Why Conspiracy Theorists suck!

[Wndrtch]

They never have proof of a thing, only hersay and theories.

You can never dis-prove a conspiracy theory, because it doesn't exist in the first place.

Conspiracy theorists distract from the main issues, because they involve fantasy disguised as fact.

Conspiracy theorists use these conspiracies, to justify their personal point of views rather than to discover a truth.

Conspiracy theories can waste vast amounts of time and money, when people try to prove/disprove a thing that doesn't exist.

Belief in conspiracies, fosters mental disorders like paranoia and schizophrenia

[coolness28]

you would enjoy clubconspiracy.com ;)

[suedanim]

Actually, paranoia and schizophrenia are biologic diseases, having nothing to do with having theories about conspiracies. ok, well one can suffer paranoia from smokin too much weed for too long too. But, sometimes.... sometimes, they really are out to get ya.

Conspiracy theorists and liar or delusional are not necessarily interchangeable terms. It is quite appropriate, in fact responsible to question government renditions of events, especially events like Pearl Harbor or a "catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbor" or a war, resulting in hundreds of thousands of innocent lives lost, based upon one false assertion after another.

Speculation and discontent will ALWAYS be when government fails the integrity test, especially in a democracy.

[apdst]

Speculation and discontent will ALWAYS be when government fails the integrity test, especially in a democracy.

What do we have when the so called, "dissenters", fail the integrity test?

[Wndrtch]

Conspiracy theorists and liar or delusional are not necessarily interchangeable terms. It is quite appropriate, in fact responsible to question government renditions of events, especially events like Pearl Harbor or a "catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbor" or a war, resulting in hundreds of thousands of innocent lives lost, based upon one false assertion after another.

Speculation and discontent will ALWAYS be when government fails the integrity test, especially in a democracy.

I don't have a major problem with questioning Government's actions or motivations, however, I do have a problem with making stuff up just to bring down the Government.

[suedanim]

I don't have a major problem with questioning Government's actions or motivations, however, I do have a problem with making stuff up just to bring down the Government.

The vast majority of those who have questioned the official government version of events and evidence since gw took office are NOT trying to bring down the US government. We LOVE our Constitution, our form of government and many we have elected to represent us in office. The problem is that the majority of Americans now do NOT trust or believe the government. Why? Think about it.

Why would the majority of Americans doubt the governments spin about 9/11 or the Iraq prewar intelligence, the pretext for war? These are not isolated conspiracy theorists, but average, everyday Americans.

If only our weak-kneed Democrats and the few true ethical conservatives still left in Congress had brought down the Cheney-Bush cabal,maybe tens of thousands of human beings would be happy, healthy... living and we wouldn't be trying to figure out how to get ourselves out of Iraq or stuck with a $10 trillion dollar debt!! Thank the borrow and spend GOPers in this WH and Congress for that.

[Pookie]

Phew! I know lots of people who think almost everything is a conspiracy. If it's unusual, it must be a conspiracy. They waste a lot of time and emotion on worrying about things that really aren't worth worrying over.
Purrs,
Pookie

[moses2792796]

Good article on conspiracy theories:


Conspiracy Theories

You hear about them all the time; clever Jews who steal money from nations to support their Israeli state, secret Freemasonic societies that hide occult truths about a future world government, powerful capitalists holding special meetings and dangerous satanists who sacrifice children to Satan. What all of these rumours have in common, is that they constitute what we often call "conspiracies," or the belief that historical, political and/or social events can be attributed the power of a secret group.

There are different reasons to why conspiracy theories exist. Psychologically, it has to do with the mentality of most people. Even though politics and history are two very complex subjects, even more complex when you try to root out the cause to why certain things happen or do not happen, people like to simplify truth, because it's most convenient. Studying the underlying truth to certain events require some basic intelligence, fair study of history and a clear and open mind. This is too much to ask of creatures that spend their life working in an office, paying bills and watching TV.

