Why conservatives hate Massachusetts.

[Troubadour]

Its culture spawned their most hated enemy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Us_flag_large_Betsy_Ross.png/800px-Us_flag_large_Betsy_Ross.png

[Elrathin]

What are you trying to say Troubador? Can you actual explain your post instead of just giving a picture?

[jafar00]

I think we are supposed to guess ;)

[PostmodernProphet]

ah, pictures to explain why conservatives hate Massachusetts....

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2006/0604/senatorkennedy0424.jpg

http://peacecorpsonline.org/messages/jpeg/kerryaa.jpg

http://ap.grolier.com/images/cache/018/pl525.jpg

I can't imagine why we would hate Massachusetts.....so many good things have come out of Massachusetts.....

[Wndrtch]

ah, pictures to explain why conservatives hate Massachusetts....

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2006/0604/senatorkennedy0424.jpg

http://peacecorpsonline.org/messages/jpeg/kerryaa.jpg

http://ap.grolier.com/images/cache/018/pl525.jpg

I can't imagine why we would hate Massachusetts.....so many good things have come out of Massachusetts.....


That was the wrong picture to use for "the Duke".

Should have been this:

http://www.brianharer.com/cover_pics/Dukakis_tank-1.jpg

That's on mean fighting eye-brow.

[bishop]

oh yeah.. to hell with MA. while we're at it, screw these people whose ideals "conservatives" work hard to abolish... true enemies of the "conservatives".. forgive me for not posting their pictures.



"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution."

-john adams


“Medicaid’s a state issue. … She doesn’t understand the difference between state policy and federal policy,”

-john hancock


"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security."

-benjamin franklin

[brien]

A thoughtful post there bishop...Only people who don't know Massachusetts would shove it down to its most common denominator.

[PostmodernProphet]

“Medicaid’s a state issue. … She doesn’t understand the difference between state policy and federal policy,”

-john hancock

go figure....I didn't even know they had taken up Medicaid in the 1700s.......

[bishop]

admittedly, it seemed a bit odd to me as well. here's the source:

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/medicaid-s-a-state-issue-she-doesn-t-understand/909714.html

anyways, here are more people of massachusetts whose positive impact on this country has stood the test of time.

samuel adams, susan b. anthony, f. lee bailey, e.e. cummings, emily dickinson, ralph waldo emerson, nathaniel hawthrone, edgar allan poe, paul revere, theodore geisel, henry david thoreau, eli whitney...


this has to be by far the stupidest and most immature thread i've ever encountered here. kudos to the "conservatives".

[PostmodernProphet]

here's the source

I recommend you not take it seriously.....

[bishop]

don't let that one little tree prevent you from viewing the forest. ;)

[4Reaganomics]

Conservative hate what Mass. has become, not its origins

[Alonzo]

Conservative hate what Mass. has become, not its origins


Ya, conservatives hate that massachusetts is a tolerant, well educated and prosperous state.

If only we were more like Alabama or Mississippi, then they'd love us!

[bishop]

indeed. the south is what us northeasterners truly envy.

[apdst]

Ya, conservatives hate that massachusetts is a tolerant, well educated and prosperous state. that allows sex offenders to serve probabtion.

the south is what us northeasterners truly envy.

Yeah, we know. Ya'll can't cook worth fuck, up there and ya ain't got crawfish. That alone is enough to hate New England.

[Alonzo]

Yeah, we know. Ya'll can't cook worth f_ck, up there and ya ain't got crawfish. That alone is enough to hate New England.

I haven't spent a lot of time in the south, but my culinary experience in New Orleans didn't impress me, and Arizona is an absolute culinary nightmare, especially in Phoenix. Oh god was the food there horrible.

And we have crawfish, but just like Possum it's one of the things we've, thankfully, been spared.

Ya, conservatives hate that massachusetts is a tolerant, well educated and prosperous state. that allows sex offenders to serve probabtion.

Uhh...... practically all states allow sex offenders to get out on probation.

[apdst]

but my culinary experience in New Orleans didn't impress me

Either you ate at all the wrong places, or you have NO taste.

[Alonzo]

Cutting up a turtle and putting it in soup isn't what I'd consider the height of quality cuisine.

Besides, it's not really designed for vegetarians.

[apdst]

Cutting up a turtle and putting it in soup isn't what I'd consider the height of quality cuisine.

That's it? Turtle soup? That's the extent of your culinary experience in Louisiana?

