Which do you think is the freest country in the globe?

[ChingChangChewie]

United States of America is considered by most to be the freest country in the world... but current events have however left doubts about America's democrasy... which do you think is the freest of all in the globe?

[Go Fish]

America is. You should have been her when the English teachers put an emphasis on spelling, though. And the Social Studies teachers were informing us that America is a Representative Republic, as opposed to a Democracy. If memory serves, the definition of a democracy was two foxes and a chicken trying to decide what they were all going to have for lunch.
In case any of my previous words sent you into a tizzy, America is the acme of society in every respect. America is the best nation to ever grace the solar system. We are what every person on Earth aspires to. In the words of MC Hammer, "You can't touch this".

[firefox]

I would agree with Go Fish, but "most free" is becoming a lower and lower standard in real terms... :(

[Mia]

United States of America is considered by most to be the freest country in the world... but current events have however left doubts about America's democrasy... which do you think is the freest of all in the globe?

USA is not a democracy - it is a Constitutional Republic. For some reason, 'democracy' is a term that has come to used interchangeable with 'freedom', and that is not accurate.

In a pure democracy, majorities can rule over minorities.

Theoretically, in a CR, the civil liberties of all are protected, but that has been greatly eroded in the USofA - we have 'rights' that can be taken away, and that means they aren't really rights, but privileges.

Read this! http://www.dailypaul.com/node/1958

[ChingChangChewie]

sorry... for that, internet work here sucks...

[ChingChangChewie]

I argue that United States of America has long been tied with some bonds... the amendments for instant... though called the Country of Liberty, still many people stay coservative toward the changes of time... that's what makes America a bit less democratic... Each of U.S president or governors' decision will have big effects on the entire world... just like gay marriage, legalized issues... many of which got started firt in America... If U.S did not, then no other would... so the pure democrazy, or we call liberty in America is a very important event to the whole... like as a former mayor and also president-to-be of Taiwan, Ma used to claim to legalize gay marriage soon after more than five states of America do... so it's urgent we want America for more changes...!!!

[jafar00]

Norway, Sweden, Denmark and to a greater extent, Holland have taken freedom to ridiculous levels. Men can even have sex with each other in Amsterdam's main public park without being arrested now. Crazy.

[Troubadour]

"Freedom" encompasses many variables and social dimensions, so we can't arbitrarily focus on a subset and call that definitive just because we (or another country) are strong in it. For instance, while true that the Netherlands and other Scandinavian countries have many civil liberties we've always lacked or are losing, they're also considerably less tolerant of political troublemaking. If an American made "Fitna," the ensuing controversy (if any) would be short, lethargic, and limited to a handful of American activists - no one else would care, because we live in an environment of perpetual political warfare where irresponsible hyperbole is everywhere. Yet it caused outrage in Northern Europe because those societies emphasize respect and coexistence over our interpretation of political freedom - the right to pick fights.

Were I to characterize our relative levels of freedom, I would have to say they're about the same, just with different balances. We're increasingly being spied upon by our government, but hell if they're able to translate that into any direct power over us; likewise, Nordic cultures are much less tolerant of troublemaking, but they nevertheless permit it.

[Go Fish]

I can't really see the government's redistribution of wealth as in any way providing "freedom". Scandanavian countries have incredibly high tax rates.
It may be a gilded cage, but it's still a cage. With no dental plan, clearly.

[potter]

We are a nation of laws and as such there is a law on the books governing pretty much any activity an American would want to do. Many many things cannot be done without a goverment license (permission slip) from fishing, to building a deck, to owning a cat or dog.

We also have the largest per capita incarceration rate of any other nation due the the huge number of laws we must obey. We cannot leave the country without permission from the government, we cannot fly without permission from the government, and we cannot drive without permission. Every finiancial transaction no matter how small is monitored by the government and a portion confiscated. In most places you cannot own property unless you pay the government a yearly stippend for the priveledge of owning it. Our retirement funds are regulated by the government and most work activity is regulated by the government. The government can confiscate our property any time they want for any reason that suits them. The government regulates almost every industry.

