't make an arguement without it.

[Elrathin]

Name calling is a Libbo's best friend. You can't make an arguement without it.

Tell me, if every person who follows Islam is not peaceful why don't we have a MASS ATTACK from ALL MUSLIMS?

Fact is that it is not Islam is not a religion of peace, it is EXTREMIST followers of Islam that are not peaceful.

[micfranklin]

Name calling is a Libbo's best friend. You can't make an arguement without it.

Mad because I'm like the 8th person on this site to call you out on it? You've made several anti-Muslim posts before, you blamed all Islamic violence on every single Muslim in the world, attacked Jafar's avatar, what are we supposed to think?

If Islam was as evil as you imply it is then EVERY single Muslim in America, or worldwide would be praising what happened on 9/11. Don't you think?

[apdst]

you can go back to finding where I said it was okay to let Muslims off for their violence or that Islam was a religion of peace

No, you didn't say that verbatum, but you DID call me an, "Islamophobe", claim that I was,"picking", on the Muslims, accuse me of being a member of the KKK, and called me a racist. I would say you did a fine job sticking up for the bad guys.

Tell me, if every person who follows Islam is not peaceful why don't we have a MASS ATTACK from ALL MUSLIMS?

If most Muslims are oppsed to Islamic aggression against the rest of The World, why isn't their a large and pwoerful faction within the Muslim community, Worldwide, that is stamping out terrorism? It boils down to one of two things: 1. Most Muslims condone Islamic aggression, or 2. Most Muslims are too weak, or too stupid to do anything about it. You chose, and get back with me.

I mean, hey, they've had over a thousand years to act. What's the hold up?

You've made several anti-Muslim posts before

That damned 1st Amendment!

[NortheastCynic]

God this is getting ridiculous.

Simply calling your posts anti-Muslim [which they are, by definition], does not mean that you don't have the right to post them.

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

In addition, the 1st Amendment starts with "Congress shall make no law", as far as I know, Mic is not Congress, so he couldn't [nor could anyone else on this board] threaten your 1st Amendment rights

-NC

[micfranklin]

No, you didn't say that verbatum, but you DID call me an, "Islamophobe", claim that I was,"picking", on the Muslims, accuse me of being a member of the KKK, and called me a racist. I would say you did a fine job sticking up for the bad guys.

And I'd say you're doing a fine job of intentionally misrepresenting what I say because you're Islamophobic, which is more than obvious after reading all your posts.

It boils down to one of two things: 1. Most Muslims condone Islamic aggression, or 2. Most Muslims are too weak, or too stupid to do anything about it. You chose, and get back with me.

You wanna drop a link to a document that proves most Muslims either condone it or are weak? Because until you give us all some cold, hard evidence that says these things you're just talking out your ass.

Oh yeah and you just proved my point about you being anti-Muslim. Nice work.

[apdst]

Oh yeah and you just proved my point about you being anti-Muslim. Nice work.

I'm anti-Mulsim the same way I'm anti-Communist, anti-Nazi and anti-KKK. I wear your comments as a badge of honor.

[NortheastCynic]

Muslim = KKK


Oy vey. This is going nowhere fast.

-NC

[Elrathin]

I'm anti-Mulsim the same way I'm anti-Communist, anti-Nazi and anti-KKK. I wear your comments as a badge of honor.

So you are comparing the Muslims to Communists now?

[NortheastCynic]

Actually, this is a smooth segue for our word of the day:

Bigot, n.
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

[dictionary.com]

-NC

[micfranklin]

I'm anti-Mulsim the same way I'm anti-Communist, anti-Nazi and anti-KKK. I wear your comments as a badge of honor.

Because you don't understand jack shit about Islam, yeah we figured that out.

[Elrathin]

Because you don't understand jack shit about Islam, yeah we figured that out.

