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Easy90
04-11-2008, 07:07 PM
Let's 'Surge' Some More
By MICHAEL YON
April 11, 2008

It is said that generals always fight the last war. But when David Petraeus came to town it was senators – on both sides of the aisle – who battled over the Iraq war of 2004-2006. That war has little in common with the war we are fighting today.

I may well have spent more time embedded with combat units in Iraq than any other journalist alive. I have seen this war – and our part in it – at its brutal worst. And I say the transformation over the last 14 months is little short of miraculous.

The change goes far beyond the statistical decline in casualties or incidents of violence. A young Iraqi translator, wounded in battle and fearing death, asked an American commander to bury his heart in America. Iraqi special forces units took to the streets to track down terrorists who killed American soldiers. The U.S. military is the most respected institution in Iraq, and many Iraqi boys dream of becoming American soldiers. Yes, young Iraqi boys know about "GoArmy.com."

As the outrages of Abu Ghraib faded in memory – and paled in comparison to al Qaeda's brutalities – and our soldiers under the Petraeus strategy got off their big bases and out of their tanks and deeper into the neighborhoods, American values began to win the war.

Iraqis came to respect American soldiers as warriors who would protect them from terror gangs. But Iraqis also discovered that these great warriors are even happier helping rebuild a clinic, school or a neighborhood. They learned that the American soldier is not only the most dangerous enemy in the world, but one of the best friends a neighborhood can have.

Some people charge that we have merely "rented" the Sunni tribesmen, the former insurgents who now fight by our side. This implies that because we pay these people, their loyalty must be for sale to the highest bidder. But as Gen. Petraeus demonstrated in Nineveh province in 2003 to 2004, many of the Iraqis who filled the ranks of the Sunni insurgency from 2003 into 2007 could have been working with us all along, had we treated them intelligently and respectfully. In Nineveh in 2003, under then Maj. Gen. Petraeus's leadership, these men – many of them veterans of the Iraqi army – played a crucial role in restoring civil order. Yet due to excessive de-Baathification and the administration's attempt to marginalize powerful tribal sheiks in Anbar and other provinces – including men even Saddam dared not ignore – we transformed potential partners into dreaded enemies in less than a year.

Then al Qaeda in Iraq, which helped fund and tried to control the Sunni insurgency for its own ends, raped too many women and boys, cut off too many heads, and brought drugs into too many neighborhoods. By outraging the tribes, it gave birth to the Sunni "awakening." We – and Iraq – got a second chance. Powerful tribes in Anbar province cooperate with us now because they came to see al Qaeda for what it is – and to see Americans for what we truly are.

Soldiers everywhere are paid, and good generals know it is dangerous to mess with a soldier's money. The shoeless heroes who froze at Valley Forge were paid, and when their pay did not come they threatened to leave – and some did. Soldiers have families and will not fight for a nation that allows their families to starve. But to say that the tribes who fight with us are "rented" is perhaps as vile a slander as to say that George Washington's men would have left him if the British offered a better deal.

Equally misguided were some senators' attempts to use Gen. Petraeus's statement, that there could be no purely military solution in Iraq, to dismiss our soldiers' achievements as "merely" military. In a successful counterinsurgency it is impossible to separate military and political success. The Sunni "awakening" was not primarily a military event any more than it was "bribery." It was a political event with enormous military benefits.

The huge drop in roadside bombings is also a political success – because the bombings were political events. It is not possible to bury a tank-busting 1,500-pound bomb in a neighborhood street without the neighbors noticing. Since the military cannot watch every road during every hour of the day (that would be a purely military solution), whether the bomb kills soldiers depends on whether the neighbors warn the soldiers or cover for the terrorists. Once they mostly stood silent; today they tend to pick up their cell phones and call the Americans. Even in big "kinetic" military operations like the taking of Baqubah in June 2007, politics was crucial. Casualties were a fraction of what we expected because, block-by-block, the citizens told our guys where to find the bad guys. I was there; I saw it.

The Iraqi central government is unsatisfactory at best. But the grass-roots political progress of the past year has been extraordinary – and is directly measurable in the drop in casualties.

This leads us to the most out-of-date aspect of the Senate debate: the argument about the pace of troop withdrawals. Precisely because we have made so much political progress in the past year, rather than talking about force reduction, Congress should be figuring ways and means to increase troop levels. For all our successes, we still do not have enough troops. This makes the fight longer and more lethal for the troops who are fighting. To give one example, I just returned this week from Nineveh province, where I have spent probably eight months between 2005 to 2008, and it is clear that we remain stretched very thin from the Syrian border and through Mosul. Vast swaths of Nineveh are patrolled mostly by occasional overflights.

We know now that we can pull off a successful counterinsurgency in Iraq. We know that we are working with an increasingly willing citizenry. But counterinsurgency, like community policing, requires lots of boots on the ground. You can't do it from inside a jet or a tank.

Over the past 15 months, we have proved that we can win this war. We stand now at the moment of truth. Victory – and a democracy in the Arab world – is within our grasp. But it could yet slip away if our leaders remain transfixed by the war we almost lost, rather than focusing on the war we are winning today.

Mr. Yon is author of the just-published "Moment of Truth in Iraq" (Richard Vigilante Books). He has been reporting from Iraq and Afghanistan since December 2004.

LINK (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120787343563306609.html?mod=opinion_main_comment aries)

potter
04-11-2008, 10:37 PM
Yea..lets surge some more.

With defense sucking up 42% of every tax dollar and interest on the national debt sucking up another 10% it's just what we need to do.

Truth_and_Power
04-11-2008, 11:05 PM
Yea..lets surge some more.

With defense sucking up 42% of every tax dollar and interest on the national debt sucking up another 10% it's just what we need to do.

Now THAT would be a rebate...

Trish
04-12-2008, 06:28 AM
I was particularly struck by the following paragaraphs.



I may well have spent more time embedded with combat units in Iraq than any other journalist alive. I have seen this war – and our part in it – at its brutal worst. And I say the transformation over the last 14 months is little short of miraculous.

We know now that we can pull off a successful counterinsurgency in Iraq. We know that we are working with an increasingly willing citizenry. But counterinsurgency, like community policing, requires lots of boots on the ground. You can't do it from inside a jet or a tank.

Over the past 15 months, we have proved that we can win this war. We stand now at the moment of truth. Victory – and a democracy in the Arab world – is within our grasp. But it could yet slip away if our leaders remain transfixed by the war we almost lost, rather than focusing on the war we are winning today.



In my opinion that last sentence says it all.

Drocket
04-12-2008, 06:53 AM
This is why I ALMOST hope McCain wins. Because once Obama wins (and lets face it - he is), the neocons are going to spend the next 40 years claiming that we were winning in Iraq right up until those evil, traitorous liberals stopped us. Vietnam, verse two. A McCain victory would pretty much kill that theory, and maybe then we could focus on solving problems within our powers instead of wishing for ponies.

Trish
04-12-2008, 07:04 AM
It won't be just the "liberals" at fault if we fail in Iraq. The long delay in changing strategies in Iraq, which can be laid squarely on the front steps of the WH, will certainly figure prominently into the mix.

I do agree with Yon on one point - we have to stop looking at what was and what should have been and focus on what is and what will be.

ViolaLee
04-12-2008, 07:32 AM
How do you win an occupation?

How is the surge working when the Iraqi government is still inept and weak and only passed 4 of the 18 benchmark bills they are supposed to be passing?

Why do we have to read these right wing propaganda Wall Street Journal, Rupert Murdock owned opinion pieces?

ECW
04-12-2008, 08:00 AM
They lost the peace 1800 days ago and still haven't figured out how to get us out of Iraq in under 100 years. It was not a surge as much as it was an escalation because a surge implies an eventual reduction in force and that is not happening. It's an escalation.

Easy90
04-12-2008, 02:20 PM
How do you win an occupation?

How is the surge working when the Iraqi government is still inept and weak and only passed 4 of the 18 benchmark bills they are supposed to be passing?

Why do we have to read these right wing propaganda Wall Street Journal, Rupert Murdock owned opinion pieces?

