Corporal punishment in schools?

[davo]

Should schools be allowed to administer physical punishment (such as the cane) to badly behaved students? Why/Why not?

[Osborn F. Enready]

I think private schools should be able to have a policy of physical punishment. Parents have the choice to pay for tuition there, or not, and go somewhere more suitable to their desires from a school.

Public Schools, which I dispute the value of entirely, should not, and I would argue CAN NOT have physical punishment, due to dispute over how this affects the physical and mental health of children, and different views on punishing children.

[Drocket]

Caning is, I think, grotesque overkill, one that should be outlawed, period (assuming you're talking about the sort of caning I'm thinking you are.) A thwap to the ass with a paddle, though, never killed anyone.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Thanks for pointing that out about the cane drocket, I meant to mention that myself.

[Trish]

I didn't vote because you didn't have my choice in the poll - it depends. I never gave anyone carte blanche to physically discipline my children, and I never will whether it is in a public or private school setting. I am not against corporal punishment altogether, but I don't believe it should be used indiscriminately. I always mandated that if the school wanted to punish my child that I be notified BEFORE any punishment was administered. If I agreed with the reasons for the punishment and the extent of punishment I would stay on the line while the punishment was administered. If not, the school and I would come to agreement on alternate punishment. I would never agree to any school, or anyone else using a cane though. A paddle with a maximum of 2 smacks is sufficient for any corporal punishment a school should be able to administer.

[apdst]

I see the difference in schools now and schools when I was a kid. When I was in grade school, hell even high school, none of us would have ever thought about pulling the shit that kids pull today. Why? Because--in my case at least--I would have gotten my ass whipped at school, then gotten my ass whipped when I got home.

So, yes, public should impliment a corporal punishment program. In fact, I believe that it should be mandatory. Since corporal punishment has gone missing from the school system, the school system has gone completely to shit.

[Trish]

No kidding! There were lots of things I could have gotten into as a kid, things that other kids did, that I KNEW better than to mess with. I KNEW that my mother would beat my butt if I got messed up in some things my friends were doing. When I was in school there was no such thing as "taking my side" in any issue. The school was right - if they said I did something wrong, I had done something wrong and that's where it would end - the school right and me with a sore backside! I rarely got into ANY trouble in school.

[Osborn F. Enready]

APDST said:
I see the difference in schools now and schools when I was a kid. When I was in grade school, hell even high school, none of us would have ever thought about pulling the sh1t that kids pull today. Why? Because--in my case at least--I would have gotten my ass whipped at school, then gotten my ass whipped when I got home.

So since it worked for you, it obviously must work for everyone? :unreal:

What about those who aren't scared of the whipping?
What about those who enjoy the whipping because its the ONLY attention they get?

:ponder:

APDST said:
So, yes, public should impliment a corporal punishment program. In fact, I believe that it should be mandatory.

Why is this no surpise to me? Let me guess, they should lose a hand for theft, and an eye for cheating from someone elses paper? :shame:

APDST said:
Since corporal punishment has gone missing from the school system, the school system has gone completely to sh1t.

Yes, that must be it. There can't be any other factors.... it must be the lack of good whuppins'....... :dizzy:

[lily]

I see the difference in schools now and schools when I was a kid. When I was in grade school, hell even high school, none of us would have ever thought about pulling the sh1t that kids pull today. Why? Because--in my case at least--I would have gotten my ass whipped at school, then gotten my ass whipped when I got home.

Ain't that the truth!!

davo wrote:
Should schools be allowed to administer physical punishment (such as the cane) to badly behaved students? Why/Why not?

What is physical punnishment going to do that the other methods of discipline
isn't going to accomplish? So you hit a kid with a paddle in front of the class, I don't see the value in that. I also can see the lawsuites flying the first time a teacher leaves welts or a female student complains that a male teacher paddled her.

It's also going to be interesting to see who thinks physical discipline
is good for the schools to be doing and sex education isn't.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Me entire argument rests on the fact that parents have THE MOST say in what their children can take in, in the form of education.

The public system has usurped this power, and that is the PROBLEM with the public system.

[Troubadour]

I've got a better idea: Instead of corporal punishment on helpless children, how about we institute it for white-collar criminals? We'll see how warm and fuzzy the right feels about it then.

[Osborn F. Enready]

I have no compunction at all about making white collar and blue collar criminals equal in punishment.

Try me! (were you referring to the "economic right"?)

[apdst]

So since it worked for you, it obviously must work for everyone?

