NPR says 160K republicans registered to vote in the democratic primary.

[Buck Laser]

One supposes they were following the advice of their mentor, Rush Limbaugh. At this point in the evening, Clinton holds a 53-47 point lead over Obama. I don't know the vote totals right now, but it seems obvious that unless she wins by {b]more[/b] than 160,000 votes, it's just a pyrrhic victory. Those republicans aren't gonna vote for her in November. So unless her majority goes over 160,000 votes, it's just a farce.

[lily]

I think it's a legit lead, Buck. She was expected to win PA., but by double didgits........so %6 isn't really that much.

[Pookie]

Well, ok, this will unravel as it will. Let's see what happens. Let's not jump to conclusions.
This is what is so fascinating about the election year. It may be full of surprises, or not.
So...we go on and see what happens.
Purrs,
Pookie

[4Reaganomics]

OVER 200K baby

[ECW]

All this means is that the media pays attention to Democrats for six more weeks while John McCain is doing what? I don't know he's not in this news cycle.

[ViolaLee]

Leave it to the Republicans to pull slimy dirty dishonest tricks.

[preservanation]

Hee, heee.
Operation Chaos is a stunning success!
Now all you OC operatives, don't forget to change your affiliation back to Republican before the cut off date so you can support the GOP.
Carry on...

Heee, hee.

[PostmodernProphet]

Leave it to the Republicans to pull slimy dirty dishonest tricks.

lol.......January 10, 2008

Michigan Democrats should vote for Mitt Romney, because if Mitt wins, Democrats win.

And we want Romney in, because the more Republican candidates we have fighting it out, trashing each other with negative ads and spending tons of money, the better it is for us. We want Mitt to stay in the race, and to do that, we need him to win in Michigan.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/10/2713/87225/55/434206

that took me about 45 seconds to find on Google......../grins.....

[preservanation]

This happens on both sides all the time.
Selective outrage.
When Dems do it, "All fair in love, war and politics."
When Repubs do it, "It's slimy, dishonest and boarderline criminal". (Where have I heard that before?)
Ohio DNC operatives were even looking to prosecute those who were voting for Hillary by "looking into their soul". Reminds me of the Spanish Inquisition.

Point of interest...In WI many (R) voted for Nader in 2000.
Hee,hee

[PostmodernProphet]

All this means is that the media pays attention to Democrats for six more weeks while John McCain is doing what? I don't know he's not in this news cycle.

I expect he and the Republican Party are busy building their campaign structure in the 11-17 (depending on who you ask) swing states that will be key to deciding the electoral votes......

[potter]

This happens on both sides all the time.
Selective outrage.
When Dems do it, "All fair in love, war and politics."
When Repubs do it, "It's slimy, dishonest and boarderline criminal". (Where have I heard that before?)
Ohio DNC operatives were even looking to prosecute those who were voting for Hillary by "looking into their soul". Reminds me of the Spanish Inquisition.

Point of interest...In WI many (R) voted for Nader in 2000.
Hee,hee


Sad isn't it...that Americans have become so dishonest and dishonerable that they will cheat and lie to achieve any objective.

[Elrathin]

Sad isn't it...that Americans have become so dishonest and dishonerable that they will cheat and lie to achieve any objective.

Yep, the founding fathers would be puking at the actions of some on the left and right in regards to voting fraud.

[potter]

Yep, the founding fathers would be puking at the actions of some on the left and right in regards to voting fraud.

Unfortunately it's not just voting fraud....the lying and cheating permeats every corner of our society.

[DamnYankee]

Sad isn't it...that Americans have become so dishonest and dishonerable that they will cheat and lie to achieve any objective.

You can thank both the liberal party and Republican Party for that.

[Elrathin]

You can thank both the liberal party and Republican Party for that.

And conservatives. They do it as well.

[potter]

You can thank both the liberal party and Republican Party for that.

I believe there is some truth to that.

[potter]

And conservatives. They do it as well.