Couldn't have said it better myself, I have a Muslim neighbor and NOTHING apdst has said is representative of my neighbor and the religion he follows which is Islam. I personally don't agree with that religion, as well as Christianity, but since I have dinner with his family 2-3 times a month I'd wager to say that those on this board that have said Islam is a religion of terror don't know what the hell they are talking about.

[apdst]

Mic is not Congress, so he couldn't [nor could anyone else on this board] threaten your 1st Amendment rights

The 1st Amendment is a civil right, and yes, private citizens can threaten the civil rights of other citizens

Don't look, now, Mic, but you're going into Muslim defense mode.

How 'bout yopu explain it to me, Mic?

[micfranklin]

Don't look, now, Mic, but you're going into Muslim defense mode.

How 'bout yopu explain it to me, Mic?

Because you're guilty of Islamophobia and me, El and NC caught it and you're claming I'm going to Muslim defense mode because we've proven you wrong many times and anything you say stereotyping Muslims would be shot down immediately?

[apdst]

So, the only argument you can muster is to call me names? You can't find speck of info to defend Islam with.

[micfranklin]

So, the only argument you can muster is to call me names? You can't find speck of info to defend Islam with.

I wasn't defending Islam earlier I was doing a comparison between other groups committing violence and everything I added up totalled a lot more than what you posted.

You're being called names because it's true.

[apdst]

I wasn't defending Islam earlier I was doing a comparison between other groups committing violence and everything I added up totalled a lot more than what you posted.

So, it's all about the numbers? The Muslims aren't as bad because they haven't racked the same amount of kills? The point I've been making is that--regardless of numbers--Islam is just as bad as as the Nazis and the Commies. Numbers aside, the Muslims have been in the genocide business of alot longer than anyone else.

You're being called names because it's true.

What if I called you names? Would it prove my point?

[NortheastCynic]

The 1st Amendment is a civil right, and yes, private citizens can threaten the civil rights of other citizens

Don't look, now, Mic, but you're going into Muslim defense mode.

How 'bout yopu explain it to me, Mic?No, it is a Constitutional right. The Constitution enumerates and limits government power.

One that, once again, starts with the phrase 'Congress shall make no law...'...Mic is not Congress and therefore cannot violate 1st Amendment rights.

That is unless you look at the Constitution with something other than an originalist interpretation.

-NC

[apdst]

Well, you're correct on that point. Congress can't take awy my 1st Amendment rights. By the same token, Mic sure as hell can't either.

My point, is that without the government actually taking away my right ro free expression, Mis is going to have to deal with my opinion, or acquiesce.

[jafar00]

So, it's all about the numbers? The Muslims aren't as bad because they haven't racked the same amount of kills? The point I've been making is that--regardless of numbers--Islam is just as bad as as the Nazis and the Commies. Numbers aside, the Muslims have been in the genocide business of alot longer than anyone else.

Just where was your attention pointed soon after 9/11 when the Islamic community came out overwhelmingly in condemnation of terrorists? In fact the Grand Shekh of AL Azhar, the worlds largest and most highly regarded Islamic University branded the 9/11 terrorists and Al Qaeda Heretics and condemned them totally.

Muslims have been the victims of various genocides and mass murders and invasions in the last few hundred years. Does the fact that sometimes they have tried to defend themselves give you the right to call them nazis?

[micfranklin]

So, it's all about the numbers? The Muslims aren't as bad because they haven't racked the same amount of kills? The point I've been making is that--regardless of numbers--Islam is just as bad as as the Nazis and the Commies. Numbers aside, the Muslims have been in the genocide business of alot longer than anyone else.

There you go again, condemning all of Islam for the actions of a few and again with branding me as letting Islam off easy with their violence. Do I have to keep saying that violence from any group is no better than violence from other groups?

What if I called you names? Would it prove my point?

It wouldn't since I haven't said anything bigoted or racist.

[apdst]

Just where was your attention pointed soon after 9/11 when the Islamic community came out overwhelmingly in condemnation of terrorists?

