Russian Army - Living Danger.........

[December]

So is Russian army really a living danger or are they just a bunch of drunk idiots?.....
What would Political Analysis people say?

I've found a pretty cool video. It's called "Russian Army - Living Danger".

Check it out -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAdORW_1Ync

http://posvete.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/topol-m.jpg

[Go Fish]

Funny. There's no footage of Admiral Kuznetsov broken down in the Mediterranean Sea on her maiden cruise. "Living Danger" is correct. If you are in the Russian military, and you are alive, you are in danger.

[December]

Funny. There's no footage of Admiral Kuznetsov broken down in the Mediterranean Sea on her maiden cruise.

OK... Post the footage than.

[Go Fish]

I don't need footage, I saw the POS first hand. Have you ever been aboard a Russian naval vessel?

[December]

I don't need footage, I saw the POS first hand.

OK. I believe you. So what was the problem with "Admiral Kuznetsov" and when did it happen?


Have you ever been aboard a Russian naval vessel?


No. Have you?

[December]

Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jHSccMZqRkw

Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Kuznetsov (Russian: Адмирал флота Советского Союза Кузнецов, originally named Tbilisi and then Leonid Brezhnev[1]) is an aircraft carrier (heavy aircraft carrying cruiser (TAVKR) in Russian classification) serving as the flagship of the Russian Navy. She was originally commissioned in the Soviet Navy, and was intended to be the lead ship of her class, but the only other ship of her class, Varyag, has never been commissioned and was sold to the People's Republic of China by Ukraine under the condition she would never be refitted for combat. Kuznetsov was named after the Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Nikolai Gerasimovich Kuznetsov.

Admiral Flota Sovetskovo Soyuza Kuznetsov, constructed at Nikolayev South Shipyard in Nikolayev, was launched in 1985, and became fully operational in 1995. An official ceremony marking the start of construction took place on September 1, 1982; in fact she was laid down in 1983.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_aircraft_carrier_Admiral_Kuznetsov

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/flankers_pages/su-27k_files/su-27k_07.jpg

Su-33 ‘All-folded’ on Admiral Kuznetsov.

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/flankers_pages/su-27k.htm

[Go Fish]

6 jets and 7 factory pilots. That was the "might" of her when she broke down. The Navy pilots on board were not permitted to fly, which, they quietly assured us, pissed them off. The test pilots, of course, were detested.
All that money and such a feeble end-product. Yes, I was aboard 2 Russian ships in the summer of 1989. The crew were as unprepared for combat as the ships were. I sincerely felt sorry for them for about 8 minutes.

[December]

So, Go Fish, what was the problem with "Admiral Kuznetsov" and when did it happen?

[Go Fish]

Research it yourself, December. When you find something specifically contradicting what I wrote, I'll send you a check for $100.00 US.

[Go Fish]

Here's an update on that floating death-trap. http://www.aresblog.net/blog/An+Awakening+Bear%3F.html#comments
What's that? 18 tactical aircraft? It is to laugh.

Or it would be, if the average Russian didn't have a lower standard of living than the average homeless American.

[December]

Research it yourself, December. When you find something specifically contradicting what I wrote, I'll send you a check for $100.00 US.

This is not how it works, Go Fish. I am not going to prove what you say. You make a claim - you prove it.
Even the high school students know it.

[Pookie]

That's the crappiest-looking aircraft carrier I've ever seen. Geez, the Intrepid could whip that puppy in a hearbeat.
Interesting article.
Purrs,
Pookie

[Pookie]

Found a couple of YouTube videos, too. What a piece of crap! Those pilots are lousy, too. Ooooo, I'm so scared.
And they're too cheap to put in catapults. I was impressed by the blast deflector, though, wow, they went all out on that part...NOT!
Most of Russia's Navy is sagging rustbuckets. My XO and I were invited aboard one of our destroyers in the Enterprise battle group a long time ago (God, that carrier is WILD!!) and we saw a ship off in the distance. I said, "WTF is that?" and the petty officer/tour guide looked and said, "Oh, that's another stray Russian cruiser." I snatched the binocs and looked closer, and said, "Holy crap! That thing looks like a frikkin barge!"
He said, "Yep. That's Russian technology for you."
Gaaahh!
And we were afraid of them during the Cold War? What was wrong with us?!
Must've been the nukes, I guess, but geez!
Purrs,
Pookie

[Easy90]

The Russians acquired a goodly number of German rocket scientists after the war, as did the US... They stole our nuclear technology...(yes, McCarthy was absolutely right)...and they had the means to deliver nukes on American soil...They were a real threat from about 1958 until 1990 After Ronald Reagan defeated the Soviets and bankrupted them as they tried to keep up...they lost their empire and their military has fallen into decrepit conditions... During WW-II...a Russian "engineer" literally didn't have the technical expertise to fix a Jeep. Stalin reverse engineered his military after the war, with the exception of rockets and some aviation...most of which technology he got from the Germans, after Truman allowed him to walk through Eastern Europe when the Nazi's had essentially been defeated by England and America. Thanks Harry!

