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thistle
03-29-2008, 02:54 AM
I had never heard of Black Liberation Theology before but since it has been brought out that Senator Obama has been a member of a church and has been mentored by a preacher that has been preaching and teaching it for years, I thought it would be a good idea to do some research and find out just what it is. I found this blog on another site. It is quite interesting and on the site itself it has a couple of links that are also are quite interesting. I am sure Google has scores of other sites that would help shed some light on Black Liberation Theology.

http://www.jeffhead.com/blacklibtheology.htm


THE TRUTH ABOUT BLACK LIBERATION THEOLOGY AND TRINITY CHURCH


Despite the efforts of most of the main stream media (and Obama himself) who are trying to spin the incidents regarding Barack Obama's preacher and spiritual advisor into something acceptable to the American people, along with his speech regarding race, by doing some individual research it becomes clear that the spin will simply just not wash.

Let me preface what I am about to say by stating emphatically that I do not believe the teaching of Reverend Wright or Black Liberation Theology are at all subscribed to by most blacks in this country. I believe it is a minority of radicals whose voices are being given dispproportionate weight in our media. I have many friends in the black community who are traditional Christians who accept Jesus Christ and His aotnement and teaching for the love, long suffering, reason, and forgiveness that they represent to all of us, of all creeds and colors alike.

But the Trinity Church of Christ, to which Obama belongs, subscribes to Black Liberation Theology, which we shall see does not represent those things, and therefore gives voice to Reverned Wright's and others hateful dialog.

I believe that Obama will not leave that Church for one simple and obvious reason. Despite his new found disgust in "some" terminology that Wright employed, Obama in all likelihood agrees with the theology that the church teaches. He is raising his kids in it, and intends to stay with it.

Most of us feel strongly about the Christian churches we attend. If the clergy depart from the theology that we accept in our hearts, we leave them and find a congregation and doctrine that we subscribe to and will make better men and women of us (through the atonement of Jesus Christ) and allow us to help others. If the clergy sticks with the theology we accept in our hearts, we stay with them.

Obama is staying with the Trinity Church and continues to remain close to Wright, despite Wright's disgusting statements...and to be sure, these statements are not statements from one or two sermons alone. No, Reverend Wright is an ardent supporter and preacher of Black Liberation Theology which is at the heart of who he is and what he has said.

This same Black Liberation theology subscribed to by Trinity is clearly what Obama subscribes to. His actions in this regard tell us so. He's been going and donating to that particular church for over twenty yerars. As stated, he is raising his kids in it, immersing them...baptising them into it. And Reverend Wright has done the immersing and baptising.

While it is true that that church has done a lot of good in the black community, helping them to rise socially, taking care of their needy, it is also true that the underlying doctrine must be understood in order to bring into focus the good it does and reconcile it against the hate its preacher also spreads.

That theology can easily be reconciled to its good actions in the black community and the hateful rhetoric it employs by simply studying it. This is something that most of the main stream media has either not done, or refuses to do, because the underlying doctrine is so repulsive that it should negate any major candidate in any way closely associated with it...and that is something that most of the media and the DNC do not want to do. Again, Black Liberation Theology is the admitted theology of Reverend Wright and the congregation. It is something that has helped form Obama and his views and it is therefore worthwhile to understand if we intend to consider him for the office of the Presidency.

It is not your traditional Christian message in the least.

Wright admits that he preaches his brand of that theology which is based, in part, on the works of one James Hal Cone, the recognized pioneer in the black brand of this theology, and someone who has been the Charles Augustus Briggs Distinguished Professor of Systematic Theology at Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York.

Wright refered to Cone and his "pioneering" efforts in his contentious interveiw with Sean Hannity on Fox News in 2007, HERE.

Cone himself is much written and describes this theology in his book A Black Theology for Liberation, which is one of many books he has written. One notable quote in that book decribing Cone's Black Liberation Theology is as follows:


"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love."
That theology accepts a perverted and wrested interpretation of Jesus Christ where it describes him as a poor black man (or man of color) living under oppressive white European rule (the Romans) and that he was as much about social change and bringing down government as he was about spiritual liberation. He therefore meets Cone's (and adherants to this perverted view of our Savior) criteria for a God who supports their black power insurgency against what they describe as the ruling rich white men and women in America.

This interpretation perverts the love of all men that Christ taught, the peace, the forgiveness, and inner, spiritual focus of Christ and His atonement, which teaches us that the change His atonement brings within us heals us spiritually, creating a new man fashioned after Christ who teaches by example, love, and long suffering.