Stop with that, please. By comparison, those people represented a microscopic faction within the Muslim community; just in America, much less Worldwide.

Muslims have been the victims of various genocides and mass murders and invasions in the last few hundred years.

Oh? Gee, I've never heard of any of them. How 'bout you list them for us. Do us a favor and don't waste our time claiming that Palestinians and Iraqis are victims of genocide.

There you go again, condemning all of Islam for the actions of a few and again with branding me as letting Islam off easy with their violence.

You've been on the defensive since you've been on this thread. Not condemning all of Islam is like saying that not all Nazis are bad.

Branding/name calling, by it's very nature is bigotry.

[NortheastCynic]

In the off chance that this thread can be saved:
Apdst, would you like to explain how Muslims [all Muslims] are like Nazis?

-NC

[apdst]

Apdst, would you like to explain how Muslims [all Muslims] are like Nazis?

Totalitarians, tyrranical, racial supremists, relgious fanatics. They've spent the past 14, going on 15 centuries slaughtering people into converting to Islam. Hell, how are they NOT like Nazis?

I'm still waiting for Jafars docs.

[NortheastCynic]

They?

Funny, I have, what, 7 Muslim friends, all of whom assure me [and I believe them], that they haven't slaughtered anyone in the past 14 centuries. In addition, all of the other negative adjectives you used do not apply to any of these 7.

Your ridiculous generalization of over 1 billion people is illogical and bigoted, Apdst, that's all there is to say.

Some Muslims are totalitarian, racist and/or fanatical. 'They' [meaning all of them] are not. To state otherwise is factually inaccurate and borderline delusional.

-NC

[apdst]

Your ridiculous generalization of over 1 billion people is illogical and bigoted, Apdst, that's all there is to say.

It's even more rediculous to claim that most Muslims are good guys, because you have seven Muslim friends. Not a defenetive number. Sorry.

Next time you see your seven Muslim pards, ask them what they have done to squash Islamic violence, in their lifetimes. I already know what the answer will be, but I think it important for you hear it yourself.

Still waiting, Jafar. Thanks in Advance.

[Buck Laser]

It's even more rediculous to claim that most Muslims are good guys, because you have seven Muslim friends. Not a defenetive number. Sorry.

Next time you see your seven Muslim pards, ask them what they have done to squash Islamic violence, in their lifetimes. I already know what the answer will be, but I think it important for you hear it yourself.

Still waiting, Jafar. Thanks in Advance.
Just curious to find out if there's ANY group that apdst doesn't hate or look down on. He's very open about hating Muslims. He doesn't think black people are fit to govern. He hates liberals. He doesn't trust anybody who hasn't served in the military, and probably no one who didn't see combat. It would be nice to see a list of the groups he does approve of.

[micfranklin]

You've been on the defensive since you've been on this thread. Not condemning all of Islam is like saying that not all Nazis are bad.

Condemning a whole religion that includes millions of people is bigoted, especially when its only a select few individuals that do the evil work. Nazis, on the other hand, are not a religion.

Branding/name calling, by it's very nature is bigotry.

Why, because everyone sees through your bullshit and you don't want to admit it?

[apdst]

Just curious to find out if there's ANY group that apdst doesn't hate or look down on.

I don't hate Jews. I don't hate white folks, black folks, hispanic folks; plenty of people I don't hate. I'll admit it's the shorter of the two lists. A spot on my hate list has definitely been earned by every group that's on it: Nazis, KKK, Skinheads, Muslims, Commies, etc.

Nazis, on the other hand, are not a religion.

Muslims are exempt from criticism because they are a religion? What's that got to do with anything?

Why, because everyone sees through your bullshit and you don't want to admit it?

Only a select few ever challange me on this issue. I think the silence of the majority speaks volumes.

[micfranklin]

A spot on my hate list has definitely been earned by every group that's on it: Nazis, KKK, Skinheads, Muslims, Commies, etc.

