Chimp disarms attendant during escape.

[Buck Laser]

There's an animal research center near Austin in the town of Bastrop, where chimpanzees have developed some significant skills in escaping from confinement. In the most recent getaway, the inmate took a tranquilizer dart gun away from the guard who tried to keep him in custody. Police officers finally shot and killed the fugitive chimp.

It's a strange day when the chimps are smarter than the guards and the cops are shooting research center escapees as well as jail escapees. Here's a general link to the paper where this story appeared today. Austin Statesman (http://www.statesman.com/)

[Alonzo]

A chimpanzee that had escaped from a Bastrop research center in March snatched a tranquilizer gun from an animal attendant, leapt from a truck bed and threatened a police officer by flailing its arms before being shot several times, according to documents released Friday.

On March 12, Tony, a 140-pound, 171/2-year-old chimpanzee got out of the play area by jumping more than 15 feet from a jungle gym and grabbing the top of a corral wall. Tranquilizer darts failed to subdue him. A University of Texas police officer eventually shot and killed the animal.

According to a memo from UT police to executives at the University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, which manages the Keeling Center for Comparative Medicine and Research, the officer who shot Tony watched the animal take a tranquilizer gun from an animal attendant who was trying to capture the animal according to university protocol.

The memo was obtained by the American-Statesman through a Freedom of Information Act request.

The police report does not name the officer, who has returned to duty, said Wendy Gottsegen, a spokeswoman for the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center.

"The officer was approximately 100 yards from the area and saw an attendant in one of the truck beds with a dart/tranquilizer gun," the report said. "After what appeared to be unsuccessful attempts to tranquilize the chimpanzee, the animal jumped into the truck bed and lunged at the animal attendant. The chimpanzee took the attendant's dart gun away from him and discarded it."

When the truck sped up, the chimpanzee either fell off the truck or jumped from it, according to the report. The officer, who had been watching Tony from property adjacent to the Keeling Center, said Tony started coming toward him, the report said.

"The chimpanzee started flailing its arms. The officer shouted at least twice that he was going to shoot," the report said. "In fear for his safety, the officer then fired several times, striking the chimpanzee."

The officer slipped and fell backward while firing his gun, but the chimpanzee kept coming toward him, the report said. The officer fired again but he did not count how many times he shot at the animal, the report said. The officer remembers "hearing each shot but not counting them because the threat was still coming at him," it said.

Tony collapsed into nearby brush. Tony's escape was the second of three by chimpanzees at the Keeling Center since November. Jake, a 17-year-old chimp, has escaped from his enclosure twice — once in November with another chimp and again Wednesday — but each time he was quickly recaptured. The center this week vowed to tighten security.

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/04/05/0405chimp.html

I'm not sure if this is a better fate for the chimp than what he otherwise would have faced. Probably was. But I can think of better targets than a scared chimp.

The absurdity of this whole thing is summed up here:

"The chimpanzee started flailing its arms. The officer shouted at least twice that he was going to shoot," the report said. "In fear for his safety, the officer then fired several times, striking the chimpanzee."

Ok, so a chimp flailing his arms is life threatening? And shouting twice is supposed to do what? Shouting, if anything, would scare the chimp even more, and it certainly isn't going to understand "I'm going to shoot".

[David]

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/04/05/0405chimp.html

I'm not sure if this is a better fate for the chimp than what he otherwise would have faced. Probably was. But I can think of better targets than a scared chimp.

The absurdity of this whole thing is summed up here:



Ok, so a chimp flailing his arms is life threatening? And shouting twice is supposed to do what? Shouting, if anything, would scare the chimp even more, and it certainly isn't going to understand "I'm going to shoot".

A 300 pound chimp can snap the spine of a 600 pound man, pick him up and throw him. So... Yes. Chimps on the warpath should be your worst nightmare.

[Elrathin]

A 300 pound chimp can snap the spine of a 600 pound man, pick him up and throw him. So... Yes. Chimps on the warpath should be your worst nightmare.

The part where he shouted at the chimp twice that he was going to shoot (Like the Chimp is going to understand the meaning of that warning) was ridiculous.

[Buck Laser]

The part where he shouted at the chimp twice that he was going to shoot (Like the Chimp is going to understand the meaning of that warning) was ridiculous.
El, I'm a Texan, and more or less proud of it, but you have to understand that we do things a bit differently here. The chimp's ignorance of the language was no excuse.