Well, the current system doesn't work worth a shit.

[Troubadour]

Well, the current system doesn't work worth a sh1t.


It works just fine. Schools are generally safe, orderly places.

[apdst]

It works just fine. Schools are generally safe, orderly places.

Uh, yeah.

[3.14]

Should schools be allowed to administer physical punishment (such as the cane) to badly behaved students? Why/Why not?


No. There are other ways of getting a point across, and physical punishment (IMO, at least) is a throw back to more uncivilized days, where brute force was the only way to get one's point across. There are other ways to "punish" children - suspend some priveleges, be stern with them; but I'm yet to see a single case where physical punishment is really essential. . .


I see the difference in schools now and schools when I was a kid. When I was in grade school, hell even high school, none of us would have ever thought about pulling the sh1t that kids pull today. Why? Because--in my case at least--I would have gotten my ass whipped at school, then gotten my ass whipped when I got home.

So, yes, public should impliment a corporal punishment program. In fact, I believe that it should be mandatory. Since corporal punishment has gone missing from the school system, the school system has gone completely to sh1t.


Thanks for your feedback on this, and for providing your own example. However, this might not (as others have pointed out) be the case for everyone. I know that I was one of the rowdiest and naughtiest kids in school back in the day. My parents tried everything from screaming and shouting, to spanking in order to resolve the situation, but it did not help one bit - I still got into trouble regularly. Sure, I was good for a week after the spanking, but it was the same old thing after that. '

Our school also allowed teachers (when I was growing up, at least) to adminster various forms of inventive punishments. For instance, there was one punishment where (and this was for the corporal sin of not turning in homework on time) male students were expected to "crouch" in a position with their knees slightly bent, back straight, and arms extended straight above their heads; sometimes for a duration of 30 minutes straight. Slapping was routine, as were smacks to the head etc. Yet, none of this really stopped those who wanted to play truant, or not turn in HW from doing so. When we got too big for physical punishment, then they tried other ways of doing things, such as pressuring the parents etc - but the bottom line was that physical punishment did not work.

One has to address the root of the problem, not simply search for a short term solution (which is what I believe physical punishment is). Why does a child misbehave in school? Could there be any reasons behind it that might need more attention from an adult than a spanking would demand? There are kids with ADHD in schools that get a bad rap (for not paying attention, etc) - but would't the situation be better resolved by actually paying attention to the child's needs, instead of simply going for the brute force solution?

Just another perspective. . .

[3.14]

Well, the current system doesn't work worth a sh1t.


It works just fine. Schools are generally safe, orderly places.


Ah, I wouldn't say that - both schools and colleges have been struck by a spate of violence recently (in the US, at least). Of course, I don't believe for a minute that allowing/disallowing corporal punishment would change that particular situation to any great extent. . .

For instance, I highly doubt the kid who takes a gun to high school is worried about whether or not he/she would be spanked for it later.

3.14

[apdst]

3.14,

I agree that different tactics work on different kids. However, taking corporal punishment out of the equation encourages the worst kids to misbehave.

If taking away privledges doesn't work, what's left? Nothing?

[3.14]

3.14,

I agree that different tactics work on different kids. However, taking corporal punishment out of the equation encourages the worst kids to misbehave.

If taking away privledges doesn't work, what's left? Nothing?


I am not sure if taking corporal punishment out of the equation "encourages" the worst kids to misbehave. To me (and as I pointed out from my own experience), the worst kids, or, in other words, those who wish to misbehave will do so anyway, regardless of the threat of corporal punishment. And at what age does one draw the line anyway - it's simply not possible to bend a 17 year old over on your knee, for instance. :)

If taking away priveleges don't work, there is always the alternative of suspending the kid temporarily. . . I suspect those kids who really want to do something with their lives would stop after that. Those that don't, well, no amount of corporal punishment will really help. . .

[GHJ]

I see the difference in schools now and schools when I was a kid. When I was in grade school, hell even high school, none of us would have ever thought about pulling the sh1t that kids pull today. Why? Because--in my case at least--I would have gotten my ass whipped at school, then gotten my ass whipped when I got home.

So, yes, public should impliment a corporal punishment program. In fact, I believe that it should be mandatory. Since corporal punishment has gone missing from the school system, the school system has gone completely to sh1t.

Same here. I knew better than to misbehave either place.