[Pookie]

Their Navy was decrepit long before 1990, but you're right, they really went bellyup after 1990. I've seen some of their stuff, and I tell you, I'd feel safer on the Kon-Tiki.
Have you seen the mockups of the new British Queen Elizabeth-class carriers? They have a ramped bow too, but the design is a heck of a lot better. Let me go scratch up a pic for you. These look interesting.
Purrs,
Pookie

Edit: Here ya go. It's an artist drawing, but you get the idea. Poor Ark Royal!

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/international-politics/63715-imposing-aircraft-carrier-hms-ark.html

[bishop]

russia's army is an army of slaves.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0130/p09s02-coop.html

they've been intensely focused on the war against terrorists and civilians in chechnya and haven't done a very good or efficient job.

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/terrorism.php?id=1387175

On paper, Russian threw massive amounts of force into the operation. In reality, most units had only 30-50% of their proper manpower; in turn, most of these were conscripts with less than one year of military service. They were also unfamiliar with the territory and Grozny itself. Many Chechens, however, were veterans of compulsory Russian military service. They knew Russian military doctrine, they were familiar with Russian equipment, and they knew their own geography well.

<snip>

Even the Russian aerial strategy was flawed. Attack helicopters were employed only during the initial phase of the assault; once Russian troops had reached Grozny, they were supported only by fixed-wing aircraft. Although the Russians destroyed Chechen airports and aircraft, most of these were training aircraft, and this focus had little bearing on the rest of the conflict. The Russian battle plan called for the elite special forces units, or Spetsnaz, to be deployed by helicopter in the mountains surrounding Grozny in order to disrupt Chechen operations there. Instead, most of the Spetsnaz troops surrendered to the Chechens after wandering for days without food or any tangible instructions.

[Pookie]

Yeah, I had heard something like that, Bishop. Also, wasn't a large portion of their equipment defective, rendering it useless? Or was that a rumor?
Purrs,
Pookie

[bishop]

russia is a country that can't even provide heat and running water to all of its citizenry.. not sure if the equipment their soldiers received was defective, but it wouldn't be surprising.. plus, all the equipment in the world doesn't matter if the military leadership is incompetent, which chechnya showed to be the case. (i'm also not sure how eager slave conscripts would be to fight for their soviet masters anyway.)

most of the advanced weapons russia makes is exported, rather than kept for its army. aside from oil, russia's primary source of income is selling weapons.

[Go Fish]

What impressed me the most about "touring" the two ships I was on was the fact that the main deck actually buckled when you walked on it. Where we would have 4" of armor plate, the Russkis had Buick trunk lids. Collapsible fire hoses like you used to be able to buy on QVC, brass instruction plates that had only recently been chipped out from under a dozen coats of paint, and thing a crew that just reeked.
The things that I wasn't supposed to look at by direction of my department head made me feel confident that Russia never was, and will never be a military superpower. America alone owns that title.

[Pookie]

What impressed me the most about "touring" the two ships I was on was the fact that the main deck actually buckled when you walked on it. Where we would have 4" of armor plate, the Russkis had Buick trunk lids. Collapsible fire hoses like you used to be able to buy on QVC, brass instruction plates that had only recently been chipped out from under a dozen coats of paint, and thing a crew that just reeked.
The things that I wasn't supposed to look at by direction of my department head made me feel confident that Russia never was, and will never be a military superpower. America alone owns that title.

Holy craaaaaaaaappppp! Geez! So I wasn't too far off-point by saying I'd feel safer on the Kon-Tiki.
Buick trunk lids?The damn main deck buckled?
Oh, my God. How long were you aboard? If it was more than half an hour, I'd say you're lucky to be here.
That is scary!
Purrs,
Pookie

[Go Fish]

They brought 2 ships into Norfolk in 1989. Being a weapons guy and an inveterate rebel, I did exactly what I was told not to do and inspected everything that I had access to WRT their weapons systems (Where's the "Wink" emoticon?)
The biggie was their anti-aircraft carrier missiles, which are ponderously huge and represented these vessels' main threat to us. There was absolutely no indication of any physical access to the missiles (If the launchers were actually loaded) being made in years. No electrical connectors had been opened, and the very end caps (Held tight by wing nuts on both ends) were painted flush with the bodies of the launchers.
Having a couple of days worth of experience with really good missiles, I reported that everything which I studiously did not look at was either fake or garbage.
Not only did the main deck buckle between the beams, but it was coated with tar. Not non-skid, but roofing tar. I came off them with the impression that they were blowing smoke up our asses, but these really were their showboats.
As for Russia's carrier, it's a joke. As is everything about Russia. Just a really large backward-ass hellhole.