The reason of "national security" has become a catch all for the government to intrude on citizens lives and trash the constitution.

I'd have to say there has to be free-er nations out there.

[Buck Laser]

How come you have Australia and New Zealand listed as one country? They're not.

[Go Fish]

We are a nation of laws and as such there is a law on the books governing pretty much any activity an American would want to do. Many many things cannot be done without a goverment license (permission slip) from fishing, to building a deck, to owning a cat or dog.

We also have the largest per capita incarceration rate of any other nation due the the huge number of laws we must obey. We cannot leave the country without permission from the government, we cannot fly without permission from the government, and we cannot drive without permission. Every finiancial transaction no matter how small is monitored by the government and a portion confiscated. In most places you cannot own property unless you pay the government a yearly stippend for the priveledge of owning it. Our retirement funds are regulated by the government and most work activity is regulated by the government. The government can confiscate our property any time they want for any reason that suits them. The government regulates almost every industry.

The reason of "national security" has become a catch all for the government to intrude on citizens lives and trash the constitution.

I'd have to say there has to be free-er nations out there.

When you figure out which one it is, let us all know. Perception is 100% of opinion.

[potter]

When you figure out which one it is, let us all know. Perception is 100% of opinion.

I'd have to live in each country to make a proper assessment.

As an American though, I don't feel very "free" at all.

[PatrickHenry]

We have certain freedoms in America.

Unfortunately, some of the freedoms are not so good...

The freedom to be homeless, the freedom to protest the President inside a cage, the freedom to get ripped off in the stock market by financial insiders...

But I don't discount the freedom to write what I like on this forum. Or the freedom to oppose the powerful on the streets of my city.

I like what Troubador had to say about the many dimensions of freedom. Some are good in the USA...some may be better in those other nations in the poll. I am not too familiar with other nations' freedoms...

[potter]

I suspect the level of freedom one has in America is directly related to the level of ones bank account.

[David]

Once upon a time (read 15 years ago) the freest and richest place to be was the good ol' USofA. Now... Not so much. Still better then N. Korea. That is a place beyond oppressed.

[potter]

Once upon a time (read 15 years ago) the freest and richest place to be was the good ol' USofA. Now... Not so much. Still better then N. Korea. That is a place beyond oppressed.

We could change the old saying "American, land of the free" to "American, there's other places that are worse"..... :)

[David]

We could change the old saying "American, land of the free" to "American, there's other places that are worse"..... :)

I say, "America, home of the sheeple and land of the all powerful corporations."

[cronic]

I suspect the level of freedom one has in America is directly related to the level of ones bank account.

Now I realize alot will call BULLSH!T on this one..
but.. I happen to agree with ya potter.

I have tried twice now to lvl my opinion on this subject and both times.. I copied and saved the postings after I finished it, to my notepad..but I never submitted them..

I'll just keep reading for now and wait until someone actually provides more info about these countries.

I can't do the poll yet..
if the skinny doesn't come out on these countries listed and/or others.. maybe I will start hittin google and doing some research myself

I have thought about moving out of the USA tho myself for a better life and a better govt for the people.

I personally wouldn't mind finding that untamed / savage land were there are no rules or govt.. but thats not a nation or a country..
thats an awesome dream.

the country I live in.. the country I can really only comment on.. I see slipping farther and farther from, for the people to, take from the people.

Would I move out of USA for a more free country to live in..
Hell ya.. In a heartbeat

Is there one?
well, there are alot of them out there.. I would like to think so

[apdst]

Norway, Sweden, Denmark and to a greater extent

Too much gun control. They are hardly free'er.

[Go Fish]

That, and they are all extremely socialist.

[PatrickHenry]

That, and they are all extremely socialist.

Do you know the meaning of that term, Go Fish?