Big difference from now and when I was in HS is that they now have police officers monitoring the school and all they had when I was in school were student hall monitors. Can you imagine what would happen today if a hall monitor stopped someone and asked to see their pass to be in the halls while classes were in session? They'd probably have their throats slit or be beaten to death on the spot.

Accountability for one's actions is not taught at home or at school. Dicipline is not enforced at home so you can't expect it at school. Respect for their elders is no longer taught at home. Manners and displaying courtesy to other people are unknown. Selfishness is no longer stamped out in children. They're products of "me first" parents so you can't expect anything but that from the kids. There's more going on now than just having had the corporal punishment removed from schools.

[AnnEsthesia]

Nope, schools should not beat on kids. It is not their place to do so. Despite what many on this forum seem to think, physical violence is not the solution. Do you honestly think that an incorrigible kid who hates school and acts up will somehow love school suddenly if the teachers and principal is now beating his ass? Somehow, I doubt it. All it will do is further drive off the kids that probably MOST need the safe haven of school, since many of the worst case kids are coming from a horrendous home environment where, ironically, they probably ARE being beaten or at least in some way abused.

[preservanation]

The educators have no tools to deal with unruly students.
The inmates are running the asylum.
I say there has to be punishment, but sending them home to a parent who'll side with their ill behaved kid against the school anyway is silly.
I say beat the little f55kers!

[AnnEsthesia]

The educators have no tools to deal with unruly students.
The inmates are running the asylum.
I say there has to be punishment, but sending them home to a parent who'll side with their ill behaved kid against the school anyway is silly.
I say beat the little f55kers!


Figures you would. Truly contemptible.

[Osborn F. Enready]

And once again, the replies in this debate SHOWS CLEARLY why the public school system CANNOT MEET all peoples needs, or REASONABLE desires.

Parents have a right to say how their child is educated, AND punished when misbehaving. PARENTS deserve the choice, are ENTITLED to the choice, and the damn governments of the world need to respect that or suffer the consequences.

[Elrathin]

Parents have a right to say how their child is educated, AND punished when misbehaving. PARENTS deserve the choice, are ENTITLED to the choice, and the damn governments of the world need to respect that or suffer the consequences.


Alright then, what should be done when a child won't listen and mdisrupts the other class? You think the school system shouldn't do anything and if the parents won't then who?

I don't agree with teachers beating the kids or anything like that, but when the child is disruptive and the parents won't do anything about it, what is the school system supposed to do?

[apdst]

I am not sure if taking corporal punishment out of the equation "encourages" the worst kids to misbehave.

It's what's going in the classroom. It's obvious, everyday, the negative effect the lack of physical discipline is having on the school system.

Nope, schools should not beat on kids.

No one is talking about beating a kid. But, a good paddling ain't never hurt nobody.

[AnnEsthesia]

No one is talking about beating a kid. But, a good paddling ain't never hurt nobody.


Um.. yea it will if the child is already being beaten at home. Physical violence is NOT the answer and won't exactly gain a child's trust.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Elrathin said:
Alright then, what should be done when a child won't listen and mdisrupts the other class?

A parent could tell you that, about THEIR OWN CHILD, but I can't give ANY answer that would please everyone, nor SUIT EVERYONE REGARDING THEIR OWN CHILD.

Private schools allow parents to find schools that suit THEIR CHILDRENS NEEDS, which are unique. Public schools force kids into a jello mold, and expect it to work for everyone dumped there. It doesn't and it never has.

Elrathin said:
You think the school system shouldn't do anything and if the parents won't then who?

The school system doesn't have the RIGHT to do anything without the EXPRESS PERMISSION of the parents. There have always been, and most likely will always be parents who are both responsible, and irresponsible.... its not a perfect world, and no amount of GOVERNMENT FORCE will make it so.

Elrathin said:
I don't agree with teachers beating the kids or anything like that, but when the child is disruptive and the parents won't do anything about it, what is the school system supposed to do?

Expel the child so others can learn, putting the problem right where it belongs.... the lap of the parents.

[apdst]

Um.. yea it will if the child is already being beaten at home. Physical violence is NOT the answer and won't exactly gain a child's trust.

As I said before, different kids need different treatment. However, complete erasure of corporal punishment has obviously had the wrong effect in the classroom.

[AnnEsthesia]

Um.. yea it will if the child is already being beaten at home. Physical violence is NOT the answer and won't exactly gain a child's trust.

As I said before, different kids need different treatment. However, complete erasure of corporal punishment has obviously had the wrong effect in the classroom.


