Russian fighter shoots down an american-made spy plane over Abkhazia?

[December]

Are there any experts here who can tell what jet it is on the video?



1. Video produced by the Georgian Air Defence - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c4ZD2iQ1aI

Russia says it was a well-organized provocation. Number of countries still have Russian MIGs, and USA is one of those countries.
Besides, it's not even clear from that video what kind of jet it was, it could be an F-18.

2. Russian video - http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/23724/video


3. And the al-Jazeera video (which is the same but with some comments) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkeCvQ47bDY


MIG-29

http://www.sirviper.com/fighters/mig-29/a/mig-29a_10.jpg

F-18

http://aeroindia.org/files/images/f18ajg6.preview.jpg

[potter]

Isn't Abkhazia the prison where they put wayward wizards in the Potter series?

[December]

Pookie, what would you say? You used to be a pilot....

[Drocket]

Isn't Abkhazia the prison where they put wayward wizards in the Potter series?

ROFL. That was exactly my thought too when I read the title...

[December]

Maybe it was MIG-29. I cannot tell - I am not an expert.
But the Russian officer in RT video says that number of countries, INCLUDING USA, have Russian MIGs.

Watch RT video - http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/23724/video


Besides, Georgia said that none of its planes are missing. What does it mean? The Georgian officials cannot get their story straight or they just didn't prepare on all levels for the provocation?

[December]

Isn't Abkhazia the prison where they put wayward wizards in the Potter series?

Do you have a quote, potter?

[December]

Pookie, you said many times that you were a pilot, and that you've spent more than 20 years in the army.

So can you comment on the video?

[David]

As I've seen posted on another forum: "Way to go Russia! You managed to shoot down a slow moving, unarmed, flying camcorder!"

:madlaugh:

The Russian Federation shows itself to be a joke more everyday.

[December]

As I've seen posted on another forum: "Way to go Russia! You managed to shoot down a slow moving, unarmed, flying camcorder!"

:madlaugh:

The Russian Federation shows itself to be a joke more everyday.


David, if you collect garbage all over the Internet, please, don't bring it here, keep it to yourself.
OK?

David, you've found some goofy comment from a teenager and you rushed to post it here and you laugh at it.
Besides, you missed the point. So you are laughing at yourself.

Watch the video - it says that most likely the whole incident was staged by Georgia with America's help - http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/23724/video

[Trish]

Why is David's "garbage" less worthy of posting than yours? You know the old saying? One man's garbage is another man's treasures! I'm betting most folks can figure out which is which.

[December]

Why is David's "garbage" less worthy of posting than yours? You know the old saying? One man's garbage is another man's treasures! I'm betting most folks can figure out which is which.

Trish, I posted official INFORMATION, and provided the sources.

So if you don't see the difference between our posts than you need to ask some one for a help to figure out what is information and what is Copy-and-Pasted spam from other forums.

[Trish]

Yes, December - I saw your source. Which is the point - one man's "source" is another man's "spam." One man's "truth" is another man's "garbage."

In other words, I'm betting that most people will view your source and the information therein as less than *cough* noteworthy.

[PostmodernProphet]

omigorsh....you guys don't think the US is spying on Russia, do you?........

[Pookie]

Pookie, what would you say? You used to be a pilot....

That's not a spy plane, and it's a fighter.
There isn't anything on the news about it here, but I'll keep looking.
I'll call my contacts at the Pentagon. If this aircraft was, in fact, shot down over Russian air space, we will know, and I promise I'll check on this.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, December, I appreciate it.
Purrs,
Pookie

[Pookie]

Pookie, you said many times that you were a pilot, and that you've spent more than 20 years in the army.

So can you comment on the video?

Oh for crap's sake. That's a MiG. You don't know the difference? Stop bugging me. This is not one of our fighters, which you incorrectly identified as an F-18. Seems you are mistaken.
There's your answer.
Pookie

[December]

Oh for crap's sake. That's a MiG. You don't know the difference? Stop bugging me. This is not one of our fighters, which you incorrectly identified as an F-18. Seems you are mistaken.

Watch the video - http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/23724/video
There is an interview with officer of the Russian AF who said that it could be F-18.
He also said that US has Russian MIGs. Is it true?

March 18, 2008

Georgian spy plane shot down over Abkhazia?
The breakaway Georgian Republic of Abkhazia claims to have shot down an unmanned Georgian air-reconnaissance vehicle.
http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/22296

[AlanC]

December, watch the video yourself. The Georgian General shows the escape route of the fighter back into Russian air space.

I don't think an F-18 in Russian air space would have gone on without comment by the Russians. It's also doubtful that it would have not been noticed, even if all the pilots were on leave. A claim by the way, which I find incredible on the surface of it.

[Easy90]

You guys are funny to read. Good stuff! Hey Pook...what kind of "Army pilot" were you wuz?

[AlanC]

You guys are funny to read. Good stuff! Hey Pook...what kind of "Army pilot" were you wuz?

Think man, what kind of things does the Army fly a lot of?

