We're In Trouble

[Mayberry]

Let me first say that I'm no "Chicken Little", I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I'm not a nut job, and I'm not drunk (well, not yet anyway:D). We're in big trouble, and I don't think it's any great stretch of the imagination to see it. Our government has sold us down the river, lock, stock, and barrel. Very slowly we've watched the industrial might of this once great nation get parceled off overseas. What we are left with is a bunch of over-educated do-nothings who are too busy trying to accumulate crap to notice what's going on (please don't take offense, this is directed at no one in particular and merely reflects my personal observations). For one, our nation has gone from a manufacturing economy to a service economy. Very few people do much for themselves any more: they pay others to do it for them. I personally believe this is due to the fact that everyone in this country in the last 20 years has been brainwashed into believing that they must go to college to make any kind of living, and thus they have become soft and unable to do for themselves. Couple this with the ever spiralling cost of getting by and the fact that most families must have two wage earners to get by, and the problem is exacerbated tremendously. I personally know 2 Masters degree holders, and one PhD that couldn't think themselves out of a round room! They couldn't even manage to change a flat tire between two of them!!!!! People have lost that do-it-yourself mentality that once made this country great. When is the last time you've seen one of those Popular Mechanics do it yourself projects? When is the last time you've seen someone building something in the back yard? When is the last time you've seen someone maintaining their own vehicle? It's rare nowadays, because people have lost the ability to do things themselves, or they don't have the time due to hectic schedules of work. And I personally believe that this is exactly how "Big Brother" wants it. Building codes nowadays all but prevent someone from building their own home. City ordinances prevent folks from building a boat in the back yard. They prevent folks from working on their vehicles, or building a hot rod, or restoring a classic. There are so damn many rules against folks being independent these days it is sickening. And we just go along with it. I firmly believe that a revolution is coming, and soon. All the people in "fly-over country" are being ignored nowadays. Everything seems to be coming from New York, or the Left Coast. The average, everyday, hard working American is being ignored, mostly because they're too damned busy just getting by to pay much attention to what's going on. That is a real shame.

[lily]

I don't know......can someone have too much education? I suppose soon it might take a Masters Degree to work at McDonalds. I also know many people that are out of work, told they are over qualified and practilly have to beg to get a lower paying job........but then I live in Michigan.

I do want to comment on just this one sentence, as it struck me out of the whole essay and I hope I'm not taking the thread off topic in the first post.

Very few people do much for themselves any more: they pay others to do it for them.

If you're talking about building or repairs, yes, I have to agree as those have to be code approved, as you mentioned in essay. If you're talking about everyday things like TV, toaster, DVD or any small appliance, the price for them makes it so it's not worth fixing, you just throw it out and buy a new one. Then go in debt buying it.

Cars.....they make them now so you have to take them in the shop. My husband used to fix everything on our cars, now they're made so that you can't do it yourself.

[Mayberry]

Cars.....they make them now so you have to take them in the shop. My husband used to fix everything on our cars, now they're made so that you can't do it yourself.
Ahhhh.... Not so. I've done some good ol' fashioned troubleshooting on my Tahoe and fixed a problem, and I've always done my own maintenance. Code readers go a long way towards fixing things yourself as well. I have forked out $75 to have a shop hook the 'Hoe up to a diagnostic computer before, but then I performed $400 worth of repairs myself, with zero parts cost. It can be done, you just gotta educate yourself a little about the new stuff. Most people are just too lazy to do so, or lack the practical foundation.

[Muser]

I agree with much of what you've said, generally speaking; our government has indeed sold us down the river - if I didn't know any better, I'd swear it was intentional. This op-ed piece sums it up pretty nicely, IMO:

US Oblivious to Day of Reckoning (http://www.americaneconomicalert.org/view_art.asp?Prod_ID=2940)

Too many people with too much money and power have forgotten the little document that created this once-great nation: The Declaration of Independence. You know - independence? The spirit of independence has gone missing from not only our government, but its citizens, as well. We are now a nation of dependence - dependent on entitlements, foreign oil, foreign labor, foreign imports, foreign cash.