And there it is again, that hate for a religion that you don't understand.

Muslims are exempt from criticism because they are a religion? What's that got to do with anything?

Now how you got to them being "exempt from criticism" is beyond me. I never said anything like that I'm just picking apart your bigoted anti-Islam statements.

Only a select few ever challange me on this issue. I think the silence of the majority speaks volumes.

That's because the majority aren't haven't this thread.

[apdst]

And there it is again, that hate for a religion that you don't understand.

Oh, I understand the Muslims well enough. All one has to do is do a little research into their history.

Now how you got to them being "exempt from criticism" is beyond me. I never said anything like that I'm just picking apart your bigoted anti-Islam statements.

You just answered your own question.

That's because the majority aren't haven't this thread.

This thread has 151 posts and has been viewed 870 times. I doubt there is anyone that visits this forum, even a little bit, that aren't haven't this thread.

[MCTHOUSAND]

I don't know any muslims personally but just observing events in the news, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of muslims are afraid to protest violent acts or disagree with obvious injustice in their society. It is really a good way to get killed. I don't think Arafat was able to make any real progress for fear of extremist doing him in.

In world war two there were some Germans who tried to help Jews. Some ended up in the camps with the Jews and other non aryans.

It's great to live in a society where the worst thing to happen when you disagree is getting called a liar or being forced to explain yourself.

[micfranklin]

Oh, I understand the Muslims well enough. All one has to do is do a little research into their history.

Clearly you don't based on your blanket assumptions, as have been pointed out by at least 3 other people.

You just answered your own question.

To be critical of Islam and to be Islamophobic are two different things. Regular criticism doesn't include assuming every Muslim is responsible for every bit of terrorism and violence associated with Islam.

[apdst]

as have been pointed out by at least 3 other people.

A whole three people???

To be critical of Islam and to be Islamophobic are two different things.

Not to pc f'ers like you, it ain't.

Regular criticism doesn't include assuming every Muslim is responsible for every bit of terrorism and violence associated with Islam.

Did I say, every Muslim? I don't recall that. No matter, I'll make whatever blanket statement that I choose. It's your right, and your perogative to prove me wrong; which you've, so far, failed to do.

No worse than you assuming that most people in The South are racists, I reckon.

[micfranklin]

Did I say, every Muslim? I don't recall that. No matter, I'll make whatever blanket statement that I choose. It's your right, and your perogative to prove me wrong; which you've, so far, failed to do.

Have I now? Well let me do some backtracking for a minute. You've said the following things in this thread:

A spot on my hate list has definitely been earned by every group that's on it: Nazis, KKK, Skinheads, Muslims, Commies, etc.

It's even more rediculous to claim that most Muslims are good guys, because you have seven Muslim friends. Not a defenetive number. Sorry.

Obviously you're saying or at least implying that most, if not all Muslims are evil.

So, it's all about the numbers? The Muslims aren't as bad because they haven't racked the same amount of kills? The point I've been making is that--regardless of numbers--Islam is just as bad as as the Nazis and the Commies. Numbers aside, the Muslims have been in the genocide business of alot longer than anyone else.

And then just a few posts later:

Totalitarians, tyrranical, racial supremists, relgious fanatics. They've spent the past 14, going on 15 centuries slaughtering people into converting to Islam. Hell, how are they NOT like Nazis?

Comparing Muslims to Nazis. Classic.

Every Muslim is guilty for the crimes of Islam. They either participated in them, or sat on their laurels and did nothing while they occured.

And there it is, right there in your own words and that was back on page 8.

[apdst]

Obviously you're saying or at least implying that most, if not all Muslims are evil.

Of course, you're going to interpret my comments in the worst way. There are good Muslims in The World, but only a very small handful. There are the Muslims who have rejected Islam, after seeing through the bullshit. There is a microscopic group of Muslims that are actually working with The United States to defeat Islamic terrorists. There are other Muslim civilians who have volunteered their services to the FBI and CIA to fight terrorists. Those that have, have been ejected out their mosques by the mainstream Muslims.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to give an entire religion a free pass, just because one-hundreth of one percent of their membership are doing the right thing. Hell, if we did that, we wouldn't be able to citicise and hate Nazis, Klansmen, or Communists. We wouldn't want that, would we?