So when things become too complicated, we simply look for a fitting scapegoat and attack that. It makes us feel powerful and good inside, knowing we've got someone or something to put the blame on for the events that are taking place. But conspiracy thinking has also a lot to do with the religious side of man. People tend to believe instead of study the truth. Religion is like a safety circle; as long as you're in it and repeat the dogmatic message, you're "OK." This is how millions of people can become obsessed with ideas they believe is real, without having anything to do with the actual reality. Truth is not their concern; they want to live in their fairy tale world where everything function according to their social agreements.

Conspiracy theories move our focus away from how a system operates, to who's operating it. Herein lies the problem. When speaking of a whole society, nothing is ever solved by attacking people, rather than attacking ideas. The result of conspiracy thinking is therefore witch hunting; Neo-Nazis hunt down Jews, Leftists hunt down capitalists, Conservatives hunt down homosexuals and Christians hunt down Satanists. Among all this mess, the problems are still there, since no one's paid attention to them, rather than to figure out who were behind them.

Some people will stop here and say, "Look, Freemasons, Zionists and rich capitalists actually exist. Have you heard of the Bilderberg group? Illuminati?" Of course, we all have, but the question is: Does It Matter?

Conspiracy thinking divides people and creates two camps: those who believe and those who do not. This means that even if a conspiracy idea is true or partly true, and someone is able to debunk that conspiracy, the problem no longer exists. If you claim powerful capitalists are plotting to take over the world, and someone manages to prove your religious theories wrong, no one will bother listening to those who actually have something intelligent to say on the matter.

In other words, it's not really of any interest if these conspiracy groups and their activities actually exist or not. Nothing will ever be won by attacking groups or minorities, because that will always be either laughed at or condemned, allowing the secret societies to continue as before. In order to change a society one needs to change the system. Change the system and the conspiracy groups can no longer operate as intended.

There will always be people who dislike the current society and form groups inside of it, to try to counter it with "new ideas." These people are disillusioned, because you cannot reform a society by hiding inside of it or rebelling against it as an external force. You need to be an active part of it and change it from within, not as some secular sect, but as a public figure that has got a new, better way of running things.

This is not to say that conspiracies are harmless. History shows that small groups can earn a lot of influential power. Therefore a healthy society strives to create a strong consensus on values, suppressing those who try to create divisions among the people. In this light we understand that conspiracy thinking is neither harmless nor really effective. Intelligent people analyze events intelligently. They look at the structure of things, examine the design of political, social and religious systems, and find the weak holes.

Conspiracy thinkers are correct in that certain groups are able to take advantage of those holes, but are wrong in how to proceed. If we fix the hole, or in some cases reform the whole system, the "outsiders" haven't much to beg for. That is what Freemasons, wealthy capitalists and Zionists fear and that is where the ultimate solution to the problem lies.

by Alex Birch

[Keith Hamburger]

While I don't buy that the "conspiracy theorists" have all the answers, neither do I accept that our government has answered the questions posed. I'm not one to say that secret societies are controlling everything throughout history, but those that say there do not exist organizations with power that work to their own ends are absolutely wrong, too.

What do you have to contrast with conspiracy theories of history?

Conspiracy theorists, no matter how far out they are, believe that there are people that work with one another through power structures to their own ends. Do you propose that doesn't happen? Do you think that all of the events in history just randomly occur with no outside influence?

It is fairly obvious that Churchill (as a First Lord of the Admiralty) and Wilson (as president, of course) conspired to drag the US into World War I. On my part this isn't a claim that they did so for some nefarious means beyond what they thought best for society, but it was done. Or, do you believe that this never happened, that the US and Britain independently decided that US involvement in the war was a good idea? I find such a belief, that there was no coordinated efforts, to be far more unsupportable.

Either historical events just happen, or people take actions, often consciously, that bring about historical events. Those are really the two choices.

To me, it is fairly obvious that people cause history to happen, history doesn't just happen to people.

Keith

[Easy90]

"The problem is that the majority of Americans now do NOT trust or believe the government"

Got a source for that? And if so, is it reliable, or is it biased? And if so, can you cite a time when most Americans DID "trust or believe the government?" And if so, can you cite a reliable, actual, unbiased general cause?