Sorry, no. Do you honestly think that the school knows what the child needs or what will be effective? Do you really think a child that is a behavior problem will be positively effected by being hit? Give me a break. We are not talking about good students who act up. We are talking about true problem students. I was a very good student in school and I can tell you that if someone there had hit me, I would have hated them, hated the school and not been really interested in ever going back.

But sure, let's continue the cycle of violence. Hell, let's make it official policy that you get a beating every time you do something wrong. A paddling for speeding, a caning for running a red light and if you cheat on your spouse, you get strung up by your balls.

[preservanation]

Can everyone agree that what is going on is not working?
Or are some happy with our status quo in our Gov run schools?
I know that some believe that one more major tax hike on the rich will solve all the problems, but I maintain it is systemic and pouring more money into the black maw of bureaucracy of the NEA and teachers unions will not solve anything. The last thing they are conserned about are our children
An attitude overhaul is what is needed.

[Elrathin]

Can everyone agree that what is going on is not working?
Or are some happy with our status quo in our Gov run schools?


The problem isn't entirely with public schools thought either. A lot has to do with the involvement of parents with their kids. Are there some problems with public schools? Yes, does the whole thing need to be scrapped? No.

[namguy]

I think private schools should be able to have a policy of physical punishment. Parents have the choice to pay for tuition there, or not, and go somewhere more suitable to their desires from a school.

Public Schools, which I dispute the value of entirely, should not, and I would argue CAN NOT have physical punishment, due to dispute over how this affects the physical and mental health of children, and different views on punishing children.


My exact thoughts:thumbsup:

[Osborn F. Enready]

Spanking, or "forceful correction" works on some kids, not on others.
"Positive reinforcement" and "rewards" work for some kids, not for others.

All kids are individuals, and need individual attention to what causes them to misbehave, and correcting it, if its "abnormal".

Public schools entirely lack a method of parents to address the needs of THEIR INDIVDUAL CHILDREN.

[Elrathin]

All kids are individuals, and need individual attention to what causes them to misbehave, and correcting it, if its "abnormal".

So you're wanting licenses psychologists to be teachers now? Exactly how is the state supposed to pay for that one?

[AnnEsthesia]

Sorry, no. How about instead of forcing the schools to abuse the children, the PARENTS take responsibility for it. If the parents want their children hit for talking in class, then that parent can do down and whoop their child. No teacher in their right mind would ever lay a hand on a student. The teacher and school staff are there to support and nurture the child, not hit them.

[preservanation]

All kids are individuals, and need individual attention to what causes them to misbehave, and correcting it, if its "abnormal".

So you're wanting licenses psychologists to be teachers now? Exactly how is the state supposed to pay for that one?
Good point, El.
It used to be that a prescription for Ridlen or Prozac could be issued on the recommendation of a teacher (with no medical training or knowledge) alone.
I don't know if this is still going on...but Jeeze.

I'm curious what the teachers would say if asked.
Probably higher pay :rolleyes: but I'm not sure.
They seem to only speak through the union.
I never hear a current teacher being interviewed about any of this.
All I ever hear is more and more tax money.
If $$ was it, we would have solved the problem billions of dollars ago.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Elrathin said:
So you're wanting licenses psychologists to be teachers now? Exactly how is the state supposed to pay for that one?

I don't think they should be paying for SCHOOLING THROUGH TAXES, so I surely wouldn't support MORE thievery for schooling. NO, I don't support that.

I said, parents know what works with their children, and they have the RIGHT to select a school that will meet their childs needs, both in education AND correction methods.

AnnEsthesia said:
Sorry, no. How about instead of forcing the schools to abuse the children, the PARENTS take responsibility for it. If the parents want their children hit for talking in class, then that parent can do down and whoop their child. No teacher in their right mind would ever lay a hand on a student. The teacher and school staff are there to support and nurture the child, not hit them.

AnnEsthesia, if this is the case, why not have parents home school.... since they will be going to school constantly to discipline their child?!? What would be the BENEFIT of public schooling THEN, as if there IS ONE NOW?

I as a parent have the right to prescribe allowable forms of punishment for my child, when in the care of others. If schools and teachers refuse to do this, they would fail without state aid. (they should fail anyway.....)

[AnnEsthesia]

Elrathin said:
So you're wanting licenses psychologists to be teachers now? Exactly how is the state supposed to pay for that one?

I don't think they should be paying for SCHOOLING THROUGH TAXES, so I surely wouldn't support MORE thievery for schooling. NO, I don't support that.