You don't have to do anything Viola...You just stick with Michael Moore...He's more your speed.

preservanation
04-12-2008, 06:19 PM
How is the surge working when the Iraqi government is still inept and weak and only passed 4 of the 18 benchmark bills they are supposed to be passing?

Wrong...As the tally below shows, the Government of Iraq has now met 12 out of the original 18 benchmarks set for it, including four
out of the six key legislative benchmarks. It has made substantial progress on five more, and only one remains truly stalled. One can argue about the scoring of this or that benchmark, but the overall picture is very clear: before the surge began, the Iraqi Government had accomplished none of the benchmarks and was on the way to accomplishing very few. As the surge winds down, it has accomplished around two-thirds of them and is moving ahead on almost all of the remainder. To say in the face of these facts that Iraq has made "little" or "no" political progress is simply false-to-fact. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/933bmtiu.asp

Scribbler1
04-12-2008, 06:22 PM
You don't have to do anything Viola...You just stick with Michael Moore...He's more your speed.I suppose then you could just stick with Rush Limbaugh. Two sides of the same coin.

Pookie
04-12-2008, 10:41 PM
Yuck! I don't like either one of them. They're both a little extreme for me.
I'm not altogether really sure this war is winnable, nor am I really sure Iraq will stay a democracy. I was never for this war to begin with, but we're in it, so at least let's win the damn thing and start fixing our own country.
Purrs,
Pookie

Scribbler1
04-12-2008, 11:10 PM
IMO, the only way to "win" this thing is to leave a government in place that is tough enough to do EXACTLY the same things Saddam Hussein did. He scared the hell out of them to the point that slaughtering their "enemies" was unthinkable.

Even if we could pacify the country, as soon as we left they'd start it all over again. Having Hussein, Maliki or the occupation forces in charge may quiet them down, but it WON'T mollify large groups of people who despise each other.

"Democracy" and peaceful coexistence just doesn't seem to be to everyone's liking.

apdst
04-14-2008, 01:19 AM
With defense sucking up 42% of every tax dollar and interest on the national debt sucking up another 10% it's just what we need to do.

We could simply divert the half million dollars a month that is being spent to protect presidential candidates toward the war effort.

the neocons are going to spend the next 40 years claiming that we were winning in Iraq right up until those evil, traitorous liberals stopped us.

And that's exactly how history will remember things, too.

How is the surge working when the Iraqi government is still inept and weak and only passed 4 of the 18 benchmark bills they are supposed to be passing?

The Iraqi government has accomplished more in the past thirty days than our own congress has.

Scribbler1
04-14-2008, 03:14 AM
We could simply divert the half million dollars a month that is being spent to protect presidential candidates toward the war effort.Good thinking. That should cover about TWO MINUTES of the Iraq war.
But we'll need more. Whaddya have in your pockets?

apdst
04-14-2008, 04:17 AM
That should cover about TWO MINUTES of the Iraq war.

We need to kill more of the enemy, in less time. Kinda like a construction job.

"The primary objective of any military campaign is to do the most amount of damage in the least amount of time" -George S. Patton, Jr.

Scribbler1
04-14-2008, 05:02 AM
Well, that's just it, isn't it? We have done PLENTY of damage and nothing of substance has been accomplished yet.

apdst
04-14-2008, 07:03 AM
We have done PLENTY of damage and nothing of substance has been accomplished yet.

We need to stop fighting a politically correct, touchy feely war and eradicate the enemy and his ability to replenish his combat power. That's what warfare is all about.

ViolaLee
04-14-2008, 07:41 AM
How do we surge some more when the military is stretched thin and broken?

Easy90
04-14-2008, 08:44 PM
How do we surge some more when the military is stretched thin and broken?

Who's military is broken?

Wndrtch
04-14-2008, 09:06 PM
How do you win an occupation?

Buy building and keeping a military base, and manning it with US soldiers. Ask the Germans and the Japanese.

How is the surge working when the Iraqi government is still inept and weak and only passed 4 of the 18 benchmark bills they are supposed to be passing?

So, in your expert opinion, how long should it take to create a functioning, democratinc Government? 5 years, 10, what?

Bosnia is still working at it after thirteen years.

