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AlonzoMourning23
08-28-2006, 04:40 AM
The reassuring female voice asks the child a question: "Can you show me the doll that looks bad?"

The child, a preschool-aged Black girl, quickly picks up and shows the Black doll over a White one that is identical in every respect except complexion.

"And why does that look bad?"

"Because she's Black," the little girl answers emphatically.

"And why is this the nice doll?" the voice continues.

"Because she's White."

"And can you give me the doll that looks like you?"

The little girl hesitates for a split second before handing over the Black doll that she has just designated as the uglier one.

This was not the 1954 doll test used by pioneering psychologist Kenneth B. Clark to help make the case for desegregation in the landmark Brown v. Board of Education Supreme Court decision outlawing segregated public schools. Rather, it was a doll test duplicated in Harlem, N. Y., last year, more than a half-century after Brown. To the chagrin of parents and psychologists across the nation, the results were unchanged.

The test is again in the news because of an 8-minute documentary produced by 17-year-old film student Kiri Davis of Manhattan's Urban Academy who participates in the Reel Works Teen Filmmaking program, a free after school program supported by HBO.

The video taped doll test resulted from a collection of writings Davis had compiled on issues of importance to Black girls in her high school. In that writing, she noticed that complexion was a recurring theme.

"I knew what my friends were going through. These standards of beauty just kept coming up," Davis said in an interview with the NNPA News Service. "I thought it was an issue that needed to be exposed more, although at times it seemed too taboo to talk about. But I thought a film would just put it all out there and cause discussion."

In realizing that so many dark-skinned girls have been told that lighter or Whiter skin is more beautiful, Davis decided to drive home her point by conducting the doll study.

"You could tell these people about the standards of beauty that are forced on young girls all you want to. But they won't get it until you show them," she said.

And that, she did.

The children are from a Harlem Day Care Center. And 15 of the 21 children surveyed preferred the White doll over the Black one, a results that has astounded many.

Clark and his wife Mamie Phipps Clark, also a psychologist, conducted the doll study in 1950 that showed how racial segregation destroyed the self-esteem of Black children. The Clarendon County, S. C. experiment involved 16 Black children, ages 6 to 9. They asked the children their perception of a White doll and a Black doll. Eleven of the students said the Black doll looked "bad" and nine said the White doll looked "nice".

The test results influenced the U. S. Supreme Court to hold school segregation to be unconstitutional in the 1954 Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Kans. case. Arguing against the separate-but-equal doctrine in 1952, Thurgood Marshall, then an attorney for the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, cited Clark's work as proof of the doctrine's damage to the self-image of Black children. On May 17, 1954, Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren announced the court's decision to desegregate schools in Brown v. Board of Education. Clark's doll test was one of his citations as proof of the psychological damage on Black children.

The Davis test shows that psychology has not changed very much at all.

"I'm really not shocked, I am sad to say," says Julia Hare, a San Francisco psychologist. "If you keep doing what you've always done, you're going to keep getting what you've always had. Our children are bombarded with images every day that they see on television screens and on coffee tables either the light-skinned female that everybody is pushing or they give preference to the closest to White images."

Davis' film also features brief interviews with four teens who object to having been stereotyped as less intelligent or uglier simply because they do not meet the expectations of advertisers' perceived standards of beauty.

That White-is-right image is also projected through music.

"Look at our rap artists and entertainers, and not just the Lil' Kims and the Beyonces," says Hare. "Their skin is getting lighter and lighter and they're getting blonder and blonder."

Gail Wyatt, a professor of clinical psychiatry at the University of California at Los Angeles, says she would recommend to any parent to instill racial pride into their children well before pre-school.

"Youngsters come into their homes making disparaging remarks about being brown or African-descended or about nappy hair," says Wyatt. "It is a definite concern of any parent. We want to know how our children can grow up in their own skin. We can't leave that part of a child's development to the school system or the neighborhood."

Children should be socialized between the ages of 2-4 to understand culture and skin color, Wyatt says. "They should be taught a concept of beauty and a context of ancestry."

Kiri's mother, Ursula Davis, an education consultant, says educating her daughter and instilling pride about her heritage was a high priority around the home.

She says that when Kiri was in pre-kindergarten, enjoying the tales of Cinderella and Snow White, she once said out loud at school that she wanted to be a princess, too.

A little friend, a Hispanic boy, quickly dispelled her dream. He told her she couldn't be a princess because she was Black and that only White girls were princesses.

For a while, Kiri believed her little friend - but not for long.

"She grew up with African art around her. We took her to an exhibit in the Smithsonian about Black women in Washington, D.C.," Davis recalls. "She began to read veraciously about Black heritage and African-American studies...She has immersed herself since she was very young and we've immersed her in the celebration of who she is."

And it has obviously paid off as Kiri looks forward to a future in filmmaking that will also instill pride.

"I almost accepted it at first," says the teenager, recalling the childhood exchange. "Now I only want to make films that are about issues that are of importance to me, films that don't show the stereotypes."

Some parents say their children are bombarded with countless negative images each day and that it takes a special effort to compete with those images.

"I make sure I know what they see and what they watch on television. And many times we are watching things together," says Alethea Holland, a Washington, D.C. mother of three daughters ages 7, 9 and 15. "And I give them each a mirror and I try to make them look in the mirror and appreciate their beauty and I make sure that they hear what I say; not what other people say - especially at school."

Sandra Cox, director of the Coalition of Mental Health Professionals in Los Angeles and a past president of the Association of Black Psychologists, says the short film clip may have understated the problem.

"I believe if any of us out here [on the West Coast] were to do the same study, it would be still worse," she says. "Hollywood created the standard."


http://www.louisianaweekly.com/weekly/news/articlegate.pl?20060821b

Method
In Rosenthal's study the participants included all the students in the first through six grades. Each student was given an IQ test called the Test of General Ability (TOGA), but the teachers were told that the students were taking the Harvard Test of Inflected Acquisition which would identify which students would bloom more rapidly academically. The experimenters chose the TOGA because it was a nonverbal test in which the score was not dependent upon the students’ mastery of such school-learned skills as reading, writing, and arithmetic. Another advantage of using this test was that it was more likely that the teachers would not be familiar with it. After the children were tested teachers were given results of those who scored in the top twenty percentile, but the names of the students who scored highly were not based on tests instead the names were randomly chosen. Near the end of the year, the same IQ test was given once again to the students. This was done to measure significant changes in those students the teachers were told were brighter as compared to those students that were not.

Results
For the most part, the students who were identified as the top twenty percentile had shown an increase in IQ greater than those who were not identified as “bloomers”. For the entire school, the students thought to be “gifted” averaged a 12.2 increase in I.Q. while the rest only averaged an 8.2 increase. This phenomenon was more pronounced in the first and second grades and nearly nonexistent in the fifth and sixth grade. Other grade levels did not show a distinctive relation between teachers’ expectations and students’ performance. Rosenthal also looked at the percentage of first- and second-grade students with major gains in I.Q. perhaps to emphasize the much higher increases in levels of I.Q. among those students thought to be gifted.

Discussion
Rosenthal suggested that this happened because perhaps children are thought to be more malleable or because students did not have established reputations yet. Rosenthal also suggested that students in the lower grades might be more susceptible to subtle changes the teacher makes to encourage successful performance. Although Rosenthal did not elaborate, he mentioned that lower-grade teachers may communicate their expectations of students better or more clearly than the upper-grade teachers. Overall the importance of Rosenthal's and Jacobson's study was that an individual’s expectation does in fact affect the outcome of the subjects’ performance. Rosenthal and Jacobson were able to support the hypothesis. The only limitations or problems were the fact that older students did not show such an increase in IQ scores.

Subsequent research done by Chaiken, Singler, and Derlega involved using videotape to capture teachers interaction with students that had been identified as bright students. These interactions revealed that teachers smile and make more eye contact with bright students while other students are treated in a generalized standard manner. As a result those students who teachers have higher expectations of generally do better which proves the correlation between expectations and performance. The biggest study was at the "Oak School", an otherwise unidentified United States primary school. Teachers were deceived into believing that a set of one fifth of their class were expected to develop much faster than the rest, as measured by IQ points. In fact, this set was randomly selected, or rather selected by stratified random sampling, giving a better guarantee that the participants were extremely similar in both mean and variation to the rest of the class. The main measure was a kind of IQ test, administered at the start of the school year (pretest) and at four months (end of first semester), eight months (end of second semester and of first year of school), and 20 months (end of second school year with a different teacher). Maximum overall effect was found at eight months, but a lot of gain was still present at 20 months. There was a big effect on first and second grade children by the end of the first year. By the end of the second year, much of the improvement differential had disappeared from those classes, but in other classes positive effects had emerged for the first time. Girls and boys gained in somewhat different ways (verbal vs. reasoning subscales). The advantage was true of pre/post testing using an IQ test. It was also true of teacher assessments, e.g. reading grades, which showed a big effect with the third grade group as well. They also did blind re-testing of a sample by an examiner who was not the teacher and who didn't know which were supposed to do well; here they got results showing a greater difference. Another effect was that pupils in the control group who improved against expectation were disliked by teachers, or at least showed signs of conflict with them. This is the biggest and most careful study. Besides primary school pupils, it has also been shown for algebra at the United States Air Force Academy and for university students as well.



http://www.answers.com/topic/pygmalion-effect

Labrocca
08-28-2006, 07:38 AM
Great finds Alonzo. These results say a whole lot. I wonder though if the fact that desegration of the school system being influenced by the doll test..and now the tests haven't changed..means something. I think desegration was the right thing but obviously it wasn't segration of schools that caused the negativity of black self-image.

I blame the media for that. My wife perms her hair...I asked her to let it go natural but she refuses to look "nappy". I think it's odd a person doesn't want to look how they really are. I think a well kept afro looks rather good...

These findings are all rather sad.

dsanthony
08-28-2006, 01:52 PM
Well, there are standards of beauty, and negroid features are simply and honestly not as attractive as white, asian or hispanic features. A few years ago I was talking to a young black child, about 4 years old. He reached up and touched my hair and said "when I grow up, I want to have hair like yours."

Black women spend lots of money to get the "kinks" removed from their hair. White women spend lots of money improving their looks as well.

This "study" is nonsense. The reason black men so often date women from other races is simply that women from other races are more attractive.

AlonzoMourning23
08-28-2006, 03:07 PM
Well, there are standards of beauty, and negroid features are simply and honestly not as attractive as white, asian or hispanic features.**A few years ago I was talking to a young black child, about 4 years old.**He reached up and touched my hair and said "when I grow up, I want to have hair like yours."**

Black women spend lots of money to get the "kinks" removed from their hair.**White women spend lots of money improving their looks as well.

This "study" is nonsense.**The reason black men so often date women from other races is simply that women from other races are more attractive.


Haven't seen the term negroid used since the last time I browsed stormfront.

I think desegration was the right thing but obviously it wasn't segration of schools that caused the negativity of black self-image.

Well, there are probably multiple causes. But this also brings up the fact that these beliefs go back well into childhood, at a time when many parents think their kids are colorblind. The behavior of the society around them, towards them, effects their image, academic performance, and behavior (it alluded to that in the second one, there was a study that deal primarily with behavior but I don't remember what it was called). And, considering these influences never stop (blacks are less attractive, less intelligent, more violent etc.) they can, and likely do, have long term effects. Though, as with almost everything, there's rarely one simple answer.

dsanthony
08-28-2006, 03:43 PM
Hello Lab: I see your poorly chosen moderator is still using his inquistion techniques to identify racists. He is on a PC witch hunt and you should not enable his behavior.

But just so YOU do not confuse his race-baiting with fact, here is a link and clip from the most PC of all sources, PBS:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Xom3hYiVCeoJ:www.pbs.org/saf/1203/teaching/teachPDF2.pdf+races+negroid+mongoloid+forensic&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=29

Caucasoid male(2.42) (tibia length in centimeters) + 81.93
Caucasoid female (2.90) (tibia length in centimeters) + 61.53
Negroid male (2.19)(tibia length in centimeters) + 85.36
Negroid female (2.45) (tibia length in centimeters) + 72.56
Mongoloid male(2.39) (tibia length in centimeters) + 81.45
Mongoloid femalenot available

To quote from the Manchurian Candidate: There are those who might think zo is a clown and a buffoon. I do not. His thought police tactics are dangerous. On the internet they are clownish. In the real world, his tactics will lead to purges and witch/racist trials.

Labrocca
08-28-2006, 08:59 PM
Well, there are standards of beauty, and negroid features are simply and honestly not as attractive as white, asian or hispanic features.


I can't disagree more with that statement. Have you ever been with a black woman...black skin is VERY soft and smooth. When blacks age they don't wrinkle up like white women do. I am not a fan of asian women myself. Also do you count a bubble butt that is common in black women a negroid feature?

To quote a famous rapper "I like big butts and I cannot lie."

Also black women often have bigger lips...that is VERY sensual.

White women...no ass, small lips, get fat at age 25 or after a child, and wrinkle up too.

If your own tastes are that blacks aren't attractive I can respect that. If you think that blacks shouldn't be attractive to anyone...that's just wrong. Maybe it's time you dated a black woman before you made judgements about their beauty.

dsanthony
08-28-2006, 09:12 PM
There is a reason Halle Berry is considered a beauty among black women... 3 of her 4 grandparents were white. You have your personal preferences, but for 9 out of 10 men of any race, the average white woman (or asian or hispanic) is more attractive than the average black.

It's just a fact.

Who I've fucked or dated is none of your goddamn business.

Labrocca
08-28-2006, 09:38 PM
Who I've fucked or dated is none of your goddamn business.


No reason to get heated over it. It was just a suggestion. A bit touchy on the subject ehh...

And Berry would just be average looking if she didn't have that black flavor in her. What about Tyra Banks? As for your 9 out of 10 statistic...where do you get that from? Most guys I know love asians which imho look nothing like caucasian chicks.

This is really a dumb argument about beauty as it's purely subjective. Alanzo's whole point is made by this test. It's stupid that 80% of black girls at that young an age are told being white is prettier. 9 out of 10 people are just convincing them it's true...it's a shitty thing to do to a person. I bet if 9 out 10 people told you at the age of 4 you were a dumb shit you would believe it too. Every child should be told they are beautiful, smart, and have a bright future. I got 4 kids and my children are thoroughly convinced they are the best of the best.

dsanthony
08-28-2006, 10:31 PM
Yes beauty is subjective. But, if you study psychology, you know that there are features which cross cultures and borders and are recognized as beautiful. Symmetry and, for women, petiteness of facial features, for example.

I did not say there were no beautiful black women. You're either a poor reader, or more likely were reading what you wanted to read.

Cobra
08-28-2006, 10:49 PM
Well since we’re on this suggest I prefer white females but blacks can be just as beautiful to me, just depends on the person and how their done up but then again my idea of beauty in a woman is probably totally different from most all ya'lls.

My idea of beauty, lets see in shape/hard body/not petite or weak looking, sharp facial features, and short cropped and funky hairstyles black or white hair both doesn’t matter/dyed funky to. Tatoos and piercing are hot as well, either race but I guess most of those things aren't really body types and can be fixed for either race. So why didn't the normal psychology that all culture share when it come to female body facial types work on me.

As for blacks, they have some differences but are not inherently less beautiful, just depends on what you like. It's just one of those stupid social things, more Caucasian is better in our society for reasons that go way back and are like I said stupid.

Labrocca
08-28-2006, 11:11 PM
petiteness of facial features



Nope...because I believe "bedroom eyes" are considered standard beautiful features and I believe blacks and hispanics have that feature over caucasian any day.

I would like to see you dig up some evidence or studies to back up some of your arguments dsanthony.**So far I haven't found anything on the subject.

I have just found this poll with over 1200 votes so far.

http://www.misterpoll.com/results.mpl?id=4139395199

Doesn't seem to jibe with your opinions on the matter dsanthonly.

dsanthony
08-28-2006, 11:15 PM
visit some porn sites and compare the numbers of photos of white, asian, hispanic and black women. that would be a good start.

Labrocca
08-28-2006, 11:25 PM
A) more white chicks are in pr0n (but more black chicks with azz are in music videos)

B) I don't visit white chick pr0n sites very often...I prefer (Edited for privacy).

C) white men prefer white woman probably more often than not

Still...I wanted you to back up some of your arguments with a study or statistics...guess you can't find any either.**I bet if I keep on diggin though I would find more to support my arguement.**btw...I did find one site about beauty and race that was in agreement with you. It was a racist white power site btw which I simply won't link to.


Oh..and just to clarify my own personal opinion on the cream of the crop. BRAZILIANS...omg those chicks are hot and by the goddamn dozen too.

dsanthony
08-28-2006, 11:55 PM
actually, white men prefer asian women.

compare how many white/asian/hispanic men marry or date black women. Now compare how many black men date or marry asian/white/hispanic women.

go talk to people.

Look at some black women. Negroid features are not that attractive. There are some attractive and even beautiful black women, but on average they are less attractive than other races. As Celie says in The Color Purple... "i may be poor, i may be black, i may even be ugly... but i'm here."

As I said, my personal preference is for Japanese and Asian girls. Hispanics are hot too.

Mayberry
08-29-2006, 02:45 AM
Oh..and just to clarify my own personal opinion on the cream of the crop. BRAZILIANS...omg those chicks are hot and by the goddamn dozen too.

Yeah, they're good, but Puerto Rico had more hotties per square foot than any place I've ever been. (though I've heard Thailand is pretty hard to beat)

lily
08-29-2006, 02:56 AM
I blame the media for that.**My wife perms her hair...I asked her to let it go natural but she refuses to look "nappy". I think it's odd a person doesn't want to look how they really are.**I think a well kept afro looks rather good...

Labrocca.........that's not a black or white issue.....that's a woman's issue. NO woman is happy with the way her hair is......we all want what we don't have! Look at the amout of hair products on the market.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I did find the doll test rather interesting. I would have liked to know what kind of dolls they used. After working 15+ years at the only Detroit** TRU, I think I know a bit about dolls and who buys what. Black baby dolls fly off the shelf, on the other hand White blond**Barbies are the biggest seller.

As for the second test. Any parent knows that if you tell your child that they are the smartest kid in the world and support them, they will think they are. If you constantly tell them they are a failure, they will live up to that. Unfortunately........some teachers don't feel the same.

Rider
08-31-2006, 07:11 PM
Geez- I can't believe that through all of this no one has mentioned a woman's attitude and demeanor. A woman with dignity and pride has something that enhances all of her features, no? I don't think that the way a woman looks is nearly as important and the way she looks at you.

dsanthony
08-31-2006, 07:20 PM
I agree. I have dated a couple black women and it's the culture and personality of most of them that turns me off more than their appearance.

rodeojones903
08-31-2006, 07:45 PM
One thing is for certain, FUGLY does not discriminate. :D

Labrocca
08-31-2006, 08:16 PM
I agree.**I have dated a couple black women and it's the culture and personality of most of them that turns me off more than their appearance.


SHOCKER!

hehe...I have dated pretty much everything. My Jamaican wife is great. I dated a couple ghetto chicks too but they weren't that awesome. I dated a fine ass black cheerleader in high school for a bit...she was crazy hot. Asians are pretty much the only type of girls I haven't really gotten into. I know a lot of guys dig asians (especially Japanese) but for me their look is only so-so. You take any 19 yr old and put her in a school girl outfit and she is hot. Asians need more ass imho....

dsanthony
08-31-2006, 08:49 PM
No, it's not a shocker. If you hadn't posed the question earlier as a "test" of some kind, I'd have answered. But, as I said, the average black woman is less attractive than the average white, asian or hispanic woman.

lily
08-31-2006, 11:49 PM
Geez- I can't believe that through all of this no one has mentioned a woman's attitude and demeanor. A woman with dignity and pride has something that enhances all of her features, no? I don't think that the way a woman looks is nearly as important and the way she looks at you.


Good point!

AlonzoMourning23
09-01-2006, 12:05 AM
Geez- I can't believe that through all of this no one has mentioned a woman's attitude and demeanor. A woman with dignity and pride has something that enhances all of her features, no? I don't think that the way a woman looks is nearly as important and the way she looks at you.

Ya, I think there's some of that going on with Coulter. Many conservatives think she's hot, yet I honestly don't even like looking at my tv screen when she's on. She's just disgusting. She's not my type to begin with, but the level of physical disgust seems to be from what I think of her in other areas.

lily
09-01-2006, 12:27 AM
You're right, Alonzo. She is a good looking woman......some would even call her handsome......but when she opens her mouth and vile spews forth.........

Cobra
09-01-2006, 12:32 AM
Ann Coulter, kinda hot kinda not. Her vile is entertaining if you’re not a person that would take it seriously or to heart.

Back to the blacks, I don’t really think black woman are normally uglier than white, Hispanic, or Asian woman and Asian woman aren’t hot but that’s just to me. All in what you like is what I think on this whole beauty issue.

dsanthony
09-01-2006, 01:05 AM
Well, the free market decides. Visit some porn sites. Compare the number of asian, hispanic and white photos to those of blacks. That should be all you need to know. Or, look at the number of black men who marry non-black women, vs. the number of non-black men who marry black women. Another clue.

lily
09-01-2006, 01:11 AM
Oh just this once I have to reply, I've read enough of your "insight".

1. You seem to spend quite a lot of time at porn sights. It's the second time you've mentioned them.

2. Could it be that there are less Black women on porn sites, because a) they don't care for porn, or b) they respect their bodies more?

3. You've been called on your so called "stats" more than once. How about some links to back them up.

4. Normal people don't choose the woman of their dreams from porn star standards.

Carry on.

This is a test. This is only a test. If this were an actualy emergency.......

Labrocca
09-01-2006, 08:25 AM
No, it's not a shocker.**If you hadn't posed the question earlier as a "test" of some kind, I'd have answered.**But, as I said, the average black woman is less attractive than the average white, asian or hispanic woman.


I wasn't 'testing' you. I just made the assumption that you didn't date woman you thought were ugly. I guess I was wrong...that's what happens when you assume. I am never offended by others desires for women. You can dislike black women's looks all you want. I just think before you say the wine is bad you should give it a taste that's all. If you tasted...more power to you bro. Imho it was a weird thing for you to be offended at.

Drocket
09-01-2006, 09:54 AM
I really don't understand how anyone can find Coulter attractive. It has nothing to do with her attitude (though even if she were the most beautiful person on earth on the outside, she's still be an evil, black-hearted harpy on the inside) - its that she looks like a walking skeleton. Her skin is stretched paper-thin over her bones. I really don't think there's any doubt that she has some sort of eating disorder. If she got over that, MAYBE she would be reasonably attractive, but as it stands now, she's more creepy than anything.

dsanthony
09-01-2006, 01:36 PM
Lily, either be a man and address me, or be a coward and don't. Don't take pot shots then hide when I respond. I have no respect for you as it is, and don't care if you write me or not. But if you do, have the balls to stand behind your words.

Why am I bothering? You're pathetic and wouldn't understand honor or standing behind your words.

Cobra
09-01-2006, 01:54 PM
Why am I bothering?**You're pathetic and wouldn't understand honor or standing behind your words.If I was her I'd be thinking the same thing about you.

Lily isn't a man either I don't think.

dsanthony
09-01-2006, 02:32 PM
No respect intended cobra, but bite me. Don't immerse yourself in a conversation that doesn't concern you.. and don't interrupt your betters.

lily
09-01-2006, 03:29 PM
Lily, either be a man and address me, or be a coward and don't.**Don't take pot shots then hide when I respond.**I have no respect for you as it is, and don't care if you write me or not.**But if you do, have the balls to stand behind your words.

Why am I bothering?**You're pathetic and wouldn't understand honor or standing behind your words.


Just had to take the time, before I left town to read your response, dsanthony.

So immature. Insult me, instead of responding to the questions. Did I hit a sore spot? You speak of having balls and standing behind your words. So respond. I freely admit I have no balls, being a woman and all. **I am so upset that your childish remarks just might ruin my long weekend up North.........if I took them seriously.

I ignore you because of your racial remarks and you never let me down. When an adult has finally had enough, they break down and try and figure out why people respond the way they do and again try dialouge.

You want a response........then answer my questions.

dsanthony
09-01-2006, 03:45 PM
Lily, as usual you act immaturely, then attack anyone who calls you on it. You said you were not going to respond to my posts. Fine, don't. I care little for your opinion. But don't take snipe shots and then hide behind "I'm ignoring you".

If you're going to respond to my posts, do it like a man. If you have decided to take back the "racist" charge you made against me, fine.

I don't care either way. But if you're going to act like the coward you are, I'll call you on it.

You are pathetic. Answer the question now. Are you "ignoring" me or not? If you are, then ignore me. If you're not, then I will respond to your childish posts.

Cobra
09-01-2006, 07:03 PM
Don't immerse yourself in a conversation that doesn't concern you.. and don't interrupt your betters.

Don't bring your shit onto the open forum if you don't want it to be commented on then and as for you being my better, not even close.

dsanthony
09-01-2006, 11:27 PM
I am your superior in so many ways, I couldn't begin to count them.

Labrocca
09-02-2006, 12:03 AM
I am your superior in so many ways, I couldn't begin to count them.**


That has to be the funniest post I have ever read here. It's so full of arrogance that it's laughable. It really defines your character. Now we all understand the great dsanthony...everyone bow before this superior person.


btw...you just earned a warning for calling her pathetic. I consider that a blatant person attack. Seriously relax and have a beer. Some people get bent way too easy.

dsanthony
09-02-2006, 12:07 AM
Again, she calls me a racist and nothing. You are also pathetic, she is not fit to be a moderator, and you abuse your power as "owner" regularly.

If she wishes me to respond, she can officially take back her intention to "ignore" me.

Lab, I am your superior as well, intellectually and morally.

Cobra
09-02-2006, 12:28 AM
Bullshit Disanthony, your one piece of work dude.

dsanthony
09-02-2006, 12:43 AM
Calling me names in no way affects the truth. I suggest you move on. You show a lack of vocabulary right out of the starting gate. If that's the most eloquest rebuttal you can make, you merely prove my point.

Argue the issues and I'll dissect your argument.

Cobra
09-02-2006, 12:51 AM
Sorry don't waste time with eloquent rebuttals man, I say what I think and it doesn't require any pretty words. You get the point and that's it but for another non-eloquent rebuttal how bout you are about full of yourself. Eloquest isn’t even a real word.

and I'm still waiting for your response on this issue, Lily replied and I can repeat about the same thing if you like, but those are the points I would have made if I had posted first.

dsanthony
09-02-2006, 12:56 AM
It's not simple arrogance if I'm correct. Anyway, you're being tiresome. If you have an argument to pursue, please do so. If you merely want to rant, oh well..

I have no plans to respond to Lily (or you if you parrot her), and I've explained why.

Cobra
09-02-2006, 01:03 AM
If you merely want to rant, oh well..
Oh well then, stating blacks are uglier than every other race is not fact, using porn as your example is lame, and who started this and got us off subject with his childishness again.

dsanthony
09-02-2006, 01:36 AM
If it's my "opinion", it's apparently shared by the majority of men in general, and a very large number of black men as well.

But, as usual, you're wrong, Zo began this thread with the usual whine that "racism" is the cause of all problems in the black community. I just called the lib lie.

Labrocca
09-02-2006, 04:31 AM
Again, she calls me a racist and nothing.**You are also pathetic, she is not fit to be a moderator, and you abuse your power as "owner" regularly.

If she wishes me to respond, she can officially take back her intention to "ignore" me.

Lab, I am your superior as well, intellectually and morally.


Sorry but to quote you..."that's none of your business"...on Lily being a moderator here or how I chastise my mods.**I don't believe my slight warning to you is this great "abuse of power" you make it out to be.**Now if I banned you for no good reason that might be abuse..maybe.**And dsanthony...sure you are my intellectual and moral superior. Big deal.**If that's what you need to believe in order to feel good about yourself go right ahead.**However this superiority you have over me doesn't change a few facts.**I own these forums and the rules I have created need to be followed.

At this point I think you are just flame baiting people.**How about I give you one last chance to cool off...otherwise I will show you an abuse of power.**I offer a lot of leeway on the rules here and try to make the forums a place for people to discuss yet be civil.**If you don't want to be civil you won't be welcome here.

Enjoy.

If it's my "opinion", it's apparently shared by the majority of men in general, and a very large number of black men as well.

You have yet to offer even 1 piece of evidence to support this claim of the majority of men prefer white women. I think your opinion is pure bullshit with no basis.

dsanthony
09-02-2006, 02:17 PM
I am not flaming. As usual, you charge the person who is defending himself against attacks--mainly because you're one of the attackers.

I've given all the proof I need to give. To recap (not that you'll actually think about them): 1. Look at the number of black men who date/marry non-black women. 2. Look at the few number of non-black men who date/marry black women. 3. Look at the "black" beauty symbols in our culture and count how many are half or 3/4 white. 4. Visit any strip club or porn website. Here is where people pay for "beauty". Count the number of blacks vs. other races.

All valid points.

AlonzoMourning23
09-02-2006, 07:57 PM
You are pathetic.**Answer the question now.**Are you "ignoring" me or not?**If you are, then ignore me.**If you're not, then I will respond to your childish posts.


If I'm not mistaken, you continued responding to my posts despite your repeated claims that you were going to ignore me.

dsanthony
09-02-2006, 08:03 PM
You're mistaken, as usual. I have been ignoring your posts. But, when you use the children of Republican politicians in a disgusting attack, I did call you on it. I didn't smirk or launch into an interrogation, demanding you respond while I called you a Stalinist, however.

Now that I have answered your question, I will begin ignoring you again.

Labrocca
09-02-2006, 09:31 PM
I've given all the proof I need to give.**To recap (not that you'll actually think about them):**1.**Look at the number of black men who date/marry non-black women.**2.**Look at the few number of non-black men who date/marry black women.**3.**Look at the "black" beauty symbols in our culture and count how many are half or 3/4 white.**4.**Visit any strip club or porn website.**Here is where people pay for "beauty".**Count the number of blacks vs. other races.

All valid points.


Not proof...I have only found 1 small mention of a 1990 statistics about interracial marriage. It doesn't seem that the census bureau tracks this information currently. Anyways it did say that black men and white woman were more common (5 times) than white men and black women. That's over 15 years ago...and I wonder what the true stats are today. It said that interracial marriage was on the rise especially among hispanics. Blacks are still in the minority so it would make sense that they would be in the minority when it comes to exposure in the media. I been to strip clubs where the MAJORITY of women were black. Often when I go down to the strip I see more black woman as cocktail waitresses than whites. Also I can only recall seeing 1...ONE white chick as a go-go dancer but I have seen at least 20 black women. Go to the Rio, Mandalay Bay, or even the Bellagio and hit a club...see how many hot black chicks there are shakin their moneymakers.

And imho a lot of white guys don't have the balls to ask out black women. They are intimidated.

You still offer no true proof only your pure opinion.

dsanthony
09-02-2006, 09:36 PM
You do not know the meaning of the word proof, and unfortunately will only accept some scientific study as proof of anything. Oh well. But don't think that the proof I listed is invalid because a sociology prof did not set up a double blind study. The proof stands, regardless of your inability to engage or refute it.

Labrocca
09-02-2006, 09:55 PM
Proof is not conjecture.

http://www.answers.com/proof&r=67 (let me know which of those meanings you have used for your definition)

I have full ability to engage and refute your statements. As a matter of fact if you had the ability to comprehend you would see in my last post I already did so.

I don't accept your argument mostly because it's not compelling even in the slightest. You didn't offer proof...you offered your observations.

dsanthony...you just think anyone that disagrees with your OPINION is wrong, unintelligent, and your inferior. Which is really funny to me. SInce that's exactly how I see you. A tree that can't bend with the wind breaks. I wonder really about your maturity level sometimes.

dsanthony
09-02-2006, 11:06 PM
yawn... you're emotionally involved in this debate, I see.

Yes, I offered observations. Observations are proof. You have not refuted my observations because you have the same ones. Walk down the strip. You will see at least a dozen black men with white, hispanic or asian woman. I'd be very surprised if you saw a single black woman with a non-black man.

Observations are proof. You can't deny the observations I made. A more intelligent correspondent might have refuted them more efficiently, however. The argument that "white men are afraid of black women" is of course a crock, and merely a way to bolster your own self-image for marrying a black woman.

A better argument would have been that many black women are racist and will not go out with white, asian or hispanic men. Again beginning with the OBSERVATION that more black men date non-blacks than vice versa, there are many conclusions that might be drawn. If you were up to the challenge it might have been a good debate.

You should study forensics and logic.

Labrocca
09-02-2006, 11:22 PM
You could be right about bolstering my self image. Could you be doing the exact same thing? I am sure you will deny this greatly as you don't seem to have the ability to self-reflect and admit any wrong on your part. I have no problem admitting my own errors and mistakes and have done so repeatedly on this site.

Also since I am in an interracial marriage I do believe I notice more often couples that are similar. I have met many couples where the man was white and the woman was black right here in Vegas.

I just think your whole argument is based on an opinion and while I can't say your opinion is wrong..I can still call it your opinion. You call it proof which is just innacurate. You have not offered even 1 valid link beyond this site with ANY information regarding your claims.

I am not getting emotionally involved in this thread since A) I don't know you personally and B) your opinions mean very little to me. My job as site owner is to spark debate, participate in discussions, and to make sure the rules are followed. Debate can easily get heated but I normally have the ability to step back and chill out. It's not like you are in my face screaming. I can very easily avoid a thread. IMHO you are too emotionally involved otherwise you wouldn't be flaming members so often. Really that doesn't help your argument stooping to that level. If you want to have a different opinion than me (or anyone) that's legit and I can respect that. But personally attacking peoples character to belittle them doesn't bode well with me and I have created rules against it.

Bottom line...participate here as other members do and stay away from the name calling. Attack the argument not the person.

dsanthony
09-03-2006, 12:30 AM
Proof is not conjecture.

http://www.answers.com/proof&r=67**(let me know which of those meanings you have used for your definition)

I have full ability to engage and refute your statements.**As a matter of fact if you had the ability to comprehend you would see in my last post I already did so.

I don't accept your argument mostly because it's not compelling even in the slightest. You didn't offer proof...you offered your observations.

dsanthony...you just think anyone that disagrees with your OPINION is wrong, unintelligent, and your inferior.**Which is really funny to me.**SInce that's exactly how I see you.**A tree that can't bend with the wind breaks.**I wonder really about your maturity level sometimes.**


Again, you abuse your role as "owner". If you're going to take shots at me, then don't whinewhen i shoot back.

Labrocca
09-03-2006, 05:34 AM
Yeah...whatever you say bro. Great that you can't argue your position and instead you resort to personal attacks.

Burp...

I am locking this topic since it's gone off-topic (consider it an abuse of power).