Democratic Hypocrisy

[Trish]

Much has been made by some Democrats on this forum about democratic ideals and who does and does not embody those ideals. Many times, both publicly and privately, I have been accused of being a "psuedo," "fake," "poser," "false," "pretend," Democrat. In short I have been called a liar and fake more times than Carter has liver pills by a few "Democrats" who apparently hold themselves as being superior Democrats. Repeatedly I have asked these few Democrats to define what are Democratic ideals and just how I have failed to live up to those ideals. To date, none of these very judgmental people have elected to supply an answer.

In the latest salvo of accusations that I am a liar and a fake, I have taken umbrage. In short, I'm fucking pissed off. The sheer hypocrisy of these people holding themselves up as arbiters of what is and is not Democratic is staggering when by their very actions on this board they fail to embody a core Democratic philosophy.

The Democratic National Platform outlines what Democrats stand for. The platform outlines the principles and beliefs that are core to the Democratic philosophy. The closing paragraphs of the 2004 Platform reads:

"We pledge to stand up for our beliefs and rally Americans to our cause. But we recognize that
disagreements will remain, and we believe disagreement should not mean disrespect. Members of our
party have deeply held and differing views on some matters of conscience and faith. We view diversity
of views as a source of strength, and we welcome into our ranks all Americans who seek to build a
stronger America. We are committed to resolving our differences in a spirit of civility, hope and mutual
respect.
That's the America we believe in."
http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf

So all you Democrat hypocrites who think that one must echo and regurgitate endlessly YOUR views and perspectives to BE a Democrat or endure being called names and subjected to disrespect and scorn - put those paragraphs in your oh so superior pipes! YOU are failing to living up to and support those Democratic ideals that you purport to hold so dear!

I'm supporting Clinton. If she fails to win the Democratic nomination I will vote for McCain or I won't vote. Why? Because these oh-so-superior Democrats who judge me to be a fake Democrat support Obama. Since they are THE arbiters of who is and is not a "true" Democrat, and he is their messiah, I want no part of them or their candidate. Ending devisiveness? Not bloody likely with this group.

[Elrathin]

Good post Trish. I encourage people to read the whole document that Trish was kind enough to link.

The Democratic Party is made up of many diverse people and while it is often thought of as "left", being a Democrat does not mean you are a liberal and there are members that have different beliefs and those should be respected as well.

While I agree with the Platform of the Democratic Party, I do not agree with how it is run and that is why I am not a member of that party anymore.

Good post Trish!

[AlonzoMourning23]

Reminds me of something a poster said to me about being a hillary supporter once. I don't remember the exact wording but it was something along the lines of "We know you support Hillary, but we still accept you in spite of your faults".

[preservanation]

It's time that the party of diversity lives up to that standard.

It seems to an outside observer that Hillary has a good case that she is a better candidate against McCain.
The reason the SDeligates were put in place to begin with was to ensure that the best candidate for the party gets the nomination
If they are precluded from carrying out their designed function, why have them at all?

America is just now starting to learn who Obama is, and we seem not to like some major things about him or his attitudes and associations. Right or wrong...
Perceptions, like it or not, do play a big role in politics.

Is it fair?
Probably not, but welcome to the big leagues where the Clintons are sure heavy hitters. (Another reason why Hillary could beat McCain)

As Hillary said in the last debate..."I have baggage, but it has all been rummaged through"
This is not the case with Obama. The more we dig, the deeper he gets, it seems.

[PostmodernProphet]

"We know you support Hillary, but we still accept you in spite of your faults".

not THAT is proof that Democrats are more tolerant than Republicans......

[PatrickHenry]

I suppose that "Democratic values" could apply to nearly any person living in America. (in some misinterpreted way)

But when you agree with members of the other party more than the members of your own...why not switch parties?

It's more natural that way.

Note: I am an outside observer who despises both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party.

But you look more like a Republican than a Democrat to me, Trish.

Sorry if that pisses you off.

You're the one who initiated this conversation. (in this thread)

[Pookie]

Good post Trish. I encourage people to read the whole document that Trish was kind enough to link.

