Hold On To Your Hats

[Mayberry]

Because we're in for a bumpy ride. Now I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I think that Peak Oil might be upon us. I think the Arabs are keeping production down because they want to cash in on their last hurrah. Once the oil is gone, they're screwed, and so are we. I sit here every day and watch as oil and gas prices climb through the roof unchecked, and the price of everything else is starting to catch up. A lot of folks are going to be in a real hurt locker soon, if they're not already. The next thing that really bothers me are the stories about the rice rationing that is slowly starting to happen. I don't believe I've ever heard of any kind of food rationing before, especially not here in the good ol' US of A. This is very worrisome. As more and more farmland is turned over to the Great Ethanol Scam, what is going to happen to our other food staples? We're already seeing record corn prices. We are doing some pretty idiotic things in this country lately, and the cross-eyed, drooling public is eating it up. We need to wake up and take a good, hard look around. Something is sneaking up on us. The land of plenty ain't gonna have too much soon. Big agriculture is driven by petroleum folks. Fertilizers, tractor and combine fuel, packaging, shipping to market..... What happens when fuel reaches $10 a gallon? At the rate things are going it'll be there in a few short years. $10 a gallon milk. $5 for a bag of microwave popcorn. $4 for a loaf of bread. Am I making you nervous? I should be. Those kinds of prices are coming, and soon. We need to get ready. It's not going to be pretty when the lights go out and the riots start. Big Brother won't be able to save us, he'll be broke. Think about it.

[PatrickHenry]

Don't blame the Arabs.

Oilmen are seated in glory in Washington DC.

The OilMajors are forbidden to conspire together to fix prices.

But if OPEC does it and they profit...the blame is redirected.

The Iraq War's purpose was to keep Iraqi oil OFF THE MARKET, decreasing supply and raising the value of crude owned by the OilMajors.

We need to strategize about how to survive the coming collapse, Mayberry.

[potter]

Wonder how things would have been if we'd used all those hundreds of billions we spent securing ME oil to develop alternate energy sources.

Seems like Carter got us on that track during the embargo but for some reason the track was derrailed....

It might be a completely different world....

[jafar00]

Because we're in for a bumpy ride. Now I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I think that Peak Oil might be upon us. I think the Arabs are keeping production down because they want to cash in on their last hurrah. Once the oil is gone, they're screwed, and so are we. I sit here every day and watch as oil and gas prices climb through the roof unchecked, and the price of everything else is starting to catch up. A lot of folks are going to be in a real hurt locker soon, if they're not already. The next thing that really bothers me are the stories about the rice rationing that is slowly starting to happen. I don't believe I've ever heard of any kind of food rationing before, especially not here in the good ol' US of A. This is very worrisome. As more and more farmland is turned over to the Great Ethanol Scam, what is going to happen to our other food staples? We're already seeing record corn prices. We are doing some pretty idiotic things in this country lately, and the cross-eyed, drooling public is eating it up. We need to wake up and take a good, hard look around. Something is sneaking up on us. The land of plenty ain't gonna have too much soon. Big agriculture is driven by petroleum folks. Fertilizers, tractor and combine fuel, packaging, shipping to market..... What happens when fuel reaches $10 a gallon? At the rate things are going it'll be there in a few short years. $10 a gallon milk. $5 for a bag of microwave popcorn. $4 for a loaf of bread. Am I making you nervous? I should be. Those kinds of prices are coming, and soon. We need to get ready. It's not going to be pretty when the lights go out and the riots start. Big Brother won't be able to save us, he'll be broke. Think about it.

Don't blame the Arabs and their oil for the inflation problems. Blame first, Ben Bernanke and his Fed's weak dollar policy which has made everything priced in US$ more expensive. Second blame the rich speculators for buying up big on a speculative commodities boom and raising prices even further. And third, blame Bush and his policies that have sent the US into recession and weakened the US$ even further and exacerbating the problem.

[Pookie]

Don't blame the Arabs and their oil for the inflation problems. Blame first, Ben Bernanke and his Fed's weak dollar policy which has made everything priced in US$ more expensive. Second blame the rich speculators for buying up big on a speculative commodities boom and raising prices even further. And third, blame Bush and his policies that have sent the US into recession and weakened the US$ even further and exacerbating the problem.