Speaking of these qualities, Cone sarcastically states in the book:


"There is no use for a God who loves white oppressors the same as oppressed blacks. We have had too much of white love, the love that tells blacks to turn the other cheek and go the second mile."
As if this love, and Christ's own words regarding it are somehow a construct of the white race to keep people of color down. Disgusting, and really very, very tragic that people are being raised on this hate...because that is exactly what it is...and Cone says so.


"Black hatred is the black man's strong aversion to white society. No black man living in white America can escape it... While it is true that blacks do hate whites, black hatred is not racism. "
Thus Black Liberation Theology changes Christ, the God of peace and love, into a God of their own construction, a God of hate and revenge, who is hell bent on political and social change at any cost and who supports that hate and "revenge" to suit their needs.

This is the message about Obama's "church" (and others like it) that needs to be spread. I repeat, I do not believe it is at all subscribed to by most blacks in this country, and certainly not by society at large. But it has been hidden, growing...festering, and flying under the radar in these radical churches and because of political correctness it has been heretofore untouchable. But now the cat is out of the bag.

It is shocking, is is disgusting...and it is dangerous.

It is in no way related to, or derived from American foreign policy or society. The fact is America, despite its problems and mistakes, has set more people free (even through a horrific civil war of our own) and and given them individual liberty (and thus individual accountability) and therefore truly assisted more people's on this earth than any other nation on it.

...and there is the rub. Christ teaches that all men are created equal in God's eyes, and that they are individually responsible for their actions with an inate ability to "Come unto Him" and be free. The American constituion, despite changes that required fire and blood to address (and, OBTW, that blood was shed in the civil war principally by white men fighting to, among other things, preserve the Union and free the blacks), sets down in law the same principles.

This theology, Black Liberation Theology, is a blatant attempt to mix and wrest and perevert Christianity into a construct for the age old battle against individual rights. It is a Marxist ideological, collective, class-struggle, and ultimately tyranical construct committed to destroying individual freedom.

This same type of liberation theology has been used for decades in Latin America to pervert Catholics and goad them into rising into Marxist rebellions in class warfare.

That is what this is...and it is the version accepted and practised by black radicals in this country and it is intent on changing this country into a socio-marxist state where wealth, opportunity, and position are not earned by individuals, but instead are handed out by the state...and in this case they simply want to be the ones in control of redistributing it all for their purposes and what they call "their" people.

It is time that this ideology is recognized for what it is and exposed accordingly.

Sublimating
03-29-2008, 06:09 AM
I have not had time to fully read your post but I will say that what I have read I find very interesting. The quote about killing God if he is not against whites, as a black man, I find to be incredibly horrible. I had taken some interest in this liberation theology since the scandal broke. I well be certain to investigate it more fully, and read the rest of your post.

Thank you.

ECW
03-29-2008, 06:33 AM
Well, simply stated, Jeff Head doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground about Liberation Theology. Without a discussion of the contributions of Matthew Fox and Leonardo Boff, you are clueless as to what Liberation Theology is. The tripe that Reverend Wright preaches isn't LT either, no matter what Jeff Head or anyone else says it is.

LT concerns itself with the poor. I saw nothing about the poor in that article, much less what was to be done about the poor. Whatever Rev Wright said about God and race, it did not and does not reflect LT because LT is not about race. It is about God's love for all His children regardless of race and particularly about the poorest of His children.

Jeff Head is as qualified to discuss LT as I am to discuss quantum physics and astronomy as they pertain to advances in scientific research. I can pronounce the words but that's about it.

In short, the article is bullshit.

bishop
03-29-2008, 03:07 PM
it's interesting how certain groups condemn some religious groups when they add politics to the mix - while they coddle other religious groups who do the exact same thing... i guess it's okay for one group to mix in politics so long as they agree with those politics, eh?

wright's example shows that despite what the stupid theology is "supposed to be" about, the reality is a different story. much as the rino's prancing around pretending to be republicans, and all other hypocritical groups...

ECW
03-30-2008, 05:47 AM
it's interesting how certain groups condemn some religious groups when they add politics to the mix - while they coddle other religious groups who do the exact same thing... i guess it's okay for one group to mix in politics so long as they agree with those politics, eh?

wright's example shows that despite what the stupid theology is "supposed to be" about, the reality is a different story. much as the rino's prancing around pretending to be republicans, and all other hypocritical groups...


My condemnation stems from Head ADDING politics to LT when there is none to begin with. Describing a religious movement like LT in political terms is like trying to call a baseball game using only golf terminology and then claiming that baseball sucks because there are so few holes-in-one in a game. Doing it only makes you look ignorant. Wright is dumb for calling brand of religion "black liberation theology" and Head is dumb for not getting the concept of LT to begin with.

apdst
03-30-2008, 05:59 AM
You have to make a distinction between Liberation Theology and Black Liberation Theology. They are two different things and the latter is definitely politically and racially motivated.

preservanation
03-30-2008, 12:29 PM
Sorry if this gets people's shorts in a bunch...but this is nothing more than liberalism, plain and simple.
Black Liberation Theology and Wright's words are the same thing I hear coming from the far left everyday.
Am I wrong?

This stuff is all old-hat.
I can't believe people are just waking up to this.

Elrathin
03-30-2008, 02:20 PM
Black Liberation Theology and Wright's words are the same thing I hear coming from the far left everyday.
Am I wrong?


Yes, you are wrong, can you please show me where the majority of the left are saying:

"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him.

Because I haven't said anything of the sort, and neither have the majority of liberals. So to say they are the same is well.....nuts.

preservanation
03-30-2008, 02:43 PM
El, you live in Cali, right?
I live near Mad WI.
I never said anything about majorities...this is a familiar tact with you. Like "large group"
I trip over people every day who say we deserved what we got on 911, America is a racist country, and we stack the deck against minorities.
Familiar stuff.

Elrathin
03-30-2008, 02:48 PM
El, you live in Cali, right?
I live near Mad WI.
I never said anything about majorities...this is a familiar tact with you. Like "large group"
I trip over people every day who say we deserved what we got on 911, America is a racist country, and we stack the deck against minorities.
Familiar stuff.


When you say you hear this from the left everyday, you are saying the majority or the entire left. Simple English with nouns and such Pres.

How about you say that you hear it from the left where you live ok? Maybe that would help clear things up.

And I live in Nevada, not California.

bishop
03-30-2008, 02:52 PM
My condemnation stems from Head ADDING politics to LT when there is none to begin with. Describing a religious movement like LT in political terms is like trying to call a baseball game using only golf terminology and then claiming that baseball sucks because there are so few holes-in-one in a game. Doing it only makes you look ignorant. Wright is dumb for calling brand of religion "black liberation theology" and Head is dumb for not getting the concept of LT to begin with.


again, this is where theory and reality part ways..

not believing in the tooth fairy, i can't say i have a clue what's said in black churches - or any other church for that matter.. but, given what i've seen from black "leaders" such as the extortionists like jackson and sharpton - my assumption is that wright's comments aren't entirely abnormal. sure seems to fit into a pattern.

preservanation
03-30-2008, 02:54 PM
El, you live in Cali, right?
I live near Mad WI.
I never said anything about majorities...this is a familiar tact with you. Like "large group"
I trip over people every day who say we deserved what we got on 911, America is a racist country, and we stack the deck against minorities.
Familiar stuff.


When you say you hear this from the left everyday, you are saying the majority or the entire left. Simple English with nouns and such Pres.

How about you say that you hear it from the left where you live ok? Maybe that would help clear things up.

Sorry,
"I hear this anti-American stuff from some on the left frequently."
Better?
Sheeesh.

ECW
03-30-2008, 03:31 PM
My condemnation stems from Head ADDING politics to LT when there is none to begin with. Describing a religious movement like LT in political terms is like trying to call a baseball game using only golf terminology and then claiming that baseball sucks because there are so few holes-in-one in a game. Doing it only makes you look ignorant. Wright is dumb for calling brand of religion "black liberation theology" and Head is dumb for not getting the concept of LT to begin with.


again, this is where theory and reality part ways..

not believing in the tooth fairy, i can't say i have a clue what's said in black churches - or any other church for that matter.. but, given what i've seen from black "leaders" such as the extortionists like jackson and sharpton - my assumption is that wright's comments aren't entirely abnormal. sure seems to fit into a pattern.


That may be the case and I'm not arguing that point. What I am saying is that none of what Rev Wright talks about can be stretched into something anywhere resembling Liberation Theology, black or otherwise. It isn't a political theory. It's a religious one which focuses on Jesus and His preferential option for the poor. None of that even get mentioned in Wright's rantings or Head's stupid so-called analysis.

apdst
03-30-2008, 03:50 PM
ECW,

Are you in denial, or do you not know what you're even talking about?

suedanim
03-30-2008, 11:46 PM
My condemnation stems from Head ADDING politics to LT when there is none to begin with. Describing a religious movement like LT in political terms is like trying to call a baseball game using only golf terminology and then claiming that baseball sucks because there are so few holes-in-one in a game. Doing it only makes you look ignorant. Wright is dumb for calling brand of religion "black liberation theology" and Head is dumb for not getting the concept of LT to begin with.


again, this is where theory and reality part ways..

not believing in the tooth fairy, i can't say i have a clue what's said in black churches - or any other church for that matter.. but, given what i've seen from black "leaders" such as the extortionists like jackson and sharpton - my assumption is that wright's comments aren't entirely abnormal. sure seems to fit into a pattern.


