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AlonzoMourning23
09-05-2006, 08:56 PM
The global debate between scientists and conservative Christians over evolution has hit Kenya, where an exhibit of one of the world's finest collections of early hominid fossils is under threat.

As the famed National Museum of Kenya (NMK) prepares to reopen next year after massive, European Union-funded renovations, evangelicals are demanding the display be removed or at least shunted to a less prominent location.

The Origins of Man exhibit, comprised of prehistoric finds from around Africa's Great Rift Valley, considered by many to be the cradle of humanity, is offensive as it promotes Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, they say.

"When museums put it out there that man evolved from apes, theologically they are affecting many people who are Christians, who believe God created us," says Bishop Boniface Adoyo, who is leading a campaign against the exhibit.

"It's creating a big weapon against Christians that's killing our faith," he says, calling evolution theory an "insult" and dangerous to youths. "When children go to museums, they'll start believing we evolved from these apes.

"This is not the truth," says Adoyo, pastor of Nairobi's Christ Is the Answer Ministries and chairperson of the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya, which claims to represent churches of 35 denominations with nine million members.

"I can't stand it; neither can other Christians," he says.

The bishop's high-profile drive to force the government-funded museum to downgrade what is arguably its most important collection has put him squarely at odds with the scientific community and curators.

Many of the fossils were discovered by legendary palaeontologists Louis and Mary Leakey in East Africa, whose prehistoric finds around the Olduvai Gorge, Lake Victoria and Lake Turkana are seen by many as proof of Darwin's theory.

Their son, Richard, himself a noted anthropologist and conservationist, is particularly disturbed by the furore and is speaking out against what he says is a misguided attempt to reject sound science.

"The church is being ridiculous," he says. "The church leaders are out of step. They should concentrate on their faith and leave scientists to concentrate on their historical work and defend it.

"Evolution theory is accepted across the world. This is scientific history and Kenya has the best of this evolutional history. Globally, few can match that claim to fame."

Officials at the museum, which houses priceless items including remains of hominid species dating back 1,7-million to 1,2-million years, are loath to get involved in the fractious debate, but defend the exhibition.

"The fossils have confirmed Kenya's position as the cradle of mankind and have drawn large numbers of visitors," the museum said in a statement released shortly after Adoyo launched his campaign.

In an e-mail response to questions posed by Agence France-Presse, NMK director general Farah Iddle said the museum "strives to accommodate divergent views and ideas".

"However, it also has the responsibility of ensuring that the integral research findings that have been developed over time are preserved," he said. "This includes the fossil collection that's the scientific evidence that shows the relationship between apes' fossils dated millions of years back and the modern man."

Exact display plans for the exhibit when the 75-year-old museum reopens in June 2007 are still being discussed, but officials said they hope to keep it in a position of prominence among three redesigned galleries.

What will not likely change, they say, is the placement of a huge bronze sculpture outside the museum's main gate, which depicts a series of figures from ape to humans gradually becoming more erect as they walk. -- AFP

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=283126&area=/insight/insight__africa/

dsanthony
09-05-2006, 10:54 PM
Interesting. You should research how many black american christians share the same views on evolution. Most US blacks identify themselves as conservative christians and if they voted their conscience would be solidly in the republican column.

Labrocca
09-05-2006, 11:37 PM
You know that's the one thing I don't understand. Why are the majority of registered black voters democrats?

AlonzoMourning23
09-06-2006, 12:00 AM
You know that's the one thing I don't understand.Â*Â*Why are the majority of registered black voters democrats?Â*Â*


Probably for the same reasons homosexuals are overwhelmingly democrat, they see the republicans as weak on civil rights, or even harmful. The likes of George Allen, trent lott and others aren't helping. Also, while they are more socially conservative, blacks (I think anyway) are generally more liberal on social programs and on international affairs, like the war in Iraq.

Though I'm not really sure why race is even being mentioned here.

dsanthony
09-06-2006, 12:35 AM
Most blacks are dems because they are addicted to the cycle of welfare, victimization and racism that the dems have trapped them in. An alcoholic will cling to the enabler, as long as they are allowed to indulge in their addiction. Republicans demand simply that blacks be responsible and accountable for their actions and choices. Dems cry "racism" every time a black is held responsible for their action. The adults among the blacks are switching to the Repubs, but it will be a slow process of recovery.

AlonzoMourning23
09-06-2006, 12:59 AM
Most blacks are dems because they are addicted to the cycle of welfare, victimization and racism that the dems have trapped them in.Â*Â*An alcoholic will cling to the enabler, as long as they are allowed to indulge in their addiction.Â*Â*Republicans demand simply that blacks be responsible and accountable for their actions and choices.Â*Â*Dems cry "racism" every time a black is held responsible for their action.Â*Â*The adults among the blacks are switching to the Repubs, but it will be a slow process of recovery.


Dems cry racism everytime blacks as a whole are held responsible for the actions of a black person. Dems cry racism when blacks are arrested, convicted etc. at levels that well exceed rate that whites are arrested convicted etc., even when the crime rate itself is adjusted so they are equal. Dems cry racism when blacks recieve tougher sentences for committing the same crime as whites. There's no better example of this than drugs. Blacks are arrested and jailed at much higher rates for drug possession, despite the fact that blacks are not statistically prone to drug use more than anyone else. Dems cry racism when blacks recieve lower pay despite having equal qualifications. Much of this is not so much intentional, as its black people are more likely to be viewed negatively. Sometimes names alone can be problematic, like being named Chaniqua.