I don't consider run of the mill conservatives to be the problem just as I don't consider run of the mill liberals to the problem. I think as a whole that have a lot of the same wants and needs, and left to themselves without political influence they could work out compromises. It's the extremes of both ends that have taken over and "created" many of the so called problems that now divide this nation. It's done willfully and with purpose. Divide and conquer....

[Elrathin]

I don't consider run of the mill conservatives to be the problem just as I don't consider run of the mill liberals to the problem. I think as a whole that have a lot of the same wants and needs, and left to themselves without political influence they could work out compromises. It's the extremes of both ends that have taken over and "created" many of the so called problems that now divide this nation. It's done willfully and with purpose. Divide and conquer....

My point is that no one side is perfect little angels in this mess.

[Buck Laser]

Clinton's winning margin was about 257K. Take out the 160K who crossed over, and she has a margin of about 57K. That's about the margin I actually expected her to get. I don't recall ever saying the crossover vote was dishonest. I just wanted to figure what effect it would have.

I'd cheerfully cross over to a republican primary to vote for the weaker candidate in a close election. As I recall, I've actually done so on a couple of occasions in the last 50 years of voting. I've also voted for republicans in a few elections as the better or more qualified candidates.

[brien]

This primary voting system is one that both major political parties have agreed to in many states, so it may be a classic consequence of "be careful what you wish for, because you just may get it".

People should not be made to declare anything, except their proof of residency, when they vote. Voting is an extremely private matter and the fact a state forces one to declare "party loyalty" in a primary election is offensive to free and open elections. Don't like primaries because of crossovers, figure a better way that is fair and equitable to all candidates, and get it done.

[NDNdancer]

By hook or by crook eh?.....

I hope the superdelegates take this into account when making their decisions.

I really wish we had more then two parties. The Libertarians made a good run for it, kudos to them for trying, not an easy thing to do in the US.

I want more choices damnit.

[Wndrtch]

One supposes they were following the advice of their mentor, Rush Limbaugh. At this point in the evening, Clinton holds a 53-47 point lead over Obama. I don't know the vote totals right now, but it seems obvious that unless she wins by {b]more[/b] than 160,000 votes, it's just a pyrrhic victory. Those republicans aren't gonna vote for her in November. So unless her majority goes over 160,000 votes, it's just a farce.

Buck, had Hillary had some class, she would have stepped aside some time ago, and let Obama and the DNC start campaigning against McCain. Nixon had enough charecter to step down to save the Republican party. Does Hillary have the stones to do the same?

I doubt it.

[Buck Laser]

Buck, had Hillary had some class, she would have stepped aside some time ago, and let Obama and the DNC start campaigning against McCain. Nixon had enough charecter to step down to save the Republican party. Does Hillary have the stones to do the same?

I doubt it.
I'm a very strong Obama supporter, but I don't see any need for Clinton to step down. It's mostly a fairy tale that her remaining in the race is doing great harm to the democrats. So far as I can see, she's made it clear that she'll support Obama when he wins the nomination, as Obama would support her if she should get it.

But I do want her to drop out--to save money, to allow the real campaign to begin, and to correct the pundits who keep claiming she's divisive. Why am I so optimistic? Simple, really--in every state where a democratic primary has occurred, democratic voter registration has surpassed ALL previous records. The chaos stirrers like Preserv would rather that no one notice that little fact. But they just can't get around it, so they try to ignore it and change the subject. :madlaugh:

[4Reaganomics]

She might say she'll support Obama, but McCain winning is her ticket to being the front runner in 2012, something she'd much rather have than 8 years of Barack

[brien]

I'm a very strong Obama supporter, but I don't see any need for Clinton to step down. It's mostly a fairy tale that her remaining in the race is doing great harm to the democrats. So far as I can see, she's made it clear that she'll support Obama when he wins the nomination, as Obama would support her if she should get it.

:

Even though each candidate will support each other, it may not be so for the supporters of each candidate, ie the voters at large.

Let's postulate that the Dems go to the convention and the superdelegates get to determine the nominee. Let's say that HRC persuades a majorityof the superdelegates that she is more electable than Obama, and she gets the nomination, while Obama was the clear winner of the popular vote in the primaries.