I said, parents know what works with their children, and they have the RIGHT to select a school that will meet their childs needs, both in education AND correction methods.

AnnEsthesia said:
Sorry, no. How about instead of forcing the schools to abuse the children, the PARENTS take responsibility for it. If the parents want their children hit for talking in class, then that parent can do down and whoop their child. No teacher in their right mind would ever lay a hand on a student. The teacher and school staff are there to support and nurture the child, not hit them.

AnnEsthesia, if this is the case, why not have parents home school.... since they will be going to school constantly to discipline their child?!? What would be the BENEFIT of public schooling THEN, as if there IS ONE NOW?

I as a parent have the right to prescribe allowable forms of punishment for my child, when in the care of others. If schools and teachers refuse to do this, they would fail without state aid. (they should fail anyway.....)


You have the right to punish your child as you see fit. You do not have the right to force others to do your punishing for you. If you are dead set on having your child physically punished every time they do something wrong, then yes, please do home school. I am sure the teachers would rather you deal with your child than for you to expect them to raise a hand to your child and open themselves up to legal issues.

[Osborn F. Enready]

AnnEsthesia said:
You have the right to punish your child as you see fit. You do not have the right to force others to do your punishing for you.

Who said anything about FORCING people to punish?
The school has the right to hire teachers that will IMPLEMENT their policy.
If a teacher won't do that, they can be fired, or they can leave of their own will to find a job more suitable with THEIR beliefs.

AnnEsthesia said:
If you are dead set on having your child physically punished every time they do something wrong, then yes, please do home school.

That is my choice, nobody elses.

AnnEsthesia said:
I am sure the teachers would rather you deal with your child than for you to expect them to raise a hand to your child and open themselves up to legal issues.

Are we done having a pity party for poor, put-upon teachers?!?
Teachers have the skills, and the right to work elsewhere, if the school they work for doesn't share their own views on punishment OR education.

[AnnEsthesia]

LMFAO. Sure, go forth and find a school that will happily smack your kid. As long as NO tax dollars are used (whether through public funding or your getting money to send them there), then go for it.

[apdst]

Ann,

You approach is in place, now and it's not working.

[Troubadour]

Ah, I wouldn't say that - both schools and colleges have been struck by a spate of violence recently (in the US, at least).


Actually they haven't. There are hundreds of colleges and tens of thousands of k-12 schools serving millions of students, and the number of school shootings remains statistically insignificant.


For instance, I highly doubt the kid who takes a gun to high school is worried about whether or not he/she would be spanked for it later.


Exactly. And something tells me a beating isn't the solution to an alienated teenager's festering, pent-up rage.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Troubador said:
Actually they haven't. There are hundreds of colleges and tens of thousands of k-12 schools serving millions of students, and the number of school shootings remains statistically insignificant.

Great point that is rarely brought up, much less acknowledged.

[lily]

Big difference from now and when I was in HS is that they now have police officers monitoring the school and all they had when I was in school were student hall monitors. Can you imagine what would happen today if a hall monitor stopped someone and asked to see their pass to be in the halls while classes were in session? They'd probably have their throats slit or be beaten to death on the spot.

Good point, GHJ. I think most of us are still thinking school is like when we went. It's not. I think if a teacher tried to use a paddle, the teacher might be the one that the paddle would be used on.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'd like to also address two other points. Some here say the teacher doesn't know the student.......I would think for some, not all students, the teacher may know them better than their parents, as they spend more time with them.

Also for those that think a swat with a paddle won't work.....maybe you're right, by the time the mis-behaving student does get corporal punnishment, I doubt it would do him much good........but as a teachers visual aide........it might teach someone else not to do it.

It's not just the swat on the butt, it's the embarrassment of it in front of the whole class.

[apdst]

but as a teachers visual aide........it might teach someone else not to do it.

That worked very well for me.

[Elrathin]

Also for those that think a swat with a paddle won't work.....maybe you're right, by the time the mis-behaving student does get corporal punnishment, I doubt it would do him much good........but as a teachers visual aide........it might teach someone else not to do it.


Lily, you are right, but the parents are not supportive of it and we are talking public schools not private in this point and time.

Not only that but with students carrying guns and knives in many instances do you want to put a teacher in that kind of problem?

[Trish]

As a matter of curiousity here, I'm wondering just how many of the people who have responded to this thread have ever spent time in a public school as a teacher in the past 10 years?