The Democratic Party is made up of many diverse people and while it is often thought of as "left", being a Democrat does not mean you are a liberal and there are members that have different beliefs and those should be respected as well.

While I agree with the Platform of the Democratic Party, I do not agree with how it is run and that is why I am not a member of that party anymore.

Good post Trish!

I agree. I am independent, and although I consider myself liberal, I am more of a moderate. Trish can see and understand both sides, and so do I. I can see where she is coming from in her posts. I also can see where conservatives are coming from as well.
Trish, don't worry about anyone's opinion of you. You keep on posting what you believe, and so will conservatives and liberals and everyone else.
I don't have a problem with people posting what they think.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
You have a right to your opinion here, as we all do. You keep on posting, and I'll keep on reading your posts.
If anyone has a problem with that, well, honey, that is their problem and not yours.
You and I have butted heads before and we will from time to time. But you know I like that because you make me think and I NEED that.
Keep on rockin'!
Big Purrs,
Pookie

[Trish]

I suppose that "Democratic values" could apply to nearly any person living in America. (in some misinterpreted way)

But when you agree with members of the other party more than the members of your own...why not switch parties?

It's more natural that way.

Note: I am an outside observer who despises both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party.

But you look more like a Republican than a Democrat to me, Trish.

Sorry if that pisses you off.

You're the one who initiated this conversation. (in this thread)


I'm a conservative Democrat, PH. I don't particularly care if people agree with my positions or not - that's the whole point of debate isn't it - discussing different viewpoints? I can stand on my own two feet in that regard regardless of political affliliation. I manage to hold my own against you, don't I? 2 people with more divurgent views would be hard to find.

Disagreeing with me hardly upsets me. I don't expect agreement and do not require agreement to treat others with respect. If agreement were a requirement for me to address people civilly, I wouldn't be speaking at all to you since we disagree on most everything! My "position" on issues vs. that of others isn't the problem - personal attacks because of my position IS the problem. Up until today I have ignored, tolerated, and otherwise put up with the personal attacks. Privately and publicly I have been called a variety of names and adjectives which add up to one thing - I'm a liar in saying I'm a Democrat. Well I'm not a liar and I'm damn tired of being called one. I DON'T agree with members of the Republican Party more than I agree with members of the Democratic Party. However, on THIS board most of what is discussed are issues on which I tend to be conservative. There's a whole range of issues out there which are rarely, if ever, discussed on this board and upon which I am about as liberal as a person can get. Half the time I'm accused of agreeing with a Republican, the ISSUE has nothing to do with being Republican or Democrat but instead is a principle which SHOULD (in my opinion) apply to every honest person. Some people don't bother to try and distinguish the difference. Well that they are unwilling or incapable of distinguishing the difference doesn't make ME a liar.

You (generally speaking here, not addressed to you personally) want to discuss or debate an issue - I'm your girl. You want to call me a liar and fake - get ready to be called on it. I'm not going to ignore and tolerate that bullshit anymore. Either PROVE that I'm a liar or shut the fuck up about it and stay on the issues and off my ass.

[Scribbler1]

You support whoever you WANT to. Bottom line! And you don't take the detractors seriously. If you're HERE, it's apparent you don't anyway, so why worry about what people call you?

I've been called a right winger on some forums and a lefty lib on others. I am neither but I don't fret when some fool starts talking out of his blowhole. I don't think you do either.

[Trish]

You support whoever you WANT to. Bottom line! And you don't take the detractors seriously. If you're HERE, it's apparent you don't anyway, so why worry about what people call you?

I've been called a right winger on some forums and a lefty lib on others. I am neither but I don't fret when some fool starts talking out of his blowhole. I don't think you do either.


I take being called a liar very seriously. Otherwise, I don't particularly care what I'm called.

[Buck Laser]

I take being called a liar very seriously. Otherwise, I don't particularly care what I'm called.
I was the one who called Trish a pseudo-democrat. She objected to the term in a PM, calling herself a "blue dog democrat." I can live with that, but I disagree strenuously about her defense of the administration, the Iraq war, and a number of other things.

Unfortunately, the way the rep system is structured here, I can't change the reputation statement in any way I know of.

