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Saigio
04-11-2008, 06:24 PM
What is Socialism?

We often here conservatives accusing liberals of being socialists. But what does it mean? Is it really synonymous with the left? Or is it more then that?

Well, Wikipedia says “Socialism refers to the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community”

Now, what does that mean? It means that in a Socialist society, the wealth of the nation is redistributed, or spread out, by the community. Pretty simple.

Now, let’s look at what liberalism is. Again, Wikipedia:
“Liberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal.”

And, because it will come up later, let’s look at what Conservatism is. Wikipedia:
“Conservatism is a term used to describe political philosophies that favor tradition and gradual change, where tradition refers to religious, cultural, or nationally defined beliefs and customs.”

In other words, it’s the idea of looking to the well being of the peoples freedom. Again, simple concept.

Let’s compare the two.
Personal freedom.
Redistribute wealth.

Huh. Is it just me, or are those two at odds? Redistributing wealth would hurt personal freedom, wouldn’t it? It would be taking economic freedom away.

Okay then, let’s take a closer look at socialism

Socialism is a political system. Like Democracy, a Republic, a Monarchy, or any other kind. Like the different types of political systems, it has its variations. Communism, National Socialists, etc. Not all Socialist governments are leftist. National Socialism, one of the more famous examples being the Nazis. Now, looking at what we know about Nazis, they wanted to promote what they saw as their old traditions, and get rid of those that did not conform, we see a correlation with Conservatism. That correlation is the strong belief in tradition. This would dispel the myth that all Socialism is the same as Liberalism.

“What about the fact that all liberals are socialists” That too is untrue. Not all liberals want to redistribute the wealth. If it was that way, wouldn’t all rich liberals be giving away their wealth? Since they don’t, that would be proof that not all liberals are socialists.
So, in conclusion: Because not all socialist governments are liberal governments, saying that all socialists are liberals is inaccurate. Because, obviously, not all liberals are socialists, calling all liberals socialists is silly.
Not all liberals are socialists, not all socialists, and the same is true for conservatives and socialists. Socialism is a system that can encompass both the left and right.

I hope I have dispelled some myths about socialism and liberalism and conservatism. Thank you for your time.
-Saigio

Sources
Liberalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
Conservatism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism
Socialism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

David
04-12-2008, 12:19 AM
Um, no.

Socialism as shown in the Political Compass is far left and far left moderate center, liberalism is near right and near right up, conservatism is moderately right and near right near down and fascism (Nationalist Socialism) is extreme right and near right extreme up.

You are correct however is your claim that liberalism =/= socialism if not in how you explained it.

Drocket
04-12-2008, 01:27 AM
And to add to what David said:

And, because it will come up later, let’s look at what Conservatism is. Wikipedia:
“Conservatism is a term used to describe political philosophies that favor tradition and gradual change, where tradition refers to religious, cultural, or nationally defined beliefs and customs.”

In other words, it’s the idea of looking to the well being of the peoples freedom. Again, simple concept.

Please highlight the section you quoted about conservatism where it even mentions freedom. The section in your brain that says "conservatism == good, freedom == good, therefore conservatism == freedom" does not qualify. Thank you.

Buck Laser
04-12-2008, 04:18 AM
It doesn't really matter whether socialism actually equates to liberalism. What matters is that they can fool enough people into believing them. Right wingers don't need truth when they've got propaganda and a gullible public.

David
04-12-2008, 01:01 PM
Yes, but I get insulted when liberals and socialists get thrown together. I'm not a liberal you Right-Wing fools! :fight:

Also, libs are on the Right. :lmao:

preservanation
04-12-2008, 02:24 PM
If liberals don't like being labeled as socialists maybe they should stop proposing Marxist policies.

I can understand how some on the left resent this but I never hear them opposing their leftist politicians or candidates, nor their Communist solutions for our society.

The easiest way to dispel the socialist association is to, well, let's see...stop associating.

Buck Laser
04-12-2008, 03:05 PM
If liberals don't like being labeled as socialists maybe they should stop proposing Marxist policies.

I can understand how some on the left resent this but I never hear them opposing their leftist politicians or candidates, nor their Communist solutions for our society.

The easiest way to dispel the socialist association is to, well, let's see...stop associating.
Preserv, you seem to be willing to label any policy or idea that you don't like as "Marxist." I guess that makes it easier for you to demonize people you don't like. So every major European nation has universal health care, and you call it Marxist because you don't like it, despite the fact that they're all democracies.

So, just to even things out, I've come to the conclusion that you are in fact a Crypto-Marxist. How do ya like THEM apples, Professor Marx? :blah:

preservanation
04-12-2008, 03:17 PM
Ok, Buckster!
List some Liberal policies which Can't be labeled as socialism.
You big socialist!:blah:

Buck Laser
04-12-2008, 03:46 PM
Ok, Buckster!
List some Liberal policies which Can't be labeled as socialism.
You big socialist!:blah:

Yeah? Well up yours you coprophagic proto-Marxist doodoo head!!:drool:

David
04-12-2008, 09:02 PM
:unreal:

Liberals are as socialistic as social democrats are fascist which is to say they're not.

Now stop associating liberals with my ideology, you're making us socialist look bad. :lmao:

Osborn F. Enready
04-14-2008, 03:42 PM
Socialists need no help in looking bad.... ;)

Pookie
04-14-2008, 03:49 PM
Ehhh...I'm a liberal, but socialism is a little too extreme for me.
Purrs,
Pookie

David
04-15-2008, 12:43 AM
Ehhh...I'm a liberal, but socialism is a little too extreme for me.
Purrs,
Pookie

Social democracy then? As close as you can get and still be capitalist. I'm a democratic socialist myself. As close as you can get to capitalism and still be socialist.

Osborn F. Enready
04-15-2008, 02:06 AM
Do you understand that socialism and capitalism are DIRECTLY antithetical economics systems?

Its like saying you are only "a little" pregnant.

David
04-15-2008, 03:28 AM
Do you understand that socialism and capitalism are DIRECTLY antithetical economics systems?

Its like saying you are only "a little" pregnant.

Indeed. The difference between an extremist (communist) and moderate (me) is in how fast you want the revolution to move. Thus I can advocate semi-capitalism, but the end game will be it's extinction. A communist will just line all the capitalists up and shoot them and be done with it, someone like me would rather faze it out and wait 100-200 years to avoid unnecessary bloodshed. Thus when I say almost capitalist, what I mean is I'm not advocating wiping capitalism out all at once. In a democratic socialist society, society evolves out of capitalism (unless the capitalists start a war) rather then fight their way out.

Osborn F. Enready
04-15-2008, 07:24 AM
I am glad you stated that, so I have no compunction about treating you or those like you, as you should be treated.... as tyrannical dictators deserving only the value of the bullet used to put you down and end your denial of individual rights to honest, law abiding people.

Let me guess, your REAL name is Rockefeller? Roosevelt? Clinton? Obama? McCain? Marx? Engels?

At least you are open and honest about being devoid of logic and reason as an operational tool and guiding force in your life, so kudos for that. You admit you only want to imprison peoples children and grand children, not actually THEM......

Very benevolent for someone who holds dear such monstrous and self-debillitating values.

All well and good until you infringe on my rights....or those I care about. Not all people are born devoid of a spine.