[3.14]

Parents have a right to say how their child is educated, AND punished when misbehaving. PARENTS deserve the choice, are ENTITLED to the choice, and the damn governments of the world need to respect that or suffer the consequences.


Alright then, what should be done when a child won't listen and mdisrupts the other class? You think the school system shouldn't do anything and if the parents won't then who?

I don't agree with teachers beating the kids or anything like that, but when the child is disruptive and the parents won't do anything about it, what is the school system supposed to do?


One alternative could be to simply take them out of the class, and not reinstate them unless they behaved?


Nope, schools should not beat on kids.

No one is talking about beating a kid. But, a good paddling ain't never hurt nobody.



Um.. yea it will if the child is already being beaten at home. Physical violence is NOT the answer and won't exactly gain a child's trust.

As I said before, different kids need different treatment. However, complete erasure of corporal punishment has obviously had the wrong effect in the classroom.

I am not sure if taking corporal punishment out of the equation "encourages" the worst kids to misbehave.

It's what's going in the classroom. It's obvious, everyday, the negative effect the lack of physical discipline is having on the school system.



Do you have any source showing that the erasure of corporal punishment in the classroom has "had the wrong effect"?



Elrathin said:
So you're wanting licenses psychologists to be teachers now? Exactly how is the state supposed to pay for that one?

I don't think they should be paying for SCHOOLING THROUGH TAXES, so I surely wouldn't support MORE thievery for schooling. NO, I don't support that.

I said, parents know what works with their children, and they have the RIGHT to select a school that will meet their childs needs, both in education AND correction methods.

AnnEsthesia said:
Sorry, no. How about instead of forcing the schools to abuse the children, the PARENTS take responsibility for it. If the parents want their children hit for talking in class, then that parent can do down and whoop their child. No teacher in their right mind would ever lay a hand on a student. The teacher and school staff are there to support and nurture the child, not hit them.

AnnEsthesia, if this is the case, why not have parents home school.... since they will be going to school constantly to discipline their child?!? What would be the BENEFIT of public schooling THEN, as if there IS ONE NOW?

I as a parent have the right to prescribe allowable forms of punishment for my child, when in the care of others. If schools and teachers refuse to do this, they would fail without state aid. (they should fail anyway.....)


You have the right to punish your child as you see fit. You do not have the right to force others to do your punishing for you. If you are dead set on having your child physically punished every time they do something wrong, then yes, please do home school. I am sure the teachers would rather you deal with your child than for you to expect them to raise a hand to your child and open themselves up to legal issues.


Ann - just curious. You are against physically punishing kids in school, but you are saying (IF I understand you correctly) that it is somehow acceptable for the parents to do so at home? Just playing devil's advocate here (as you can probably tell! :nana:), but, why would it be acceptable to physcially punish a kid at home, but not in school?



Ah, I wouldn't say that - both schools and colleges have been struck by a spate of violence recently (in the US, at least).


Actually they haven't. There are hundreds of colleges and tens of thousands of k-12 schools serving millions of students, and the number of school shootings remains statistically insignificant.


Agreed - thats a great point. Thanks for bringing it up.

I should have said that the level of violence overall has increased from what it used to be before.



For instance, I highly doubt the kid who takes a gun to high school is worried about whether or not he/she would be spanked for it later.


Exactly. And something tells me a beating isn't the solution to an alienated teenager's festering, pent-up rage.


Well said.

[apdst]

Do you have any source showing that the erasure of corporal punishment in the classroom has "had the wrong effect"?

That's easy. If it weren't the case, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[Troubadour]

As a matter of curiousity here, I'm wondering just how many of the people who have responded to this thread have ever spent time in a public school as a teacher in the past 10 years?


I'd be curious about that myself. Somehow I doubt very many would approve of a change in policy - they know good kids who mess up don't deserve to be treated like that, and serious troublemakers aren't going to be deterred by it. They also know that borderline cases who could go either way can be pushed in the wrong direction by callous treatment.

[apdst]

deleted

[AnnEsthesia]

Ann - just curious. You are against physically punishing kids in school, but you are saying (IF I understand you correctly) that it is somehow acceptable for the parents to do so at home? Just playing devil's advocate here (as you can probably tell! :nana:), but, why would it be acceptable to physcially punish a kid at home, but not in school?


Nope, that is not what I mean. There are some rare situations where a swat to the rear is needed, like when the child is putting themselves or others in extreme danger and you need to get the point across clearly. However, hitting a child because they talked in class, or because little Cindy did not put her dishes in the sink is just wrong.