As the generations get further away from the Depression-era generation, there are less and less do-it-yourself types passing down the survival skills to the next generation. Times progressed, technology rolled in, more and more folks lost land and farms, moved to the city for better pay, a better life. Progress brought convenience - no need to know how to can veggies anymore, or hunt or fish to put food on the table.

But....there are still lots of self-sufficient, pioneering spirits out there - mountain dwellers, farmers, hunters, country folks, etc. If you're living in a high-rise condo in the middle of urbania, or a cookie-cutter home in suburbialand, you're not as likely to run across these do-it-yourself types.

I personally know 2 Masters degree holders, and one PhD that couldn't think themselves out of a round room! They couldn't even manage to change a flat tire between two of them!!!!!

LOL! <Angus Deayton>So...no change there then.</Angus Deayton>

People have lost that do-it-yourself mentality that once made this country great. When is the last time you've seen one of those Popular Mechanics do it yourself projects? When is the last time you've seen someone building something in the back yard? When is the last time you've seen someone maintaining their own vehicle?It's rare nowadays, because people have lost the ability to do things themselves, or they don't have the time due to hectic schedules of work. And I personally believe that this is exactly how "Big Brother" wants it. Building codes nowadays all but prevent someone from building their own home. City ordinances prevent folks from building a boat in the back yard. They prevent folks from working on their vehicles, or building a hot rod, or restoring a classic. There are so damn many rules against folks being independent these days it is sickening. And we just go along with it.

Gotta get away from the city, man. Out in the country, it's a whooooooole different story. Get some land out in the country, no deed restrictions. Nothing to prevent someone from building a hot rod or restoring a classic (we're into that, BTW) or building a boat.

FWIW, we're looking to buy such a place this summer here in Texas; the subprime meltdown barely made a dent here - land is still fairly cheap, not hard at all to get an acre (or several) close enough to commute to the city if needed. The goal is to rely as little as possible on government agencies and be as self-sufficient as possible. The parents-in-law live about 3 hrs down the road and own several hundred acres; they're what you'd call "old-school country" and can (and did) survive completely off the land - no mortgage, enough food crammed into deep freezers and storage to last a family of 6 for a year; grow their own beef; well water; spring-fed fishing pond; a healthy supply of guns and ammo; huge generator; veggie gardens and fruit trees; a ton of collected and stored metals (copper, lead, gold, silver, etc.); tractors; lots of old cars with plenty of parts to keep 'em running forever, tree farms for timber revenue, actively working to switch to solar/wind power....you might say they're our inspiration.

And we're passing all this knowledge down to our 12yo son; who knows, he might choose to become an accountant, but he'll be an accountant who knows how to mend a fence, chop a tree, run a trout line, hunt a deer, build an engine, and fix a washing machine. (Interestingly enough, his uncle - a 100% do-it-yourself survivalist country boy - graduated Texas A&M and has an extremely lucrative high-end engineering position working top-secret assignments for NASA). "Country" is not necessarily synonymous with "dumb hick".

Visit a local hot rod show, like the Good Guys Nationals (http://rides.webshots.com/album/199457029NMfTLw) - you'll meet all kinds of do-it-yourself folks; guys who can rebuild an engine by themselves, women who still can their own veggies and sew their own clothes. Or check into hunting groups - lots of self-sufficient, do-it-yourself survivalists there. And when I say "survivalists", I don't necessarily mean Bear <all rise> Grylls <you may be seated>.

I firmly believe that a revolution is coming, and soon.

That's what I'm waiting...and hoping...for.

All the people in "fly-over country" are being ignored nowadays. Everything seems to be coming from New York, or the Left Coast. The average, everyday, hard working American is being ignored, mostly because they're too damned busy just getting by to pay much attention to what's going on. That is a real shame.

I'm reminded of the Hank Williams, Jr. song, A Country Boy Can Survive. That's daaaaamn right.[hr]
Cars.....they make them now so you have to take them in the shop. My husband used to fix everything on our cars, now they're made so that you can't do it yourself.
Ahhhh.... Not so. I've done some good ol' fashioned troubleshooting on my Tahoe and fixed a problem, and I've always done my own maintenance. Code readers go a long way towards fixing things yourself as well. I have forked out $75 to have a shop hook the 'Hoe up to a diagnostic computer before, but then I performed $400 worth of repairs myself, with zero parts cost. It can be done, you just gotta educate yourself a little about the new stuff. Most people are just too lazy to do so, or lack the practical foundation.