[Pookie]

I usually agree with Trish, and it is my totally biased and stupid opinion (of which many of you Pmed and told me to shut the fuck up) that she has a right to voice her opinion without rancor.
Not like me. Every time I say something, I understand I will be banned, the PMs are quite nasty.
Go, Trish! You rock.
Hang in there.
Purrs,
Pookie

[AlanC]

As a rule, when people attack a poster instead of the opinions, thoughts, articles and philosephies that are posted, it should indicate that someone is refusing to debate issues and, instead wants to attack, tarnish or somehow discredit the poster.

I have several times defended Obama on these boards when someone makes an absurd claim about him or his past. That doesn't make me a closet Democrat and no Republicans/Conservatives have ever accused me of that.

Trish on the other hand has been called liar about being a Democrat on more than a few ocassions. That comes under the forum heading of personal insult and, when done over and over by the same person or persons, it reaches the level of harrassment.

I think from time to time, we all need to keep in mind that discussing issues instead of individual posters is a far better thing to do.

I think that is all Trish is asking for and I, for one, think its entirely a reasonable expectation.

[lily]

First I want to say great post Alan. I also want to say, when the name calling comes out, it ususally means the person doing it doesn't have any argument left.





I'm supporting Clinton. If she fails to win the Democratic nomination I will vote for McCain or I won't vote. Why? Because these oh-so-superior Democrats who judge me to be a fake Democrat support Obama. Since they are THE arbiters of who is and is not a "true" Democrat, and he is their messiah, I want no part of them or their candidate. Ending devisiveness? Not bloody likely with this group.

Now to go slightely off topic.........that has got to be the silliest reason I've ever heard for voting/not voting for someone.

[Trish]

I was the one who called Trish a pseudo-democrat. She objected to the term in a PM, calling herself a "blue dog democrat." I can live with that, but I disagree strenuously about her defense of the administration, the Iraq war, and a number of other things.

Unfortunately, the way the rep system is structured here, I can't change the reputation statement in any way I know of.

Buck, I don't care about the rep system one way or another. I rarely give rep points either negative or positive. So the negative rep is inconsequential to me. Disagree with my positions all you please - that's pretty much an accepted outcome of any debate - there will be those that agree and those that disagree. I disagree with a lot of positions stated on this board. Some positions make me almost physically ill. But I don't call the posters of those positions liars.

I take offense at being called a liar. That is a slur against ME, not my opinions or positions. That word denigrates MY character, MY integrity. I take it seriously. Why do you think I object so strenuously to that word being thrown at anyone so casually on the board?

[Trish]

First I want to say great post Alan. I also want to say, when the name calling comes out, it ususally means the person doing it doesn't have any argument left.




Now to go slightely off topic.........that has got to be the silliest reason I've ever heard for voting/not voting for someone.

It may be a silly reason. In fact, it probably is. *wry smile* It is an accurate reflection of how I feel today, however. Tomorrow or next week maybe I'll see things differently.

[PatrickHenry]

Anyhow, Trish. Once I realized you were offended by remarks questioning the authenticity of your Democratic Party credentials, I quit doing it.

I am not really here to ruffle feathers for no reason.

My apology for the past offense over that issue.

[Pookie]

Trish, you're not a liar. You are one of the most interesting posters here, and I like you. So keep posting and keep up the good work!
Purrs,
Pookie

[Elrathin]

It may be a silly reason. In fact, it probably is. *wry smile* It is an accurate reflection of how I feel today, however. Tomorrow or next week maybe I'll see things differently.

Trish, all I have to say is that if you vote against someone just because some people you don't like are voting for that person, it is no better than others that say they are voting against someone because they say terrorists support them.

Me personally, I don't care if you don't vote for Obama because of the issues, his stances on somethings, or whatever, but I would hope when the time comes you vote for what truly matters to you and not vote against someone simply because people that you don't care for are voting for.

That is all I really ask of you and to be honest from the writings you have shown here, I think you will do the right thing and vote for what you truly believe what is right and not just what others think.

[Pookie]

I think she will, El. She's not one to be dishonest, especially to herself.
Purrs,
Pookie