But if you are bound and determined to smack your kid around for small transgressions, then do it yourself. Don't expect others to do it in your place.

No one, whether it is a family member or a paid employee at a school or day care would EVER lay a hand on another person's child. Even if you had agreed to let them do it, you can easily decide that they used too much force or did it wrong and sue their pants off.

[Wndrtch]

I see the difference in schools now and schools when I was a kid. When I was in grade school, hell even high school, none of us would have ever thought about pulling the sh1t that kids pull today. Why? Because--in my case at least--I would have gotten my ass whipped at school, then gotten my ass whipped when I got home.

So, yes, public should impliment a corporal punishment program. In fact, I believe that it should be mandatory. Since corporal punishment has gone missing from the school system, the school system has gone completely to sh1t.


The only problem I see, is thsat in certain cities today, if a teacher in High School hit a kid, that kid might pull out a hand-gun and blow away the teacher.

[namguy]

I see the difference in schools now and schools when I was a kid. When I was in grade school, hell even high school, none of us would have ever thought about pulling the sh1t that kids pull today. Why? Because--in my case at least--I would have gotten my ass whipped at school, then gotten my ass whipped when I got home.

So, yes, public should impliment a corporal punishment program. In fact, I believe that it should be mandatory. Since corporal punishment has gone missing from the school system, the school system has gone completely to sh1t.


The only problem I see, is thsat in certain cities today, if a teacher in High School hit a kid, that kid might pull out a hand-gun and blow away the teacher.


When I was in Catholic School those nuns were nothing but sadists, beat the hell out of us, and it's my understanding they still do it today, maybe not to the degree they did it back then, but it still goes on. One nun hit me on the wrist about 6 times with a pointer because I lost my place while reading aloud! My wrist bone was cracked as a result. When I was in public high school I got paddled 4 times in a row while in English class...cracked the skin on both cheeks of my butt. No I can't see where corprol punisment does any good. When my daughter started school, public school that is, I wrote a note stating that I would handle all corporal punisment, as it was I never smacked my child, never had call to and wouldn't if I had. Children face a number of chalanges while in school they need not be afraid of getting beat...not good.

[firefox]

I voted for the second option. I think private schools should be able, in theory, to do it, and that all schools should be private. That said, I don't think said schools should do it in practice, at least not except in some kind of extreme circumstance.

[ChingChangChewie]

No rights to corporal punishment for the teachers... it's served by the boy or girl's own parents... the teacher's job is to teach his mathmetics and english... many teachers are super dumb, how come they have any rights to punish his students... I don't think corporal punishment is proper in the school... revocation is urged!

[Wndrtch]

No rights to corporal punishment for the teachers... it's served by the boy or girl's own parents... the teacher's job is to teach his mathmetics and english... many teachers are super dumb, how come they have any rights to punish his students... I don't think corporal punishment is proper in the school... revocation is urged!

Personally, I would authorize a school to throw-out consistantly dissruptive brats, and free up the resources for the kids who want to learn soemthing. If the kid/parents decide little Billy is to go back to school, make the brat's parents pay for it.

Public Education is a gift. If that gift is abused, then take it away. Keep it for the kids who want it, and will respect it.

[Deadshot]

First off, how can AnnE be against Corporal Punishment when you look at her avatar? :p

Seriously though, as someone studying to be a teacher, Corporal Punishment is a bad idea. Some people go over the top with it with their kids, imagine them having that power as teachers. Just as there are bad cops, bad doctors and bad clergy there are bad teachers. Finding out that one of my daughters got a spanking, or hit over the hands with a ruler or got their hair pulled which lifted them out of their seat (like I did in Catholic school way back in the day) would have an armed 6'5 300LBS plus Policeman arriving at their doorstep in a very pissed off mood.

We don't allow people to hit people in the real world, not without compensasion, so we shouldn't do it to kids. You swat a three year old for almost running into traffic, understandable. You spank a child as your last resort, I can live with that - everyone loses control with their OWN kids now and then. But to have a system where Corporal Punishment is part of the routine and something done by strangers is simply wrong.

[DamnYankee]

Some little brat getting spanked for misbehaving is always a good thing.

[cronic]

Alot of good reading so far.. Id like to make a couple points.

First off when i was in school I got my ass paddled plenty of times.. when I got home I also got my ass beat.