Do you seriously think that there won't be a split in the party, whereby the Obama supporters will claim that HRC stole the nomination. No amount of party reconcilliation will fully mend that split.

The people of PA already show signs of not supporting either Democratic candidate should either one get the nomination. I think the figures showed 26% of the HRC supporters would either vote for McCain of merely stay home and not vote. The figure was lower for Obama supporters, but it was double digit around 13% stating they would merely sit the election out or vote for John McCain.

Here are some stats:

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Apr22/0,4670,PrimaryExitPollGlance,00.html

"HOW WILL IT ALL END?

Just over half of those voting saw Obama as the eventual winner of the nomination. Even one in five Clinton supporters felt Obama would eventually win. But more Obama supporters said they would be satisfied if Clinton won than vice versa. The animosity between the two camps led more than one in seven Obama supporters to say they would vote for Republican John McCain if Clinton were the nominee. Even more Clinton supporters, one in four, said they would defect.
___

From a partial sample of 2,217 Democratic primary voters conducted in 40 precincts across Pennsylvania by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International for The Associated Press and television networks. Margin of sampling error plus or minus three percentage points."

Conclusion: All is not well in Demo land.

The other "Elephant" or should I say "Ass / Donkey" in the room is whether Fla and Mi votes will be counted by the DNC. This could put HRC over the top. Will the Obama supporters accept this or reject it as a foul ball. This race will go to the Convention so long as HRC continues to win in the future primaries. What drama!

[lily]

Why am I so optimistic? Simple, really--in every state where a democratic primary has occurred, democratic voter registration has surpassed ALL previous records. The chaos stirrers like Preserv would rather that no one notice that little fact. But they just can't get around it, so they try to ignore it and change the subject. :madlaugh:

I may be naive, but I think with the sate the country is in now, some of those crossovers just might be new Democrats.

[lily]

She might say she'll support Obama, but McCain winning is her ticket to being the front runner in 2012, something she'd much rather have than 8 years of Barack


You lost me on this one, Reagan........if Obama wins the election, then he will be an incumbant and really have a better chance of re-election.......also I highly doubt that McCain is going to be running in 2012. Which if he's smart, he would start saying.......use it in his campaign.......I'm only going to be here for one term.......so I'm gonna get things done! If I recall my high school civics class, we were taught that a president's first 4 years in office is just him trying to get re-elected for the next 4 years.

[AlanC]

You lost me on this one, Reagan........if Obama wins the election, then he will be an incumbant and really have a better chance of re-election.......also I highly doubt that McCain is going to be running in 2012. Which if he's smart, he would start saying.......use it in his campaign.......I'm only going to be here for one term.......so I'm gonna get things done! If I recall my high school civics class, we were taught that a president's first 4 years in office is just him trying to get re-elected for the next 4 years.


Lily, you and Reagan are saying the same thing. She will not support Obama if he's the nominee.

And that last is the perfect argument for a single term of 6 years for a president.

[Drocket]

Why am I so optimistic? Simple, really--in every state where a democratic primary has occurred, democratic voter registration has surpassed ALL previous records. The chaos stirrers like Preserv would rather that no one notice that little fact. But they just can't get around it, so they try to ignore it and change the subject. :madlaugh:

I have to agree with you. While I do think that it would be best if Clinton would accept defeat and drop out so that Obama can start his battle against McCain, the extended Democratic primary is definitely revitalizing the party in a way that it hasn't been in decades. The number of registered Democrats is WAY up in state after state after state, and although I'm sure there's a few sneaky Republicans who crossed over just to make trouble, most of them are legitimately people getting into the party for the first time.

And just consider PA: if Clinton had dropped out before PA, Obama wouldn't have had the need (or as much of an opportunity) to build a base of support in the state has he did, and Clinton wouldn't have done the work she did in the state to build the party. Obama's base will serve him well come November, and Clinton's, even though some of them will chose not to vote for Obama, will mostly be on his side too.

Basically, my position is that, while I don't think that the extended Democratic primary is the most efficient thing the party could be doing right now, its still overall a move in a positive direction. That's really more than you can say about the Democratic party since... Hell, long before my time...