I must take issue with this, Jafar.
We are not to be blaming, we are needing to understand. Before anyone goes all to shit over that statement, let me explain, please.

Gas has gone up. Exxon is reporting record profits. I can be angry about that.
I am not.

What I am trying to do is understand that the oil and gas companies are not going to lower prices, and no one else will, either.

What I am having to do is adapt to these changing times. I use the bus to the store in bad weather, and yes, carry a few bags of groceries home.

This serves two purposes:
I save money on gas, and I get excercise. Can anyone fault me for that?

When the weather is good, and I don't have to worry about wet brakes (that sucks!) I ride my bike to the store.

It is MY responsibility, and MINE ONLY, to take care of my man and our pets and all we have here. Hubby helps do this too, of course, but what kind of woman (or person) would I be if I dumped the whole responsibility on him? That would be shameful, asinine, uncaring, thoughtless, and irresponsible.

So, my message here is we really need to understand that certain things may not change, and we need to adapt to these changes and we need to maybe, sometimes, make some very serious changes in our lifestyles.

We need to keep saving our money for retirement. If that means, for now, and perhaps always, doing with less to save, then so be it.

I want a $6000 stove by Aga. I was hoping to save for it, but when we went over the budget today, there are many, many more things more important than a fancy stove.

I can cook just great on the one I have, so that Aga is out the window.

Our retirement and our future is more important. You have to change your hopes, too, to fit these days and times. My hopes are simple; I hope we will be healthy and NOT DEPENDENT on the government for anything.

Does any of that make sense? I rambled on about us, but that is all I have to back myself up.

Purrs,
Pookie

[PatrickHenry]

Mayberry, maybe we could use this thread to discuss some of the things that could be done by us ordinary folks to dodge the brunt of what's coming.

Possibly the first item to look at is what may be coming at us.

I think it may be a period of hyperinflation that will shrink the value of all paper assets.

Paper money, money in the bank or retirement accounts, could all be reduced by an inflation rate of (conservatively) 50% per year, right?

I think there is a possibility of much worse inflation than that!

One of the dodges could be precious metals, held in a safe place.

Another way to deflect the consequences of rotten economic times is reducing monthly expenses. What can we turn off or delete from our lives that will make our monthly bills lower? Insurance payments, cable TV, memberships, extra credit cards, you tell me...

Then there is the strategy of selling extra items no longer needed now before desperate times render them worthless, and they CAN'T be sold.

Or how about this one: Personally providing for some of our own needs? Like growing food, or hunting or fishing or getting some renewable energy going?

Also the debt problem. I don't know about you, but just now, I have run up a big credit card bill and need to lower that payment. The problem with charge card credit is that the rate is adjustable! If hyperinflation hits, it could take most of your monthly income just to make the minimum payment! The lenders could start charging as much as 60% per year! Or even more if the conditions warrant...

Gee, what a gloomy thread...

[Wndrtch]

We need to strategize about how to survive the coming collapse, Mayberry.

BUNKERS!!

Bunkers and canned food.

Bunkers, canned food, and a radio.

Bunkers, canned food, a radio, and a distillery.

Bunkers, canned food, a radio, a distillery, and satin sheets.

Bunkers, canned food, a radio, a distillery, satin sheets, and a collection of Penthouse Magazines.

Bunkers, canned food, a radio, a distillery, satin sheets, a collection of Penthouse Magazines, and cigarettes.

Bunkers, canned food, a radio, a distillery, satin sheets, a collection of Penthouse Magazines, cigarettes, and a dog.

[Truth_and_Power]

Ok I'm going to succumb to stereotypes here and admit my girlffriend does 90% of the grocery/produce/etc shopping. (hell, she even bought me some work pants recently)
SHE says that food prices are really going up fast. It is slipping out of my mind right now, but there is some item she said is exactly double what it was a couple years ago. DOUBLE!! Well, I said, that is a low-cost item ($1-ish), so I think most of that is distribution which is heavily influenced by fuel prices which are..... double.