[Alonzo]

No, actually I prevented the person I was with from ordering it because I couldn't stand to be near a dead turtle. I'm a vegetarian but I understand things like steak, pork etc. I never say a word and never, outside of that one time, try to force my diet on others. But, at the same time, some things I just can't see as food, and considering I have a pet turtle I simply would not have an appetite if I had to sit across from a dead turtle. Luckily those odd meats aren't really sold up here.

But, as I said, I'm a vegetarian. I've never liked cajun food to begin with, and my diet has never revolved around the common american staple foods like subs, steak and potatoes, hamburgers etc.

[apdst]

No read beans and rice? No rice dressing?

I guess you have no taste.

[Alonzo]

No read beans and rice? No rice dressing?

I guess you have no taste.


Red beans and rice seems rather plain and ordinary. And I've never heard of rice dressing.

Good vegetarian and vegan food is more than just "hold the meat".

[apdst]

Red beans and rice seems rather plain and ordinary. And I've never heard of rice dressing.

In other words, your actual culanary experience didn't amount shit. And, no, it's not a question, it a statement of fact.

[Go Fish]

Its culture spawned their most hated enemy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Us_flag_large_Betsy_Ross.png/800px-Us_flag_large_Betsy_Ross.png


Troubador is clearly trying to insinuate that conservative values run counter to the ideals of our founding fathers. I don't know if Troubador is anti-gun or not, so I can't so much as hint that this is a slam against the current legal wrangling regarding the DC gun laws, but I have to follow my instincts.
That said, and after giving Troubador the benefit of the doubt, I think he should be reported for posting a bullshit anti_conservative waste of bandwidth.

[Alonzo]

And your suggestion would be? Obviously I'm not going to enjoy steak or shrimp, the lighter/healthier food was hard to find, I don't really like spicy food, and all the food I know I liked was average at best.

[apdst]

And your suggestion would be? Obviously I'm not going to enjoy steak or shrimp, the lighter/healthier food was hard to find, I don't really like spicy food, and all the food I know I liked was average at best.

You have zero taste. I reckon there's nothing we can do for you. Or, you ate at shit hole resturants. I dunno whatelse to tell ya'.

I've seen far more, "outta-towners", fall in love with Louisiana cuisine, than hate it.

Some British friends of mine and I hooked up in New Orleans two years ago, right in the middle of crawfish season. To this day, they are trying to figure out how to ship crawfish over to England so they can boil them.

[PostmodernProphet]

To this day, they are trying to figure out how to ship crawfish over to England so they can boil them.

/ugh......wouldn't interest me at all.....seems a lot like eating lobsters without tails......

[Alonzo]

And your suggestion would be? Obviously I'm not going to enjoy steak or shrimp, the lighter/healthier food was hard to find, I don't really like spicy food, and all the food I know I liked was average at best.

You have zero taste. I reckon there's nothing we can do for you. Or, you ate at sh1t hole resturants. I dunno whatelse to tell ya'.

I've seen far more, "outta-towners", fall in love with Louisiana cuisine, than hate it.

Some British friends of mine and I hooked up in New Orleans two years ago, right in the middle of crawfish season. To this day, they are trying to figure out how to ship crawfish over to England so they can boil them.


Umm.... you ranting on crawfish means you haven't actually comprehended my posts.

[bishop]

Yeah, we know. Ya'll can't cook worth f_ck, up there and ya ain't got crawfish. That alone is enough to hate New England.


sorry, i don't remember ever cooking for yall?

and, we don't normally have runty little crawfish up here in our grocery stores, although you can always get some at your local bait & tackle shop. our grocery stores are usually stocked with more quality products like lobster. do yall also eat some fried rat down dere?

[PostmodernProphet]

....do yall also eat some fried rat down dere?


good lord man, you don't fry rat, you stew it.....

[brien]

Cutting up a turtle and putting it in soup isn't what I'd consider the height of quality cuisine.

Now there is a stereo typical bias if I ever have seen one. If you never tried turtle soup, please don't knock it. Turtle soup has been served in the finest restaurants around the world. It is absolutely delicious, but it is like anything else, you have to be predisposed to try it. Of course veggie heads wouldn't like it. It is meat.

This regional cooking food fight is silly. Let's examine what is important here.

If you want to see the real difference between the Northeastern states and the southern states like North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida, etc, compare the population shift over the last 40 years. Why is the population and industry moving from the Northern states to North Carolina?

http://www.sb-d.com/issues/Winter2005/features/SouthTopsWallStreet.asp


The South Tops Wall Street

Why financial activities firms are making a beeline to southern states

By Jennifer LeClaire and Trisha Ostrowski

It was the last hurdle, the final frontier. As of 1996, the American South topped the Northeast, Midwest, and West in every Gross Regional Product category but one. The only category where the South did not outperform all other U.S. regions was the FIRE sector (finances, insurance, and real estate). Then in the year 2000, the South overtook the final category.