There's a corollary to this, too. Texans who speak no Spanish believe that if one shouts English loud enough and clear enough to a Mexican who doesn't understand English, he will understand and comply.

It's just something that you have to live here to understand.

[Alonzo]

A 300 pound chimp can snap the spine of a 600 pound man, pick him up and throw him. So... Yes. Chimps on the warpath should be your worst nightmare.

The odds of the chimp doing so were low, if he/she did then it would be the peoples fault. You don't act that way if you're trying to catch a chimp and want it to remain calm.

[Truth_and_Power]

The odds of the chimp doing so were low, if he/she did then it would be the peoples fault. You don't act that way if you're trying to catch a chimp and want it to remain calm.

What would you have done?

[Osborn F. Enready]

Is there some point to this article?

The chimp had a weapon.... they had no choice.

[Alonzo]

Is there some point to this article?

The chimp had a weapon.... they had no choice.

No, the chimp grabbed the weapon and then threw it away.

What would you have done?

First had people not pull out guns, and had people not scream at the chimp. Chimps know guns are threatening and react to loud noises. If they could not calm the chimp down, they should have tried to have people shoot an additional tranquilizer, or given the officer a tranquilizer gun.

That being said, I'm not sure if death isn't a better alternative to being experimented on.

[micfranklin]

Chimpanzees share about 95% of the same genetics with humans. I really don't think anyone should take an animal with that much similarity to people lightly. But then, killing it was just overkill too.

[Buck Laser]

Is there some point to this article?

The chimp had a weapon.... they had no choice.
In the first place, I'm surprised and impressed that the chimp was able to figure out how to disarm the keeper and try to escape. It makes me think twice about the ethics of keeping primates ans the subjects of biological experimentation.

Second, there's an ironic comic aspect to this whole affair--Homo Sapiens, self-appointed ruler of the universe, gets outsmarted.

And finally, the fact that the keeper yelled louder and louder, expecting the chimp to understand just strikes me as utterly hilarious. I'm really sorry you don't appreciate the inherent humor in the situation.

[Alonzo]

Mic, you do realize people capture escaped chimps all the time without killing them, right? Not yelling and not waving guns are something that would have happened at any zoo, as they know that chimps, at least those who have seen them as this one likely had in previous escapes, understand guns are dangerous and yelling will agitate them more. This isn't a zoo, but a chimp facility has no excuse for not being every bit as knowledgeable as a zoo with regards to chimps. It makes no sense why they'd expect to get the chimp to stop by pointing guns and yelling.

Maybe killing him/her was the best thing for the chimp. If it was a zoo or sanctuary this happened at I'd be more aggravated.

[micfranklin]

Yeah but it was a tranquilizer gun, not a Glock.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Buck said:
I'm really sorry you don't appreciate the inherent humor in the situation.

I did Buck, I may have just read too much into it.

It deals with two issues that are peeving me lately:
Firearms
Animal "Rights"

[potter]

In the first place, I'm surprised and impressed that the chimp was able to figure out how to disarm the keeper and try to escape. It makes me think twice about the ethics of keeping primates ans the subjects of biological experimentation.

Second, there's an ironic comic aspect to this whole affair--Homo Sapiens, self-appointed ruler of the universe, gets outsmarted.

And finally, the fact that the keeper yelled louder and louder, expecting the chimp to understand just strikes me as utterly hilarious. I'm really sorry you don't appreciate the inherent humor in the situation.

All good points Buck, and I agree with the last...that was just too funny...."GET DOWN ON THE GROUND...NOW!!!!"

[Alonzo]

I did Buck, I may have just read too much into it.

It deals with two issues that are peeving me lately:
Firearms
Animal "Rights"

Hehe, you must want to kill me! If you don't, I'm sure I could change that. :nana:

[Buck Laser]

I did Buck, I may have just read too much into it.

It deals with two issues that are peeving me lately:
Firearms
Animal "Rights"
Well see, Os, I think animals DO have some rights. We've had laws against animal cruelty for a LONG time now, and it's pretty clear to me that the chimp realized it was essentially enslaved. I'm not one who thinks that pets should be liberated, or that no animal control should exist, but this chimp is a wakeup call to me. Regardless of how it may chafe us philosophically, it's unmistakably clear to me that the chimp had an idea of freedom.

