Does the Republican Party fall under RICO?

[Troubadour]

In deciding, I refer you to the text of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sup_01_18_10_I_20_96.html

[Elrathin]

Nope I do not think the GOP satisfies that definition. Yes, some individual members of the Republican party may have done some illegal activities, but I do not see the GOP in anyway as a whole encouraging those activities.

[Pookie]

No, not the group as a whole, I don't think.
Purrs,
Pookie

[preservanation]

No better way to gain national power other than to criminalize the entire opposing political party.
This tactic seems familiar to me, but I just can't place it...

[PatrickHenry]

No better way to gain national power other than to criminalize the entire opposing political party.
This tactic seems familiar to me, but I just can't place it...Sure you can.

It was used by the US and Israel against Hamas.

[DamnYankee]

Does the Republican Party fall under RICO?

Rather typical of the leftists to seek the destruction of opposing view points. So much for the "free" exchange of ideas.

The mere suggestion is repulsive. Screw your poll.

[Troubadour]

Nope I do not think the GOP satisfies that definition. Yes, some individual members of the Republican party may have done some illegal activities, but I do not see the GOP in anyway as a whole encouraging those activities.

The Republican Party does not encourage members to break the law on behalf of Party interests, and reward those who do so?

From the text of the law, under Prohibited Activities (emphasis mine):


(a) It shall be unlawful for any person who has received any income derived, directly or indirectly, from a pattern of racketeering activity or through collection of an unlawful debt in which such person has participated as a principal within the meaning of section 2, title 18, United States Code, to use or invest, directly or indirectly, any part of such income, or the proceeds of such income, in acquisition of any interest in, or the establishment or operation of, any enterprise which is engaged in, or the activities of which affect, interstate or foreign commerce.


Under the definitions table in the text (emphases mine):


(1) “racketeering activity” means (A) any act or threat involving murder, kidnapping, gambling, arson, robbery, bribery, extortion, dealing in obscene matter, or dealing in a controlled substance or listed chemical (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act), which is chargeable under State law and punishable by imprisonment for more than one year; (B) any act which is indictable under any of the following provisions of title 18, United States Code: Section 201 (relating to bribery), section 224 (relating to sports bribery), sections 471, 472, and 473 (relating to counterfeiting), section 659 (relating to theft from interstate shipment) if the act indictable under section 659 is felonious, section 664 (relating to embezzlement from pension and welfare funds), sections 891–894 (relating to extortionate credit transactions), section 1028 (relating to fraud and related activity in connection with identification documents), section 1029 (relating to fraud and related activity in connection with access devices), section 1084 (relating to the transmission of gambling information), section 1341 (relating to mail fraud), section 1343 (relating to wire fraud), section 1344 (relating to financial institution fraud), section 1425 (relating to the procurement of citizenship or nationalization unlawfully), section 1426 (relating to the reproduction of naturalization or citizenship papers), section 1427 (relating to the sale of naturalization or citizenship papers), sections 1461–1465 (relating to obscene matter), section 1503 (relating to obstruction of justice), section 1510 (relating to obstruction of criminal investigations), section 1511 (relating to the obstruction of State or local law enforcement), section 1512 (relating to tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant), section 1513 (relating to retaliating against a witness, victim, or an informant), section 1542 (relating to false statement in application and use of passport), section 1543 (relating to forgery or false use of passport), section 1544 (relating to misuse of passport), section 1546 (relating to fraud and misuse of visas, permits, and other documents), sections 1581–1592 (relating to peonage, slavery, and trafficking in persons).,[1] section 1951 (relating to interference with commerce, robbery, or extortion), section 1952 (relating to racketeering), section 1953 (relating to interstate transportation of wagering paraphernalia), section 1954 (relating to unlawful welfare fund payments), section 1955 (relating to the prohibition of illegal gambling businesses), section 1956 (relating to the laundering of monetary instruments), ...

...

(4) “enterprise” includes any individual, partnership, corporation, association, or other legal entity, and any union or group of individuals associated in fact although not a legal entity;

(5)“pattern of racketeering activity” requires at least two acts of racketeering activity, one of which occurred after the effective date of this chapter and the last of which occurred within ten years (excluding any period of imprisonment) after the commission of a prior act of racketeering activity;


So, in your opinion, the Republican Party has not engaged in a pattern (as defined) of terrorist threats, extortion, witness tampering, obstruction of justice, bribery, corruption, fraud, document falsification, illegal device access (i.e., warrantless wiretapping) and other crimes that resulted in monies being directed to interstate private enterprises (e.g., contractors) affiliated with it?