Post-Dayton Bosnia Still Struggles

Thirteen years have passed since the Dayton Peace Accords ended the bloody four-year conflict in 1995 that cost more than 100,000 lives, and created more than a million refugees and displaced persons. The ghosts of the war remain alive in the memory of many citizens and in the thousands of cemeteries that dot the landscape across the country. And although Dayton ended the conflict, the process of building the state has been painfully slow.

The post-Dayton Bosnian state is weak and fraught with troubles. It is expensive and inefficient, a puzzle of a tripartite presidency, two entities, three nationalities, 10 cantons, and one separate district. The government is made up of 14 ministerial cabinets, 14 parliaments and 760 deputies; each of them with their own cohorts and bureaucracies, and yet still weak against the nationalist factions that provoked the war in 1992.

"Bosnia's constitution constrains individual rights in favor of ethnic group rights and efficient and rational governance in favor of multiple layers," reports the International Crisis Group. "Many, if not most, politicians continue to pursue wartime aims, often using the language of fear that so effectively mobilized national populations during the 1990s. For the Bosniaks this means a unified state under the control of an effective central government that they dominate. For the Serbs this means their own independent state, and possibly union with Serbia. For the Croats this means their own third entity."

http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/article.aspx?id=1748

So to be fair to the Iraqis, they should have at least another 6 years to work things out.


Why do we have to read these right wing propaganda Wall Street Journal, Rupert Murdock owned opinion pieces?

Because the Left-wing propaganda publications suck so bad, they can't even give their papers away for free to keep their circulation up.

Scribbler1
04-14-2008, 09:45 PM
We need to stop fighting a politically correct, touchy feely war and eradicate the enemy and his ability to replenish his combat power. That's what warfare is all about.Right. And as soon as we can locate a bunch of Iraqis wearing UNIFORMS, and not living in the same neighborhoods as innocent civilians we can dispatch them with no problem.

The problem there is that our military is trained for, and is great at, fighting an OTHER country's military, not being cops fighting civilians engaged in a civil war. The right tool for the right job, and this is like cutting a diamond with a sledgehammer.

jafar00
04-14-2008, 10:48 PM
Well that's just it Scribbler1. You are fighting civilians, some of whom had jobs in the previous police and army of Iraq before you came in and sacked them.

Scribbler1
04-14-2008, 11:20 PM
Well that's just it Scribbler1. You are fighting civilians, some of whom had jobs in the previous police and army of Iraq before you came in and sacked them.It wasn't MY idea to do that. Trust me.

lily
04-15-2008, 03:20 AM
We need to kill more of the enemy, in less time. Kinda like a construction job.

"The primary objective of any military campaign is to do the most amount of damage in the least amount of time" -George S. Patton, Jr.

You know you may have something here.......our soldiers are the best in the world, stop pussyfooting around........this administration wants one side to rule, tell our soldiers which ones, the Sunni or the Shia, then just kill the hell out of which one we don't want in power.....it's going to end up that way anyway, so let's get to it!

apdst
04-15-2008, 05:30 AM
The problem there is that our military is trained for, and is great at, fighting an OTHER country's military, not being cops fighting civilians engaged in a civil war

The modern battlefield is very dynamic. Our soldiers have never fought a war they were trained for. The true talent that our troops possess is the ability to flex and adapt to whatever environment exists on any given battlefield. I would say that since our troops currently enjoy a 10 to 1 kill ratio, that they are pretty damned good at fighting the current war. My pesonal opinion? They should ramp that up to a 20 to 1 kill ratio.

some of whom had jobs in the previous police and army of Iraq before you came in and sacked them.

We sacked the German and Japanese militaries, too. Your point?

You know you may have something here.......our soldiers are the best in the world, stop pussyfooting around........this administration wants one side to rule, tell our soldiers which ones, the Sunni or the Shia, then just kill the hell out of which one we don't want in power.....it's going to end up that way anyway, so let's get to it!

No, you go in and hose down everyone that shoots at you, regardless of affiliation.

A little history lesson: only one time, in history, has a totally unconventional force successfully waged war. The rest were all failures, yes, even The Viet Cong. So, let's stop pretending that the insurgents are the inventors of some undefeatable strategy.