Now this may piss you off royally, but I happen to favor some reasonable firearm restrictions. I don't want some yob who lives next door to me shooting off his pistol every time he feels like, and I don't like the idea of people carrying guns on the expressways. This may offend you to your very core, but dammit, I've been a gun owner since I was 8 years old, and I have a right to have some protection by law. I'm sorry it peeves you, but I have rights, too.

[Go Fish]

Chimpanzee, badger, or the neighbor's dog, if it's attacking me and I can kill it, it's going down-doobie-doo-down-down.

[Buck Laser]

Chimpanzee, badger, or the neighbor's dog, if it's attacking me and I can kill it, it's going down-doobie-doo-down-down.
Wow, you're tough.:drool:

[NDNdancer]

Oh dear, when I first read this I thought it was some funny post about the president escaping his handlers. My bad.

[Buck Laser]

Oh dear, when I first read this I thought it was some funny post about the president escaping his handlers. My bad.
I can see how one might make that mistake...:clapper:

[Osborn F. Enready]

Alonzo said:
Hehe, you must want to kill me! If you don't, I'm sure I could change that.

I don't want to kill anyone.

I will however kill to keep people like you from infringing my rights, or the rights of others should it come to that. It should never come to that, but it often does, since so many think "force" is a valid means of imposing their "morals, beliefs, etc" on others, through GOVERNMENT force.

Buck Laser said:
Well see, Os, I think animals DO have some rights.

They obviously do, by birth, to the extent they can defend, much like humans. All living beings are born with natural rights, its what governs their actions in the physical world.
However, humans, more accurately, the forefathers of the U.S., enumerated natural rights as the center-pin for our culture, society and legal system. Individual rights of born citizens is the basis of our legal system, and society. Animal rights are not "equal" to human rights, nor is any animal on the same level as humans, regarding protection of rights, legal or otherwise.

Buck Laser said:
We've had laws against animal cruelty for a LONG time now, and it's pretty clear to me that the chimp realized it was essentially enslaved.

We are all enslaved to some degree, much like some of us have a better sense of the depth of that enslavement than others.

While the chimp may have "felt" enslaved, which it certainly was factually, it does not have equal rights to that of a human, especially if the human feels threatened. Why? We are a nation of laws, and the nation, society and all laws that govern it are created by people, not chimps.

Under natural law, the chimps rights may be equal to humans, to the point of force, but reasonable humans have justified that the use of force except in cases of self-defense is unjustified, pertaining to humans vs humans. In the case of a human feeling threatened by an animal, the animal has littly if any rights, and certainly none under law.

Buck Laser said:
I'm not one who thinks that pets should be liberated, or that no animal control should exist, but this chimp is a wakeup call to me.

How so?

Buck Laser said:
Regardless of how it may chafe us philosophically, it's unmistakably clear to me that the chimp had an idea of freedom.

It certainly does, but its "perception" of freedom and a humans "perception" of freedom are far and away different. A chimps "perception" of freedom entails killing equals(other chimps), lesser than equals(smaller animals), greater than equals(larger more ferocious animals), whatever is dictated for survival. A humans "perception" of freedom, at least in "most" societies, is tempered by the fine line of NOT using force against equals.(other humans)

Animals cannot be, never will be, equals to humans.

Buck Laser said:
Now this may piss you off royally, but I happen to favor some reasonable firearm restrictions.

It doesn't piss me off, it simply shows you "trust" government more than any of our forefathers, or myself. You have the right to "think" whatever you want. I have the right to defend my rights, up to and including the use of lethal force. In the end, my side will win. ;)

Buck Laser said:
I don't want some yob who lives next door to me shooting off his pistol every time he feels like, and I don't like the idea of people carrying guns on the expressways.

Point?

Buck Laser said:
This may offend you to your very core, but dammit, I've been a gun owner since I was 8 years old, and I have a right to have some protection by law. I'm sorry it peeves you, but I have rights, too.

You have the right to defense, you don't have the right to remove the rights of others because it "makes you feel better".

[brien]

The 2nd Amendment is what it is, and now we will welcome its reinterpretation by the SC of the US due in June. Once and for all, we may get a ruling that puts it into focus for all to understand that the individual's right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed and protected by the 2nd Amendment.