No better way to gain national power other than to criminalize the entire opposing political party.

Then you're of the opinion that laws against organized crime are specifically targeted at Republicans. Interesting.


This tactic seems familiar to me, but I just can't place it...

Yes, Republicans tried it in the '50s. The difference was they were trying to make political beliefs illegal, not racketeering.


Rather typical of the leftists to seek the destruction of opposing view points.


What does racketeering have to do with "opposing viewpoints"?


So much for the "free" exchange of ideas.


We are freely exchanging ideas right now. I'm asking a question - does the Republican Party satisfy the legal definitions of a Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization - and you're avoiding the question because we both know the answer is yes. You can make a legitimate case that the RICO Act is unconstitutional, but there is no legitimate case that the Republican Party does not more than satisfy its conditions for prosecution. Are you arguing that the RICO Act is unconstitutional, or are you simply insisting Republicans are above the law?


The mere suggestion is repulsive.

The fact is repulsive, and your authoritarian attitude to reality is laughable.


Screw your poll.

So, after sanctimoniously bloviating about "free exchange of ideas," your complaint comes down to the fact that we're discussing something. How is your post not the absolute embodiment of everything Republicans stand for?

[BoogyMan]

Troubadour, your quoted list of activities above has just condemned the whole of Washington DC.

[apdst]

Wait, I thought that NO Liberals wanted to criminalize dissenting thought. Who was it that told me that?

[Elrathin]

Wait, I thought that NO Liberals wanted to criminalize dissenting thought. Who was it that told me that?

No apdst, if you're going to falsely accuse me of something, at least get it right. I said no liberal is wanting someone arrested for DISAGREEING with them only.

In the situation with Bush, and the administration, there are liberals wanting trials and arrests for illegal acts they feel they committed. That is not simply disagreeing with them.

And for the record, no, I don't agree with those saying that.


apdst, you and pres seem to have a problem understand the difference between wanting someone arrested for disagreeing with them and wanting someone arrested because they feel they committed a crime.

Do you understand that yet?

[Troubadour]

Troubadour, your quoted list of activities above has just condemned the whole of Washington DC.

It's not "my" list of activities, it's the RICO Act. And there is a massive qualitative and quantitative difference between organized crime committed with direct institutional support and disorganized crime committed by individuals with no practical connection to each other. My experience is that Republicans try to argue in both directions at once, saying simultaneously "but everybody does it" and "it's just a few bad apples," usually in the opposite order depending on how desperate they are. The false equivalence between what happens in the GOP and the normal state of political affairs is just too extreme to countenance: The Republican Party is not a political organization that occasionally indulges in crime, it's a criminal organization that occasionally indulges in politics. Delivering money to its financiers and power to its leaders by any means necessary, within or without the law, comes close to being its sole occupation. It is an association of primarily white, affluent, men seeking either money, power, or money and power, and they work together to the extent that doing so mutually advances those objectives - the WASP analog to Cosa Nostra, with similar attitudes if usually subtler tactics (domestically, anyway).

[BoogyMan]

It's not "my" list of activities, it's the RICO Act. And there is a massive qualitative and quantitative difference between organized crime committed with direct institutional support and disorganized crime committed by individuals with no practical connection to each other. My experience is that Republicans try to argue in both directions at once, saying simultaneously "but everybody does it" and "it's just a few bad apples," usually in the opposite order depending on how desperate they are. The false equivalence between what happens in the GOP and the normal state of political affairs is just too extreme to countenance: The Republican Party is not a political organization that occasionally indulges in crime, it's a criminal organization that occasionally indulges in politics. Delivering money to its financiers and power to its leaders by any means necessary, within or without the law, comes close to being its sole occupation. It is an association of primarily white, affluent, men seeking either money, power, or money and power, and they work together to the extent that doing so mutually advances those objectives - the WASP analog to Cosa Nostra, with similar attitudes if usually subtler tactics (domestically, anyway).

You have not proven that assertion Troubadour.

I do believe that the same tactic (trying to get rid of the opposition by demonizing them and working to criminalize their existence) was used by many despots in our world's history to get rid of the opposition party. Hitler found the tactic useful as did Joseph Stalin.

[Troubadour]

You have not proven that assertion Troubadour.

Which?