We are looking to buy a house soon, and this is really making us think twice about how much we can afford. If food expenses double again .. and again.. we will be sorry if we have a really large mortgage payment.

[potter]

Pookie and PatrickHenry, good posts. Turning lemons into lemonaid must be your specialty. :thumbsup:

[lily]

I don't want to sound like an oldtimer........but I think those of us that that made it through the last recession might be a little better prepared. On second thought..maybe not......flour is now $3.49 a bag....granted it is a lot cheaper and of course tastes a lot better than store bought bread, it sure goes a lot faster. Turkey that used to be on special at least once a month for 49 cents a pound, I can't even touch......and I'll tell you, the things I could do with left over turkey.

.......as for farmers turning over all their farmland......what is left of it that is, that they haven't had to sell off to keep up farming.......well the only one left that I know of can't do corn........costs too much for the fertilizer for corn, takes up more room than soybeans and the pesticides would break him.

We also have to stop and think how the lower value of the dollar not only effects us....but the rest of the world. Oh we'll all survive, I don't think we'll see the riots other countries have, but I also don't see too many movies in my future either.

[Buck Laser]

What I want to know is why the Bush administration has steadfastly refused to endorse major efforts at energy conservation. Can anyone explain that in terms that make sense? To me, it just looks like the height of stupidity.

[PatrickHenry]

Are you on a fixed income, Buck?

Because I am concerned for those who may be unable to meet higher prices for virtually everything.

How will we help the less fortunate?

[Buck Laser]

Are you on a fixed income, Buck?

Because I am concerned for those who may be unable to meet higher prices for virtually everything.

How will we help the less fortunate?

Yeah, I'm on a fixed income. And I'm making greater efforts every year to reduce my energy consumption. I bought a hybrid 4 years ago, and now get an average of over 46 mpg. I truly doubt that a "tax holiday" would result in as much savings for me as the better gas mileage I get.

This whole gas tax thing is a snare and a delusion. It can ONLY hurt us in the long run--unless you want toll roads everywhere.

PS: Actually, I should be FOR toll roads since I don't have to use them, but I have this sense that tells me we're all in this together. Toll roads are an abomination.

[preservanation]

What I want to know is why the Bush administration has steadfastly refused to endorse major efforts at energy conservation. Can anyone explain that in terms that make sense? To me, it just looks like the height of stupidity.The height of stupidity is to complain about prices and supply when the environmental wackos (who no one elected) dictate where and how we can get the energy which is available right under our feet and then blame our lack of supply on the very people who want to go get it, refine it and sell it...

The solution is not to burn our food supply.
A six year old can figure this out, why can't some 'educated' adults do the same?

EDIT: If someone can explain to me how increasing regulations, taxes and the cost of business to the energy producers in this country, and the Govt "taking their profits" like Hilary proposes, will decrease the cost of a gallon of gas to the consumer...PLEASE DO!
I'm all ears.

Oh wait...let's add raising taxes on the poor and middle class, doubling the dividend tax (anyone own a 401K?), protectionism and abolishing NAFTA into the mix too.
If any of these idiots ever get into power...we're f****ed

[lily]

The height of stupidity is to complain about prices and supply when the environmental wackos (who no one elected) dictate where and how we can get the energy which is available right under our feet and then blame our lack of supply on the very people who want to go get it, refine it and sell it...

You know.....this is what cracks me up......the "environmental wackos" as you like to call us, have only said no to Anwar.......feel free to drill all you want in other places.....that is if you can get the ex-governor (Jeb) to say ok.....or for that matter the current governors of any other place.....you see it's not just "environmental wackos"...nor is Anwar the only place to drill.

The solution is not to burn our food supply.
A six year old can figure this out, why can't some 'educated' adults do the same?

Well...maybe you can talk to the current resident of 1600 Pennsalvania Avenue? I know he's working on switch grass and woodchips too.......guess he'll be clearing brush for fuel when he retires?

EDIT: If someone can explain to me how increasing regulations, taxes and the cost of business to the energy producers in this country, and the Govt "taking their profits" like Hilary proposes, will decrease the cost of a gallon of gas to the consumer...PLEASE DO!
I'm all ears.