Once dominated by the Northeast, the South posted a FIRE gross regional product of more than $250 billion in 2000. That's $2 billion more than the Northeast's total.

A convoy to the South
Something is undoubtedly bringing folks from the North, East and West to the southern states. The U.S. Census Bureau reports an increase of nearly 15 million people in the south since 1990. That's 5 million more than western states and far and beyond any other region. Of the 100 fastest-growing counties with 10,000 or more residents, 63 are in the South
<
Observers note that the population shift has brought more affluent people to the Southeast. Perhaps that accounts for the healthy growth that Michael Kennedy, senior client partner in the Atlanta office of Korn/Ferry International, an executive recruitment firm, is seeing in the wealth management sector. "Financial services firms are placing more of an emphasis on building wealth management teams of professionals to tap into all the individual wealth that has migrated to or been created in the south," Kennedy says.

The South now leads the nation in financial activities employment.

Financial Activities Employment by Region (in thousands)

Northeast 1,811,000
Midwest 1,590,000
West 1,707,000
South 2,684,000

Source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics; 2002 figures

<

The work force
When it comes to education levels, the South is on course to surpass all other regions, according to Hollingsworth's research. In 2001, the national high school graduation rate was 84.1 percent. Now, less than two points behind is the South's high school graduation rate of 82.2 percent. The figure represents nearly a three-point gain on the national high school graduation average in 10 years.

Mirroring the increase in high school educational attainment in the South is the rise in the number of Southerners who hold college degrees of four years or more. The current U.S. average is 25.6 percent. The current average in the South of residents with four-year degrees or more is 23 percent, or a scant 2.6 percent difference from the U.S. average. This rise in college-educated Southerners has produced a large base of independent thinkers and innovators


And in this link we see the retired people heading south as well.:

http://www.observer.com/2007/lysandra-census-data

The Census estimates out last week showed double-digit percentage growth in the South and the West since 2000. But in the Northeast--and in the Midwest--population growth was paltry.

The population of the Northeastern United States increased only 2 percent from April 1, 2000 through July 1, 2007. In the Midwest, the increase was 3.1 percent. (In the U.S. entirely, it was 7.2 percent.)

We see in the above link that the retirees are also heading south as well. Personally, I see property taxes and the overall cost of living, pushing people out of the Northeast towards other areas of the nation that are more taxpayer friendly, so that people aren't forced to choose between heating their homes, paying their taxes and feeding themselves.

Also, this business of bashing the southern states as being uneducated and backwards may have been somewhat true over 40 years ago, but it certainly is a stereotype of the past. While I do find the Northeast loaded with elites who think they know better than anyone else how to run this country, and the lives of others, they do not have anything over the people of the south who are proving on an economic scale, the south is the more attractive place to live, work and raise a family.

[brien]

our grocery stores are usually stocked with more quality products like lobster.

Yes, but now only the wealthy can afford it at 12.99 per pound. The average lobster will cost the buyer about $20.00 for a 1.5 lbs of live crusteacean. A family of four costs $80 for a meal of only lobster?? Add the sides and we're talking almost $100 for "suppah" Not likely anymore, since it costs that to fill the family SUV. I have a feeling the "lobsta" pounds along the Maine coast are going to be hurting this summer. Not to mention there is a blight now in the LI sound taking its toll once again on the lobster population. This, all besides the cost of diesel fuel to harvest them, is now over $4.00 a gallon. I can't wait to see the price of lobsters in a month or so. I doubt we will see too many people feasting on these guys anytime soon this year.

Little crawfish are too much work for me to shell and suck out the meat from the head. However, give me turtle soup anyday of the week, along with Jambalya and File Gumbo, and I am just as happy as if I were spooning up onion soup grantinee with shrimp, clams, and scallops over fresh linguine. Oh yeah:thumbsup:

[Alonzo]

Now there is a stereo typical bias if I ever have seen one. If you never tried turtle soup, please don't knock it.

Umm........ what's your opinion on dog meat? Would you make such ridiculous statements if it were dogs head soup?

[Alonzo]

This regional cooking food fight is silly.