I do believe that the same tactic (trying to get rid of the opposition by demonizing them and working to criminalize their existence) was used by many despots in our world's history to get rid of the opposition party. Hitler found the tactic useful as did Joseph Stalin.

Organized crime depicted as Christ on the Cross - your comment is sick beyond words. If you believe claiming to be a political party automatically exempts an organization from prosecution for anything, maybe I should start the "I Should Get Away With Everything Party," and use my political party immunity to rob banks - after all, we can't very well permit the government to round up an entire party just because one of its members (it's only member) is a criminal. Can't have the gubmint crushing dissent by criminalizing crime, can we? Can't you just picture some fat mobster in handcuffs singing "We shall ovuh-cooooooome, we shall ovuh-coooooome, some-frickin-daaaay." And of course, there's the obvious implication of your statement - the victims of the Republican Party's crimes have no rights.

[BoogyMan]

How long before purveyors of such repulsive teachings as this "GOP=RICO" drivel will be calling for house to house searches for all republicans?

[PatrickHenry]

It's a ridiculous premise, really.

[Troubadour]

How long before purveyors of such repulsive teachings as this "GOP=RICO" drivel will be calling for house to house searches for all republicans?

Unlike idiotic Republican ideas about al Qaeda, we're well aware that simply calling yourself something doesn't mean one is actually part of an organization. Checking "Democratic Party" on your voter registration makes you a member of the Democratic Party; checking "Republican Party" means absolutely nothing unless you're in elected office or a wealthy contributor - you're simply namedropping an organization whose leaders would feed you and your entire family into a woodchipper before breakfast if it would bump Lockheed Martin's stock a quarter-point.

BTW, thanks for all but admitting that RICO does apply to the GOP - a point you've not bothered to argue. You find it more convenient to depict gangsters in the role of Jesus, and their victims as some kind of vile conspiracy - something far more suggestive of the Nazi analogy than your ludicrous Orwellian references to it. They could be torturing someone as we speak, and their apologists would tell it as if the Madonna would shed tears of blood for the suffering of any Armani-clad Republican millionaire politician who had to stand in a court of law and answer charges for any of it. Where exactly does evil and insanity of this magnitude come from?

[Elrathin]

How long before purveyors of such repulsive teachings as this "GOP=RICO" drivel will be calling for house to house searches for all republicans?

Let's look on the opposite side of this Boogy, how long before people on the right will be calling for searches for all liberals/Democrats simply because they disagree with the treatment of inmates at Guantanamo?

It works both ways, extremists suck, no matter what side they are on wouldn't you agree?

[BoogyMan]

Let's look on the opposite side of this Boogy, how long before people on the right will be calling for searches for all liberals/Democrats simply because they disagree with the treatment of inmates at Guantanamo?

It works both ways, extremists suck, no matter what side they are on wouldn't you agree?

We have not seen anyone here posting failed historical tactics reminiscent of Hitler or Stalin with an eye towards ridding the country of their political opposites El. You know full well that I agree with you that extremism stinks, I am amazed that you are excusing the tactic used here.

[Elrathin]

I am amazed that you are excusing the tactic used here.

How am I excusing it Boogy? I believe if you read my response on the other page, you will see I clearly stated my position on this matter.

[Alonzo]

I think the best response to these sorts of accusations is to ignore the accuser.

[Troubadour]

We have not seen anyone here posting failed historical tactics reminiscent of Hitler or Stalin with an eye towards ridding the country of their political opposites.

And we still have not. This crap you're posting is reminiscent of defense strategies at the Nuremberg tribunals - instead of denying the crime, just attack the motives of the prosecuting authority. "Sure we murdered millions, but...you're just playing politics!"

[BoogyMan]

And we still have not. This crap you're posting is reminiscent of defense strategies at the Nuremberg tribunals - instead of denying the crime, just attack the motives of the prosecuting authority. "Sure we murdered millions, but...you're just playing politics!"

Yes, Troubadour, we HAVE seen such activities, the OP springs to mind. How long will it be before calls will be posted for a country-wide roundup of republicans to be sent to re-education camps?

[Elrathin]

How long will it be before calls will be posted for a country-wide roundup of republicans to be sent to re-education camps?

Well since we've heard many conservatives on the right calling the left terrorist supporters and terrorist sympathizers for disagreeing with the methods being used by this administration one has to wonder if we have a continued Republican Presidency how long will it be before people on the left are rounded up and sent to Guantanamo?