For example, do you allege that manufacturers and exporters of Sweden, including Volvo and IKEA are owned and managed by the government of Sweden?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
Social democracy is a political ideology that emerged in the late 19th century out of the socialist movement.[1] Modern social democracy is unlike socialism in the traditional sense which aims to end the predominance of the capitalist system, or in the Marxist sense which aims to replace it entirely; instead, social democrats aim to reform capitalism democratically through state regulation and the creation of state sponsored programs and organizations which work to ameliorate or remove injustices purportedly inflicted by the capitalist market system. The term itself is also used to refer to the particular kind of society that social democrats advocate. While some consider social democracy a moderate type of socialism, others, defining socialism in the traditional or Marxist sense, reject that designation.

At most, Sweden could be considered a moderate type of socialism, not extreme, as your ignorant statement avers.

[David]

Go Fish, define socialism for me. I'll tell you if you're correct or not. I don't want an official definition ether, just what you think when someone says, "socialist" to you.

[Troubadour]

Too much gun control. They are hardly free'er.

Their governments don't torture people. Case closed.

[ViolaLee]

America is. You should have been her when the English teachers put an emphasis on spelling, though.

Now THAT'S a funny sentence.

[apdst]

Their governments don't torture people.

You don't know that.

[potter]

Too much gun control. They are hardly free'er.

Basing freedom on the right to own a gun is a little wierd.

How about basing freedom on not fearing your government to the point where you feel you need a gun?

Cause, to be honest, the only reason I feel I need a gun is to protect myself from the government.

[Mia]

Why is that weird? The freedom to own what we deem necessary or desirable, that's not part of the criteria? I agree that ONE thing isn't enough to knock a place off the 'most free' list, if that's what you meant.

I don't think I need a gun against the government. I think I need one to use on say, a crackhead thug who breaks into my place with the intent of doing me harm.

If the dog doesn't get him, I can.:bye:

[apdst]

Basing freedom on the right to own a gun is a little wierd.

Not, not really, because it's one of a our God given rights. If it's ok to to curtail, or even abolish one right, then that opens the door to curtail, or abolish all of them.

This thread is about the freest countries in The World.

Cause, to be honest, the only reason I feel I need a gun is to protect myself from the government.

The only event that would cause me to feel like I need a gun to protect myself from the government would be if their was a abolition of private gun ownership. Other than, the government has never really fucked with me.

[Mia]

Oh but they will. Especially with people like you running around supporting the removal of rights from certain individuals. Once they are removed for some, it's just a matter of time before they can be removed from all.

In fact the PA already removed some of your rights, but you didn't notice.

[Osborn F. Enready]

No matter how screwed up the U.S. currently is, I still own and have the right to own arms.

Arms are the safest store of individual liberty, and as long as a government allows individual arms ownership, it still retains the most "liberty" of the people who live under it, since that is their key to revolution or shrugging off unjust government.

A nation that doesn't trust its own people with private arms, is a nation waiting to become a victim of its own corrupt government, or another nations corrupt government.

[potter]

No matter how screwed up the U.S. currently is, I still own and have the right to own arms.



I'm still trying to decide what kind to buy and where to buy it...pawn shop or new...etc...

Just hope I get around to it before the feds attack us.

[Mia]

That is such a weird thing to say. You saw the Waco and Ruby Ridge coverage - what do you think you're going to accomplish against the Federal Government?

[potter]

That is such a weird thing to say. You saw the Waco and Ruby Ridge coverage - what do you think you're going to accomplish against the Federal Government?

I'm just trying to keep up my record of saying weird things Mia...just for you.....

[Osborn F. Enready]

Potter said:
I'm still trying to decide what kind to buy and where to buy it...

What to buy is a matter of two things:
a)What uses will you have it for....

b) Personal prefrence, since there are many offered to fit just about any purposes you may have, so then its a matter of taste and preference.

Potter said:
pawn shop or new...etc...

Pawn shops, private sales, gun shows are a great source to purchase if you know how to find a good deal, and can recognize one if you see it. You have to know a bit about guns if you intend to buy privately, unless you personally trust the person you buy it from substantially, especially regarding their knowledge of firearms. Buying a used firearm is risky for those who don't know what to look for regarding normal wear.

