Gay Rights and Marriage-A few Questions

[Sublimating]

Does society (The people) have the right to choose which relationships they will allow, recognize as legal, promote and or encourage through the provision of incentives and or benefits?

Society has regulated marriage historically in many ways.

1. We regulate marriage through age; you cannot marry a 12 year old.
2. We regulate marriage through ancestry; you cannot marry your sister.
3. We regulate marriage through numerics, you cannot marry 2 people.
4. We regulate marriage through sex, you cannot marry you own sex.

There was a time when we also regulated marriage by race; blacks were not allowed to marry whites. Ultimately, society decided that it was unethical to invalidate, deny or refuse to legally recognize a marriage based on race.

Does the fact that this decision was made with regards to race dictate that it should and will be made in regards to sex or any other manner in which marriage is currently regulated?

Should each case be determined on its individual merits?

Civil rights are not natural or human rights, In other words they are not rights that you are born with. They are rights bestowed by nations on those within their territorial boundaries which state that people have the right to be treated the same regardless of their race, gender, or religion.

Do civil rights apply to relationships -or insure that not only people but also that all relationships, have a right to be treated the same and viewed as equal under the law?

Your thoughts and opinions appreciated.

[AnnEsthesia]

Sorry, but no rights are natural rights. All rights are bestowed by a society.

[cronic]

Do civil rights apply to relationships -or insure that not only people but also that all relationships, have a right to be treated the same and viewed as equal under the law?

I have trouble answering this.. I have to do it in the form of a question... sorry..

If nothing else.. let me help you Sub in your asking of the questions

Should civil rights apply to relationships? then.. should they apply the same to all.....
( yes.. sounds like the same as what your asking.. but its all I can come up with ) I'll use an example tho

for example: I'm married to a woman.. and I die.. my company pension is cut in half and my surviving spouse receives the half thats left.
vs
Joe and Tom are a couple.. they want to get married.. they want all the same benefits the woman and man get.. should they have those same particular benefits?

Would a company have a right to only allow this benefit for a woman - man marriage. ( which I believe some companies do already.. AKA. General Motors ) - ( maybe most to almost all actually.. or atleast I wouldn't be surprised...)

If one believes yes they should have the same...
do you see a possibility for abuse in this allowance?

Sorry again Sub.. Im not tryin to steal your thread..lol.. I guess I'm just adding my voice as a question..

maybe as the topic moves forward.. I will be able to add more

[Sublimating]

Sorry, but no rights are natural rights. All rights are bestowed by a society.

You can believe that if you want, I have rights that no one has bestowed me. I will take my rights and not wait for a group of people to tell me what they are.

[Elrathin]

I have rights that no one has bestowed me.

What rights are those?

[AnnEsthesia]

If they were natural rights, then no one could take them away. If they can be taken away, then they were given at one point or another. Please tell me what right you have that is a 'natural' right and not one that was bestowed upon you?

[micfranklin]

Society regulating marriage rights really never made since to me...it still doesn't but some individuals just need something to ride everyone about.

[Buck Laser]

Society regulating marriage rights really never made since to me...it still doesn't but some individuals just need something to ride everyone about.
Well, but it has ALWAYS regulated marriage--from the very earliest societies, when they learned that incest brought bad results. And sexual preferences have varied for as long as there have been humans.

[Sublimating]

What rights are those?

The right to be, to work and provide for myself and my family, the right to worship, the right pursue happiness, the right to educate myself, the right to...

My definition of rights are things that I can rightfully claim as due me.
I do not need society to tell me what is rightfully due me..I can figure that out on my own.

Society or a group of people may conspire to take these rights but they can never give them to me. I, not man, give myself these rights.

[Elrathin]

The right to be, to work and provide for myself and my family, the right to worship, the right pursue happiness, the right to educate myself, the right to...

Those are given through our society. In other societies, they may not be given depending on race, color, gender, etc.