[BoogyMan]

Well since we've heard many conservatives on the right calling the left terrorist supporters and terrorist sympathizers for disagreeing with the methods being used by this administration one has to wonder if we have a continued Republican Presidency how long will it be before people on the left are rounded up and sent to Guantanamo?

Show me how you can get that from the OP El, I will enjoy your explanation of how this is even close to the topic which tries to make a case to criminalize the republican party. You also know good and well you would never hear such ridiculous rhetoric from me.

[Troubadour]

How long will it be before calls will be posted for a country-wide roundup of republicans to be sent to re-education camps?

BoogyMan, your posts seem to consist of random, spastic swings into paranoid fantasy with absolutely no motivation or rational basis, no matter how hard I've tried to keep you on the plane of reality and engaged in serious discussion. I've been trying to examine whether the crimes of the Republican leadership qualify the RNC for indictment under the RICO Act, but since the facts appear to speak in the affirmative, it may very well be you're simply posting in bad faith to derail this discussion. Well, it's not appropriate, and it's not acceptable. Please stick to the subject. Now, I apparently failed to select "open poll" as I'd intended, so I don't know how people voted - did you vote "No"? And if so, can you please discuss your legal reasoning in forming that conclusion?

[BoogyMan]

The preponderance of your postings, Troubadour, makes me believe that my initial assessment is correct.

[DamnYankee]

The preponderance of your postings, Troubadour, makes me believe that my initial assessment is correct.

Of course you're correct.

The leftist kook fringe in this country would criminalize any political party that doesn't agree with them. Then whine incessantly if one even suggested, or thought of, including RICO in the same sentence as the kook fringe. So much for inclusion. Wouldn't Barack Hussein Obama be pissed over something like this? Isn't he supposed to "unite" everyone for some big group hug? Anyway.

Criminalizing a political party was tried successfully by ruthless dictators in the past, we know that. So I suppose that is what the left-wing kooks of the extreme fringe of the liberal parties has become. A bunch of elites imposing their will on everyone in a nasty bitter and full of hatred kind of way.

Sad. Pathetic actually.

[preservanation]

What scares me is that IMO our judicial system has been so infiltrated by communists and leftists, that an effort to criminalize Conservative speech, policy and an entire political party is not out of the realm of possibility.

If this is perceived as a reality by a majority in this country and the tipping point is reached...watchout!
There are plenty of us out here who feel it is our duty to stop it.
When pushed the American people can and will address the matter in a mighty and convincing way!

[Graphic]

Bah **waves away argument** I've heard hardcore lefties say the same thing about righties and their agendas (is this poll not such an example?). People with extreme opinions have a tendency to have extreme views on reality as well. If you're at either end of the whack-job spectrum your opinion is null-and-void to me. The world is to complex and to dynamic for someone to boil it down to a simple view, which seems to be the bread and butter of politics and political debates. Hell the only way any one gets something done in a Scientific field is to narrow their focus to nearly microscopic proportions of natural laws and to just figure that portion out (by microscopic I mean a very restricted scope of research not actually studying microscopic things). Big pictures are hard to come by and most are not reliable, the ones that are reliable are normally formed by people who have a very solid, extensive, and neutral understanding of world history.

[preservanation]

Hell the only way any one gets something done in a Scientific field is to narrow their focus to nearly microscopic proportions of natural laws and to just figure that portion out (by microscopic I mean a very restricted scope of research not actually studying microscopic things).Ah, but I encourage the scientific community to do and accomplish things. I don't don't hold the same opinion for Gov.

Every time those blowhards on Capital Hill accomplish something it usually ends up costing me money or my liberty.
Bah!

[Troubadour]

The preponderance of your postings, Troubadour, makes me believe that my initial assessment is correct.

Notwithstanding the endless cycles of selective anterograde amnesia illustrated by your posts, I'm perfectly prepared to reiterate my question as often as necessary until you at least do me the courtesy of responding in some way to the subject of this thread: Did you vote "No"? And if so, can you please discuss your legal reasoning in forming that conclusion?

[BoogyMan]

Troubadour, you are now trying to frame your posting as if you meant SOME republicans are worthy of such speculation and then only after being called on the much less selective version of the invective you originally posted.

I find the situation, in light of such FACTS, to be unworthy of a serious effort on my part other than to rebut the all republicans are criminals type of rhetoric.