I wasn't aware that Hillary was still talking about taking profits from big oil....or is that because she's campaigning in big oil states this week? I thought she was on board with McCain to give us this big tax free summer.....which is going to do soooooo much good......me, I think I'd take those tax breaks away from big oil, since they don't seem to be doing what they are suppose to with them anyway........and use that for the tax break Clinton and McCain want to give away.

Either way.......I think big oil's ride is going to be over soon anyway.


If any of these idiots ever get into power...we're f****ed

Compared to the way we've been f***ed for the past 7 years.....it's going to be sooooooooo good!

[BoogyMan]

The complete partisan wrangle we have going on in this thread tells me that we will most likely never be able to come together as a nation and deal with the real issues that we face with regard to energy.

I am no fan of burning our food stocks for fuel, but we may have no other choice if the now 27 year old moratorium on drilling off shore on our Atlantic and Pacific coasts is not reconsidered.

Rather than holding up a great big R or D by our positions on this very real problem why don't we look a little deeper and realize that gas costs the same for both Republicans and Democrats and that our so called "leaders" from both sides of the aisle have played a part in crafting the current energy situation.

[Pookie]

I had the blessed opportunity to be born to parents who were much older when they had me, and who went through both the Depression and the rationing and all of WW2. They had a wonderful way of saving and stretching money, and I am lucky to this day to be their daughter because I learned so much growing up from them.
Dad, additionally, shoved the idea of "making my money work for me" through investments. So, waaaayyy back when I got my first paycheck from the Army, there was this little tiny company that had just gone public called "Microsoft."
I dumped my whole savings account of $600 into it. Dad told me to add to it and don't touch it.
So I added and added and added to it. The rest is history.
House is all paid for, never had a mortgage. Never had car payments (never drove a brand new car either and our home was 20 years old when we got it), only have three credit cards, and one is for hubby's computer business, but we have the savings for our retirement
Folks, if something really looks promising, and you have even a couple hundred bucks to play with, try that investment. One thing I always look for is any military contracts. Those can be pretty good in returns.

Crap, I'm off topic. Okay, back to the topic, we have many challenges ahead of us. We must be ready to meet these challenges, and we must be ready to deal with these challenges while keeping our financial stability. Only WE can do this.

I just mean to take advantage of investments that will help us, to recognize these changes, and to respond and meet these changes.
Hell, does that make any sense?
Purrs,
Pookie

Boogy, read this first, please!

[Mayberry]

I like Pat's idea of sharing strategies here, instead of bickering.
SHE says that food prices are really going up fast. It is slipping out of my mind right now, but there is some item she said is exactly double what it was a couple years ago. DOUBLE!! She's right. Even if that 50 cent item is now a dollar, multiply that item times 100. When I grocery shop, it's generally for the entire month (2 carts worth) and you can really see those increases add up quick. Sometimes I even get a sick feeling watching the register tally climb at an alarming rate as they scan my stuff, rapidly approaching my budgetary limit. We don't get a lot of meat anymore either.We are looking to buy a house soon, and this is really making us think twice about how much we can afford. You are wise to do so. We bought our house August 15, 2001. Had we waited a few more weeks we may not have bought at all! .......as for farmers turning over all their farmland......what is left of it that is, that they haven't had to sell off to keep up farming.......well the only one left that I know of can't do corn........costs too much for the fertilizer for corn, takes up more room than soybeans and the pesticides would break him.
Fertilizer is in trouble, at least for a while. http://biz.yahoo.com/nytimes/080430/1194770341872.html?.v=6
Oh we'll all survive, I don't think we'll see the riots other countries have, Don't be so sure. Toll roads are an abomination. Yup. But I think they'll become a non-issue if the stuff really does hit the fan. Not many will be driving anyway. Either way.......I think big oil's ride is going to be over soon anyway.
Did anyone catch Exxon's projections the other day? Damned if I can find a link (I wonder why....), but they breezed through the part that showed flat production for the next 4 years, while demand increases 2% a year. Hmmmm.... Peak Oil anyone? I thought she was on board with McCain to give us this big tax free summer..... She is, but she's going to pay for it by "taking their profits". We need a "beating head against the wall" smiley. The complete partisan wrangle we have going on in this thread tells me that we will most likely never be able to come together as a nation and deal with the real issues that we face with regard to energy.