Considering it involves adding additional animals to the diet, therefore increasing the animals that suffer from humans in such a way, I would disagree. But all I said is that I don't like the food I've seen down south. When I want food I want japanese, thai, italian, vegan, chinese, greek, middle eastern etc. The south seems to have all those things, even if they're a bit harder to find due to the increase in food that I don't like, but I've found them to be of lower quality. The restaurants down south, particularly in Arizona, has far fewer vegetarian options. I can walk into every restaurant that I have even the remotest interest wherever I seem to go in the northest u.s. and southeast canada and find multiple items I can either order or order with only minor adjustments. In the south I seem to find I have to either significantly alter anything I order, or sometimes there's nothing to be altered. I went to a place in phoenix where I ordered french fries for dinner because EVERYTHING else was meat based, such as steak, hamburder etc., and no amount of adjustment would make it edible for me.

Even before I was vegetarian, I was never big into spicy foods, soul food, or basic american steak and potatoes kind of food.

But, if you notice in the original post, someone whined about the north not having crawfish (we do, just don't look for it at dinner), and I said that MY experience in the south, with regards to food, was not a good one. But I was attacked as having "no taste". The measure for "taste" was based around a few forms of cooking that I dislike, and he measure for taste seems based around eating animals. I never said the type of cooking itself is horrible, I said it was horrible for me.

The only place in the south I've ever found decent food is in Sedona, and that's because it's filled with rich hippies. There is actually quality vegetarian foods, and quality international dishes, in that city. It's nowhere near what you get in boston or toronto, but it's far, far better than phoenix or new orleans.


If you want to see the real difference between the Northeastern states and the southern states like North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida, etc, compare the population shift over the last 40 years. Why is the population and industry moving from the Northern states to North Carolina?

The north is colder, more expensive to live in, has higher minimum wages, fewer well paying jobs that don't require formal education, and, I believe, has a lower birth and rate. The lower rate of the largest immigrant group, hispanics, likely plays a role as well.

But I'm not sure what population has to do with any of this.

[Elrathin]

Umm........ what's your opinion on dog meat? Would you make such ridiculous statements if it were dogs head soup?


Dog is actually too gamy of a meat for me. It is a delicacy in South Korea as they have dog farms there, but I never liked it myself.

[brien]

Umm........ what's your opinion on dog meat?

I have no real opinion since I don't dine on it. But since it is my understanding that some people do, as in the Vietnamese, I don't knock it. It's just not in my diet. I am certain if I was starving, and there was nothing else, I would shoot the first dog I saw and eat it.

But I'm not sure what population has to do with any of this.

You failed to address the real points of my post. That is, the South is gaining in population in terms of migration from the Northeast to the Southeast due to more favorable economic conditions. This has noting to do with culture and everything to do with opportunity for a better lifestyle for many people.

The Northeast is losing population because of high taxes, high cost of living, and less favorable economic conditions. So if someone was trying to argue the Northeast was a better place to live over the Southeast, I would have to ask them on what basis they formed this opinion.

Furthermore, I was trying to show you how gastronmic concerns aside, the Northeast is no longer the desireable place to live as it once was 40 years ago. I tried to show you how the stereotypical argument that education in the South is somehow substandard to the Northeast is now a almost a myth. I think since you didn't address the salient aspects of my post, you either can't answer them, or simply choose to ignore those points.

Culture aside, the Southeast now seems a better place to live for many people than the Northeast, and the statisitcs seem to bear this out.

[bishop]

Now there is a stereo typical bias if I ever have seen one. If you never tried turtle soup, please don't knock it. Turtle soup has been served in the finest restaurants around the world. It is absolutely delicious, but it is like anything else, you have to be predisposed to try it. Of course veggie heads wouldn't like it. It is meat.

i'd try anything once.. even disguisting tentacle sashimi...

Yes, but now only the wealthy can afford it at 12.99 per pound. The average lobster will cost the buyer about $20.00 for a 1.5 lbs of live crusteacean.

they aren't always that expensive. last summer i was getting them for $5/pound. i don't eat them every day, but so that's most definitely an affordable price imo. some would consider me "wealthy" though.

Little crawfish are too much work for me to shell and suck out the meat from the head. However, give me turtle soup anyday of the week, along with Jambalya and File Gumbo, and I am just as happy as if I were spooning up onion soup grantinee with shrimp, clams, and scallops over fresh linguine.

i make my own jambalya.. actually, i make a lot of cajun styled food (along with eastern european and chinese). blackened catfish, moussaka and all that other stuff... twas in new orleans this past september at the royal sonest and had their jambalaya. theirs was damn good, maybe just a tad better than mine though (my #1 hobby aside from hockey and investing is cooking). they also made it like i do - with shrimp instead of crawfish.


heh, i guess this is one of those threads where it'd impossible to go off-topic - since there was never an actual topic to begin with.