[ptif219]

I say no it is more likely to apply to the dems.:roflmao:

[Troubadour]

Troubadour, you are now trying to frame your posting as if you meant SOME republicans are worthy of such speculation

The Republican hierarchy and money laundering apparatus is the Republican Party. That is not a "frame," it is a practical fact.


and then only after being called on the much less selective version of the invective you originally posted.


You seem to be confusing different threads. This one began with a simple question about whether the Republican Party satisfies the criteria for RICO prosecution - a question you've not answered, let alone elaborated upon with legal reasoning.


I find the situation, in light of such FACTS to be unworthy of a serious effort on my part other than to rebut the all republicans are criminals type of rhetoric.

In other words, even though you can't even keep straight which thread you're responding to, and have nothing to say in any of them, you're going to keep saying it anyway simply because you don't like what you're hearing. Thanks for the admission, however belated, petulant, and fictionalized with ignominious potshots. Such an attitude fits the Republican Party like a finely tailored suit.

[Troubadour]

I say no it is more likely to apply to the dems.

Care to elaborate on that, or is that another Flat Earth Creationist article of faith that we must simply pretend represents a valid opinion?

[BoogyMan]

The Republican hierarchy and money laundering apparatus is the Republican Party. That is not a "frame," it is a practical fact.

...

You seem to be confusing different threads. This one began with a simple question about whether the Republican Party satisfies the criteria for RICO prosecution - a question you've not answered, let alone elaborated upon with legal reasoning.

...

In other words, even though you can't even keep straight which thread you're responding to, and have nothing to say in any of them, you're going to keep saying it anyway simply because you don't like what you're hearing. Thanks for the admission, however belated, petulant, and fictionalized with ignominious potshots. Such an attitude fits the Republican Party like a finely tailored suit.

Thank you for proving my point for me Troubadour. While pretending to speak only of those in the leadership you have shown here that your comments deal with the whole of the party as I previously asserted, and the comparison to those in history whose aim it was to rid themselves of their political opposites through fantastic rhetoric leading to drastic measures.

[ptif219]

Care to elaborate on that, or is that another Flat Earth Creationist article of faith that we must simply pretend represents a valid opinion?

Do you want to start with campaign money from China or maybe some cadidiates ties to terrorist.

Or maybe land deals in Nevada.

[Troubadour]

While pretending to speak only of those in the leadership you have shown here that your comments deal with the whole of the party as I previously asserted

Umm, no. There's nothing in my comment that remotely suggests, let alone proves that. Having lost all contact with reality and the posts you're allegedly responding to, you have taken faith-based thinking to its ultimate conclusion: Rather than answering what I say, you create your own alternate universe where you hear exactly whatever justifies your position, and desperately avoid digesting a single iota of information that isn't pre-selected to fit what you already believe. From the very beginning, you've been so determined to not entertain a single thought outside this asinine right-wing programming that you will not even answer a simple, honest question, because to do so might introduce objectivity into a self-absorbed, infantilized conservative worldview that cannot tolerate it.

But rather than simply abstaining from a conversation you refuse to add anything to, you immediately objected to the very notion that the divine Republican Party could ever or should ever be held to account in a court of law by mere mortals with written laws. You don't merely state that RICO does not apply, since that would at least concede the GOP is subject to American law - something Republican leaders have grown so drunk on power that they no longer accept. No, you deny the very validity of the premise that American law supersedes the divine right of Republican dictatorship.


and the comparison to those in history whose aim it was to rid themselves of their political opposites through fantastic rhetoric leading to drastic measures.

While Republicans still sit over an empire of murder, torture, theft, spying, and intimidation constructed on the ruins of what was once the United States Executive branch, you smirkingly condemn the people they've spared no expense to crush for daring to imply the Holy Ones are subject to the laws of men. As I've said, and as no doubt you will continue to do, you portray dictators and criminals as Christ on the Cross and their victims as odious agents of doom - precisely as Hitler did, lending your own Orwellian comparisons the kind of sadistic symmetry of lunacy that Republicans are now widely associated with. Some people are just plain sick, and would feel more sympathy for a drunk driver's dented fender than the family of the pedestrian who dented it.

Do you want to start with campaign money from China or maybe some cadidiates ties to terrorist.

Sure, be my guest. But be forewarned that campaign finance issues with a handful of individual candidates does not rise to the level of coordinated criminal activity on the order of war conspiracy, torture, and war profiteering.


Or maybe land deals in Nevada.


I'm aware of Harry Reid's shady dealings, and also aware that you're feebly grasping at straws. The DNC is virtually powerless in Nevada, a state owned by a single all-powerful industry, and Reid comes close to being DINO - i.e., he capitulates to Republicans on a consistent basis. In other words, to the contrary of your innuendo, it appears Reid's corruption harms the Democratic Party rather than advances its agenda. Contrast that with how the House had been run under Tom DeLay, who openly turned the United States House of Representatives into an extortion racket, which he used to not only generate money for Republican Party activities and campaigns in general (which they accepted with gratitude), but to cram the Republican agenda through Congress with virtually zero opportunity for dissent - activities that resulted in his being awarded the Majority Leadership. How many years of open criminality took place under DeLay, unabashedly and virulently supported by the GOP, until the collective weight of the stink forced him out? You won't be able to come up with a single instance after 1960 where the Democratic Party has actually benefited from an individual's criminality, but the Republican Party has never stopped using crime as a political tactic. Your claim that RICO applies to the DNC at all would be laughable enough, but to claim that while saying it does not apply to the RNC is pure Orwellian doublethink.

[ptif219]

Umm, no. There's nothing in my comment that remotely suggests, let alone proves that. Having lost all contact with reality and the posts you're allegedly responding to, you have taken faith-based thinking to its ultimate conclusion: Rather than answering what I say, you create your own alternate universe where you hear exactly whatever justifies your position, and desperately avoid digesting a single iota of information that isn't pre-selected to fit what you already believe. From the very beginning, you've been so determined to not entertain a single thought outside this asinine right-wing programming that you will not even answer a simple, honest question, because to do so might introduce objectivity into a self-absorbed, infantilized conservative worldview that cannot tolerate it.

But rather than simply abstaining from a conversation you refuse to add anything to, you immediately objected to the very notion that the divine Republican Party could ever or should ever be held to account in a court of law by mere mortals with written laws. You don't merely state that RICO does not apply, since that would at least concede the GOP is subject to American law - something Republican leaders have grown so drunk on power that they no longer accept. No, you deny the very validity of the premise that American law supersedes the divine right of Republican dictatorship.



While Republicans still sit over an empire of murder, torture, theft, spying, and intimidation constructed on the ruins of what was once the United States Executive branch, you smirkingly condemn the people they've spared no expense to crush for daring to imply the Holy Ones are subject to the laws of men. As I've said, and as no doubt you will continue to do, you portray dictators and criminals as Christ on the Cross and their victims as odious agents of doom - precisely as Hitler did, lending your own Orwellian comparisons the kind of sadistic symmetry of lunacy that Republicans are now widely associated with. Some people are just plain sick, and would feel more sympathy for a drunk driver's dented fender than the family of the pedestrian who dented it.

Would you say the same for Clinton when he bombed Bosnia and killed innocents or for blowing up aspirin factories.

You are spreading propaganda not facts.

[BoogyMan]

Reading this propaganda I have to once again ask when the calls for a nationwide roundup of Republicans for re-education will be made.

[Troubadour]

Reading this propaganda I have to once again ask when the calls for a nationwide roundup of Republicans for re-education will be made.

And reading this propaganda, I am once again reminded of the cowardly hypocrisy of a tyrannical lunatic fringe who puts people in torture camps and then calls up delusions of persecution at the first hint of assertive opposition. One is reminded of a schoolyard bully who runs to the principal the minute they're confronted with a victim who refuses to be a victim. There is nothing lower than a sadistic coward.


Would you say the same for Clinton when he bombed Bosnia and killed innocents

Would I compare a limited campaign of defensive NATO bombings to protect besieged UN safe zones with a deliberate conspiracy to invade and conquer another country? No, I would not, because I'm sane.


or for blowing up aspirin factories.

Factories linked directly to Osama Bin Laden, near which highly exotic trace chemicals associated primarily with chemical weapons processing were discovered. You excuse, if not deify, a maniac who falsifies intelligence and directs the entire United States Armed Forces and tens of thousands of homicidal mercenaries to conquer and occupy in perpetuity a country that had never attacked and never could attack us, but heap scorn and ridicule on a President who responds to timely, seemingly credible intelligence with rational, limited action. It just reinforces the overarching conclusion for me: It's not that Republicans don't know what's best for America - it's just they're on the other side. Nothing from Democrats is good enough, and nothing from Republicans too horrific. As long as they get their tax cuts, who cares how many bodies pile up.


You are spreading propaganda not facts.


There are plenty of facts in my posts - you just can't answer them, so you ignore them and pretend they aren't there. Basically the Republican approach to all reality.

