Response to zo's "black" story

[dsanthony]

Since zo has decided to hunt the internet for a case involving a minimum wage white bus driver who may or may not have treated black students unfairly, I've done the same to find a story about another group of black students. Hopefully, this will end the trading of stories.

This article leaves out the fact that one of the attackers, Payton, was the homecoming king of his high school class. He must have been angry about being outcast by the white folks, and decided to lash out..


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/390990p-331669c.html


Sex charges for teen trio

Arraignments in Bay Shore attack

BY MICHAEL WHITE
DAILY NEWS WRITER

Three teens who allegedly ambushed a young couple in Bay Shore, stripped the victims naked and took turns sodomizing the woman while the man was forced to watch at gunpoint will be arraigned today in Suffolk County Court, prosecutors said.
Terrance Terrell, 17, Douglas Payton, 17, and Reginald Dugue, 18, all Bay Shore High School students, were all arrested Feb. 2 and indicted on a slew of sex and robbery charges stemming from the Dec. 3 attack on South Saxon Ave., authorities said.

The men each face two charges of committing a criminal sexual act for forcible oral sex, a first-degree rape charge and five felony robbery charges, prosecutors said.

Each faces up to 170 years in prison if convicted.

"They roughed up the boyfriend before all of the sex acts," said Assistant District Attorney Kate Wagner. "They got him under control so he couldn't try to help her. And then he was forced to watch."

The male victim, 21, was pistol-whipped and "stomped" after the couple was pulled from his SUV about 1:30 a.m., Wagner said, adding that he and the woman, 23, were drinking coffee at a dead end overlooking the Great South Bay.

"It's a lovely area, right on the water," Wagner said. "They had grabbed two coffees at a 7-Eleven, and they were just sitting there with coffees. No booze. Nothing."

Both victims are life-long residents of the area, she said. They are not being identified because of the sex crimes.

Wagner gave this account of the events:

The suspects pulled into the dead end in Payton's car, behind the victims, then Payton flashed his brights into the car before the three masked men appeared, two tapping on the windows with guns.

The victims left the vehicle, were stripped "completely naked" and the woman was dragged into Payton's car and forced to perform a sex act on one of the men while Payton held a gun to the boyfriend's head outside.

She was then dragged to the tailgate of the victim's SUV, where she was raped by a second man and forced to perform a sex act on him. At that point, Payton spoke to the boyfriend, asking him if he had sex with his girlfriend that day.

"You should have. Watch this," Payton said, according to Wagner.

"Then he is forced to watch his girlfriend, on her knees, performing oral sex with a gun to her head," Wagner said.

After the ordeal, the couple was left rummaging for clothes and running for help, the prosecutor said.

Wagner said the three suspects gave detailed confessions that corroborated the two victims' accounts.

Payton did not partake in the sex acts, but by law is responsible because he aided the others, Wagner said.

Payton's mother and attorney, James Pascarella, declined to comment. Lawyers for Dugue and Terrell were not available for comment.

------

What does this say about the state of the black community?

[Alonzo]

Since zo has decided to hunt the internet for a case involving a minimum wage white bus driver who may or may not have treated black students unfairly, I've done the same to find a story about another group of black students. Hopefully, this will end the trading of stories.

Well, your's doesn't deal with racism, and is a different kind of story entirely.

But, in your opinion, people should take precautions to protect themselves from blacks. So, for example, isolating them is acceptable because they may be a danger to others?

[dsanthony]

It absolutely deals with race and racism. I could find hundreds of stories just like this for every one of your lame "bus driver" incidents. I can probably find a dozen surrounding black pro athletes.

Why are you afraid to look at the dysfunction in the black community, which idolizes violence?

[Alonzo]

Anthony, who was targetted due to their race?

But, again, is it your opinion that people should take precautions to protect themselves from blacks. So, for example, isolating them or avoiding them is acceptable because they may be a danger to others?

[dsanthony]

So, it matters to you if the victims were white? It shouldn't... but they probably were.

[bobbylien]

I don't get it anthony.. what are you trying to say here? If you are trying to condemn all black people for the actions of a few that is racist. In my opinion, neither blacks or whites are the problem. Its poor people, I would feel JUST as uncomfortable standing next to 3 poor white people as I would standing next to 3 poor blacks. My group in High School had a few blacks, they were normal. They played sports and got really high grades, good kids. Crime isnt a black and white issue, its a class issue.

[dsanthony]

Ok. Go write that same post in the Zo started about the bus driver.

You seem to be tracking my posts and attempting to "correct" me bl... maybe that's a misunderstanding. If you are, I don't appreciate it.