[Questerr]

Watch the video - http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/23724/video
There is an interview with officer of the Russian AF who said that it could be F-18.
He also said that US has Russian MIGs. Is it true?


Yes, the US has MiG's. We have like 5 of them or some similar really small number. We use them for asymetric capability training for our dogfighting schools. We don't use them in operations.

From the video it is definately a MiG, not an F-18.

[Questerr]

Think man, what kind of things does the Army fly a lot of?

Helicopters and fixed wing transports (at least the Guard does). Oh, and fixed wing intel collection platforms.

[AlanC]

Yes, the US has MiG's. We have like 5 of them or some similar really small number. We use them for asymetric capability training for our dogfighting schools. We don't use them in operations.

From the video it is definately a MiG, not an F-18.

We used to have only those that Russian and Communist pilots flew into somewhere like South Korea to defect.

Since the collaps of the Soviet Union, we were able to just purchase some from former Socialist countries, like Georgia.

But they are all in Nevada where the Air Force does their Red Flag training.

[Pookie]

Think man, what kind of things does the Army fly a lot of?


A bad one. I crashed a lot. :madlaugh:
Purrs,
Pookie

[December]

Since the collaps of the Soviet Union, we were able to just purchase some from former Socialist countries, like Georgia.

But they are all in Nevada where the Air Force does their Red Flag training.

So the Russian AF officer was correct than when he said that US had Russian MIGs.

The RT video - http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/23724/video

[Pookie]

Not flying ones. What is up with you?
I don't get you. I think you are trying to bug us with propaganda so that you can make some point or another.
Maybe it would be easier for you to make a point, ok?
Pookie

[AlanC]

Not flying ones. What is up with you?
I don't get you. I think you are trying to bug us with propaganda so that you can make some point or another.
Maybe it would be easier for you to make a point, ok?
Pookie


Actually, they do fly. Since about 2000 I think we have had Mig 29s that are used as part of the training force for Air Force red flag training. I don't know how many are currently in use. At one time it was six.

Sometime in the late 1990s, the US purchased 21 Mig 29s from Moldova. These planes were purchased with a full load of both spare parts and armaments such as air to air missles. So I am sure they are all operational or capable of being operational.

[AlanC]

Actually, after I checked, it looks like the Mig 29s that take part in Red Flag are part of the German Air Force.

I'm not sure what the US did with those 21 planes they purchased.

This link explains it better (http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=41172)

[Pookie]

I meant flying ones as in service. Geez, don't you know this? MiGs are not in service in our defence, just for training. We have never had to use any Migs in our Air Force as a positive defense.Wake up, guys, ok?
Pookie

Crap....this is such a waste of typing. Get it now, people?

[AlanC]

I meant flying ones as in service. Geez, don't you know this? MiGs are not in service in our defence, just for training. We have never had to use any Migs in our Air Force as a positive defense.Wake up, guys, ok?
Pookie

Crap....this is such a waste of typing. Get it now, people?

I don't think I said anything different, did I?

[Pookie]

When a military person says not flying ones, they mean not in service TO THE US. Flying means in secondary service, ok?
I failed to explain, I am sorry. Drones are flying, but not manned.
If we were to have a MiG in regular service, this MiG would have a connotation and orders for the rest of us NOT to shoot it down.
This language is quite different, ok?
And it WOULD NOT have cleared our airspace without permission.
Okay, with that said, when I was in Germany, often aircraft would violate airspace. (1983-1986, the Cold War, has everydamnbody forgotten?)
You want us to raise hell then and start something?
No. And gather information and mark my words: Nothing will happen adversely to any country. People can wet their pants all they want, but watch...this won't amount to a damn thing of consequence.
No.
Let the Russians raise hell, too bad. That wasn't an F-18. Bah!
Purrs,
Pookie

[Pookie]

Plus, this is just propaganda.
Pfft!
Pookie

[December]

That wasn't an F-18. Bah!
Purrs,
Pookie

How can you tell? I see a fighter jet but I cannot see which one it is....
Was it MIG-29? Or was it F-18? video - http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/23724/video

[December]

Abkhazia shows fragments of fifth downed Georgian drone

09/ 05/ 2008


SUKHUMI, May 9 (RIA Novosti) - Georgia's breakaway republic of Abkhazia displayed on Friday fragments of a Georgian surveillance drone it allegedly downed on Thursday.

Abkhazia said it shot down the fifth Georgian surveillance drone since the beginning of the year over the village of Gudava in the Ochamchir district at about 17:10 Moscow time (13:10 GMT). Georgia has denied the report.

"Georgia has repeatedly ignored our warnings, and is deliberately continuing to make the situation worse by risking civilian lives. This is another proof of aggressiveness on the part of official Tbilisi and its reluctance to implement prior agreements," Garri Kupalba, Abkhazia's deputy defense minister, who showed the fragments, quoted from the ministry's statement.