[Troubadour]

Sure there are...
Republican, conservative, Neo-Con, Reich-winger, Nazi - just to name a few... :madlaugh:

Excuse me, I meant there are no descriptors for that kind of low, requiring the use of analogies to even conceive of it. To be a Republican and fear persecution is hypocritical cowardice and self-absorbed paranoia on a level that challenges human intellect to imagine. One is reminded of the emperor who demands that a slave he barely feeds should beg forgiveness for not salting his food enough, thus putting him through the ordeal of waiting for his food a few extra moments. There really are no words for it - it's behavior seen outside the Republican Party only in children.

[Troubadour]

I know, I'm already removing my fillings and shoving the gold up my ass.
I hope they're letting me bring a toothbrush, or up that goes too.

A lot of liberals were saying that when Republicans first started rounding up and torturing people, but I knew better from the beginning: They may not understand what liberals are, but they know what liberals aren't - cowards like them. They'll steal from children and poor people to pay back their corporate Mafia financiers, and invade defenseless third-world countries they can conquer with zero chance of actual defeat, but they will never put anything on the line that was ever theirs in the first place. If they were in control in the '30s, they would have entered WW2 on the side of the Nazis and Japanese against the Soviet Union, but of course only by supplying money and arms; and if China attacked tomorrow, they would practically surrender to keep the economic situation afloat. Such cowardly lowlifes are no threat to liberals - it's just people without an agenda, living their lives day to day, who are victimized by Republicans, and they whom we defend. Aside from a desire to justify their own lowness by tearing down everyone else, Republican paranoia is simply fear and resentment of better people they can't control. They don't dare put us in concentration camps like they want, so the best they can do is live in Bizarro World and slander decent, moral people with their own vileness.

[preservanation]

This is just another example of the cynical fantasy world you call home.

[Troubadour]

This is just another example of the cynical fantasy world you call home.

And all your childish, delusional ravings haven't detracted one iota from the fact that the Republican Party qualifies as a criminal organization under the RICO Act. Bruce Cutler you ain't.

[preservanation]

You keep saying that...it's Ok.
People are free to believe what they want, even without any proof.
I just wish that some would extend that same courtesy to others without slapping them with some sort of crime...that's all.

[Troubadour]

You keep saying that...

And my original set of arguments hasn't changed. Whenever you choose to begin addressing them, feel free.


People are free to believe what they want, even without any proof.

Yes, you count on it. You make wild, ridiculous allegations whenever it suits you, and when it doesn't you insist there's "no proof" of documented, undisputed facts. Nicotine is addictive? No proof. 1 + 1 = 2? No proof. It's like you think those are magic words, like a child trying to imitate the way an intelligent adult speaks without actually knowing what he's saying. "No proof" from you has about the same meaning as "I don't like it, so shut up." And it doesn't appear you think anything more is needed from you to invalidate anyone else's statements. You don't answer questions, or address my answers to your questions, or address facts I bring up, or frame halfway coherent analogies, or cite any facts of your own, or do anything resembling communication. You simply brush things away, like an Emperor waving away a dish he doesn't wish to taste. Well, I'm sorry to inform you, but that isn't how discussions work - nobody is here to please you. We're not offering anything for your delectation, we're discussing issues, and you don't seem to understand what that means. If you don't like the facts that underly a discussion, then talk about how you can change the situation - don't walk around with your head in a fishbowl, refusing to acknowledge a single fact you don't like. People will just ignore you. And if you want to be ignored, then don't waste other people's time.


I just wish that some would extend that same courtesy to others without slapping them with some sort of crime...that's all.

When someone commits a crime, they should be charged with it. This is how things work in the adult world outside of Republican politics.

[preservanation]

Yes, you count on it. You make wild, ridiculous allegations whenever it suits you... Nicotine is addictive? No proof. 1 + 1 = 2? No proof... "No proof" from you has about the same meaning as "I don't like it, so shut up"."Nicotine"???
"I don't lke it, so Shut Up"???
Okayyyy.

I hate to keep doing this to you, but do you have any examples or proof of your accusations?

[Troubadour]

"Nicotine"???
I hate to keep doing this to you

You're not doing anything to me. I swim in your little tidepool of circular nonsense as a bit of slight mental and verbal exercise.


but do you have any examples or proof of your accusations?