Then there's the belief among some that centuries of racism, poverty etc. can instantly disappear with a change of law. As if growing up in poverty has absolutely no effect on long term development. Oddly, those same people seem to have no issue in believing they can give their kids advantages through wealth, yet the idea that there can be disadvantages from lack of wealth is rejected.

And, again, the likes of George Allen, Trent Lott etc. aren't going to endear republicans to black voters either. The biggest stain on modern democrats is trent lott, and that's definately not for his voting record, as he has recieved 100% ratings from the NAACP on issues they were concerned about.

Its intellectually shallow to think that everything can be solved by just a few magic words, and it's foolish to think that dismissing opposing views as simply the result of them being childish will do anything but turn those people against you even more.

And, again, I go back to the point I was asking earlier. For all your complaints about black culture, do you think there will always be a higher rate of crime and violence among blacks due to their nature? Is it realistic to think their rates can equal that of whites? If you reject things such as poverty, colonialism, racism etc. as reasons for such differences, why is it that Africa is so poor and corrupt? Aren't these things always going to be present to a greater degree in blacks?

CheesyMuslim
09-06-2006, 01:26 AM
You know that's the one thing I don't understand.Â*Â*Why are the majority of registered black voters democrats?Â*Â*


Sorry bout that,

1. The main reason is, they loved JFK.
2. Now those who remember JFK are old grandpa's and grandma's.
3. And they brain wash their children to vote the same way they do.
4. To honor JFK, the one white dude they loved.
5. Also they think the Democrats really support their cause, which in reality they do less than the Republicans.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

lily
09-06-2006, 01:46 AM
alonzomourning23

Blacks are arrested and jailed at much higher rates for drug possession, despite the fact that blacks are not statistically prone to drug use more than anyone else.

Out of your entire post, I'm going to have to disagree with this one sentence.

Cocaine is a White person's drug, for the most part. Crack is a Black person's drug, due mainly to cost.

Cocaine possession carries a lighter sentence than crack.

dsanthony
09-06-2006, 02:09 AM
The difference, of course, is that most (or a good number) of "white" drug users go to work everyday to pay for their drugs. They rarely come under the police radar, unless they are dealing in large quantities or just happen to get pulled over.

The "blacks" who are so highly arrested are as often as not caught in some illegal activity to pay for their drugs (robbery, pimping, prostitution, etc) which makes them targets for the police.

AlonzoMourning23
09-06-2006, 02:17 AM
Out of your entire post, I'm going to have to disagree with this one sentence.

Cocaine is a White person's drug, for the most part. Crack is a Black person's drug, due mainly to cost.

Cocaine possession carries a lighter sentence than crack



Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the disagreement.

The difference, of course, is that most (or a good number) of "white" drug users go to work everyday to pay for their drugs. They rarely come under the police radar, unless they are dealing in large quantities or just happen to get pulled over.

The "blacks" who are so highly arrested are as often as not caught in some illegal activity to pay for their drugs (robbery, pimping, prostitution, etc) which makes them targets for the police.

According to federal statistics gathered by the Sentencing Project, only 13 percent of monthly drug users of all illegal drugs--defined as those who use a drug at least once a month on a regular basis--are black, about their proportion of the population. But 37 percent of drug-offense arrests are black; 53 percent of convictions are black; and 67 percent of all people imprisoned for drug offenses are black. Adding in Latinos, about 22 percent of all monthly drug users are black or Latino, but 80 percent of people in prison for drug offenses are black or Latino.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060710/glasser

These are arrests for drug offenses, not other crimes being done to get money to buy drugs.

Whites are getting arrested, not at the same rates but at higher rates than convictions and imprisonment suggests. Last time I mentioned this your response was:

actually, i agree.

http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=1134&pid=9330#pid9330

What changed?

And, again, I look around the world and see africans are, by and large, poorer than non africans in their countries. How do you explain that?

Nathan Brazil
09-06-2006, 06:11 AM
So African Christians are upset by an exhibit promoting evolution?Â*Â*That's really really good news.

I thought maybe it was only the American christians that were crazy.

Funny how the thread immediately devolved onto a discussion of race and drugs...

dsanthony
09-06-2006, 01:19 PM
Yes, I don't know who brought up drugs. I was merely pointing out that the majority of black americans share their christian viewpoint with the majority of black africans. If zo is going to criticize black africans, he should also criticize black americans.

AlonzoMourning23
09-07-2006, 01:22 AM
Ummm....... where did I criticize black africans or christians as a whole?

Anti-Racism
10-01-2006, 05:57 PM
The Origins of Man exhibit, comprised of prehistoric finds from around Africa's Great Rift Valley, considered by many to be the cradle of humanity, is offensive as it promotes Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, they say.


I got up and looked in the mirror this morning and I still don't look like Brad Pitt. I'm offended. Reality is offensive. Please help me make reality illegal.