Abkhazia earlier claimed its air defenses had shot down four Georgian surveillance drones this year, two on March 18 and April 20, and a further two on May 4.
The Georgian Foreign Ministry called Abkhazia's claims "absurd," and said they were aimed at escalating tensions in the region. Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili also denied the report on Thursday.
"I have just spoken with the [Georgian] defense minister," Saakashvili told reporters. "No plane has been downed."

http://en.rian.ru/world/20080509/106987966.html

[Pookie]

That is Georgia's problem. We have no missing planes and no missing pilots. Go figure.
If you can't tell the difference between a drone and a fighter, you really need to re-educate yourself. There is a HUGE difference. Google it.
You ask ME, a 22-year veteran, HOW I can tell the difference? Oh God, please, educate yourself.
Purrs,
Pookie

[lieexposer]

As I've seen posted on another forum: "Way to go Russia! You managed to shoot down a slow moving, unarmed, flying camcorder!"

:madlaugh:

The Russian Federation shows itself to be a joke more everyday.

Interesting comment and for what it's worth, nothing, The Russian mig 29's with Russian pilots would come out on top against the US' best planes and pilots in a dogfight. But that's not even close to the issue here. The issue is of course the question of whether Russia did it and how the US is going to use it for demonization and propaganda efforts.

This could be the beginning of the diversion which is necessary to change the stakes in Iraq and the stakes with Iran. Watch closely.

[December]

If you can't tell the difference between a drone and a fighter, you really need to re-educate yourself. There is a HUGE difference. Google it.


I didn't say that I cannot see the difference between a drone and a fighter.
I was talking about the difference between Russian MIG-29 and American F-18 fighters.

So my question remains - how can you, a 22 years US Air Force veteran, see that it is a MIG-29 on the video and not F-18?


Are there any experts here who can tell what jet it is on the video?



1. Video produced by the Georgian Air Defence - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c4ZD2iQ1aI

Russia says it was a well-organized provocation. Number of countries still have Russian MIGs, and USA is one of those countries.
Besides, it's not even clear from that video what kind of jet it was, it could be an F-18.

2. Russian video - http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/23724/video


3. And the al-Jazeera video (which is the same but with some comments) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkeCvQ47bDY


MIG-29

http://www.sirviper.com/fighters/mig-29/a/mig-29a_10.jpg

F-18

http://aeroindia.org/files/images/f18ajg6.preview.jpg

http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=12382

[December]

Russian Air Force commander backs idea of Abkhazia military base

15/ 05/ 2008

MOSCOW, May 15 (RIA Novosti) - The creation of a Russian military base in Georgia's breakaway republic of Abkhazia would increase the security of Russia's borders in the region, Russia's Air Force commander said on Thursday.
Abkhaz President Sergei Bagapsh proposed on Wednesday that Russia open a military base on its territory.

"If a corresponding political decision is made, it will only be to the benefit of air defense," Colonel-General Alexander Zelin said.

On Wednesday Georgia's Foreign Ministry announced its withdrawal from a 1995 CIS unified air defense agreement signed by a number of former Soviet republics, including Russia.
Zelin also reiterated that Russian military aircraft never shot down a Georgian surveillance drone over the territory of the unrecognized republic.
"I can once again confirm that Russian Air Force planes never participated in this incident," he said.

On April 20, Georgia accused Russia of shooting down a drone over Abkhazia, a claim Russia flatly denied, calling the video footage provided by Georgia a fake.

Abkhazia claims its air defenses had shot down seven Georgian surveillance drones this year, one on May 8, two on March 18 and April 20, two on May 4 and further two on May 12.

Relations between Moscow and Tbilisi have drastically deteriorated since the Kremlin called for closer ties between Moscow and the two Georgian breakaway republics of Abkhazia and South Ossetia in mid-April.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20080515/107451768.html

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1585000/images/_1586409_abkhazia3_map300.gif

Abkhazia (pronounced /æbˈkeɪʒə/ or /æbˈkɑziə/, Abkhaz: Аҧсны Apsny, Georgian: აფხაზეთი Apkhazeti or Abkhazeti, Russian: Абха́зия Abhazia) is a region in the Caucasus.
It is a de facto independent republic, with no international recognition.

Abkhazia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazia)

[December]

Pookie, I didn't say that I cannot see the difference between a drone and a fighter.
I was talking about the difference between Russian MIG-29 and American F-18 fighters.

So my question remains - how can you tell from this video that it is MIG-29 on the and not F-18?

[December]

Georgia bombards Russia – with protest notes

http://russiatoday.ru/media/news/8/484416449edaf.jpg

Georgia's Foreign Ministry has sent a protest note to Russia's envoy in Tbilisi over the arrival in Abkhazia of troops from the Russian Corps of Engineers. It’s the Georgian government’s 38th protest note to Russia this year and its 59th in all.

http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/25615/video

[Wndrtch]

Isn't Abkhazia the prison where they put wayward wizards in the Potter series?

Shouldn't you know that already, potter?

[December]

Shouldn't you know that already, potter?

Yeah........ Potter, do you have a quote or two?