I am no fan of burning our food stocks for fuel, but we may have no other choice if the now 27 year old moratorium on drilling off shore on our Atlantic and Pacific coasts is not reconsidered.

Rather than holding up a great big R or D by our positions on this very real problem why don't we look a little deeper and realize that gas costs the same for both Republicans and Democrats and that our so called "leaders" from both sides of the aisle have played a part in crafting the current energy situation. Boogy, the voice of reason! You're right too. Time to drop the bickering. Things are going to get real ugly, real soon. I can just feel it, call it what you want but it's there. It's not going away, no matter what I do. The feeling of impending disaster of some sort is with me every waking moment. My "feelings" about things haven't been wrong so far in my life, so I sure as hell ain't gonna ignore this one. And at any rate, I'd much rather be prepared for something that never happens than to be caught with my pants down and sh!t out of luck. Hell, does that make any sense?
It does to me!

[Mayberry]

Oh yeah, I forgot:
BUNKERS!!

Bunkers and canned food.

Bunkers, canned food, and a radio.

Bunkers, canned food, a radio, and a distillery.

Bunkers, canned food, a radio, a distillery, and satin sheets.

Bunkers, canned food, a radio, a distillery, satin sheets, and a collection of Penthouse Magazines.

Bunkers, canned food, a radio, a distillery, satin sheets, a collection of Penthouse Magazines, and cigarettes.

Bunkers, canned food, a radio, a distillery, satin sheets, a collection of Penthouse Magazines, cigarettes, and a dog. :dork: Not a bad idea at all. I've already started mine.

[Mayberry]

OK, without sounding like a total survivalist nut, here's what I've come up with so far:

1. Garage sale. Get rid of all the junk that is not needed. And I do mean ALL of it.
2. Stock up. Canned goods, dry goods, fuel, firewood, water, batteries, etc...
3. Buy. Get tangible items needed NOW. For the foreseeable future, the dollar is only going to decline further, so buy stuff now while your dollar still has some value. Then pay down debt with the less valuable dollar later. And hey, if things really do turn for the worst, your debt may just evaporate into thin air anyway!
4. Plan. Have a contingency plan for the worst case scenario. Where will you go? How will you get there? How will you sustain yourself once you do get there? For instance, I am buying a pop up camper (thanks for the cash Mr. Bush!). Hopefully it'll just be for weekend getaways at the lake, but in a pinch it'll do as a temporary shelter for my family. If a category 5 hurricane lands here, we'll need that camper! And our other supplies for that matter.
5. Educate yourself. What will you do if you can no longer run down to the corner store, call a repair man when something breaks, or God forbid not find a doctor if someone falls ill or gets injured? Get books. Books on any subject you may not be proficient in may just save your life, or at the very least can save you some cash! I am fortunate in that I can do most anything for myself, and I can come up with creative solutions to problems, but I often turn to books, or the 'net for ideas. If the 'net were to go away for some reason, I'd sure wish I had more books.
6. Do anything you can to make yourself more independent. The "catch all". :nana:

[preservanation]

OK, without sounding like a total survivalist nut,Too late. :)

[Wndrtch]

OK, without sounding like a total survivalist nut, here's what I've come up with so far:

1. Garage sale. Get rid of all the junk that is not needed. And I do mean ALL of it.
2. Stock up. Canned goods, dry goods, fuel, firewood, water, batteries, etc...
3. Buy. Get tangible items needed NOW. For the foreseeable future, the dollar is only going to decline further, so buy stuff now while your dollar still has some value. Then pay down debt with the less valuable dollar later. And hey, if things really do turn for the worst, your debt may just evaporate into thin air anyway!
4. Plan. Have a contingency plan for the worst case scenario. Where will you go? How will you get there? How will you sustain yourself once you do get there? For instance, I am buying a pop up camper (thanks for the cash Mr. Bush!). Hopefully it'll just be for weekend getaways at the lake, but in a pinch it'll do as a temporary shelter for my family. If a category 5 hurricane lands here, we'll need that camper! And our other supplies for that matter.
5. Educate yourself. What will you do if you can no longer run down to the corner store, call a repair man when something breaks, or God forbid not find a doctor if someone falls ill or gets injured? Get books. Books on any subject you may not be proficient in may just save your life, or at the very least can save you some cash! I am fortunate in that I can do most anything for myself, and I can come up with creative solutions to problems, but I often turn to books, or the 'net for ideas. If the 'net were to go away for some reason, I'd sure wish I had more books.
6. Do anything you can to make yourself more independent. The "catch all". :nana:

Don't forget to convert all your cash assets into a useable metal commodity like Gold. Get in in-hand, no "investment vehicle". As long as there are humans, Gold will have some value, so convert it all, and store it under you mattress in the bunker.

And if things get back to normal, your Gold most likely will be worth more and you will grow your money a bit.

[Mayberry]

Here is an excellent video, a little long winded but worth the watch. It confirms what I've known all along: life was better 30 years ago, and things are going downhill fast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

[potter]

The height of stupidity is to complain about prices and supply when the environmental wackos (who no one elected) dictate where and how we can get the energy which is available right under our feet and then blame our lack of supply on the very people who want to go get it, refine it and sell it...

The solution is not to burn our food supply.
A six year old can figure this out, why can't some 'educated' adults do the same?

EDIT: If someone can explain to me how increasing regulations, taxes and the cost of business to the energy producers in this country, and the Govt "taking their profits" like Hilary proposes, will decrease the cost of a gallon of gas to the consumer...PLEASE DO!
I'm all ears.

Oh wait...let's add raising taxes on the poor and middle class, doubling the dividend tax (anyone own a 401K?), protectionism and abolishing NAFTA into the mix too.
If any of these idiots ever get into power...we're f****ed

I'm curious about why you didn't address Bucks post. Conserving energy...using less of it and not wasting it.....I'm thinking that was his point....not finding new energy sources, but why isn't the government promoting conservation.

[potter]

Don't forget to convert all your cash assets into a useable metal commodity like Gold. Get in in-hand, no "investment vehicle". As long as there are humans, Gold will have some value, so convert it all, and store it under you mattress in the bunker.

And if things get back to normal, your Gold most likely will be worth more and you will grow your money a bit.


Where does one buy gold?

[PatrickHenry]

Where does one buy gold?
That's a valid question, potter.

If you just want a little, you can get it across a counter at a local coin shop.

If you want bigger hunks, the US Gov sells it through licensees.

Or if you are looking to really invest a lot there are huge firms to help you.

It's an international commodity.

If Uncle Sam tries to interfere, the elites of the world will likely hold him down and beat the snot out of him.

[potter]

OK, without sounding like a total survivalist nut, here's what I've come up with so far:

1. Garage sale. Get rid of all the junk that is not needed. And I do mean ALL of it.
2. Stock up. Canned goods, dry goods, fuel, firewood, water, batteries, etc...
3. Buy. Get tangible items needed NOW. For the foreseeable future, the dollar is only going to decline further, so buy stuff now while your dollar still has some value. Then pay down debt with the less valuable dollar later. And hey, if things really do turn for the worst, your debt may just evaporate into thin air anyway!
4. Plan. Have a contingency plan for the worst case scenario. Where will you go? How will you get there? How will you sustain yourself once you do get there? For instance, I am buying a pop up camper (thanks for the cash Mr. Bush!). Hopefully it'll just be for weekend getaways at the lake, but in a pinch it'll do as a temporary shelter for my family. If a category 5 hurricane lands here, we'll need that camper! And our other supplies for that matter.
5. Educate yourself. What will you do if you can no longer run down to the corner store, call a repair man when something breaks, or God forbid not find a doctor if someone falls ill or gets injured? Get books. Books on any subject you may not be proficient in may just save your life, or at the very least can save you some cash! I am fortunate in that I can do most anything for myself, and I can come up with creative solutions to problems, but I often turn to books, or the 'net for ideas. If the 'net were to go away for some reason, I'd sure wish I had more books.
6. Do anything you can to make yourself more independent. The "catch all". :nana:

I remember as a kid going into the homes of relatives who had been through the depression. They had basements lined with shelf after shelf of canned and dry goods....just tons of the stuff. My grand parents (God rest their souls) retained some of this right until the end.