[brien]

they aren't always that expensive. last summer i was getting them for $5/pound

You were lucky indeed. I am afraid this year we won't see anything near this price mainly due to fuel and supply. If you remember the blight a few years back in the LI Sound, it has been speculated that it is back again. Couple this with the cost of the harvest, and I am afraid we will see no less than $15 per lb. Bummer, indeed.

Just a short note. When I had a condo in the Bahamas, we used to take the boat out into 15' of water, to our lobster shelters. These shelters were merely covers under which the lobsters would hide during the day. We would dive down, lift the cover, and shoot them with a spear gun. Took as many as we wanted for the next few days. We didn't need a license or permission from anyone to harvest the ocean's bounty. So refreshing from US laws regulating everything from the toilets to taxes.

[apdst]

Little crawfish are too much work for me to shell and suck out the meat from the head.

seems a lot like eating lobsters without tails......

You boys have never actually eaten crwfish. Have you?

good lord man, you don't fry rat, you stew it.....

You either fry'em and make gravy, or put'em in gumbo.

Dog is actually too gamy of a meat for me.

I was surprised to find that wild taste in dog. I didn't mind, sense I grew up eating wild game.

[Alonzo]

Umm........ what's your opinion on dog meat?

I have no real opinion since I don't dine on it. But since it is my understanding that some people do, as in the Vietnamese, I don't knock it. It's just not in my diet. I am certain if I was starving, and there was nothing else, I would shoot the first dog I saw and eat it.

But I'm not sure what population has to do with any of this.

You failed to address the real points of my post. That is, the South is gaining in population in terms of migration from the Northeast to the Southeast due to more favorable economic conditions. This has noting to do with culture and everything to do with opportunity for a better lifestyle for many people.

The Northeast is losing population because of high taxes, high cost of living, and less favorable economic conditions. So if someone was trying to argue the Northeast was a better place to live over the Southeast, I would have to ask them on what basis they formed this opinion.

Furthermore, I was trying to show you how gastronmic concerns aside, the Northeast is no longer the desireable place to live as it once was 40 years ago. I tried to show you how the stereotypical argument that education in the South is somehow substandard to the Northeast is now a almost a myth. I think since you didn't address the salient aspects of my post, you either can't answer them, or simply choose to ignore those points.

Culture aside, the Southeast now seems a better place to live for many people than the Northeast, and the statisitcs seem to bear this out.


state education ranks: http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm (info used in ranking is here http://www.morganquitno.com/edfact06.htm#FACTORS)

poverty level (#1 having the most poverty) http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ranks/rank34.htm

persons with degrees: http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ranks/rank19.htm

infant mortality (#1 being the worst) http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ranks/rank17.htm

doctors per 100,000 people:
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ranks/rank18.htm

income per person:
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ranks/rank29.htm

health care:
http://www.webmd.com/news/20070613/how-states-rank-on-health-care

overall health of population:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0921974.html

All those heavily favor the northeast.

[Alonzo]

Umm........ what's your opinion on dog meat? Would you make such ridiculous statements if it were dogs head soup?


Dog is actually too gamy of a meat for me. It is a delicacy in South Korea as they have dog farms there, but I never liked it myself.


They do, but I think they also made it illegal. Enforcement is always tricky.

Personally I think they should outlaw it. I'd advocate outlawing using cows or pigs for meat too if I thought people would listen, but I know it's hopeless so I just advocate for better conditions and treatment prior to killing.

[apdst]

Outlaw food? That's just dumb.

[preservanation]

Outlaw food? That's just dumb.
It's easy to outlaw food when we have so much.
Niceties go out the window when the tables are turned...just ask the Dahmer party.

[Elrathin]

They do, but I think they also made it illegal. Enforcement is always tricky.

Personally I think they should outlaw it. I'd advocate outlawing using cows or pigs for meat too if I thought people would listen, but I know it's hopeless so I just advocate for better conditions and treatment prior to killing.


Not sure about it being illegal, but there is a dog farm behind the PLDC training for the Army in Korea so it either was made illegal since 2002 or they REALLY turn their back on it hehehe.

There were also a few restaurants inside the Seoul area that served it as well.

[Elrathin]

Outlaw food? That's just dumb.


So you're ok with serving Roasted Bald Eagle?

[Alonzo]

It's been illegal for a while, but not well enforced:

August 17 is known as 'Malbok' in the Korean lunar calendar, the last of three annual 'dog days' when Koreans - mostly old men - eat lots of dog meat in the belief that it will boost virility.

The ban was imposed to deter bad press during the 1988 Olympics
Contrary to popular opinion, the sale and consumption of dog meat is illegal in South Korea.

The ban was introduced before the 1988 Seoul Olympics as a result of government fears that the country would suffer from bad publicity.

But for many, tradition is more important than sticking to the letter of the law and animal welfare groups say many dogs are destined to end up as part of a spicy dog stew.

Welfare groups say many will suffer a cruel death as pain is traditionally said to improve the flavour.

Statistics show that dog is the fourth most popular meat in South Korea after pork, beef and chicken.

There are said to be more than 6,000 restaurants across the country selling poshintang, or dog meat soup, getting through about 8,500 tons per year. Another 93,600 tons is used annually to produce a medical tonic called kaesoju.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/422338.stm

Outlaw food? That's just dumb.

Where do you draw the line? That's all it is. Chimp is illegal in most, if not all, countries in the world. Obviously enforcement varies but it's illegal. Dog is illegal in most. It all depends on which animals you deem worthy of protection.

[Mayberry]

So you're ok with serving Roasted Bald Eagle? It's delicious wrapped around a jalapeno and wrapped with bacon. :P

[apdst]

So you're ok with serving Roasted Bald Eagle?

I prefer spotted owl, but that's just me.

[Elrathin]

So you're ok with serving Roasted Bald Eagle? It's delicious wrapped around a jalapeno and wrapped with bacon. :P



So you're ok with serving Roasted Bald Eagle?

I prefer spotted owl, but that's just me.


Ok thanks for the laughs at least guys :)

[PostmodernProphet]

I prefer spotted owl, but that's just me.


everyone to his own tastes....

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/englishteastore_1995_31434872

[Troubadour]

Conservative hate what Mass. has become, not its origins


They hated it then, and they hate it now - for the exact same reason. Massachusetts: Bane of empires and slavers.

[Troubadour]

that allows sex offenders to serve probabtion.


Which could never, under any circumstances, possibly be appropriate? Massachusetts is part of America, not Saudi Texarabia.

[Troubadour]

Troubador is clearly trying to insinuate that conservative values run counter to the ideals of our founding fathers.


The ideals of the Founding itself, as clearly and unambiguously embodied in the Declaration of Independence and, subsequently, Constitution.


I don't know if Troubador is anti-gun or not


"Anti-gun" is like "anti-war" - to use it as a derogatory term is to reveal base immorality, whatever one's specific positions on the issues involved. All decent, remotely intelligent human beings detest weapons and their use, yet the fact that I recognize the vileness of guns doesn't mean I deny their necessity; nor does the latter mean I'm blind to the additional necessity of thoughtful regulation. How would I do this? A 100% profit tax on the sale of firearms and bullets - not a single gun taken from a single hand, yet the swamp is dried nonetheless. Let gun owners support a nonprofit manufacturer that doesn't actively promote the social ills its product allegedly addresses.


That said, and after giving Troubador the benefit of the doubt, I think he should be reported for posting a bullshit anti_conservative waste of bandwidth.


Very stirring defense of the right's American credentials, Go Fish: "He's speaking negatively of conservatism! I shall report this at once!"

[brien]

All those heavily favor the northeast.


Then why is the population shifiting from the Northeast to the Southeast as I showed you in the link? If everything is so great in the Northeast, people would stay put but the demographics show otherwise. You can put up all the links you want but the population shift says it all.

[Alonzo]

Then why is the population shifiting from the Northeast to the Southeast as I showed you in the link? If everything is so great in the Northeast, people would stay put but the demographics show otherwise. You can put up all the links you want but the population shift says it all.

Ummmm........ no it doesn't. If population increase meant everything then Africa is almost across the board a better place to live than Europe, as africa has a greater population increase.

But the south gets people because

The cost of living is higher: http://www.ded.mo.gov/researchandplanning/indicators/cost_of_living/index.stm (north of boston, where I live, you're looking at 250-400,000 for a house, and more than 1k a month for an apartment)

The south has a higher birth rate: http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?cat=2&ind=35

[Troubadour]

But the south gets people because the cost of living is higher [in the North]


Exactly. It's expensive because (weather notwithstanding) most people want to live in a state with good services, great schools, and a government that earns its pay. I've lost count of the horror stories of people who looked at nothing but cost of living, moved to the Deep Red, and had to beat a hasty, expensive retreat back to civilization when they found out why it's so cheap to live there. Of course they're careful not to report such movements in official statistics - if people flee within a year of moving into the state, it's not counted as a net migration.