[Pookie]

Rats! I was in Texas in 1989, so I missed it. Geez. That is really pathetic. Roofing tar --!!
I had always been told, and later, did find out, that the Russians had really shoddy crap. But I did hear their subs are pretty cool. Like, both of them. I've been trying to find a pic of that cruiser that looked like a barge, but I don't know the name of it. I swear it looked like a barge!
I love our Navy's toys. What I got to see of them, wow! And the Enterprise our destroyer-escort was next to was sooooooooo massive! The carrier simply reeked of sheer POWER. The jets coming off and on that thing thundered to where it would literally reverberate within your own body and my God, you could hear the stuff over the PA clearly. I was totally awestruck. I know my guides thought I was a real frikken moron because I would just stand on the deck and watch the Enterprise and be moved near tears. It is really hard to describe. Our battle group was so impressive! Even the smaller ships looked like you would not want to mess with even one of them.
And at night, the carrier looked like a floating city. The night maneuvers were absolutely breathtaking. I've been proud of our military all my life, but seeing that was simply incredible. I've never been so impressed in my life except once -- when my daughter was born.
THAT is how good our military is. Oh, I wish I could see the Enterprise just one more time, or maybe one of our newer carriers.
Sigh.
Oh, dear, I'm gushing.
Back to the topic, though, that is unbelievable (but SO believable) about the Russian ships. I bet it was impossible not to look at stuff you weren't supposed to, LOL!!
Purrs,
Pookie

[Go Fish]

Not being that far removed from the working end of diplomacy, (Retired 8 years ago) there's already a tendency to idealize the days and nights spent on the flight deck. In reality, the good days were a bitch, and it went downhill from there. The people, on the other hand, were inversely responsive to the degree of situational suckification. When things were at their worst, the people were (And I'm sure, still are) at their best.
After 20 years of being around carrier aviation, the amazement never wore off. I loved it when I started, and I loved it when I left.

[Easy90]

I seldom admit things like this, but I know you're absolutely right about flight operations at sea. You guys did/do amazing stuff on those stupid boats. Between carriers and subs, (I don't know which duty would suck the worst....yet take such dedication to do)...I have the greatest respect for sailors who are out there doin it! Those things are class A targets...and yet they get the missions done! Can't express any higher admiration/respect than for our great folks out at sea doing service in combat conditions!

[Go Fish]

Why the Hell not? All I ever had to worry about was somebody (Including myself) screwing up and getting me killed. Weather notwithstanding. My admiration has alway been for the guys carrying half of their body weight or more on their backs through the woods and across the creeks and up the hills with the assurance that they would not get to spend whatever down time they could grab in a warm/cool spot with a mattress under them. Rolling out of a grave every few hours to be shot at, or lying in their own waste for 72 hours waiting to unleash one shot at some jihadist scumbag. The Marines, the Army, and any SPECWAR bubbas from any branch get my nod. They know what shitty conditions are all about, and they re-enlist for it! Of course, not ALL Marines and Soldiers.

[Pookie]

Holy crap, you two!
Bless you! My Gods, I was in the Army and just a guest aboard the destroyer, but we were next to the Enterprise. Our Navy is incredible. So are the AirForce, Marines, and Coast Guard. Just amazing.
I was a groundpounder but I can tell you my insides blow up with admiration for our entire military. I swear to God, we are the BEST on this planet. I'm out now, after 22 years, but the guys and gals carrying on are the BEST.
Shitty conditions are just part of life, you know. Many times I was scared shitless, but the training pulls you through, know what I mean?
But by God, our brave folks really, really, are the best. I was a commander. It was such an honor to be with such incredible, smart, resourceful, tough people.
God bless em all!
Purrs,
Pookie

[Easy90]

I always considered myself lucky that I fell into an Air Force flying job. I'd never been on an airplane until I flew on a commercial airliner (Braniff) from St. Louis to San Antonio for OTS... Within six months, I was soloing in jets as a pilot trainee.

