US-led forces kill 38 in Baghdad

[December]

USA committing war crimes as we speak....

Mon, 28 Apr 2008

http://www.presstv.com/photo/20080428/ghaffari-bita20080428134902531.JPG

US-led forces have killed 38 people in Baghdad's Sadr City, including 22 who have lost their lives after a US tank opened fire.

The US military said on Monday it had killed 22 fighters of Moqtada Sadr's Mahdi Army when a US tank fired on them in Baghdad's Sadr City, but the Sadr movement has not confirmed the US claim. Others died in the clashes.

The military reported no US soldier or Iraqi security force casualties in the attack.
Nearly 450 Iraqi people most of them civilians have been killed and more than 1,800 others wounded since March 25 when violence erupted after Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki ordered a countrywide crackdown on alleged militias, starting in the southern oil city of Basra.

Since then Sadr City has been a target of US military attacks and the populated slum area has frequently been pounded by US aircraft or artillery, leading to heavy loss of civilian life.
Al-Sadr has been demanding an end to "the tyrant occupation" of Iraq by the US-led forces and maintains that Iraq's major problems are caused by US occupation of the oil-rich country.

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=53471&sectionid=351020201

[December]

The International Criminal Court of Justice

http://www.icc-cpi.int/images/index/splash_button_en.gif

http://www.icc-cpi.int

http://www.un.org/icc/photos/icc1.jpg


FROM THE GENEVA CONVENTION:

Protocol 1

Additional to the Geneva Conventions, 1977

PART IV: CIVILIAN POPULATION

Section 1: General Protection Against Effects of Hostilities
Chapter I: Basic Rule and Field of Application
Article 48: Basic Rule

In order to ensure respect for and protection of the civilian population and civilian objects, the Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives.

...

Chapter II: Civilians and Civilian Population

Article 50: Definition of Civilians and Civilian Population
A civilian is any person who does not belong to one of the categories of persons referred to in Article 4 A 111, lIl, (31 and 161 of the Third Convention and in Article 43 of this Protocol. In case of doubt whether a person is a civilian, that person shall be considered to be a civilian.

The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.
The presence within the civilian population of individuals who do not come within the definition of civilians does not deprive the population of its civilian character.

Article 51: Protection of the Civilian Population

The civilian population and individual civilians shall enjoy general protection against dangers arising from military operations. To give effect to this protection, the following rules, which are additional to other applicable rules of international law, shall be observed in all circumstances.
The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.
Civilians shall enjoy the protection afforded by this Section, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.

Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited. Indiscriminate attacks are:
those which are not directed at a specific military objective;
those which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or
those which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by this Protocol; and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.
Among others, the following types of attacks are to be considered as indiscriminate:

an attack by bombardment by any methods or means which treats as a single military objective a number of clearly separated and distinct military objectives located in a city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects; and
an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.

Attacks against the civilian population or civilians by way of reprisals are prohibited.

The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favor or impede military operations. The Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations.
Any violation of these prohibitions shall not release the Parties to the conflict from their legal obligations with respect to the civilian population and civilians, including the obligation to take the precautionary measures provided for in Article 57.

http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-proto.htm

[Questerr]

December I'll comment on a couple of the very manipulative and wrong things you have posted here:


US-led forces have killed 38 people in Baghdad's Sadr City, including 22 who have lost their lives after a US tank opened fire.


Those 22 people killed, even the article states that they were insurgents that were attacking US troops! Why the hell would that be a war crime?


The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.


Note above, "Shall not be the object of attack". Unless you can prove that the US has been deliberately targetting civilians, then there is no war crime. If civilians are killed in the cross fire, that is collateral damage.

Collateral damage happens in war! Not ever your beloved Russians could avoid civilian casualties when they fought in Grozny, could they?


Nearly 450 Iraqi people most of them civilians have been killed and more than 1,800 others wounded since March 25 when violence erupted after Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki ordered a countrywide crackdown on alleged militias, starting in the southern oil city of Basra.


You seem to forget that the Iraqis ordered this operation, not Americans. More to the point, the article doesn't say that the US caused all those deaths. It only states that most of them are civilians.

Now, let me ask you a question, what is the group that is constantly using indescriminant IEDs? Who drives car bombs into crowded market places and kills civilians? Who use mosques and innocent people as human shields?

Hint: Its not the guys in the ACU's with reversed US flags on their shoulders...

[PostmodernProphet]

if they don't have a gun in their hands by the time they arrive at the hospital, are they civilians?..........

[potter]

By the time the war crimes tribunal gets underway Bush and his gang will be safely on their ranch in Paraguy....