You tin-foil hat people qwack me up!

[moses2792796]

You can't prove beyond doubt that statement Easy90, however it only takes simple logic to determine that it is probably true. Back in the day when communications were less available, the average citizen had no reason to distrust the government, especially pre-WW1 the distance between the individual and their government (in America) was so great it's hard to imagine that people would have been overly concerned about anything the government did that didn't affect them. Nowadays everyone is constantly bombarded by conflicting stories from every direction, there is a sense of urgency, the media and other sources obscure truth, the government feels closer to the average citizen than ever before. For these reasons it seem highly likely that many Americans do not trust their government, this is not even taking into account the actual actions of the government itself, which would (for many people) multiply the level of distrust.

[Scribbler1]

"The problem is that the majority of Americans now do NOT trust or believe the government"

Got a source for that? And if so, is it reliable, or is it biased?I would think the horrible approval ratings for Bush and the LOWER ratings for Congress would easily make that case. The President and the Congress together pretty much ARE the government.

[Wndrtch]

The vast majority of those who have questioned the official government version of events and evidence since gw took office are NOT trying to bring down the US government. We LOVE our Constitution, our form of government and many we have elected to represent us in office. The problem is that the majority of Americans now do NOT trust or believe the government. Why? Think about it.

I know why.

It's because one political party has opted to use the Herr Joseph Goebbels tactics to win power back. The Democrats has foisted a steady diet of "Tell a big lie, long enough..." on the American public for the last 5 years, with the montra "Bush Lied, Bush Evil" BS, when the truth is that the modern World is at war with extreme 7th centrury Islam and Bush is the only World leader in the last 100 years to deal with it directly.

I't not hard to understand at all, how the average American can think that the professionals hired to protect them are their enemy, given the Billions that the Dems have spent on spinning the war they way they want.

Why would the majority of Americans doubt the governments spin about 9/11 or the Iraq prewar intelligence, the pretext for war? These are not isolated conspiracy theorists, but average, everyday Americans.

Good Marketing by the Left.

[Scribbler1]

I know why.

It's because one political party has opted to use the Herr Joseph Goebbels tactics to win power back. The Democrats has foisted a steady diet of "Tell a big lie, long enough..." on the American public for the last 5 years, with the montra "Bush Lied, Bush Evil" BS, when the truth is that the modern World is at war with extreme 7th centrury Islam and Bush is the only World leader in the last 100 years to deal with it directly.But, everyone doesn't believe the same as you do,. hence the abysmally low approval for Bush and Congress.
You might have a better point to make if you hadn't specified "one" party as using scare tactics to gain or keep power. Rememberl Dick Cheney saying, "It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on November 2nd, we make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again," the vice president said, "that we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States, and that we'll fall back into the pre-9/11 mind-set, if you will, that in fact these terrorist attacks are just criminal acts and that we are not really at war."?
I assume you don't see the similarity between what Cheney said and YOU saying "The Democrats has foisted a steady diet of "Tell a big lie, long enough..." on the American public for the last 5 years, with the montra "Bush Lied, Bush Evil" BS..."
Fearmongering works both ways and BOTH sides are guilty of it. You merely perpetuate that as long as you fail to see it being done by the side YOU like and only denounce it on the other.

[Wndrtch]

But, everyone doesn't believe the same as you do,. hence the abysmally low approval for Bush and Congress.
You might have a better point to make if you hadn't specified "one" party as using scare tactics to gain or keep power. Rememberl Dick Cheney saying, "It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on November 2nd, we make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again," the vice president said, "that we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States, and that we'll fall back into the pre-9/11 mind-set, if you will, that in fact these terrorist attacks are just criminal acts and that we are not really at war."?
I assume you don't see the similarity between what Cheney said and YOU saying "The Democrats has foisted a steady diet of "Tell a big lie, long enough..." on the American public for the last 5 years, with the montra "Bush Lied, Bush Evil" BS..."
Fearmongering works both ways and BOTH sides are guilty of it. You merely perpetuate that as long as you fail to see it being done by the side YOU like and only denounce it on the other.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but 911 DID happen. That wasn't a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call.