[micfranklin]

Well you compared them to Nazis in one post, then came out and said ALL Muslims are guilty for the crimes of Islam. How would any rational person interpret having Muslims on your "hate list?"

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to give an entire religion a free pass, just because one-hundreth of one percent of their membership are doing the right thing. Hell, if we did that, we wouldn't be able to citicise and hate Nazis, Klansmen, or Communists. We wouldn't want that, would we?

I wasn't giving it a free pass either, I was doing a comparison for the hundredth time.

[apdst]

How would any rational person interpret having Muslims on your "hate list?"

Muslims killed 2.4 million people in 1971. How can you NOT give them a spot on your hate list?

I wasn't giving it a free pass either

I've yet to hear you say anything critical about Islam. The prove has been provided to you, and you still maintain that 99.999999% of all Muslims are good people.

[micfranklin]

Muslims killed 2.4 million people in 1971. How can you NOT give them a spot on your hate list?

Because that incident, along with the others you listed earlier, are NOT representative of the whole Muslim population worldwide. Is it that difficult to understand?

I've yet to hear you say anything critical about Islam. The prove has been provided to you, and you still maintain that 99.999999% of all Muslims are good people.

You obviously don't take in what I say because many times in this thread I've said that what Muslims have done is no better than what other people have done, and I've said that at least 3 times. As for your percentage that many Muslims are NOT out to kill anyone, if that were true then every city on this planet would be burning down.

[apdst]

As for your percentage that many Muslims are NOT out to kill anyone, if that were true then every city on this planet would be burning down.

They can't do it all at one time. Look at the peace and harmony that exists in the ME. Ya think the trouble makers make up a very small faction of the Muslim community? Uh, no.

[micfranklin]

They can't do it all at one time. Look at the peace and harmony that exists in the ME. Ya think the trouble makers make up a very small faction of the Muslim community? Uh, no.

Actually they do. Just like inner-city black gangs make up a small portion of the black community, Muslim terrorists make up a small portion of the Muslim community. If that's not true then we can expect an attack every day for the rest of the year from Muslims, which is not going to happen because like I said a select few are not representative of a whole community.

[apdst]

Just like inner-city black gangs make up a small portion of the black community

And just like the Muslim community, the blacks sit back, let it happen and blame everyone else for the problem.

Even our resident Muslim claims that the trouble is everybody else's fault; that the Muslims are the victims and only doing what they have to do. He's a convert. Just think what lifetime Muslims, who have spent their entire lives in the ME, are thinking.

[micfranklin]

And just like the Muslim community, the blacks sit back, let it happen and blame everyone else for the problem.

Not quite, there's plenty of black people who police the neighborhoods and do something. I don't hang out in those neighborhoods but you're free to head there and see for yourself.

Even our resident Muslim claims that the trouble is everybody else's fault; that the Muslims are the victims and only doing what they have to do. He's a convert. Just think what lifetime Muslims, who have spent their entire lives in the ME, are thinking.

One guy's thoughts don't represent the whole community any more than one terrorist does.

[apdst]

Not quite, there's plenty of black people who police the neighborhoods and do something

I guess that explains why the problem is getting worse, and not better.

One guy's thoughts don't represent the whole community any more than one terrorist does.

100% of the Muslims on this forum support Islamic violence. I don't know whatelse to say.

[NortheastCynic]

It's even more rediculous to claim that most Muslims are good guys, because you have seven Muslim friends. Not a defenetive number. Sorry.

Next time you see your seven Muslim pards, ask them what they have done to squash Islamic violence, in their lifetimes. I already know what the answer will be, but I think it important for you hear it yourself.