My hat's off to the other branches, because though I saw "combat" in the "Air Force"....I never had to worry about drowning if what I was on/in took a hit, like the swabbies on one of those floating pieces of iron...or sitting in a mud hole waiting for a bullet to find me while I tried to sleep after being shot at for three days straight. Got shot at a few times, but the closest any bastard came to actually hitting me with ground fire came while flying into Carswell AFB at night....in Ft. Worth, Texas. Those Texans get kinda pissed off when you keep them awake in the wee hours of the morning with jet noise I guess.

[Go Fish]

"Those Texans get kinda pissed off when you keep them awake in the wee hours of the morning with jet noise I guess."

You sound pretty confident that it wasn't you CO shooting at you!

[Pookie]

Might have been the CO's spouse. Weirder things have happened, LOL!
Purrs,
Pookie

[Go Fish]

December, Admiral Khusnetsov lost both boilers after struggling all the way to the Med. My Navy actually tied up alongside and sold your navy fresh water.

[vladward8]

You do realize that big surface vessels are toast in an era of ultrmaneuverable smart superfast missiles. The day comes when the aircraft carrier goes the way of the battleship. The there's the approaching rail gun coil gun day.....

[December]

You do realize that big surface vessels are toast in an era of ultrmaneuverable smart superfast missiles. The day comes when the aircraft carrier goes the way of the battleship. The there's the approaching rail gun coil gun day.....

I agree with you, vladward8.

The aircraft carriers, which America keeps building, are just expensive toys, but they are useless in real war. They are nothing but the sitting ducks which can be sunk in a matter of minutes by the Russia's Sunburn missiles:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Moskit_missile.jpg/250px-Moskit_missile.jpg

The Sunburn Missile

I was shocked when I learned the facts about these Russian-made cruise missiles. The problem is that so many of us suffer from two common misperceptions. The first follows from our assumption that Russia is militarily weak, as a result of the breakup of the old Soviet system. Actually, this is accurate, but it does not reflect the complexities. Although the Russian navy continues to rust in port, and the Russian army is in disarray, in certain key areas Russian technology is actually superior to our own. And nowhere is this truer than in the vital area of anti-ship cruise missile technology, where the Russians hold at least a ten-year lead over the US. The second misperception has to do with our complacency in general about missiles-as-weapons probably attributable to the pathetic performance of Saddam Hussein's Scuds during the first Gulf war: a dangerous illusion that I will now attempt to rectify.

Many years ago, Soviet planners gave up trying to match the US Navy ship for ship, gun for gun, and dollar for dollar. The Soviets simply could not compete with the high levels of US spending required to build up and maintain a huge naval armada. They shrewdly adopted an alternative approach based on strategic defense. They searched for weaknesses, and sought relatively inexpensive ways to exploit those weaknesses. The Soviets succeeded: by developing several supersonic anti-ship missiles, one of which, the SS-N-22 Sunburn, has been called "the most lethal missile in the world today."

The Sunburn can deliver a 200-kiloton nuclear payload, or: a 750-pound conventional warhead, within a range of 100 miles, more than twice the range of the Exocet. The Sunburn combines a Mach 2.1 speed (two times the speed of sound) with a flight pattern that hugs the deck and includes "violent end maneuvers" to elude enemy defenses. The missile was specifically designed to defeat the US Aegis radar defense system. Should a US Navy Phalanx point defense somehow manage to detect an incoming Sunburn missile, the system has only seconds to calculate a fire solution not enough time to take out the intruding missile. The US Phalanx defense employs a six-barreled gun that fires 3,000 depleted-uranium rounds a minute, but the gun must have precise coordinates to destroy an intruder "just in time."

READ MORE - http://www.rense.com/general59/theSunburniransawesome.htm

http://www.currentissues.tv/Sunburn_Country.jpg

[December]

Go Fish, do you agree with me on aircraft carriers?

[Pookie]

I don't, December. Sunburn missiles are one thing, but when you think of how inferior the Russian Navy is compared to the US Navy, the Russians might think twice before trying that.
And the Russians are always parading their weapons around so much it's a joke here. We kind of just go, "Oooh, look, more saber-rattling. Let us know when to be scared."
Sorry, December. We don't parade our weapons around, and also, the Russians and most of the world really don't know what we have.
So, we just kind of let the saber-rattling go.
Purrs,
Pookie

[vladward8]

Personally I think it would be pretty stupid to assume that Russia is showing her best weapons for all the world to see. I think it would be even more stupid to risk the end of civilization to find out.:rolleyes: