Obamas' Preacher Wright... or Wrong?

[DANG]

I saw a story headline saying the event didnt harm Obamas polling, so I decided to go back and watch the tape. Things can get blown out of proportion in the heat of the moment. Cooler heads will prevail, and all that.

But at the time I didnt really look closely at EXACTLY what Preacher Wright said.
At :47 seconds he said:

"The Government gives em the drugs... builds bigger prisons... passes the three strikes law....and then wants us to sing God Bless America?
No no no, not God Bless America, but God Damn America! Thats in the Bible, for killin' innocent people...for treating her citizens as less than human"

Is it unAmerican to criticize the government when it goes wrong? Or do we have a duty to appeal to the government for a redress of grievances when it goes HORRIBLY WRONG?

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." ~Carl Schurz

"My country, right or wrong," is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, "My mother, drunk or sober." ~G. K. Chesterton

Preacher Wright was only pointing out that God is not a respecter of persons. If a nation is in genocide mode... will God bless that country?

Remember when the founding fathers were afraid God would damn them for the atrocities of the Revolutionary War?

Gods blessing is a fragile thing. Its easy enough for US to hand out his blessings.... as if we really had that kind of Power to control who God will bless. Can we persuade (or con or demand) God to damn ANYBODY? No, we can say the words (even though we were commanded not to curse anyone) but, will God follow through?

Maybe more blacks have to be murdered and imprisoned (Jesus) before things will get better.

Or we can appeal to Americans sensibilities to end the travesty of racism that SHOULD be long dead.

What do we deserve from God? Blessings? Curses? Maybe we should all listen to those who have been cursed and ease their suffering.... rather than judging and condemning them as traitors for merely pointing at the truth.

The video in question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5SEsKPLZ1U

[Osborn F. Enready]

Reverend Wright is just ANOTHER of many tools being used to divide this nation along arbitrary lines of emotion, as opposed to lines of reason.

Part of the plan to divide and conquer.

Wright is just another Jesse Jackson, another Al Sharpton, another Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell..... an agent of extremism, an agent of intolerance, an agent of hate being used to divide the nation along lines of emotionally charged rabble, instead of focusing in WHAT MATTERS, like the RIGHTS OF ALL PEOPLE in this nation, not merely groups or their special "constituents" and supporters.

Tool, that is the best word for them all. They are tools.

[AlanC]

I don't look to my preachers to foment racial divide and hate. When the good reverend states that it was whites who created the aids virus to eradicate blacks, he is doing just that.

Another who lives by cultivating racial divide instead of working to remove it. He is, was, a profiteer in racial politics.

[DANG]

Os;
The "rights of all people" are not breached like the rights of blacks are in the court system. There are more blacks in prison than in school.

Sure, the rights of all people need to be defended....
there is no denying the disparity.

Will the racism go away because it is ignored?

You called Wright "an agent of hate", is that because he hates injustice?

I dont see him as "an agent of hate".

Can you explain?

[4Reaganomics]

I don't understand how the government gives them drugs. The government never gave me drugs, and has never given any of the minorities I attend school with drugs.

The three strikes law was designed to keep repeat criminals off of the street. While some of the drug laws are unpopular, that law is designed to keep people accountable for their actions and deter crime, and I think it does a fair job at that.

America builds bigger prisons because of the increase in crime and because there are a certain number of substance laws that shouldn't even be in effect.

This country is not in genocide mode. Wrights comments are just excuses made by another type of Jessie Jackson figure who refuses to make people accountable for their actions, and refuses to see its no longer 1955.

A brilliant black man named Larry Elder wrote a book named "Stupid Black Men". He explains why those who share Wrights hatred for old American ways and apply them to the present tense are wrong. I strongly advise that some of the members on this forum read this book, it gives an indepth look at the many ways that minorities can succeed and how we should not let them use excuses from actions that took place 50 and 100 years ago for not doing well.

[4Reaganomics]

Maybe he was an agent of hate when he said that "Italians were looking down their garlic noses" in his latest sound clip released.

No, it couldn't be, Wright is just a really good guy who treats everyone fair and equal. He has no hate towards anyone....

[DANG]

When the good reverend states that it was whites who created the aids virus to eradicate blacks,....I heard that somewhere, too.
Is it that far fetched?

Bio warfare has been around for millennia. In the dark ages corpses smitten by plague were vaulted over citiy walls.

You cant deny AIDS has killed millions of Africans.

...and America used to take Black children out of class to be sterilized.
Wiki: Compulsory Sterilization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization)

In the first half of the twentieth century, many such programs were instituted in many countries around the world, usually as part of eugenics programs intended to prevent the reproduction and multiplication of members of the population considered to be carriers of defective genetic traits.Because Black was/is considered a "defective genetic trait".
the United States, which sterilized over 64,000 individuals from 1900s through the 1970s,

<snip, snip>

Native Americans, as well as Afro-American women [1], were sterilized against their will in many states, often without their knowledge, while they were in a hospital for other reasons (e.g. childbirth). Some sterilizations also took place in prisons and other penal institutions, targeting criminality, but they were in the relative minority. In the end, over 65,000 individuals were sterilized in 33 states under state compulsory sterilization programs in the United States.[2]
Is this the kind of America that God will BLESS? ....Or is it the model for Nazi Germany whom God did not bless?

[Osborn F. Enready]

Dang said:
Os;
The "rights of all people" are not breached like the rights of blacks are in the court system.

Examples please?

Dang said:
There are more blacks in prison than in school.

There are several reasons for this, but I grant that some are based on racial bias.
These things can be corrected without reverse racism. If you have valid intrest in justice, you seek justice, not revenge or a reversal of bias from one group to another.

Dang said:
Sure, the rights of all people need to be defended....
there is no denying the disparity.

Will the racism go away because it is ignored?

Racism is not a "white only" problem. There are racist blacks, racist mexicans, racist native americans, etc. There are also examples of each in law and application of law to some degree.

Affirmative Action for example is not a case of justice, but more of "revenge" or "re-allocating" the bias.

People have a right to hold their own opinions Dang, the laws job is the role of ensuring that opinion doesn't infringe the equal rights of others in their pursuits.

Dang said:
You called Wright "an agent of hate", is that because he hates injustice?

No, because he uses racial bias and the same form of "group classification and discrimination" that he rallies against, in his own speech. He is a typical hypocrite, much like Falwell, Robertson, Sharpton and Jackson.

Dang said:
I dont see him as "an agent of hate".

You are more compassionate toward the perceived value of religion than I.

You have more "faith in faith" than I do.

You openly admit you have a bias toward faith for personal reasons, while I have no such bias or ties to faith as some "benefit" in my life, nor do I seek it.

The only thing I seek is a level playing field for all individual citizens under the eyes of the law, based on equal rights as enumerated in the BOR.

Dang said:
Can you explain?

In detail if the above descriptions didn't do the job for you.

[cronic]

I hate to be an "I agree" person without any backup .. but once in a while its going to happen.. this is one of them times.


Reverend Wright is just ANOTHER of many tools being used to divide this nation along arbitrary lines of emotion, as opposed to lines of reason.

Part of the plan to divide and conquer.

Wright is just another Jesse Jackson, another Al Sharpton, another Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell..... an agent of extremism, an agent of intolerance, an agent of hate being used to divide the nation along lines of emotionally charged rabble, instead of focusing in WHAT MATTERS, like the RIGHTS OF ALL PEOPLE in this nation, not merely groups or their special "constituents" and supporters.

Tool, that is the best word for them all. They are tools.


Very well put OS.. I can't say anything better.. except agree whole heartedly.

[DANG]

I don't understand how the government gives them drugs. You dont understand how...I dont understand why.
Start here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0VyO_jaJFs

The government never gave me drugs, and has never given any of the minorities I attend school with drugs.Ah but it was imported and made available by the CIA (cocaine importing agency)

The three strikes law was designed to keep repeat criminals off of the street. While some of the drug laws are unpopular, that law is designed to keep people accountable for their actions and deter crime, and I think it does a fair job at that. Why is Crack cocaine (Blacks preference) possession a federal offense where the same amount of powder (white prefwerence) possession is a misdemeanor? Easy, its Racial Bias.

America builds bigger prisons because of the increase in crime and because there are a certain number of substance laws that shouldn't even be in effect. I agree with that. Drug addiction/possession should be treated as a disease, not a crime.

This country is not in genocide mode. Wrights comments are just excuses made by another type of Jessie Jackson figure who refuses to make people accountable for their actions, and refuses to see its no longer 1955. I said genocide mode because American policies are written at the table of power, where only white-hetero-male have the privilege of a seat. This does not bode well for the black man. Blacks are still treated less than their counterparts. Their votes are not counted... there is no rescue from floods caused by official neglect of the levees.... You cannot know until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Imagine being perpetually disconnected from the priveleges you take for granted. You cannot walk into a store without being followed, you would be constantly refused apartment rentals and auto dealers may even charge extra just because.

Genocides first 3 (of 8) stages are in play:
The 8 Stages of Genocide (http://www.genocide1915.info/research/view.asp?ID=28)
by Gregory H. Stanton (Genocide Watch - 5/15/2003)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. CLASSIFICATION:

All cultures have categories to distinguish people into "us and them" by ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality: German and Jew, Hutu and Tutsi. Bipolar societies that lack mixed categories, such as Rwanda and Burundi, are the most likely to have genocide.
The main preventive measure at this early stage is to develop universalistic institutions that transcend ethnic or racial divisions, that actively promote tolerance and understanding, and that promote classifications that transcend the divisions. The Catholic church could have played this role in Rwanda, had it not been riven by the same ethnic cleavages as Rwandan society. Promotion of a common language in countries like Tanzania or Cote d'Ivoire has also promoted transcendent national identity. This search for common ground is vital to early prevention of genocide.

2. SYMBOLIZATION:

We give names or other symbols to the classifications. We name people "Jews" or "Gypsies", or distinguish them by colors or dress; and apply them to members of groups. Classification and symbolization are universally human and do not necessarily result in genocide unless they lead to the next stage, dehumanization. When combined with hatred, symbols may be forced upon unwilling members of pariah groups: the yellow star for Jews under Nazi rule, the blue scarf for people from the Eastern Zone in Khmer Rouge Cambodia.

To combat symbolization, hate symbols can be legally forbidden (swastikas) as can hate speech. Group marking like gang clothing or tribal scarring can be outlawed, as well. The problem is that legal limitations will fail if unsupported by popular cultural enforcement. Though Hutu and Tutsi were forbidden words in Burundi until the 1980's, code-words replaced them. If widely supported, however, denial of symbolization can be powerful, as it was in Bulgaria, when many non-Jews chose to wear the yellow star, depriving it of its significance as a Nazi symbol for Jews. According to legend in Denmark, the Nazis did not introduce the yellow star because they knew even the King would wear it.

3. DEHUMANIZATION:

One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases. Dehumanization overcomes the normal human revulsion against murder.

At this stage, hate propaganda in print and on hate radios is used to vilify the victim group. In combating this dehumanization, incitement to genocide should not be confused with protected speech. Genocidal societies lack constitutional protection for countervailing speech, and should be treated differently than in democracies. Hate radio stations should be shut down, and hate propaganda banned. Hate crimes and atrocities should be promptly punished.
The current dehumanization involves putting them in cages (LONG term) like animals, for non-violent 'crimes'.
Poverty is the real criminal....that it is allowed to swallow up whole ethnic cross sections of the population is genocide. The conditions perpetuate violence and drug and alcohol abuse. it is seemingly the only escape from a futile existence.



A brilliant black man named Larry Elder wrote a book named "Stupid Black Men". He explains why those who share Wrights hatred for old American ways and apply them to the present tense are wrong. I strongly advise that some of the members on this forum read this book, it gives an indepth look at the many ways that minorities can succeed and how we should not let them use excuses from actions that took place 50 and 100 years ago for not doing well.That would work fine....if the same actions and attitudes no longer existed.

Stereotypes are strong as ever. Sure some blacks perpetuate the stereotypes (example: "Nigga Please")
But they are not the only ones. The Crack vs Powder Cocaine travesty is an obvious example of the White-Male-Hetero power structure and acting like it doesnt exist will only strengthen and perpetuate it, because it isnt addressed at the table of power. It changes nothing to ignore it.
It is not a myth. The bias is real.


I gotta run... I dont know how complete this is...

[4Reaganomics]

One of the main points I am trying to make here is that drugs are widely available to everyone. No one entity gave them specifically to blacks, nor did they force blacks to use the drugs

Any person can take drugs. The idea of drugs being available in our society is solely to oppress blacks is absurd. They just seem to be a demographic that is making more destructive decisions than good decisions. Why? Their upbringing and culture has a good deal to do with it.

Also, there are more blacks in prison than there are in school for a variety of reasons. One of the main reasons is personal choice, thus they must deal with personal responsibility.

The notion that because one demographic isn't statistically doing as well as another due to oppression is absurd to me in today's day and age.

The American Dream is alive, the only people not taking part in it are those who chose to make excuses for their own convenience, and that is the true travesty.

[brien]

Reverend Wright is just ANOTHER of many tools being used to divide this nation along arbitrary lines of emotion, as opposed to lines of reason.

Part of the plan to divide and conquer.

Wright is just another Jesse Jackson, another Al Sharpton, another Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell..... an agent of extremism, an agent of intolerance, an agent of hate being used to divide the nation along lines of emotionally charged rabble, instead of focusing in WHAT MATTERS, like the RIGHTS OF ALL PEOPLE in this nation, not merely groups or their special "constituents" and supporters.

Tool, that is the best word for them all. They are tools.


I couldn't have written it better myself...Good post there Os.:thumbsup:

[Wndrtch]

"The Government gives em the drugs... builds bigger prisons... passes the three strikes law....and then wants us to sing God Bless America?
No no no, not God Bless America, but God Damn America! Thats in the Bible, for killin' innocent people...for treating her citizens as less than human"

Is it unAmerican to criticize the government when it goes wrong? Or do we have a duty to appeal to the government for a redress of grievances when it goes HORRIBLY WRONG?

I would say it is un-American to suggest that our Government is systematically handing out drugs to Black people, just to get them hooked so the can get arrested and imprisoned indefinitely because of violating three-strikes laws. It's conspiracy pushing at best.

Of course, the good Rev fails to mention that no one is forcing those black folks to take the drugs offered. They could say no.

[Mia]

Why is Crack cocaine (Blacks preference) possession a federal offense where the same amount of powder (white prefwerence) possession is a misdemeanor? Easy, its Racial Bias.

Nope - they are very different drugs. Cocaine has not destroyed entire neighborhoods, for one thing. It's no where near as deadly. Meth is more comparable, and more of a white man's drug, and the penalties for it are now becoming equal with crack, as it has shown itself to be an equal rival.

Do you really think 'the white man' invented AIDS to kill black people? If so, which white man (men)?

I didn't, you didn't. Did GWB? What has that got to do with the USA? Particularly today's USA? We're not committing genocide on blacks anymore than we are whites who use drugs and go to jail for the crimes they commit.



I understand partly where Wright is coming from, and I've no problem with him saying 'God Damn America' in the context that he did.

I feel, as you do, that it is not just our right, but our obligation to criticize our government when it goes astray, but I'm going to concur with Os on his assessment of this man.

[Sublimating]

I don't know of any black people besides Rev Wright who think the government created aids to kill blacks.
However, as a people we tend (rightly so) to be more distrusting of government and more apt to believe that the government has conspired to harm us. The way many blacks see this Rev Wright issue is as follows.

Much of White America has sung and said "God bless America" from the beginning till the present. When blacks where being hit with fire hoses during the civil rights marches they sang "God bless America" When blacks were brutalized under the Dred Scott policies they sang "God bless America" This man Wright comes along and says no "God dam America" for it's treatment of African Americans and many blacks dont' agree with this but they can understand why he would say it.

If the government put half the energy they put into keeping blacks oppressed in the past and punishing them in the present ,into helping resolve problems that resulted from decades of discrimination and oppression, we wouldn't see the kind of incarceration stats on blacks that we have now.

The bottom line is that for many Americans patriotism is the highest calling. Many have missed the call to righteousness for answering the call to patriotism. This occurs when the love and devotion ones feels to their country blinds them to the wrong that their country has committed or if when they are forced to choose they choose country over conscience.

This being said I would never say "God dam America" I would pray for God to guide America when it goes astray.

[ViolaLee]

Martin Luther King said a lot of the same things. He was also shunned afterwards. But now he's an American hero.

[Drocket]

Martin Luther King said a lot of the same things. He was also shunned afterwards. But now he's an American hero.

Only so much as 99% of what he said is ignored and forgotten. I swear that if you just listened to the news, you'd think the sole thing he did in his entire life was give the "I have a dream" speech, followed shortly thereafter by his death. He should be an American hero for so many reasons, but instead he's been reduced to little more than a token black from the days when racism actually existed.

Getting back to the main discussion, specifically aids: I do think he's a bit of a conspiracy nut for thinking that aids was specifically created to be used against black people. At the same time, when you look at how aids was treated after it was discovered, its pretty much undeniable that bigotry was involved. It started out as a gay disease, and the public reaction was halfway beyond non-existent and "good, that's what those filthy sinners deserved." It started spreading through the black community, and that got little more than a shrug. Then it finally started to make itself known among the straight white community, and suddenly we had a panic. Quickly, we need medical research and education programs to stem the spread!

Combine that with America's history of using black people as guinea pigs in medical experiments, and I think it becomes rather understandable that some people are suspicious. I think they're wrong in this particular case, but I can understand where they're coming from.

As for most of the rest of the stuff he said: spot on.

[DamnYankee]

Wright's a racist. End of story.

Barak Hussein Obama is stupid for even being associated with the guy. For over 20 years mind you. Sounds fishy.