Still waiting, Jafar. Thanks in Advance.I haven't claimed that most Muslims are good guys based on 7 friends. I don't have the audacity to claim to know whether the bulk of Muslims are good or bad. What you've done is used a strawman to ignore my argument. A very obvious strawman at that. I don't know the entire world's Muslim population. What you claimed is that 'they' [Muslims] are like Nazis. You didn't say that 'some Muslims' are like Nazis, nor did you say that 'most Muslims' are like Nazis, you said 'they' are like Nazis. In order to invalidate your argument, all I would need to do is give you one Muslim who is not like a Nazi. I gave you seven. But instead of recognizing the invalidity and absurdity of your generalization, you continue to ignore all laws of logic and persist in attempting to defend it.

In addition. What in Christ's name do you expect a [using one friend of mine as an example] 20 year old college student in New Jersey to do to stop worldwide Islamic terrorism? I'd LOVE to hear the answer to that question. My friend is not responsible for ending worldwide Islamic terrorism any more than you are responsible for ending worldwide White Supremacy.

What have you done to end world wide White Supremacy movements, Apdst?

-NC

[apdst]

20 year old college student in New Jersey to do to stop worldwide Islamic terrorism?

He can infiltrate inner-circles and gather information.

[NortheastCynic]

LOL.

Have a nice day, Apdst.

-NC

[apdst]

That's funny? You think that's funny? Please explain why you would scoff at such a suggestion.

[micfranklin]

100% of the Muslims on this forum support Islamic violence. I don't know whatelse to say.

Another bigoted blanket statement with not a shred of cold, hard evidence to back it up. You obviously have not been paying attention to anything that has been said in this whole thread, I don't know the number of Islamic people on this forum except for Jafar and it is really demeaning to him and every other Muslim to make a statement that assumes he supports Islamic violence.

For the last time: A FEW VIOLENT INDIVIDUALS DO NOT REPRESENT THE WHOLE GROUP. I'm not repeating this again.

He can infiltrate inner-circles and gather information.

I'm sorry but this is not an episode of 24.

[apdst]

it is really demeaning to him and every other Muslim to make a statement that assumes he supports Islamic violence.

But, he does. You see how fast he lost that AK-47 avatar. Doncha? He's never laid blame at the terrorists feet. He's said in the past that The US and Israel are committing genocide in the ME. Have you seen him come back with evidence of his earlier claims?

For the last time: A FEW VIOLENT INDIVIDUALS DO NOT REPRESENT THE WHOLE GROUP. I'm not repeating this again.

I don't give a fuck what you do, or don't do, boy.

I'm sorry but this is not an episode of 24.

That infatile attitude is why American Muslims will never get involved.

[micfranklin]

But, he does. You see how fast he lost that AK-47 avatar. Doncha? He's never laid blame at the terrorists feet. He's said in the past that The US and Israel are committing genocide in the ME. Have you seen him come back with evidence of his earlier claims?

Um, you must be thinking of the Jafar that Disney made because the one here has never even hinted that. He's had that avatar for a while now but you're the one who made an issue out of that, given everything you've stated in this thread.

That infatile attitude is why American Muslims will never get involved.

And that statement is why people consider you Islamophobic. Now do us all a favor and bring me some proof that explicitly states that EVERY Muslim worldwide is a terrorist in hiding and is responsible for all trouble.

[apdst]

Um, you must be thinking of the Jafar that Disney made because the one here has never even hinted that.

Your head is completely within your rectum if you've never noticed his sympathy for the terrorists. He claimed that Hamas is a legitimate, legal and justified resistance movement. He's claimed on several ocvcasions that it's the fault of the US and Israel. He's claimed that 9/11 was an American plot, involving the Israelis. You need to wake up.

is responsible for all trouble.

Ok, show us all the Muslim anti-terrorist task forces. We'll be waiting.