Yes. Any other questions? :)

[preservanation]

Yes. Any other questions? You mean like the sound of one hand clapping? I'll probably get an equally satisfactory answere.
I'm about to propose a 'Steel Cage Death match' with both you and ECW!
I'll bring the ketchup.
;)

[Troubadour]

You mean like the sound of one hand clapping?

Or the result of a Republican thinking?


I'm about to propose a 'Steel Cage Death match' with both you and ECW!
I'll bring the ketchup.
;)

Sorry, I don't have the slightest idea what you're babbling about. Let me know when you want to talk about the RICO Act and its applicability to the RNC.

[Wndrtch]

Sure you can.

It was used by the US and Israel against Hamas.

Republicans are a political party, that is being criminalized.

Hamas are criminals, becomming a political party.

See the difference?

[Phyxius]

Republicans are a political party, that is being criminalized.

Hamas are criminals, becomming a political party.

See the difference?

You mean Republicans were a political party who let themselves be taken over by crimminals. :madlaugh:



:grrrr:

[Elrathin]

You mean Republicans were a political party who let themselves be taken over by crimminals. :madlaugh:



:grrrr:

You gotta be kidding me right? I am a former Dem, and the only reason I am a former Dem is because how they are run. But regardless, Dems are in legal problems just like Republicans are.

To say that Republicans are run over by criminals is delusional when Dems get into trouble with the law as well.

[Troubadour]

You gotta be kidding me right? I am a former Dem, and the only reason I am a former Dem is because how they are run. But regardless, Dems are in legal problems just like Republicans are.

To say that Republicans are run over by criminals is delusional when Dems get into trouble with the law as well.

The problem with your comment is its total lack of rational proportion, resulting in a wildly distorted and unjustified equivalence. You are, in essence, equating a Mafia family with some family in Oregon with a cousin on probation - in other words, you're dismissing the distinction when the similarities are so trivial as to be virtually nonexistent. Listening to the way Republicans respond to criticism, it's almost like some kind of comedy skit, where a candidate with the most indefensible record imaginable shoots back at his opponent with the most petty attacks imaginable. "My opponent says I murdered a business partner and stole his life savings, making his wife and children homeless. Well, okay, I have made a few youthful, homicidal indiscretions in my business dealings. But I have recently discovered that he, ladies and gentlemen...has unpaid parking tickets. Yes, I know, it's shocking, but we must deal with this fact - this serial parking-ticket-unpayer cannot be trusted with the grave responsibilities of the 3rd District Delaware Water Board." Sometimes I just find it hard to imagine that Republicans actually grew up in this country, let alone that anyone could believe there's an equivalence between them and Democrats.

[preservanation]

Sometimes I just find it hard to imagine that Republicans actually grew up in this country, let alone that anyone could believe there's an equivalence between them and Democrats.According to some, all Dems should be in charge and all Repubs should be in jail.
That is quite clear.
I wonder how many really think that this is a good idea?

[BoogyMan]

Sometimes I just find it hard to imagine that Republicans actually grew up in this country, let alone that anyone could believe there's an equivalence between them and Democrats.

Comments like this one make me wonder when the hardcore left will try their own krystalnacht in America.

[Troubadour]

I think he's just trying to get a reaction and doesn't really believe it.

The subject of this thread is "Does the Republican Party Fall under RICO?" In particular, I provided the text of the law and solicited legal discussions of applicability. BoogyMan, while making his opinion on the Yes/No aspect of the question evident, did nothing to back it up, and instead was outraged that I dared, dared to suggest that the Grand Old Party is a criminal organization simply because it directly, routinely benefits from and encourages organized crime by its leaders. The farce only descended from there - Bush is Jesus and I'm Hitler; liberals are plotting to round up and exterminate conservatives; etc. etc., ad nauseum. If it keeps going, I'm sure there will be something about "Illuminati," black helicopters, and UN plots to invade America. A criminal conspiracy by politicians? Totally preposterous. A plot by liberals to violently attack and massacre people? Oh, that's different - clearly a credible scenario. (eye-roll)

Boogy's posts, while comically delusional, at least had some direction to them. Preservanation, however, flew straight into incoherence from the starting line. As far as I can recall, he never even mentioned RICO, let alone attempted to form any cogent thoughts on the subject. It's almost as if both of them are unaware of the fact that the law is relevant to a legal discussion. And that, I think, explains a lot, both in terms of their posts and the actions of politicians who think like them.

[preservanation]

Troubadour, do you read the posts which appear under your user name?
Whoever writes those is continually calling for the incarceration of their political opponents on the right.