Seeing this worries me. It was very bad then, could it get that bad again? Back then there was a modicum of law and order, self restraint, and honor..you didn't want to be a thief. How are we going to fare as a society lacking those qualities? Will be become animals?

[potter]

That's a valid question, potter.

If you just want a little, you can get it across a counter at a local coin shop.

If you want bigger hunks, the US Gov sells it through licensees.

Or if you are looking to really invest a lot there are huge firms to help you.

It's an international commodity.

If Uncle Sam tries to interfere, the elites of the world will likely hold him down and beat the snot out of him.

One or two ounces at a time is all I could manage, but IMO it would be smart.

[PatrickHenry]

You could try Craig's List or eBay.

I would recommend a face-to-face exchange, though.

Coin shops usually have it in stock.

[Mayberry]

Seeing this worries me. It should. It was very bad then, could it get that bad again? I think we're well on our way there. Back then there was a modicum of law and order, self restraint, and honor..you didn't want to be a thief. How are we going to fare as a society lacking those qualities? Will be become animals? That's what I fear most. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a large city... even a medium sized city if things really take a turn for the worse. Just imagine the looting, roaming gangs of thugs. This happens nowadays over sporting events, can you imagine if those mobs were homeless and hungry? Absolutely frightening.

[lily]

The complete partisan wrangle we have going on in this thread tells me that we will most likely never be able to come together as a nation and deal with the real issues that we face with regard to energy.

I am no fan of burning our food stocks for fuel, but we may have no other choice if the now 27 year old moratorium on drilling off shore on our Atlantic and Pacific coasts is not reconsidered.

Rather than holding up a great big R or D by our positions on this very real problem why don't we look a little deeper and realize that gas costs the same for both Republicans and Democrats and that our so called "leaders" from both sides of the aisle have played a part in crafting the current energy situation.

That's a nice little speech, but you see, you're still complaining about not being able to drill.....which isn't the Democrat's fault......what you should be complaining about is not pushing Detroit to make better fuel economy cars...then we won't have to worry so much about the price of oil, and we won't be burning our food........it was done pretty easily when we converted from leaded to un-leaded gas........but then Detroit wouldn't be in the mess they are now either........also, you can't force people to give up their gas guzzlers.....then they really don't have much to complain about the price of gas.

[lily]

Did anyone catch Exxon's projections the other day? Damned if I can find a link (I wonder why....), but they breezed through the part that showed flat production for the next 4 years, while demand increases 2% a year. Hmmmm.... Peak Oil anyone? She is, but she's going to pay for it by "taking their profits". We need a "beating head against the wall" smiley.

I've heard this one so many times.......you can't take a companies profits, but what you can do, is stop giving them all the tax breaks, especially when they don't use them for what they intended......now if either one of them said, that's how we're going to suspend the gas tax for the summer, it would make some sort of sense......but to just say we're not going to charge you tax for 3 months isn't going to solve a damned thing......in fact it will make matters worse.

[lily]

I remember as a kid going into the homes of relatives who had been through the depression. They had basements lined with shelf after shelf of canned and dry goods....just tons of the stuff. My grand parents (God rest their souls) retained some of this right until the end.

Both my parents and my inlaws were like this. Deep freeze filled to the brim, canned goods covering all nooks and crannies that didn't fit in the fruit celler. I don't know, I think I tend to take after them, but then like I said, raising kids during the last recession taught me.....in fact now my kids laugh and say, when ma dies, I want to inherit her Miricale Whip collection....I don't know what it is about Miracle Whip, whenever it's on sale I buy a jar.

I don't think I've bought oo much in the past few months that hasn't been on sale.

Also, now that I'm getting nostalgic.......it was my mother's rule. None of us girls could get married unless we knew how to bake bread. Her reasoning was, if you had bread, you wouldn't starve.