Same here (we have a '99 Tahoe); a laptop with ODB II and AllData comes in real handy. :cool:

The answer, of course, is don't buy new - stick to the old stuff that's easy to work on with cheap, plentiful parts.

[4Reaganomics]

One thing I do agree with is the lack of do it yourself ability within our society these days. I want to be a professor of Economics one day, but I am honored to have had a father who taught me how to put up sheet rock and install rugs. I was privileged having a Dad who showed me how to install headers on a 5.0. I loved learning how to put in recessed light in, or how to put down ceramic tile.

I learned a good amount of other basic skills that I'll be able to use in everyday life. I also engaged in a good amount of athletics which served as a great influence.

Kids these days sit and play Xbox all day long. The adults aren't that much better either

[firefox]

Mayberry, do you have a degree? I'm just curious. I'll be earning a BA in polisci in 2 months ;)

[potter]

Good post Newberry. You have one of those 350 Vortecs or one of the new smaller V8's?

[Elrathin]

Very slowly we've watched the industrial might of this once great nation get parceled off overseas.

Yep agree fully with that, corporations are more concerned with making money than doing what's right.


What we are left with is a bunch of over-educated do-nothings who are too busy trying to accumulate crap to notice what's going on....

Education isn't a bad thing. It's what has helped move this country forward.


Very few people do much for themselves any more: they pay others to do it for them. I personally believe this is due to the fact that everyone in this country in the last 20 years has been brainwashed into believing that they must go to college to make any kind of living, and thus they have become soft and unable to do for themselves.

It's not being brainwashed when the statistics don't lie. Employers are more apt to hiring someone with a degree than without. It is THAT practice that forces people to seek a college education.

That's capitalism. So if you have a problem with the stereotypes that you need an education, blame the employers that only take a first look to see if you have it, and if you don't, they toss your resume in the trash.


I personally know 2 Masters degree holders, and one PhD that couldn't think themselves out of a round room! They couldn't even manage to change a flat tire between two of them!!!!!

No argument, always a difference between book smarts and street smarts.


It's rare nowadays, because people have lost the ability to do things themselves, or they don't have the time due to hectic schedules of work.

Not sure about that, maybe it's just because where I live, but the neighborhood I am in I see many people working on their house.

If you're talking about fixing appliances, as mentioned it is cheaper to just replace them than fix them. I had a VCR go out and when I checked to see if I could get the part, the part itself (with shipping and handling) it was more than a new one.

Cars? Well, unfortunately I'm one of those people that have to take it in. I end up doing more damage than good trying to fix them. Give me a house though to install roofing, tile, electrical, plumbing, and I will be more than happy to do that hehe.


City ordinances prevent folks from building a boat in the back yard. They prevent folks from working on their vehicles, or building a hot rod, or restoring a classic.

Really? Wasn't aware of that here. As long as you do it in your driveway, backyard, etc, I haven't seen anything that would prevent you from doing it.

The average, everyday, hard working American is being ignored, mostly because they're too damned busy just getting by to pay much attention to what's going on. That is a real shame.


Sorry, I don't buy that excuse. People can make the time if they really want to. I see voters that have no idea what the positions are for candidates, but they have no problem sitting back and watching their favorite sit-com or football game on T.V.

Yes, some people are real busy, but I don't see that with the majority of people. Instead I think most people make time for their own pleasure.

[Mayberry]

Mayberry, do you have a degree? Nope. Don't really want one either. I educate myself on topics I want or need to know about. I have no desire to shell out 10s of thousands of dollars on a bunch of classes I don't want or need to complete some degree program, 90% of which is irrelevant to the real world. And yes, I have looked into it. The more I saw, the more I wanted to run in the other direction. You have one of those 350 Vortecs or one of the new smaller V8's? 5.3 freakin' powerhouse!!! I did have a Vortec 350 that I transplanted into my '80 Silverado, but I sold her. Dumb dumb dumb! Employers are more apt to hiring someone with a degree than without. It is THAT practice that forces people to seek a college education.
A stupid policy that precludes a lot of good potential employees. Education isn't a bad thing. It's what has helped move this country forward. I have nothing against education per se; just overpriced, institutionalized education. Sorry, I don't buy that excuse. People can make the time if they really want to. 2 jobs, 2 kids, house, yard, soccer, spelling bees, homework, chess club, kick ball...... all you have energy for at the end of the day is to pour yourself into the couch and veg out (or peck at the 'puter :D). Muser, I'm jealous! I'd love to move out to the country, but the wife won't hear of it. She's a city gal. I'd be happy with 10 acres, a doublewide, a BIG barn, and an old Farmall. I love old tractors! I'd spend my days mowing neighbors places and drinkin' beer if I had an old Farmall and a brush hog.