The south has a higher birth rate


Bingo. Pitiful schools, little to no sex education, extreme religious resistance to family planning, and a culture of irresponsibility and weak impulse-control = high poverty and rapid population expansion. Mile upon mile of trailer parks housing federal minimum wage labor with no healthcare, sending their children to schools where they're taught that Jesus and Ben Franklin walked beside dinosaurs on the 6,000 year-old flat Earth.

[brien]

Ummmm........ no it doesn't. If population increase

Straw dog.. I referenced population shift from the Northeast to the Southeast, not a population increase.

[Alonzo]

Straw dog? That's a new way of putting it.

But it seems like your only evidence now is a disproportional increase in the souths population, which has been explained, at least in part, by the cost of living and the birth rate. We also shouldn't overlook the influx of Hispanic immigration either. But, really, if you're going to try to build an argument about the quality of life based on population, I don't think you'll find many who see that as convincing.

[brien]

I've lost count of the horror stories of people who looked at nothing but cost of living, moved to the Deep Red, and had to beat a hasty, expensive retreat back to civilization when they found out why it's so cheap to live there. Of course they're careful not to report such movements in official statistics - if people flee within a year of moving into the state, it's not counted as a net migration

Why don't you show us this in statistics instead of asking us to take your word for it. Prove it with statistics that people are moving south only to return north disillusioned with their move. The fact is there is a population shift that's been going on for years now that has people in the Northeast moving to the Southeast and I proved it in an earlier post with statistics. Where are your stats? Oh that right, you "lost count" and "they are careful not to report such movement in official statistics" :madlaugh:

Bingo. Pitiful schools, little to no sex education, extreme religious resistance to family planning, and a culture of irresponsibility and weak impulse-control = high poverty and rapid population expansion. Mile upon mile of trailer parks housing federal minimum wage labor with no healthcare, sending their children to schools where they're taught that Jesus and Ben Franklin walked beside dinosaurs on the 6,000 year-old flat Earth.

I never made references to culture as a factor in the population shift because it is a subjective viewpoint. That said, your observations are merely more stereotypical exteremism. There aren't pitiful schools in the Northeast cities like NYC Boston Philadelphia? No culture of irresponsibility in the Northeast cities??? No poverty in Northeast cities? No trailer parks in the Northeastern states?

Please....once again, your stereotypical cultural bias is only exceeded by your obvious intolerance for those who may differ with your view of the world. Because some people may have faith in creationism, you condemn them as ignorant because you can't tolerate their beliefs and know better than them, what they should believe in life. And because of this, you seem to be calling southerners ignorant. I'd say you should perhaps reconsider who is intolerant and narrow minded here.

I may not agree with the creationists, and Southern Baptists bible thumpers, but I respect them for their beliefs because it is not my place to tell them what to believe in. I have no more of a right to my beliefs than they do to theirs; something that seems to have gone right over your head here.

That said, I discounted culture in an earlier post, because all I was pointing out was the population shift that is happening from the Northeast to the Southeast, and I proved it through a link that shows the Southeast's economic dynamics are becomming more adept at supporting this population shift than are the dynamics of the Northeast.

I showed you in an earlier post how the education in the south has made excellent gains in recent years, and is within 2 % points of that in the Northeast on an overall basis. But no bother, we will just continue to make ignorant statements based upon stereotypes and consider that reality. :unreal:

[brien]

But it seems like your only evidence now is a disproportional increase in the souths population,

I laid out the evidence that shows a distinct population shift from the Northeast to the Southeast and based it upon the economic dynamics of the Southeast. I never said anything about population increase. I used the term population shift from the NE to the SE. I showed you in the link. I don't know how much more plain I can make it for you.

[Alonzo]

I showed you in an earlier post how the education in the south has made excellent gains in recent years, and is within 2 % points of that in the Northeast on an overall basis. But no bother, we will just continue to make ignorant statements based upon stereotypes and consider that reality. Unreal

Since you're talking about statistics and reality, I probably should take this time to explain the statistics you posted earlier:

Mirroring the increase in high school educational attainment in the South is the rise in the number of Southerners who hold college degrees of four years or more. The current U.S. average is 25.6 percent. The current average in the South of residents with four-year degrees or more is 23 percent, or a scant 2.6 percent difference from the U.S. average. This rise in college-educated Southerners has produced a large base of independent thinkers and innovators

The average for college educated residents in the south is 2.6 points lower than the NATIONAL AVERAGE. Not the average for the northeast.