[Alonzo]

So, it matters to you if the victims were white?Â*Â*It shouldn't... but they probably were.Â*Â*


If you want to make a point about racism, then the race of the people matter. If there was no targetting due to someones race, then it's not an issue of race.

But, again, is it your opinion that people should take precautions to protect themselves from blacks. So, for example, isolating them or avoiding them is acceptable because they may be a danger to others?

[Labrocca]

I have been straight out attacked by blacks on more than 1 occassion simply because I was white. I have never attacked, witnessed, or even heard of an acquantance of mine doing such a thing to blacks or any race.

One time was rather uncool...this black guy was about 300 pounds and big mean guy. I was sitting on the train reading...totally minding my own business. He simply walked over to the seat across from me and said "you know I fucking hate white people...know what I mean"...of course I didn't know how to respond to that. Then about 5 seconds later he got up...and starting kicking the shit out of me. He was easily 3 times my size. I was only 19 at the time and rather skinny kid. He got me with at least 5-6 boots to my head. I was just trying to protect myself. He would have fuked me up worse had a train conductor not seen him and helped me. He was big enough to grab the guy and shove him off at the station on the next stop. If it weren't for him...I may have been hospitalized or worse. I had some bruises and the attack made me feel like shit. This was my first year in NYC and I was still pretty green. I looked too much like a victim. After that I carried weapons all the time..still do even.

That incident taught me a lot. There are straight out racist black fukers out there that want to kill whitey. There are also very good blacks that won't idly sit by when an injustice occurs. Basically I learned balance and to always be wary.

[T.J. Wolfe]

I've seen a group of white kids try to jump this black kid, the thing was they did it during football practice so basically the whole football team stuck up for him.

Labrocca told a story, so I wanted to tell one too.

[Labrocca]

I've seen a group of white kids try to jump this black kid, the thing was they did it during football practice so basically the whole football team stuck up for him.

Labrocca told a story, so I wanted to tell one too.


Yeah I am sure this is common...however one has to wonder which of the two stories happens more often? Blacks attacking whites or vice versa? According to statistics quoted in this thread it would appear that blacks attack whites more often? And as my personal experience tells me...race can easily be a motivation for the blacks.

[Nitrus]

Motivation or an excuse?

Sure, there lots of racists out there, who will happily charge down a member of the opposite race. There was this time at my school, where a white kid was minding his own business.. and this black kid came up to him.. and asked him "what do you think of the colour of our uniform?" (it was black), and the white kid said that the uniform was kind of dull and boring and the colour was annoying in the summer when it absorbed heat etc.. (fair point).

Then the black kid beat the shit into him, and when he got caught.. he said to the teacher "he was being racist", and the white kid got suspended. Hows that fair?

In that case, racism was used as an excuse to beat into someone... and they basically set that kid up.. some black kids use racism to scare people... and intimidate them.. this is where the issue of racism becomes a little complicated...

[dsanthony]

Watch some of the "black" movies out of Hollywood. The black roles dominate and intimidate white characters. It happens on the street everyday. When I was riding the bus, not a day went by when I did not see a black confront or harass a white person.

[Alonzo]

Yeah I am sure this is common...however one has to wonder which of the two stories happens more often? Blacks attacking whites or vice versa?Â*Â*According to statistics quoted in this thread it would appear that blacks attack whites more often?Â*Â*And as my personal experience tells me...race can easily be a motivation for the blacks.


But, according to the FBI's statistics (posted them in another thread, I think you saw them though I'm not sure) racially motivated crimes are significantly more common against blacks than whites.

You shouldn't confuse a normal attack with a racially motivated attack.

[Nitrus]

Watch some of the "black" movies out of Hollywood. The black roles dominate and intimidate white characters. It happens on the street everyday. When I was riding the bus, not a day went by when I did not see a black confront or harass a white person.


Sorry, but that seems very unlikely.

[dsanthony]

What seems to you means nothing to me. If you doubt my statement, that also means nothing to me.

[Nitrus]

Every day? Where do you live?

[dsanthony]

las vegas

[Nitrus]

Ok.. labrocca can you vouch for the high crime and regular racist attacks that anthony is claiming "happen every day"?

[dsanthony]

i'm not interested in minutae. Come back when you have something interesting to say.

[Labrocca]

las vegas


I didn't know that...or did I? What part of Vegas? PM me. I live out here too.


As for the thread topic. I believe dsanthony about black intimidating whites on public transportation. In NYC it happened VERY frequently. I am not sure about ZO's statistics but maybe they aren't accurate as often times whites may not scream racism to the cops. It seems almost silly at times to call blacks racists as if no one will believe you (as in this thread).

