Do you believe any of your political views have been influenced by propaganda?

[ScareCrow]

I know this question sounds like a stupid one to ask, but I do have a point that will come through in a later thread. So, do you think any of your political views have been influenced by propaganda in any way?

[Alonzo]

Find one who claims they haven't been and you'll have found either a fool or a liar.

[Go Fish]

I attended public school, so I am absolutely convinced that mine have. Walter Cronkite was on the tube every night in our house, and that's proof of it. CNN was hailed as a breakthrough in news coverage, and you know what that got us.
I will say, however, that I am ferocious in my drive to make up for all those years of abuse.

[apdst]

I'm not a Liberals, so I would have to say, no. I was fortunate enough to be raised by parents who had a love for history, despite their lack of education. They taught me that you can bullshit historical facts, only to a certain point, then the truth comes to the surface.

[Troubadour]

I know this question sounds like a stupid one to ask, but I do have a point that will come through in a later thread. So, do you think any of your political views have been influenced by propaganda in any way?

It's not possible to be be uninfluenced by something we experience. Even becoming immune to propaganda involves some level of influence - we've encountered it, and learned to distrust it. The question is, what effect has propaganda had on your views, not whether it's had any effect - because even the most rational, open-minded people can only play the available cards.

[Buck Laser]

My early political views were heavily influenced by propaganda, mostly during 1953-56, when I was in the army. The Korean war ended, and we were in an uneasy truce. The army had quite a few dramatic "anti-communist" films they showed the troops, and I believed most of what I saw at the time. By the time I turned 21, left the army and started college, I was beginning to take a more nuanced view. Through my military service, my parents were always more liberal than I, and MUCH more informed about world affairs.

I've been kind of tuned out to most of the mass media for the last twenty years or so, and I'd say that most of the propaganda misses me. But I agree with Zo and Troubador: we're all subject to propaganda.

[Elrathin]

I wish I could say my views have not been influenced but they have. And my biggest source of propaganda was my own father. He is the type of lefty that I rally against. He is someone that thinks that only Dems/left side can do good and the right just wants to destroy freedom.

He is the biggest reason that I sought out reason in politics and to search for what I felt was right. I found that in the Democratic party (Reasons that is) but I also found that the party controllers (The DNC) were corrupt at least IMO.

While I follow the Democratic Party Platform I do not support the DNC so I don't claim myself a Dem for that reason.

[davo]

I don't think anyone who answered 'no' to this poll is being honest with themselves. Of course they have.

I went through the Australian public education system but I was amazingly resistant to the propaganda produced by this institution and became extremely critical of the powers that be. I was also kicked out of a grade 7 class for defending the British Empire in a lesson about aboriginal history. (I started arguing with the teacher, and when the rest of the class supported me she kicked me out).

But I guess outside the school system, my views had been heavily shaped by the days of ye olde England. I'd attended a rural primary school and spent a fair bit of time at museums and historic sites, and had family in England, which I'd attribute to giving me a strong old-school conservative outlook. I also played a fair bit of strategy games on the PC (such as civilization, colonization and Dune 2), which gave me a 'realist' perspective in global decision-making as opposed to an ethical or moral one.

However, I did have some good high school teachers though, who taught us about critical thinking and how to recognize propaganda. My English teacher also taught us about George Orwell books and Animal Farm. However, these were the exceptions rather than the rule. Most of my high school teachers were little more than politically correct doctrine enforcers.

[DamnYankee]

Do you believe any of your political views have been influenced by propaganda?

Of course. I was influenced heavily by liberalism mainly from the media and public school system. I was on the road to being a good little liberal. Then I woke up.

[Alonzo]

I was also kicked out of a grade 7 class for defending the British Empire in a lesson about aboriginal history. (I started arguing with the teacher, and when the rest of the class supported me she kicked me out).

I can imagine it had something to do with racist comments about their innate inferiority.

I wouldn't kick you out of class for it, though if there were aboriginal students in the class I would.

I also played a fair bit of strategy games on the PC (such as civilization, colonization and Dune 2), which gave me a 'realist' perspective in global decision-making as opposed to an ethical or moral one.

I'm sorry, but this is just sad.

[PatrickHenry]

Propaganda is pervasive and its effects may be subtle.

You might as well say you can drink polluted water without effect...

as to say that you have been subject to propaganda and it had no impact.

