PDA

View Full Version : Probable Cause threatened?


Trish
04-25-2008, 12:13 PM
Well this is going to raise a big stink and complicate things greatly. If the original search warrant was obtained using information authorities knew was suspect, there's going to be some severe fall-out from this!

April 24, 2008, 11:50PM
40 more women in sect opt for shelters
Only 7 decide to return to their Eldorado ranch

By JANET ELLIOTT


AUSTIN — Forty women opted Thursday to go to a family violence shelter rather than return to the West Texas ranch where authorities allege children are unsafe because of the polygamist group's practice of "spiritually marrying" underage girls to older men.

Seven of the women who had been staying with their children in public shelters for the past three weeks returned to the Yearning for Zion ranch near Eldorado.

The number of women choosing to go to an undisclosed family violence shelter was a turnaround from last week, when six sought shelter and 51 returned to the isolated compound.

"It was entirely up to them," said Patrick Crimmins, a spokesman for the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services.

As the women boarded separate buses for their chosen destination, they were given a packet explaining how their children would be cared for in coming weeks.

The state will work with all of the mothers, no matter where they went, to ensure they can visit their children, Crimmins said.

The women who were allowed to stay with their children included 17 who have babies under the age of 1. They will be housed at Baptist Children's Ministries in San Antonio, officials there and at Child Protective Services confirmed. The mothers and their infants will be kept away from other residents at the facility.

Sixty-three children also left the San Angelo Coliseum on Thursday. The department again revised its count of children in state custody upward to 462, saying it believes that 25 females who had said they were adults are instead minors.

About 260 children remain in the coliseum and will go to foster group homes as soon as possible, Crimmins said.

Individual hearings sought
Meanwhile, an appeals court agreed to consider arguments Tuesday from a group of mothers who want the state to present evidence on a child-by-child basis to support allegations of abuse or neglect.

The Austin-based 3rd Court of Appeals said it would review state District Judge Barbara Walther's decision to keep all children in state custody after hearing generalized evidence about the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Robert Doggett, a legal aid attorney representing about 48 mothers, said many of the mothers were confined to the coliseum during the two-day hearing, where they were not allowed to consult with attorneys or watch the proceedings.

"Rather than having individualized hearings with actual evidence," Doggett said, "this was a ... cattle call where everyone was presumed to have been physically harmed or to be at risk of physical harm."

Doggett said he will ask the appeals court to order individual hearings for the children in the counties where they are placed in foster care. He also will seek rulings that very young children be kept with their mothers, and that siblings be placed together.

Also Thursday, lawyers for the FLDS and two of its members seized on allegations that probable cause for the warrant to search the ranch may have been based on calls from a Colorado woman with a history of making false abuse reports.

Court records unsealed on Wednesday show that the calls made to a San Angelo domestic violence shelter were made with prepaid mobile phones that had previously been used by Rozita Swinton. The Colorado Springs woman has been charged with making a false report in Colorado and is on probation there for a similar offense.

Texas authorities have characterized her as a person of interest in connection with their search for a purported 16-year-old who called the San Angelo hot line to say she had been physically and sexually abused by her much older "spiritual" husband.

The motion alleges that authorities had spoken to the alleged abuser in Arizona by cell phone before they executed an arrest warrant for him. The man told Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran that he did not know the girl and had not been to Texas in 20 years.

Motion to keep files secret
"Thus, before the search warrant was executed, the officers had been apprised, and even verified, that the only person these officers alleged to be suspected of criminal activity or to pose 'an immediate risk of physical or sexual abuse of a child' was not located on the premises, or even in the state of Texas," said the lawsuit filed by San Antonio attorney Gerald Goldstein.

The motion seeks to restrict the release of any information from documents and records seized at the YFZ property.

The Schleicher County Sheriff's Department said Thursday that Doran would not be available for comment.

But in an interview with the Eldorado Success published April 17, the sheriff said that the abuse report stemming from the hot line calls was "essential" to obtaining the search warrant. Doran said he also provided information from a confidential informant who was a former member of the FLDS, but that person had never been to the YFZ ranch.

Bid for new trial denied
After executing the search warrant April 3, officials said they saw what they believed to be underage pregnant girls and began removing children and women from the ranch.

An affidavit for a second, broader search warrant alleged that investigators found evidence that underage girls were "spiritually married" to older men and forced to have sex.

One young mother told investigators that she was 15 when she gave birth to her first child. Texas law prohibits children under 16 from being married.

CPS investigators said those practices put all girls at risk of sexual abuse and all boys at risk of becoming men who abuse minor girls.