I can assure you its not all that uncommon, nor is conservative pandering and manipulative preaching uncommon in predominantly white churches...

The black church has always been the center of the black community and well it earned its reputation. It was the one place blacks could go to and be themselves, speak their minds and be heard. I have great admiration for the strength of black pastors in encouraging and strengthening an often distraught, disenfranchised people.

suedanim
03-30-2008, 11:49 PM
My condemnation stems from Head ADDING politics to LT when there is none to begin with. Describing a religious movement like LT in political terms is like trying to call a baseball game using only golf terminology and then claiming that baseball sucks because there are so few holes-in-one in a game. Doing it only makes you look ignorant. Wright is dumb for calling brand of religion "black liberation theology" and Head is dumb for not getting the concept of LT to begin with.


again, this is where theory and reality part ways..

not believing in the tooth fairy, i can't say i have a clue what's said in black churches - or any other church for that matter.. but, given what i've seen from black "leaders" such as the extortionists like jackson and sharpton - my assumption is that wright's comments aren't entirely abnormal. sure seems to fit into a pattern.


That may be the case and I'm not arguing that point. What I am saying is that none of what Rev Wright talks about can be stretched into something anywhere resembling Liberation Theology, black or otherwise. It isn't a political theory. It's a religious one which focuses on Jesus and His preferential option for the poor. None of that even get mentioned in Wright's rantings or Head's stupid so-called analysis.


Exactly right ECW.

The biggest problem I have with ignorance like this posted to message boards is the trolls who don't stick around to defend it.

ECW
03-31-2008, 12:23 AM
ECW,

Are you in denial, or do you not know what you're even talking about?


I'm not sure how to respond to your convoluted sentence or even what you are attempting to ask.

I can certifiably state that I am not in denial in any way, shape or form on this particular subject but since you have chosen to interject your two cents into this thread, launch a personal inquiry which has no basis in fact or theory, I am left to conclude that you actually have nothing to say. Your lack of knowledge on the subject of Liberation Theology is readily apparent and hereby noted.

When you have something of value to offer, come on back. Try not to make it about me next time and stick to the thread topic if you can.

apdst
03-31-2008, 12:31 AM
ECW,

I can't not make it about you, sir. You obviously don't understand the difference between Liberation Theology and Black Libeartion Theology.

thistle
03-31-2008, 03:59 AM
It seems there are those who have a problem with the author of the article I posted. OK. Might I suggest googling "Black Liberation Theology" as there are over 50 pages and hundreds of assorted links on "Black Liberation Theolgy". If one has never heard of it before like myself, it never hurts to do a little research. I just thought I would share what I had found with the board not realizing that I had to defend the article or else be labled a troll.

ECW
03-31-2008, 05:26 AM
ECW,

I can't not make it about you, sir. You obviously don't understand the difference between Liberation Theology and Black Libeartion Theology.


Quite the contrary. I have demonstrated knowledge about Liberation Theology far past what you could ever hope to show while your contribution has to ask me if I am in denial or question as to whether I know what I am talking about. YOU made it about me, straying off topic in doing so. Keep your future comments to the issue at hand and not whether I meet some mysterious criteria for which you yourself cannot meet and have not demonstrated any proficiency in. Frankly, it is YOU that obviously doesn't understand the difference between Liberation Theology and Black Libeartion Theology.

Elrathin
03-31-2008, 05:42 AM
/sarcasm on

ECW I think what apdst is asking is what about the n***er Liberation Theology (minus black Republicans of course). At least that is what it sounds like to me. Because as you know, blacks are all racist against whites (Except for those that are Republican) and the such and all so that means that anything those liberal blacks must mean is racist against whites.

/sarcasm off

ECW
03-31-2008, 03:06 PM
Thanks for the translation, El. The people that I sat with at the county convention (who were mostly black folks) might be somewhat surprised at apdst's interpretation but then that wouldn't be surprising either.

My whole bone of contention with the branding of these thoughts as "Black Liberation Theology" is the smear that it casts upon Liberation Theology, a religious doctrine more than four decades old. Nothing said in the OP is anything close to what Liberation Theology stands for and, thus, my protests. Simple as that.