No extridite agreements there.

[December]

By the time the war crimes tribunal gets underway Bush and his gang will be safely on their ranch in Paraguy....

No extridite agreements there.

Well, than american soldiers will get a prison term or be executed for their war crimes.

You can run, american soldiers, but you cannot hide.

[potter]

Well, than american soldiers will get a prison term or be executed for their war crimes.

You can run, american soldiers, but you cannot hide.


And Bush/Ceney are the kind of men that would allow someone else to pay for their crimes.

[apdst]

The US military said on Monday it had killed 22 fighters of Moqtada Sadr's Mahdi Army when a US tank fired on them in Baghdad's Sadr City

Sounds like our boys had a damn good day.

[Questerr]

Sounds like our boys had a damn good day.

Hooah.

[DamnYankee]

The more of those insurgents that are dead, the better off we are.

[potter]

The more of those insurgents that are dead, the better off we are.


Even though those insurgents are nothing more than patriots trying to repell hostile invaders?

Remember that when it's our turn.

[PostmodernProphet]

Even though those insurgents are nothing more than patriots trying to repell hostile invaders?



funny then that the patriots kill so many Iraqi police officers and Iraqi school children and people shopping in Iraqi markets........oh wait.....I know what your response is going to be.....those Iraqi school children are supporting the "hostile invaders".......

[DamnYankee]

Even though those insurgents are nothing more than patriots trying to repell hostile invaders?

Remember that when it's our turn.

I don't look for you and I to be on the same side when it is "our turn."

[jafar00]

funny then that the patriots kill so many Iraqi police officers and Iraqi school children and people shopping in Iraqi markets........oh wait.....I know what your response is going to be.....those Iraqi school children are supporting the "hostile invaders".......

You are confusing the insurgents or freedom fighters with Al Qaeda terrorists that just target Iraqi civilians.

[potter]

I don't look for you and I to be on the same side when it is "our turn."


Unless it's our government we're fighting, it would be in my best interest to be on the same side as you now wouldn't it? (as in another country attacking us on our soil?) Then we could both be be insurgents. :thumbsup:

[PostmodernProphet]

You are confusing the insurgents or freedom fighters with Al Qaeda terrorists that just target Iraqi civilians.

or, you are confusing people who murder innocent civilians intentionally for political purposes with someone interested in "freedom"........

[Elrathin]

funny then that the patriots kill so many Iraqi police officers and Iraqi school children and people shopping in Iraqi markets........oh wait.....I know what your response is going to be.....those Iraqi school children are supporting the "hostile invaders".......

The insurgents should just do as the U.S. does and call them Collateral Damage. That seems to make it alright when the U.S. kills innocents.

[potter]

or, you are confusing people who murder innocent civilians intentionally for political purposes with someone interested in "freedom"........


Ummm...who are you talking about? :blah:

[lieexposer]

Be patient December, the occupiers will kill some Iraqis in every battle but they aren't going to win the war. The Iraqi people's resolve to live free and not under foreign occupation hardens with every innocent civilian killed. And the Iraqi resistance is now taking them out where they live and hiding in their safe zone. This is a long way from mission accomplished yet.

I've never heard such outright hateful comments as I've just heard from some of the prowar people on this forum. But the positive side of that is that they are no longer pretending to care about the Iraqi civilians who were supposed to be the latest excuse for their war in Iraq. It's fine with me to be able to start with that understanding without having to go to the trouble of arguing their denial. Also, what goes along with that is the fact that nobody else has to pretend that they have any sympathy with the murderous occupation forces.

This too will end and we can only hope that more hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians will not die for the US economic and political cause in Iraq.

[PostmodernProphet]

The insurgents should just do as the U.S. does and call them Collateral Damage. That seems to make it alright when the U.S. kills innocents.

when you set off a bomb IN a crowded market place or under a school bus, how do you pretend it is "collateral"?......

[PostmodernProphet]

Ummm...who are you talking about? :blah:

I am talking about people who kill innocent civilians intentionally for political purposes....

[jafar00]

or, you are confusing people who murder innocent civilians intentionally for political purposes with someone interested in "freedom"........

Isn't that what I just said? :innocent:

[Wndrtch]

The insurgents should just do as the U.S. does and call them Collateral Damage. That seems to make it alright when the U.S. kills innocents.

Except for the fact that they are the intended targets, not "caught in the crossfire".

[PostmodernProphet]

Isn't that what I just said? :innocent:

only if you wrote it poorly.....what I stated is the opposite of what you wrote.....