Often on the train black youths would sit with their legs all over and not move to allow others to sit on a crowded train. Often a black youth would come on with a radio and play hip hop or gangsta rap very loud and not give a damn that it was rude and even a transit violiation (ticketable offense). Black youths know they intimidate whites...and they abuse it. With the crime statistics the way the are with the majority of violent crime committed by blacks why mess with them. IMHO they are often just looking for trouble. I was just trying to get to work along with everyone else. I would just move to another car.

Was I being racist for assuming the black kid was dangerous? Maybe...more likely I was simply being prejudice against him and thinking of protecting myself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

I think it's important to note that racism is generally perceived as the oppression of another race. I don't believe dsanthony fits that bill.

[dsanthony]

Being able to assess danger is not racist. It is common sense. Let them scream "racist" all they want. If I see a black man on the street at night, I am much more aware of his actions than I would be of a white man, or even the dreaded "corporate warrior" the left is so afraid of.

[sbannon]

Gee whiz already, young punks on the bus or train are just that--young punks, and they come in all shapes, sizes and colors.

dsanthony, while you're watching the actions of a black man on the street some white man may be planning to blow up the building you work in or worse, eat you (McVeigh or Dahmer anyone?)--all while your Latino lover sharpens her scissors (Bobbitt?).

This is why I oppose racial profiling in law enforcement, or as is recently in vogue to propose; at airports. Not because it's racially based, but because it's just dumb. It limits your focus to the point of exclusion of very real and dangerous threats.

My city has several predominately black neighborhoods. Some are high crime areas and some aren't. Why is that if this is the 'black community' problem as dsanthony likes to suggest? Shouldn't it exist in every black community then?

Here's a hint, the areas which have the higher crime rates also have the higher unemployment and lower economic development rates... that would suggest to me that maybe economic conditions play some part in it.

Looking at the predominately white neighborhoods in my city you'll see there's a parallel trend. The lower down on the economic scale an area is, the higher the crime rates for that area seem to be.

Perhaps race isn't the factor some like to suggest in relation to crime or poor behavior at all, the evidence doesn't seem to support that claim. Otherwise, a poor, run-down white neighborhood should have similar crime statistics to Malibu, yet that doesn't seem to be the case in most areas.

[Labrocca]

sbannon is of course correct that economics are the main contributing factor. Unfortunately blacks statistically are the poorest in the nation so this goes hand in hand...now WHY are blacks poorer is another big thread and it's the ultimate question that once solved imho would go a long way toward ending these types of debates.

As for punks coming in all shapes and sizes..oh how true but the white kids that beat me up did it because they knew me and didn't like me not because of the color of my skin.

[dsanthony]

Actually, sbannon is wrong. But he does spout the dem party line. Almost every week, a black rap singer or pro athlete is arrested for a gun charge or even murder. Millionaire rap artists from the east and west coast have had a running feud for years, with several artists and members of their entourage being killed.

This is not about class or economics. I knew many poor white families growing up but there was never a murder in my 12 years of public education. Shootings and murders are so common now that they rarely make the front page of the paper. In my hometown a few years ago, a young girl was playing alone in her bedroom when two gangs in cars began shooting at each other outside... one of the bullets passed through her window and hit her in the stomach. She lived, so the story was on page 2 of the local news section. In the 70s when I was in school, an event like that would have had the entire city in an uproar.

Dems are using the slippery slope method, with one tragedy following another and people forget that it was not like that 20 years ago. This wall of violence began in the late 80s and 90s when the rap culture began to emerge.

Here is a like to a "rap news" page which lists a few of the more publicized shootings:

http://www.rapnews.net/Topics/Shootings/

And a list from that page:

Rapper Beanie Sigel Shot In Botched Robbery
The shooting happened shortly after 8AM in Philadelphia this morning.
Bow Wow Event Ends With Gunfire
In the most recent incident of hip hop violence, two persons were shot in the parking lot after the concert.
Rapper T.I.'s Entourage Involved In Shooting
Members of rap artist T.I.'s crew were shot after a gun battle on a Cincinnati highway.
Hip Hop Radio Station Hot 97 Accepts Video Surveillance
The recent headlines surrounding the violence happening outside the offices of Hot 97 have prompted building owners to install video cameras.
Houston Rapper Hawk Shot And Killed
A member of the Screwed Up Click, Hawk, has been gunned down.
Family of Killed Bouncer Sues Proof Estate
The club shooting incident which ended in rapper Proof and a bouncer killed has brought a lawsuit by the bouncers family.
Another Shooting Outside Hip Hop Radio Station Hot 97
Brooklyn rap artist was on his way to NY radio station Hot 97 when he was shot at and hit once.
Pimp-C Released From Short Hospital Stay
After being chased by gunmen, Pimp-C's Bentley was crashed into.
After Being Shot, Daddy Yankee Says It Made Him Who He Is Today
At the age of 16, Daddy Yankee was struck by a stray AK-47 bullet and lived to speak about it.
Indianapolis Rapper Says Shooting Was In Defense
The artist known as D-Shock shot and killed an armed masked man early Wednesday morning.
Many Fans Turn Out To Proof's Viewing
Fans of D12 rapper Proof turned out in the thousands to attend the viewing.
West Coast Indie Rap Artist Killed At McDonald's
Known as "Mac" of the West Coast Head Bustas, the rapper was shot and killed last Friday at a fast food drive-through.
Funeral Service For D12 Rapper Proof Set
A public viewing for rap artist Proof will take place Tuesday the 18th, and the funeral is set for the following day.
Proof's Shooter Not Charged With Murder
Club CCC bouncer, Mario Etheridge, faces various weapons charges but not murder.
DMC Speaks On The Issue of Hip Hop Violence
Less violent lyrics are what DMC is requesting after the deaths of Proof and Jam Master Jay.
Rapper Eminem Speaks On Proof Shooting
After days of silence, Eminem and Proof's lawyer speak out remembering the memory.
Hip Hop Record Party Ends With 2 Shot, 1 Dead
The shooting occurred during a hip-hop record release party outside the C-Note Lounge.
The Source Hip Hop Magazine Faces Another Lawsuit
After having attempted murder charges dropped, the hip hop magazine faces a civil lawsuit.
Suspect Found In D12 Rapper Proof's Killing
The Detroit Police Department currently have a bouncer from the nighclub in custody.
D12 Rapper Proof Passes On After Shooting
Detroit police are currently searching for the gunman resposible for killing the rapper in a Detroit night club.
Kanye West Concert Ends In Shooting of Two
UK concert featuring the rapper Kanye West ended when two men working as users were shot.
Rap Music Video Ends After Shooting Kills Bodyguard
Bodyguard of rap artist Busta Rhymes was pronounced dead after being shot at the taping of a music video.
Recently Shot Rapper Speaks On Bullet In Head
Rap artist speaks regarding the shooting which occurred less than a week ago.
Obie Trice Shot In Drive-By Incident
Obie Trice and his girlfriend were driving when they were approached by another vehicle and were shot at, injuring Obie.
Eminem Studio Shooting Leaves One Dead
Yesterday, a man was sentenced to life in prison without parole after being found guilty of shooting the owner of a Detroit recording studio previously used by Eminem.
Lil Flip Concert Followed By Two Shot
Shortly after the Lil Flip concert, two people were shot.

Before zo and the liberal chorus start--this is black urban culture. Can you imagine REO Speedwagon and KISS engaged in running shootouts after concerts? Or Billy Joel killing Elton John outside a nightclub? The dems, bluntly, are lying when they say this is not about race.

[Alonzo]

Anthony, not suprisingly you're overlooking the fact that those people were born into a dramatically different situation.

[dsanthony]

Did I hear a liberal excusing murder? Wasn't sure. I guess America's childre, like Israel, are expendable because libs "feel the pain" of murderers and terrorists.

[Alonzo]

They were born and raised in high risk situations that would, statistically, result in higher crime rates among a population.

But you're not doing a good job of ignoring me, are you?

[Labrocca]

Dems are using the slippery slope method, with one tragedy following another and people forget that it was not like that 20 years ago. This wall of violence began in the late 80s and 90s when the rap culture began to emerge.


Umm..the 80's were 20 years ago. You are getting old my friend. I believe real street violence started with the 80's crack era (New Jack City). That was 20+ years ago already. You have to go back 30-35 years to find peaceful times for teenagers and even then...not so peaceful because there was civil rights riots and anti-war protests.

Before that it was Rock N Roll that got the kids crazy. Elvis was a bad man for quite some time singing that music like a black man and wiggling his hips.

I think Anthony is right about how the Dems approach it all though...liberalism won't help solve todays problems.

[dsanthony]

Yes, Elvis was seen as a threat by many, as were the Beatles and Led Zeppelin in their day. Certainly, standards change over time. And people who belong to the older generation dislike the newer. That's old news.

But neither Elvis, the Beatles or Zeppelin were singing about murdering cops or raping women. None of the musicians from the 60s through 80s were engaged in gun battles. When one person died at Altamont at a Rolling Stones concert, the entire rock world was shaken. There is gunfire and murder regularly at rap concerts, and no one notices.

Again, I discussed this in my "moral relativism" thread. There are standards which we must uphold. Murdering children goes beyond elvis wiggling his hips, or the beatles growing their hair.

Shame.

[Labrocca]

Yes it is a big shame and I agree with you on this subject of the perceptions of the youth today. It feels beyond extreme and into a dangerous place.