Seeing this worries me. It was very bad then, could it get that bad again? Back then there was a modicum of law and order, self restraint, and honor..you didn't want to be a thief. How are we going to fare as a society lacking those qualities? Will be become animals?

I also don't think the media is helping too much with this........take the rice shortage.......how many people her honestly eat 150 pounds of rice......yet it's flying off the shelves, just because a few stores put a limit on it. I was teasing my husband we needed to get out share.........we might need it to use for trade, if we run out of money.

[Mayberry]

you can't take a companies profits, but what you can do, is stop giving them all the tax breaks, especially when they don't use them for what they intended They'll just pass on the extra cost to us. Regardless of what anyone wants to say, corporations do not pay tax, we do. Taking oil companies profits or tax breaks to cover the gas tax holiday will only result in prices at the pump going up by the amount of the tax. The whole thing is a stupid idea. Oh well, at the rate things are going in a year or two we'll be back to horse and buggy anyway. Maybe a solar charged electric motorcycle at best. $10 gas will be the death of our economy as we know it, $4 is bad enough.

[lily]

Well, Mayberry........we can agree on one thing....the tax break is stupid. It's just another pacifier, just like the rebate checks.....we can't afford it and it's a bandaide when we really need a toruniquette.

[BoogyMan]

That's a nice little speech, but you see, you're still complaining about not being able to drill.....which isn't the Democrat's fault......what you should be complaining about is not pushing Detroit to make better fuel economy cars...then we won't have to worry so much about the price of oil, and we won't be burning our food........it was done pretty easily when we converted from leaded to un-leaded gas........but then Detroit wouldn't be in the mess they are now either........also, you can't force people to give up their gas guzzlers.....then they really don't have much to complain about the price of gas.

Nice little speech? Did I blame the Democrats alone, NO! I put the blame squarely where it belongs, the whole of the establishment. You are right, I am still complaining about not being able to drill in areas that we SHOULD be able to drill. It is the fault of our government, republicans AND democrats AND special interests AND those who have more interest vested in their political party than in their country as a whole.

Fuel economy is not the only answer, it is a good one, but we still have got to end the moratorium of off-shore drilling in this country so that we can set our own course.

[PatrickHenry]

I am still complaining about not being able to drill in areas that we SHOULD be able to drill.Heh. I like how you get into the oil business by using rhetoric.

"We," indeed! :drool:

[preservanation]

The reason we can't drill lays predominantly on the Dems shoulders.
13 years ago Gore cast the deciding vote which prevented us from drilling in Anwar.
The Dems block drilling everywhere there is oil, yet blame our dependence on foreign oil and lack of supply on the likes of those who wish to increase it.
How they get away with this is beyond me.

[Pookie]

Another thing we're doing, since gas prices are going up and so is food, we've made our garden a hell of a lot bigger. Three times what it was last year. And we started Aidie's garden, twice as big as last year, for them. Our local growers have produce stands, and I've talked to some of them. They said the price at the stand -- since it's right next to or in front of the farms and fields -- won't rise very much at all because they don't have to truck it there.
But produce in grocery stores, they predict, will go way up.
Everything else is, too, already. Local stuff will too.
Purrs,
Pookie

[potter]

The reason we can't drill lays predominantly on the Dems shoulders.
13 years ago Gore cast the deciding vote which prevented us from drilling in Anwar.
The Dems block drilling everywhere there is oil, yet blame our dependence on foreign oil and lack of supply on the likes of those who wish to increase it.
How they get away with this is beyond me.


Jeb blocked drilling off the coast of florida. You think Arnold would allow drilling off California?

A lot of NIMBY going on out there.

[potter]

Another thing we're doing, since gas prices are going up and so is food, we've made our garden a hell of a lot bigger. Three times what it was last year. And we started Aidie's garden, twice as big as last year, for them. Our local growers have produce stands, and I've talked to some of them. They said the price at the stand -- since it's right next to or in front of the farms and fields -- won't rise very much at all because they don't have to truck it there.
But produce in grocery stores, they predict, will go way up.
Everything else is, too, already. Local stuff will too.
Purrs,
Pookie


Be sure you pass royalties on to Monsanto for those GM seeds....

[preservanation]

Ammo...lots of ammo.