My definition of rights are things that I can rightfully claim as due me.
I do not need society to tell me what is rightfully due me..I can figure that out on my own.

Like I said, try living in Iran and say you want to be a Christian when you were born Muslim.


Society or a group of people may conspire to take these rights but they can never give them to me. I, not man, give myself these rights.

Again, those rights can be taken away from you when they kill you.

[Sublimating]

Those are given through our society. In other societies, they may not be given depending on race, color, gender, etc.



Like I said, try living in Iran and say you want to be a Christian when you were born Muslim.



Again, those rights can be taken away from you when they kill you.


Your rights may be given by society, my rights are not. Society cannot take my rights.
You choose to believe that you have no rights until someone tells you that you have them or gives them to you...that's your choice, it's sad IMO but hey, to each his own.

If I am a Christian in Iran I have a right to worship, I can do it openly at the cost of my life or I can worship inwardly. no one can take my right to worship.

I have a right to life. If someone kills me, they take my life, not my right to have life.

If someone takes my freedom they take my freedom but not my right to have freedom.

It is a matter of how you choose to see things.

In the case of religion.
If a man takes my life I would expect a judgment against him if not by man certainly by God. If a man could take my right to life and take my life then I cannot expect a judgment against him by man or God because he has taken something that I had no right to.

[ChingChangChewie]

Gay marriage is unlike heterosexual marriage... many differences against the the legal process... being gay is absolutely not a crime... but you should face some hardnesses when you let men marry each other and live together... but if 'em gays wonna get along, why not let 'em? coz America's a very conservative country... many old people can't stand watching two men kiss... they think it's gross... and I suggest gays originally have rights to do gay stuff... why not let 'em who the **** allow you to ban it? Now is there any difference between USA and Iraq? Not letting gays come out is not unlike not letting women show their faces... America's totally on decline, resembling the downfall of an empire, ridiculous..

[Deadshot]

What's funny is that when you read Sub's initial post there's logic to some of it. Why don't we let a 12 year old get married? Because we, as a society, deem the child not to be mature enough.

Why don't we let brother and sister marry? Well first off, MANY states have let that slide a lot, not so much brother/sister but first cousins are ok and most states don't require a blood test anymore - and that's the key point. You didn't marry close kin because the chance for you having a child with a mental handicap was quite high.

Why don't we let polygamy flourish? Because, as we've seen in the news recently, having more the one spouse can lead to abuse and is not fair to all party's involved.

Now can someone explain to me why we don't let Gays marry? They're mature enough, we don't have to worry about the kid thing, and since it's one on one it's a fair and hopefully non-abusive relationship, so why can't they get married?

We have marriages where one spouse cheats on another and they stay together and that's morally FUBAR. The Clintons for example.

We have marriages where one spouse just ceremoniously dumps the other and marry's someone else - morally FUBAR. Newt Gingrich broke up with his wife in a hospital while she was recovering from cancer, then married another. Rudy Guiliani had his 14 year marriage with his first wife annulled after he was caught cheating!

We have marriages that are "open" and spouses want and have threesomes - which is morally FUBAR. Jeri Ryan (Hollywood actress) divorced her politician husband because he wanted her to participate in a threesome, his argument "My first wife did it!" - morally FUBAR.

We have marriages that are physically and mentally abusive - which is morally FUBAR. I'll hit Hollywood again here, Farah Fawcett and Ryan O'Neal(sp), who are still together, both admit to being abusers in their marriage to each other.

And finally we have people who are in a loveless marriage - again morally FUBAR.

So why not have gay marriage?

Oh, one last little thing, if you are going to use the Bible as your defense be careful what you wish for. If you pick sayings from the Old Testament remember they also have "rules" there that say if one works the Sabbath one should be put to death. If you pick up the New Testament you will see rules there that say a women's place is to be subserviant to her man. My point is, if you're going to begin enforcing the gay rules, we need to enforce ALL Biblical rules, both OT and NT.