In our attempts to understand propaganda, we must acknowledge its potential for conditioning before we can attempt to discern truth.

I am grateful to the internet and to the iconoclasts of this world for helping me resist, and in some areas to overcome, conditioning.

Those who are brimming over with official propaganda would be amusing but for their potential to destroy our lives and liberties.

[Scribbler1]

In the past, I would say I sometimes bought into propaganda, but I have become so cynical I don't believe much unless they can PROVE it to me. Salesmanship doesn't really affect me any more.

That is not to say I've never been wrong about something, but that's usually caused by having no other sources of information.

[firefox]

Propaganda is just a tool, like anything else. It's "good" when it's on your side, and "bad" when you're in opposition to it's message(s). On another level, it is good when it promotes the truth, and bad when it does not. That is, of course, if you don't have any moral qualms w/ not letting people think entirely for themselves, as the term might imply.

[David]

I've been exposed to (in no specific order) socialist, communist, liberal, conservative, ultra-conservative, neo-conservative, fascist and libertarian propaganda.

Socialist, neo-con and libertarian ideas had the most lasting effect. Needless to say, such an odd mix has resulted in my holding pretty warped (but consistent) political positions.

[Rage]

I know this question sounds like a stupid one to ask, but I do have a point that will come through in a later thread. So, do you think any of your political views have been influenced by propaganda in any way?

Surprisingly yes. I bought myself a 'Re-defeat communism '08' shirt a few months ago. I look good in red.

[davo]

I've been exposed to (in no specific order) socialist, communist, liberal, conservative, ultra-conservative, neo-conservative, fascist and libertarian propaganda.

Socialist, neo-con and libertarian ideas had the most lasting effect. Needless to say, such an odd mix has resulted in my holding pretty warped (but consistent) political positions.

I'd have to say that Socialist, Neocon and Environmentalist propaganda are the most pervasive in our society. This is where most of the money and effort has been going.

Easiest way to tell what the powers-that-be want you to think, is to check what political slant the public school system has toward its students. Then you'll know what to oppose later in life.

[GhostintheMachine]

I'd have to say that Socialist, Neocon and Environmentalist propaganda are the most pervasive in our society. This is where most of the money and effort has been going.

Easiest way to tell what the powers-that-be want you to think, is to check what political slant the public school system has toward its students. Then you'll know what to oppose later in life.

Last time I checked the public schools were pretty strong advocates of capitalism...could you explain this more?

[Osborn F. Enready]

GhostInTheMachine said:
Last time I checked the public schools were pretty strong advocates of capitalism...could you explain this more?

Strong advocates of capitalism?!? Could you explain that more?

[4Reaganomics]

public schools are advocates of capitalism?

buahahaha

[GhostintheMachine]

Strong advocates of capitalism?!? Could you explain that more?

Sure, when I took econ in high school, they had us read Adam Smith like he was the Bible of economics.

History classes constantly talked about the evils of Communism, and we definitely never read anything like Marx.

Perhaps I went to a more conservative high school. Can you explain why you think public schools are different?

[Osborn F. Enready]

GhostInTheMachine said:
Sure, when I took econ in high school, they had us read Adam Smith like he was the Bible of economics.

History classes constantly talked about the evils of Communism, and we definitely never read anything like Marx.

Perhaps I went to a more conservative high school. Can you explain why you think public schools are different?

Because they do very little teaching of how to think critically, how to apply that knowledge to the world around them.

For instance, they may have preached the good aspects of Smith but failed to show the contrast between what Smith taught and what the system is today. They failed to connect the dots about how far we have strayed from the concept of free market, laissez faire capitalism. They fail to connect the dots of where the current system is going if it continues on its current course.....all of the above, because the system itself is dependent on the TRANSGRESSION AWAY from capitalism.

I would bet your school was more conservative than mine from what you have said, and there are many differences in public schools across the nation... but, one similarity they all share is being dependent on theft of funds through taxation to support them, lack of public authority in curriculum and enforcement of rules, and what the rules are, etc.

I find it hard for a system that is supported by anti-capitalist methods to be pro-capitalist in any way other than "lip service".

[GhostintheMachine]

Because they do very little teaching of how to think critically, how to apply that knowledge to the world around them.