[brien]

But, really, if you're going to try to build an argument about the quality of life based on population, I don't think you'll find many who see that as convincing.

I never made this argument. I provided statistics that proved the NE population is shifting to the SE based upon economic dynamics. I also considered the retiree flight as well. I provided the links for these considerations and specifically declined to consider culture because it is too subjective to consider here. This is why I called the food considerations silly. Please don't assign points of view to me that I never proposed or considered in the debate here.

[brien]

I showed you in an earlier post how the education in the south has made excellent gains in recent years, and is within 2 % points of that in the Northeast on an overall basis. But no bother, we will just continue to make ignorant statements based upon stereotypes and consider that reality. Unreal

Since you're talking about statistics and reality, I probably should take this time to explain the statistics you posted earlier:

Mirroring the increase in high school educational attainment in the South is the rise in the number of Southerners who hold college degrees of four years or more. The current U.S. average is 25.6 percent. The current average in the South of residents with four-year degrees or more is 23 percent, or a scant 2.6 percent difference from the U.S. average. This rise in college-educated Southerners has produced a large base of independent thinkers and innovators

The average for college educated residents in the south is 2.6 points lower than the NATIONAL AVERAGE. Not the average for the northeast.


So you are saying these statistics aren't relevant because they mirror the national average. The NE isn't part of the national average? All things being equal here, I don't see how you can discount them.

Have a safe and pleasant weekend. It's been fun....

[Alonzo]

Brien, I don't have statistics on elderly flight the the older people I know who have left the northeast largely do so due to weather. In fact you find many who spend the winter down south and the summer up north. A lot of the florida license plates you seen around here aren't tourists, they're people who live in both places.


You failed to address the real points of my post. That is, the South is gaining in population in terms of migration from the Northeast to the Southeast due to more favorable economic conditions. This has noting to do with culture and everything to do with opportunity for a better lifestyle for many people.

The Northeast is losing population because of high taxes, high cost of living, and less favorable economic conditions. So if someone was trying to argue the Northeast was a better place to live over the Southeast, I would have to ask them on what basis they formed this opinion.

Furthermore, I was trying to show you how gastronmic concerns aside, the Northeast is no longer the desireable place to live as it once was 40 years ago. I tried to show you how the stereotypical argument that education in the South is somehow substandard to the Northeast is now a almost a myth. I think since you didn't address the salient aspects of my post, you either can't answer them, or simply choose to ignore those points.

Culture aside, the Southeast now seems a better place to live for many people than the Northeast, and the statisitcs seem to bear this out.

Your argument is that the south can provide a better lifestyle for many people and this is driving the population shift. So quality of life is an argument you are making, or at least were.

Cost of living is a factor, I'm not denying that. But it's the other arguments you make, that south provides a better life overall, is where the disagreement is and where you fail to support your argument.

So you are saying these statistics aren't relevant because they mirror the national average. The NE isn't part of the national average? All things being equal here, I don't see how you can discount them.

So is the south. You're comparing a region that is probably the highest region in terms of % of population with a degree to the region that is probably the lowest, and then trying to argue that because the lower region is catching up to the average, not what is likely the highest region, but the average, that it is now almost on par with the region that probably has the highest %.

[justaguy]

our grocery stores are usually stocked with more quality products like lobster.

Yes, but now only the wealthy can afford it at 12.99 per pound. The average lobster will cost the buyer about $20.00 for a 1.5 lbs of live crusteacean. A family of four costs $80 for a meal of only lobster?? Add the sides and we're talking almost $100 for "suppah" Not likely anymore, since it costs that to fill the family SUV. I have a feeling the "lobsta" pounds along the Maine coast are going to be hurting this summer. Not to mention there is a blight now in the LI sound taking its toll once again on the lobster population. This, all besides the cost of diesel fuel to harvest them, is now over $4.00 a gallon. I can't wait to see the price of lobsters in a month or so. I doubt we will see too many people feasting on these guys anytime soon this year.

Little crawfish are too much work for me to shell and suck out the meat from the head. However, give me turtle soup anyday of the week, along with Jambalya and File Gumbo, and I am just as happy as if I were spooning up onion soup grantinee with shrimp, clams, and scallops over fresh linguine. Oh yeah:thumbsup:


#1. The only meat in a crawfish is in the tail, just like a mini lobster. The only thing in the head to suck out is the juice. They are tasty.

#2. The only time I have ever eaten turtle soup (as in real SEA turtle soup) was in Boston as a little kid at a pretty decent restaurant, and it was good, of course this was before they were on the endangered species act, might have even been before the act itself.