Also Thursday, the head of the FLDS, Warren Jeffs, lost a bid for a new trial. A Utah judge rejected the request from Jeffs, who was convicted in September in southern Utah for his role in arranging the marriage of a 14-year-old girl to an older cousin. He is jailed in Arizona awaiting trial in another case.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5729490.html

preservanation
04-25-2008, 12:21 PM
The more this story unfolds the fishier it smells.
IMO, TX authorities have overstepped the bounds, especially the incarceration of minor children when no crime was committed be them, forced DNA samples and separating children from mothers and awarding them to the state via foster homes (where we all know that NO abuse ever takes place :roll eyes: ). This seems to be more than pushing the boundaries of our Constitution, especially now that it seems the initial phone call (on which the whole warrant hinged) has been established as a 'prank' and the male subject has never been anywhere near that ranch. A quick search should have been able to establish that...he was in contact with a parole officer in another state for five years.
Damn!

4Reaganomics
04-25-2008, 12:31 PM
This is more going outside the lines of our constitution, it is a trample on it.

Trish
04-25-2008, 12:38 PM
This is all going to hinge on whether or not the authorities knew that the original phone call was not real prior to the first search warrant being issued. If they didn't know, then they had more than enough probable cause for taking the action they did. If they did know, likely everything they found after that point is going to be inadmissable no matter what kinds of abuse they may have turned up.

I

preservanation
04-25-2008, 12:50 PM
You're absolutely correct, Trish, but should 'due diligence' come into play as well?

Truth_and_Power
04-25-2008, 01:04 PM
This is more going outside the lines of our constitution, it is a trample on it.

Oh wow how original blatant abuse of probable cause. Gosh, never seen that before. I'm sure every black person who's been traffic stopped before is so surprised.

PostmodernProphet
04-25-2008, 01:53 PM
Probable Cause threatened?

no, because the hearings being conducted are not criminal proceedings, they are Child Protection Agency hearings to determine custody of the kids.....thus the rules of criminal procedure and the accompanying constitutional protections related to criminal procedure do not apply.......

AlanC
04-25-2008, 02:55 PM
If the information in this article is correct, the call went to a shelter, not the authorities. So it is the shelter telling the cops that they had reason to believe a crime was being committed.

That is probable cause for the cops. It all comes down to the people filing for the search warrant acting in good faith on the information they received. It still appears that is the case.

Trish
04-25-2008, 03:00 PM
You can bet the FDLS lawyers are going to argue otherwise - that there was no probable cause and thus the search warrant, and anything it uncovered which led to the second, broader warrant and whatever IT uncovered are inadmissable.

AlanC
04-25-2008, 04:12 PM
Let draw a comparison. A person calls a sucide hotline, as a prank, and alleges they live at an address and that they are in the process of committing suicide and then hang up.

The hotline has no way of telling if the call is genuine or not so they call 9-1-1 and relay the information that there is a possible suicide in progress at the given address.

Cops and ambulance are dispatched to the address. They find the lights are out and no one answers repeated attempts to get them to come to the door.

Do the officers at this point have probable cause to enter the house?

The answer is yes.

If upon entry, instead of finding a suicide victim, they find a meth lab in plain sight in the living room, are they able to affect the arrest of everyone living in the home?

The answer is yes.

If they determined, after entry that no suicide was taking place and that the owners of the house were asleep, but they then searched the premises and found a meth lab in the basement, would it be a legal search?

The answer is no, it would not.

If its later discovered that the call was a fake call and they identify the caller, does that negate their initial probable cause to enter the home?

No, it doesn't.

But if, prior to the entry of the house, they recieved information from the hotline folks that the call had been a phoney and did not originate from the house they were at, could they have gone inside anyway?

The answer is no, their probable cause no longer existed.

Would the meth lab defense attorney try to argue unlawful search in the first, legal entry?

Most likely, and he would lose the motion.

penmyst
05-05-2008, 07:21 AM
There is no such thing as constitutional rights anymore when it comes to drugs or "the children" in America.

All of this is done under the totalitarian mindset of our current government, and frankly the vast majority of our ignorant populace. "The State" decides what is best for you as an individual and the collective you as well. Cradle to the grave. Fascism and totalitarianism go hand in hand. That's what we have in America today. George Carlin was right when he said fascism will come to America in the form of a smiley face, even if he was entirely wrong on who would be behind it.

It's too scary to think about. So most don't. Who is winning American Idol this year?

Pookie
05-05-2008, 09:30 AM
Trish, that article is scary. Only seven went back? Hmmm....makes me wonder. Looks like some of them were "freed" so to speak. This is going to be interesting to watch.
Purrs,
Pookie

Osborn F. Enready
05-05-2008, 10:01 PM
penmyst, great post.