My whoopins went way to far.. But I'm still here. and have learned from them, from all the years of being beatin up by my dad...

I will first also admit.. the paddlings at school was nothing compared to my at home whoopins.

Now my points and I will be quick about them.

When I was in school, it was a different time then todays.
I'm not saying it was right back in the 60's and 70's or 80's to hit your kids.
(in school or in home), but what I am saying is it's not socially accepted in society today.

When my daughter was in school, and I will feel the same about my grandchildren someday... They will not be hit by anyone with a board..If they do.. major trouble for them.

I let teachers and principles know this also ( when my daughter was in school ), and was told, no worries.. We don't do that here. We call the parents if its that bad. I was fine with that.
( altho I had heard of other students still getting whacks from teachers )

Think about this.. if as a parent, we use corporal punishment on our children..In the public or in the privacy of our own homes, we get reported...we get arrested.. we go to jail and get charged with child abuse...

I say good.. because in our society today, we as adults are supposed to portray the "turn the other cheek" side.. We are supposed to not direct violence at other adults.. thats why there is laws... to think its ok as adults to physically lay a forceful and physical blow on a child, IMO only makes it more wrong.

There are punishments and there is anger.
Most won't admit it but I would bet money that most parents hitting there children, and there is
many many parents hitting there children. It's because they are pissed off because the child did bad.. it was more serving for them then it was the child.

How people could even consider in todays world that corporal punishment is good in anyway in our school systems, makes me wonder where the hell they live, because where I live, thats wrong and against the law to physically hit anyone.. Allowing it in schools, public or private, would be a double standard by how our laws and our lives outside of the school system are conducted.

I also think, or wouldn't be surprised, if their are very many left in the school system that would want to even risk putting a hand on someones child in risk of a lawsuit.

For those of you that think its ok to let a stranger hit your child with a board or a stick..
I feel sorry for you & I think you need :help:

[cronic]

Some little brat getting spanked for misbehaving is always a good thing.

If my child is misbehaving.. I will deal with it.. not a teacher.. not a principle.. not a stranger..

If someone hits my child... I can guarantee, I will either have that person arrested and in a civil court.
or
& just to prove I'm not a holy roller/preacher/mr. honest, goody two shoes..
I will admit it..
Very possibly what would happen is I would
probably blow up and make a boo boo, and show my child the wrong thing, by beating that person's ass and leaving them lie where I drop them. :bye:

[DamnYankee]

That's one of the problems in today's society. All these little punks running around and not a damn thing can be done because some over protective parent will sue. Or worse.

If my child misbehaved in school, I would support any teacher grabbing the little ba*tur* by the collar and busting his a**. Same goes for the cops.

[cronic]

That's one of the problems in today's society. All these little punks running around and not a damn thing can be done because some over protective parent will sue. Or worse.

If my child misbehaved in school, I would support any teacher grabbing the little ba*tur* by the collar and busting his a**. Same goes for the cops.

I don't see it as over protectiveness when someone uses physical violence with minors especially when the adult is using a weapon like
A stick or a wooden paddle..

I have never sued anyone.. ever.. but if you wanna consider me a sue-happy parent because I would sue someone putting there hands on my kid in a violent / physical way.. thats fine.. I wouldn't call it sue-happy.. id call it sticking up for my child's right to not be physically abused.

[DamnYankee]

I don't see it as over protectiveness when someone uses physical violence with minors especially when the adult is using a weapon like
A stick or a wooden paddle..

Cops do it all the time. Would you sue them? Some little brats will beat on the cops, so the cops have no right to defend themselves? BS, if I was a cop I would knock the sh*t out of some brat.

[cronic]

Cops do it all the time. Would you sue them? Some little brats will beat on the cops, so the cops have no right to defend themselves? BS, if I was a cop I would knock the sh*t out of some brat.

First off.. yes.. I would.. because cops are not above the law..
secondly.. There is a difference in self defense and just punishing someone with physicality for doing something wrong, but thats totally off the subject.

I thought we was talking about schools and corporate punishment there.. You bringing up the cops now knocking the sh1t out of children because they hit them first is irrelevant to the OP!

[DamnYankee]

First off.. yes.. I would.. because cops are not above the law..
secondly.. There is a difference in self defense and just punishing someone with physicality for doing something wrong, but thats totally off the subject.

I thought we was talking about schools and corporate punishment there.. You bringing up the cops now knocking the sh1t out of children because they hit them first is irrelevant to the OP!

Some school districts have police forces, that is why I asked.