Pan Am flight 103 was not a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call

The Kobar tower bombing was not a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call.

The USS Cole bombing was not a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call.

The 1993 world Trade Center bombing was not a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call.

The London train bombing was not a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call.

The plot to kill some 20,000-30,000 Spaniards was not a scare tactic, it was a wake-up call.

The plot to blow-up the Brooklyn Bridge, was not a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call.

The Millennium plot was not a scare tactic, it was a wake-up call.

It would be nice if the Dems realized that THEY are targets too, and actually got behind this effort to repell an insane ideology. But no, they would rather have power back, then keep anybody safe or even try to.

[PatrickHenry]

So why don't you wake up to the fact that you have been played for a sucker, Wndrtch?

Your money wasted, your nation's prestige and reputation squandered, the elite profiting while the rest of the nation plunges into the financial abyss?

All the while the government and the mass/mainstream media lying to you about nearly every circumstance you mentioned?

[Wndrtch]

So why don't you wake up to the fact that you have been played for a sucker, Wndrtch?

Because, you haven't given me a lolli-pop yet. No evidence, no lolli-pop, no sucker.

Your money wasted, your nation's prestige and reputation squandered, the elite profiting while the rest of the nation plunges into the financial abyss?

It's not like my money hasn't been wasted before.

The nation's reputation will come back, it always does.

"Profit" is not an evil word to me. In fact, I wouldn't mind being an elite with insane profit of my own. Besides, how many people in the US have 401K's with stock in those Evil, profiteering corporations?

All the while the government and the mass/mainstream media lying to you about nearly every circumstance you mentioned?

Again, in order to believe the conspiracy, I have to believe that thousands of people are involved, who are normaly at each other throats. Sorry, it don't make no sense.

[PatrickHenry]

Because, you haven't given me a lolli-pop yet....Illustrates why just having a computer doesn't make a person intelligent.

[Scribbler1]

I'm sorry to break it to you, but 911 DID happen. That wasn't a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call.

Pan Am flight 103 was not a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call

The Kobar tower bombing was not a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call.

The USS Cole bombing was not a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call.

The 1993 world Trade Center bombing was not a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call.

The London train bombing was not a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call.

The plot to kill some 20,000-30,000 Spaniards was not a scare tactic, it was a wake-up call.

The plot to blow-up the Brooklyn Bridge, was not a scare-tactic, it was a wake-up call.

The Millennium plot was not a scare tactic, it was a wake-up call.All correct, but that wasn't the point. If you reply to posts, you really ought to read ALL the words before you respond. I wasn't even talking about terrorism but about Cheney's use of the fear of it.
Cheney was using a simple scare tactic of saying we would be in danger if we elected Kerry over Bush.
That smacks of the tactics used by some of these third world countries where the people are afraid of voting "the wrong way" and being beaten by pro-government thugs, only Cheney used the threat of terrorism.

It would be nice if the Dems realized that THEY are targets too, and actually got behind this effort to repell an insane ideology. But no, they would rather have power back, then keep anybody safe or even try to.ALL Americans are targets, and your average Democrat is more than aware of that. Democratic politicians want power the exact same way Republican politicians do. But most voters just want competent people in office. Of course, they fail at that and that crosses across party lines.

[PatrickHenry]

Let's see if Wndrtch will deny the significance or perhaps the existence of the Order of Skull and Bones, the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations and the Bilderburg group.

See if he says there was never any such group as the Illuminati...

See if he has ever heard of the Bohemian Grove...

[Keith Hamburger]

Wow. I posted what I considered a reasonable point about the conspiracy theory of history and it's completely ignored. Instead we go to fighting about the single political party that presents itself in opposition to itself to control the people.

What more evidence do we need to show that some group of people are influencing the flow of history?

Keith