For instance, they may have preached the good aspects of Smith but failed to show the contrast between what Smith taught and what the system is today. They failed to connect the dots about how far we have strayed from the concept of free market, laissez faire capitalism. They fail to connect the dots of where the current system is going if it continues on its current course.....all of the above, because the system itself is dependent on the TRANSGRESSION AWAY from capitalism.

I would bet your school was more conservative than mine from what you have said, and there are many differences in public schools across the nation... but, one similarity they all share is being dependent on theft of funds through taxation to support them, lack of public authority in curriculum and enforcement of rules, and what the rules are, etc.

I find it hard for a system that is supported by anti-capitalist methods to be pro-capitalist in any way other than "lip service".

Yeah, I agree that the lack of critical thinking coming from the areas of history and economics in high school is rather sad. Taking history classes in high school v. college is like night and day...

I think like you said the major problem is the federal stronghold on education. Unfortunately states cannot afford to fund their schools, therefore they have to comply with federal standards like No Child Left Behind, which doesn't even know what it wants(each state has its own test that hardly has any sort of congruency). I know in my own hometown the schools were heavily funded by timber dollars, but now that the timber industry is struggling, they have been forced to do levies in order to fund the schools, and trust me they are hurting for money, they can hardly keep some of the major sports funded.

So I really don't think that it has been theft of funds in my own experience, like you said public schools vary vastly by district. I do not know that studies have shown that for-profit schools have not been very successful in terms of student achievement.

[Osborn F. Enready]

GhostInTheMachine said:
Yeah, I agree that the lack of critical thinking coming from the areas of history and economics in high school is rather sad. Taking history classes in high school v. college is like night and day...

I wish I could comment on that. I have never had the funding or the inclination to go to college after seeing the education offered in public schools. I have friends who have gone to college, most of them I talked with about their studies and at times helped with ideas and angles of attack for their assignements, but the "opinions" on the critical thinking aspects have been varied, as varied as the schools being attended and number of classes taken....

GhostInTheMachine said:
I think like you said the major problem is the federal stronghold on education. Unfortunately states cannot afford to fund their schools, therefore they have to comply with federal standards like No Child Left Behind, which doesn't even know what it wants(each state has its own test that hardly has any sort of congruency).

The main reason for this is the unjust claim on YOUR and every individuals earning through federal income tax, social security, etc. If states taxes were the only taxes coming out of your labor, other than necessary federal taxes (national security/military, necessary federal government operational budget) states would be much better off, more independent, and more reflective of their local citizens in regards to quality of education, quality and amount of state and local services. (in my opinion of course)

Income tax when created, was intended to be placed on corporations only. This burden was unjustly shifted to every wage earner in the country.

The fed has long been holding the states as hostage for funding, in exchange for support of illogical and often self-damaging policies.

GhostInTheMachine said:
I know in my own hometown the schools were heavily funded by timber dollars, but now that the timber industry is struggling, they have been forced to do levies in order to fund the schools, and trust me they are hurting for money, they can hardly keep some of the major sports funded.

We are going through much the same here in my part of NW Ohio, but the funding mainly came from upper-lower class and middle class workers who largely worked at union companies, such as auto-industry (Detroit, MI and my hometown of Toledo, OH), glass industries, and a variety of other relative industries. When those jobs left to India, China, Mexico, so did the income that supported the infrastructure.

All of this savings that comes from producing goods in other countries comes directly with two costs....
1) The cost it has directly on the workers rights in those countries being traded with (most have none, those that have some have little at all) and its direct lowering of labor standards in this nation by corporations staying in this nation, since there are fewer places hiring, and a lot more laborers looking for work.
2) The cost it has directly affected in economic trade, by trading "unfairly" at the expense of our own laborers with nations who are not only ideological enemies, offering them open use of our markets with little to no "legal recourse for bad or faulty products", no import fees or tariffs (something they use on most of our goods imported for sale in their nations), and knowing that the bulk of this income being sent to these nations is being used to create and build national militaries at the direct expense of labor rights, in many cases not even recognizing the basic right to own property.

GhostInTheMachine said:
So I really don't think that it has been theft of funds in my own experience, like you said public schools vary vastly by district.

It is theft if you have no choice to not fund, and the threat against you is force via imprisonment, land or property or income confiscation.

GhostInTheMachine said:
I do not know that studies have shown that for-profit schools have not been very successful in terms of student achievement.

I beg to differ here. The studies I have seen have been pretty evenly showing better performance in for profit schools vs non-profit schools.