McCain Introduces Watered down Version of the 21st Century GI Bill

[NDNdancer]

The "straight talk express" looks like it's trying to find the road to hell. I don't know how this guy can sleep at night.

From VoteVets.org

This week, Senators John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Richard Burr offered a watered-down substitute to the 21st Century GI Bill, which was introduced by Senators Jim Webb and Chuck Hagel.

We need you to write to your Senators telling them that the McCain bill is unacceptable.

The Post 9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act (S.22), the Webb-Hagel bill that we support, now has 57 supporters in the Senate, from both sides of the aisle. With three more supporters, this bill would be filibuster-proof, and guaranteed to get to the President's desk. Senator McCain's bill could split the Senate, undermining the common-sense legislation that Senators Webb and Hagel offered. In doing so, it also undermines America's veterans.

Here's how.

1) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation creates a flat education benefit, not taking into account the cost of state colleges where veterans live. This would mean veterans in states where the cost of education is higher than the benefit would have go to into debt to get an education, or uproot themselves and their families to move to a place where the benefit would cover college. In many cases, the McCain bill won't even cover half the cost of college. The Webb-Hagel Bill determines the education benefit based on the highest state college tuition in a veterans' home state, allowing veterans to come home and attend college, without upheaval in their lives.

2) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation creates second-class veterans, by offering those who serve in the military for 12 years the chance to transfer their education benefits to their children. This says to a veteran who serves for two years and loses both of his legs in combat that his service isn't as valuable as someone who has served for longer.

3) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation leaves the National Guard and Reserve out in the cold. In the current conflicts, the National Guard and Reserve have served faithfully alongside their active duty compatriots, and deserve equal benefits. Yet, the McCain bill does nothing to reward our Guard and Reservists for their cumulative service. Under the McCain bill, over 160,000 members of the Guard and Reserves who have done more than one tour in Iraq or Afghanistan would get no credit towards an education for their additional sacrifice.

A fair education benefit is a sacred promise made to America's military after World War II. That promise has been allowed to become outdated and tarnished. Only the Webb-Hagel bill will restore its luster. And, for that reason, it is the only acceptable bill to America's veterans. Any Senator who joins Senator McCain on his bill does not support our veterans, and it is important that you let your Senator know that, right away.

[Deadshot]

I am not suprised in the least about this bill.

[PostmodernProphet]

The Webb-Hagel Bill determines the education benefit based on the highest state college tuition in a veterans' home state, allowing veterans to come home and attend college, without upheaval in their lives.

and unless every GI went to the highest tuition-ed school, wouldn't it be a waste of taxpayer money?......

2) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation creates second-class veterans, by offering those who serve in the military for 12 years the chance to transfer their education benefits to their children. This says to a veteran who serves for two years and loses both of his legs in combat that his service isn't as valuable as someone who has served for longer.

isn't the goal to increase re-enlistment?......it would seem logical to offer better benefits to those who serve 12 years than to those who only serve 2 years......

3) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation leaves the National Guard and Reserve out in the cold. In the current conflicts, the National Guard and Reserve have served faithfully alongside their active duty compatriots, and deserve equal benefits. Yet, the McCain bill does nothing to reward our Guard and Reservists for their cumulative service. Under the McCain bill, over 160,000 members of the Guard and Reserves who have done more than one tour in Iraq or Afghanistan would get no credit towards an education for their additional sacrifice.

??...how many months of service in Iraq do you believe should be treated as the equivalent of 12 years of service......

[Deadshot]

So serving in the National Guard and then being called up and serving 4 tours in Iraq doesn't mean shit?

I wonder how the Military likes this bill?

I would remind you that the FIRST G.I. Bill offered benefits to ANYONE who served in WII, regardless of time served.

My how things have changed.

[NDNdancer]

and unless every GI went to the highest tuition-ed school, wouldn't it be a waste of taxpayer money?......
The bill provides "up to" that amount. So, if a GI wanted to go to a highest tuition school, he could.

isn't the goal to increase re-enlistment?......it would seem logical to offer better benefits to those who serve 12 years than to those who only serve 2 years......
In this war, the only ones who only serve 2 years have been wounded. They don't let anyone out after only two years of service. Heard of "stop-gap"?

??...how many months of service in Iraq do you believe should be treated as the equivalent of 12 years of service......
How many of those in the National Guard only serve a few months? In this Occupation, the reserves and national guard have been heavily utilized and now we're going to deny them benefits? This Occupation is much different then any other conflict and the metrics must be as well.

[potter]

I also cannot comprehend why the guards and reserves were left out.....

[AlanC]

Currently no one can pass their GI benefits to their children. This is meant to be an addition to assist those who devote their whole careers to the Country. Check out the benefits that accrue to those disabled in combat. They far and away exceed the benefits that go to non disabled soldiers whether they are in for a few years or their entire career.