When you buy new, you have the company that produced it standing behind their product, and while often not necessary (assuming US produced), its nice if needed. Buying new also assures a product that is within proper tolerances for the firearm, and a stable base of measurements for future reference of wear and tear.

Let me know if you want any input, I am quite the firearm afficianado.

Potter said:
Just hope I get around to it before the feds attack us.

If I were in the market for firearms, I would be buying before the next election. If Obama or Clinton get in office, they both have anti-gun stances and both have and will support further gun restrictions, sales restrictions, etc.

I am pretty happy with my current collection, but still and always looking for good deals.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Mia said:
That is such a weird thing to say. You saw the Waco and Ruby Ridge coverage - what do you think you're going to accomplish against the Federal Government?

Mia....

What happened at Waco and Ruby Ridge were federal injustice, outrageous over-steps against private individuals.

What does that have to do with owning arms to protect citizens from governments that use abject force?

The problem with Waco and Ruby Ridge is that the local citizens didn't prevent those injustices from happening.

Weaver was innocent, but I was no fan of Koresh, it still doesn't mean I support actions such as those that were used against "them" and those who were present.

Using Weaver and Koresh as examples is not true to the necessity of individual arms ownership to defy authoritarian government though. They were not a "militia" or a "resistance movement" to tyranny, they were private individuals.

You speak of federal government and its armed authorities as being "unbeatable" which is patently false, even if limited to small arms alone in the hands of the resistance.

[potter]

What to buy is a matter of two things:
a)What uses will you have it for....

b) Personal prefrence, since there are many offered to fit just about any purposes you may have, so then its a matter of taste and preference.



Pawn shops, private sales, gun shows are a great source to purchase if you know how to find a good deal, and can recognize one if you see it. You have to know a bit about guns if you intend to buy privately, unless you personally trust the person you buy it from substantially, especially regarding their knowledge of firearms. Buying a used firearm is risky for those who don't know what to look for regarding normal wear.

When you buy new, you have the company that produced it standing behind their product, and while often not necessary (assuming US produced), its nice if needed. Buying new also assures a product that is within proper tolerances for the firearm, and a stable base of measurements for future reference of wear and tear.

Let me know if you want any input, I am quite the firearm afficianado.



If I were in the market for firearms, I would be buying before the next election. If Obama or Clinton get in office, they both have anti-gun stances and both have and will support further gun restrictions, sales restrictions, etc.

I am pretty happy with my current collection, but still and always looking for good deals.

Great advice. Accordingly I will probably buy new then. I want something easy to hold, that my wife and I can both use, that has a clip of which I can keep a couple ready.

I am a practiced marksman with a rifle, but it's been many years since I've fired a weapon. My wife, I don't believe has ever fired a weapon.

Any idea of what pricing should be?

[Mia]

I brought up WACO because they tried to use force against the government in self-defense. Didn't work out so well. I don't see how a private militia would be able to be formed, much less capable enough to fight off one of the greatest military mights in the world.

Potter, lol, I don't remember calling anything else you've said weird.

[davo]

For the free-est country, I'd have to side with the Swiss.

[David]

Swiss... Even the Germans were too scared to attack in WW2. :lmao:

100% of the adult population is military. Every house as at least 2 weapons and it's the only modern democracy. I say I must agree.

[PostmodernProphet]

Swiss... Even the Germans were too scared to attack in WW2. :lmao:

100% of the adult population is military. Every house as at least 2 weapons and it's the only modern democracy. I say I must agree.

on the other hand, each house has two weapons because the government requires it, not because each homeowner desires two weapons.....one strike against freedom right out of the gate.....

[Osborn F. Enready]

Switzerland is also a burgeoning welfare state, which like all welfare states, will fall to its demise by cutting its own lifeline.

You can only rob peter to pay paul as long as peter has money. Eventually peter will run dry, and consequently, so will paul.

[davo]

Its also legal in Switzerland to make your own black powder :D