[Osborn F. Enready]

Elrathin said:
Yep agree fully with that, corporations are more concerned with making money than doing what's right.

Has anyone ever wondered what makes a "corporation" different than a small business in this aspect?

The difference is that a corporation is controlled remotely, by a headquarters, whose intrests are most likely not the same as the location where the local outlet is. This results in a business that may work directly against local intrests. Small businessmen usually live in, or next to the area where their business is located, so they have a vested intrest in making decisions that affect the local are positively.

Mayberry said:
A stupid policy that precludes a lot of good potential employees.

I agree, and it is because corporations are more interested in how you play the game, than whether you are a winner or not, which goes hand in hand with my last post to Elrathin. The biggest offender is multi-nationals, who have headquarters in FOREIGN land, which means they may be working toward goals which are not only local intrests, but national intrests.

Incorporation is an invaluable tool if kept local. The further the headquarters, and more removed the leadership and decision making, the more detrimental it is to local and sometimes national intrests.

The same could be said of labor unions. The more locally controlled, the more accurate the representation of the people they are charged with representing.

[Archasgame5]

Keep in mind - PhDs, and Masters degrees for that matter, are so specialized - no wonder most can't change a tire - but they could talk circles around you in the field of molecular biology as it pertains to the life cycle of the haploid... yeah, you get it.

[Pookie]

In the pursuit of higher education, learning institutions forget to teach and encourage self-reliance. You don't have to fix it yourself, get a degree and pay others to fix it.
In today's changing economy and spiralling costs, college graduates are not equipped with the common sense and the drive it takes to do it yourself.
Thank God my parents taught me better than that, college and all. We are major do-it-yourselfers, from cars and roofs to appliances and plumbing.
Parents need to be teaching this; colleges and universities won't.
Purrs,
Pookie

[Osborn F. Enready]

Arch said:
Keep in mind - PhDs, and Masters degrees for that matter, are so specialized - no wonder most can't change a tire - but they could talk circles around you in the field of molecular biology as it pertains to the life cycle of the haploid... yeah, you get it.

No doubt, we need people with specialized education, but we need thinkers, not automatons who have no power of skeptical thought, and skeptical thought isn't being taught much these days.

Pookie said:
In today's changing economy and spiralling costs, college graduates are not equipped with the common sense and the drive it takes to do it yourself.

And a lot of them will pay the price for that if the bottom falls out, or comes near.

We are all paying the price for the lack of skeptical thought though, and its quite designed into the system.

“In growing up, the normal individual has learned to check the expression of aggressive impulses. But the culture has failed, almost entirely, in inculcating internal controls on actions that have their origin in authority. For this reason, the latter constitutes a far greater danger to human survival.”
-Stanley Milgram, Yale social psychologist, in Obedience To Authority

“To ignore the evidence, and hope that it cannot be true, is more an evidence of mental illness.”
-William Blase

“Logical consequences are the scarecrows of fools and the beacons of wise men.”
-Thomas Henry Huxley (1825 - 1895)

“Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.”
-Daniel Webster

“The business of skepticism is to be dangerous. Skepticism challenges established institutions. If we teach everybody, including, say, high school students, habits of skeptical thought, they will probably not restrict their skepticism to UFOs, aspirin commercials, and 35,000-year-old channelees. Maybe they'll start asking awkward questions about economic, or social, or political, or religious institutions. Perhaps they'll challenge the opinions of those in power. Then where would we be?”
-Carl Sagan, in The Demon-Haunted World (Sagan encouraged skepticism on all these subjects - he was simply articulating why the establishment is wary of it.)

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
-Henry Ford