Trying to isolate one item and say it makes Guardsmen second class citizens is a bit disengenuous.

[PostmodernProphet]

How many of those in the National Guard only serve a few months? In this Occupation, the reserves and national guard have been heavily utilized and now we're going to deny them benefits? This Occupation is much different then any other conflict and the metrics must be as well.

okay, let me ask the question of you this way....if you were running a business and you had employees who had stuck with you for 12 years, would you treat them exactly the same way you treated the people who had been with you for months?......

[potter]

okay, let me ask the question of you this way....if you were running a business and you had employees who had stuck with you for 12 years, would you treat them exactly the same way you treated the people who had been with you for months?......


These days I don't think that makes any difference. There is no loyalty for long term employees any more.

[Elrathin]

You got that right Potter. Now the mentality is to let someone work for you for 15 years and then find a way to fire them so you don't have to pay a retirement pension.

[ViolaLee]

McCain will be known for undermining the troops.

Good show.

[ECW]

okay, let me ask the question of you this way....if you were running a business and you had employees who had stuck with you for 12 years, would you treat them exactly the same way you treated the people who had been with you for months?......

You treat all your troops the same regardless of time served. The pay package that they get every two weeks is the compensation for their time served. The service to your country involves sacrifice, the disruption of personal lives and postponing of one's goals in order to make that sacrifice. Is a 12 year desk jockey more valuable than a troop who serves a front line tour under fire? If you can say "Yes" to that question than this bill is your cup of tea.

Therein lies the problem with this sham bill: you cannot come up with a scenario that justifies all of the different situations that come up in the military. You, therefore, should cover ALL service members equally. Four years of service equals a four year college education.

The McCain bill is an attempt to encourage retention when, in reality, it will discourage many from even enlisting because they will not want to commit to a 12 year enlistment to get partial college benefits. They would be better off signing up for the shortest tour possible and using their service record to get hired in a business that will pay them to go to school and become a better employee. At least they won't be getting shot at while they "earn" their college bennies and their school will be fully paid for WHILE they earn a living.

John McCain must not think very highly of our troops if this is the kind of half-assed response he had to the Webb bill. Leaving Guard and Reserve troops out of the equation altogether sounds cheap to me. Just like a Neocon to play favorites and blame it on the lack of money.

[PostmodernProphet]

Is a 12 year desk jockey more valuable than a troop who serves a front line tour under fire? If you can say "Yes" to that question than this bill is your cup of tea.

is a twelve year veteran who has been under fire a hundred times more valuable than one who has been in the service for a two years and has been under fire once?......

[ECW]

Both should be afforded the opportunity to go to school for their sacrifice. Under this proposed system only those who have put in 12 years get a fraction of their school paid. My contention is if you put on the uniform and complete your enrollment, no matter what that enrollment is, school should be on the house. It's the least this country can do to show the value of their fighting forces. Anything less is cheap and shortchanges the very people McCain "claims" to support.

[AlanC]

Both should be afforded the opportunity to go to school for their sacrifice. Under this proposed system only those who have put in 12 years get a fraction of their school paid. My contention is if you put on the uniform and complete your enrollment, no matter what that enrollment is, school should be on the house. It's the least this country can do to show the value of their fighting forces. Anything less is cheap and shortchanges the very people McCain "claims" to support.

That's not true. The 12 year requirement is applied to a new benefit which is the ability to transfer their GI education benefit to their children, as I read it.

It does nothing to limit the education benefit to those serving out their enlistment of less than 12 years.

[Elrathin]

Here's how.

1) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation creates a flat education benefit, not taking into account the cost of state colleges where veterans live.

This is already being done. Nothing new here.


2) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation creates second-class veterans, by offering those who serve in the military for 12 years the chance to transfer their education benefits to their children. This says to a veteran who serves for two years and loses both of his legs in combat that his service isn't as valuable as someone who has served for longer.

Not true, it just gives another benefit to someone who has put in more time. For instance I get commissary and base privileges because I retired, those that didn't retire do not get that. There are always extra benefits to those that put in a certain amount of time over others.


3) The McCain-Graham-Burr legislation leaves the National Guard and Reserve out in the cold. In the current conflicts, the National Guard and Reserve have served faithfully alongside their active duty compatriots, and deserve equal benefits. Yet, the McCain bill does nothing to reward our Guard and Reservists for their cumulative service. Under the McCain bill, over 160,000 members of the Guard and Reserves who have done more than one tour in Iraq or Afghanistan would get no credit towards an education for their additional sacrifice.

This is already being done, this is status quo. I don't necessarily agree with it, but nothing has changed.

Nothing is being done differently than it is now except that for someone who has put in 12 or more years would get the opportunity to transfer that to their kid.

[PostmodernProphet]

Under this proposed system only those who have put in 12 years get a fraction of their school paid. .

????....that isn't true at all....the issue is whether twelve year veterans can apply their credits to their children's education......