[micfranklin]

Your head is completely within your rectum if you've never noticed his sympathy for the terrorists. He claimed that Hamas is a legitimate, legal and justified resistance movement. He's claimed on several ocvcasions that it's the fault of the US and Israel. He's claimed that 9/11 was an American plot, involving the Israelis. You need to wake up.

Oh, so you don't remember when he said this earlier in this very thread:

Just where was your attention pointed soon after 9/11 when the Islamic community came out overwhelmingly in condemnation of terrorists? In fact the Grand Shekh of AL Azhar, the worlds largest and most highly regarded Islamic University branded the 9/11 terrorists and Al Qaeda Heretics and condemned them totally.

Ok, show us all the Muslim anti-terrorist task forces. We'll be waiting.

Behold.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Muslim_Coalition_Against_Terrorism

[apdst]

One? That's it? World's largest religion has ONE anti-terrorist website?!?

[NortheastCynic]

Mic, you're wasting your time with Apdst...

-NC

[lily]

He can infiltrate inner-circles and gather information.

After reading pages of this..........I think if you actually believe all Muslims are eveil and jafar is after all a muslim.....then it really is your civic duty to do something about it!:dizzy::madlaugh:

[NortheastCynic]

Shhh, Lily. Non-Muslims don't have actively impede Islamic terrorism. It wouldn't be a bigoted line of 'reasoning' if they did.

-NC

[micfranklin]

One? That's it? World's largest religion has ONE anti-terrorist website?!?

1. There's a list of otherIslam-related organizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States#Organizations) you can read up on.

2. Christianity is the world's largest religion, Islam is the 2nd largest. For someone who claims to be very educated about Islam you missed that fairly obvious bit of info.

[apdst]

I think if you actually believe all Muslims are eveil and jafar is after all a muslim.....then it really is your civic duty to do something about it!

Do you hear about Islamic terrorists operating in Louisiana?

Christianity is the world's largest religion, Islam is the 2nd largest. For someone who claims to be very educated about Islam you missed that fairly obvious bit of info.

I stand corrected. The article I read claims that Islam has surpassed Catholicism as The World's largest single denomination.

[micfranklin]

Like this one?

1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
2. Islam: 1.5 billion
3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism: 900 million
5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
6. Buddhism: 376 million

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

[Elrathin]

Do you hear about Islamic terrorists operating in Louisiana?

I thought you said the ENTIRE religion was evil. I'm sure there are Muslims in Louisiana.

[apdst]

1. There's a list of otherIslam-related organizations you can read up on.

I saw two Muslim orgs on your link: al Qaeda and The Anti-Defamation League. The fore speaks for itself and the latter does nothing but cry up a storm everytime they don't like the way Muslims are being treated.

I thought you said the ENTIRE religion was evil. I'm sure there are Muslims in Louisiana.

As long as they be cool, everything will be ok. If they start acting stupid, these coonasses will get medieval on thier asses.

[Buck Laser]

I saw two Muslim orgs on your link: al Qaeda and The Anti-Defamation League. The fore speaks for itself and the latter does nothing but cry up a storm everytime they don't like the way Muslims are being treated.



As long as they be cool, everything will be ok. If they start acting stupid, these coonasses will get medieval on thier asses.

Anti-Defamation League??! Are you fuckin' serious?? ADL is and always has been Jewish organization. :clapper:

Just whom did you call "these coonasses?" You talkin' about Cajuns?

[apdst]

Well, hell, then the only Muslim group on Mic's link is al Qaeda...LOL!!!

Yes, I'm referring to Cajuns.

[micfranklin]

I saw two Muslim orgs on your link: al Qaeda and The Anti-Defamation League. The fore speaks for itself and the latter does nothing but cry up a storm everytime they don't like the way Muslims are being treated.

You must not have read the link at all because I counted at least 9, none of them included al-Qaeda, unless you're trying to further your own anti-Muslim agenda by ignoring what is clearly presented to you.

[apdst]

You must