How To Bring Down The American Empire?

[December]

....so that American people won't fear terrorists and live in peace and be able to afford to make mortgage payments and don't have to choose between food and medications.

Any ideas?....

Obviously American people do not benefit from the overseas colonies....

Studies: Iraq costs US $12B per month
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080309/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_war_costs

[PatrickHenry]

The US can't afford to go on as is.

The Empire will crumble under its own financial weight.

Make sure you stay out from under the toppling fragments...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson

Johnson believes the enforcement of American hegemony over the world constitutes a new form of global empire. Whereas traditional empires maintained control over subject peoples via colonies, since World War II the US has developed a vast system of hundreds of military bases around the world where it has strategic interests. A long-time Cold Warrior, Johnson experienced a political awakening after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989, noting that instead of demobilizing its massive armed forces, the US accelerated its reliance on military solutions to problems both economic and political. The result of this militarism (as distinct from actual domestic defense) is more terrorism against the US and its allies, the loss of core democratic values at home, and an eventual disaster for the American economy.

[Osborn F. Enready]

American Empire is killing itself.

The only additional element needed is time.

[December]

I agree with you, Osborn F. Enready.

U.S. economy could fall casualty to wars

(AP) -- The flow of blood may be ebbing, but the flood of money into the Iraq war is steadily rising, new analyses show.
A boy rests at an Iraqi refugee camp in June. Economists say it's hard to calculate the social costs of war.
In 2008, its sixth year, the war will cost approximately $12 billion a month, triple the "burn" rate of its earliest years, Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph E. Stiglitz and co-author Linda J. Bilmes report in a new book.

Beyond 2008, working with "best-case" and "realistic-moderate" scenarios, they project the Iraq and Afghan wars, including long-term U.S. military occupations of those countries, will cost the U.S. budget between $1.7 trillion and $2.7 trillion -- or more -- by 2017.
Interest on money borrowed to pay those costs could alone add $816 billion to that bottom line, they say.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/10/iraq.costs.ap/index.html[hr]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson
eventual disaster for the American economy.


Thanks for the info, PatrickHenry

[NoMoreDems-Reps]

Remember the American Empire is really the REP-DEM Monopoly !

They have been "THE ONLY" ones that have had any influence in
what has happened to America !!

As long as you continue to put these two "KNOWN" Corrupt
parties in to power bad things will continue to happen to
America !

And don't try to justify why one party in not as bad as the other !
They have proven themselves to be unworthy of leading America !
Our goal as Americans should not be to support the "Lesser of
Two Evils" but to look for Good, Smart, Honest, and Fair people.

Also not as soon as Americans get use to voting out corrupt parties
and politicians we will be more inclined to do so, and politicians
will be less inclined to be corrupt or dishonest !!!!


http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm
Focus on the second paragraph and ask yourself:
Why do we keep the REPS&DEMS in power?

I would say read the constitution but The Congress, the Prez, and
the Supreme Courts don't really use or follow it anymore so why
bother.

[moses2792796]

I must agree with Osborn here, eventually the western way of life will not be able to support itself. Those who understand tradition are already aware that the nature of modern society was predicted thousands of years before today. America conforms to all the attributes that were said to be likely to occur shortly before the end of civilisation as we know it. This was predicted in Hindu, Christian, Muslim, and many more ancient doctrines.

[maten149]

....so that American people won't fear terrorists and live in peace and be able to afford to make mortgage payments and don't have to choose between food and medications.

Any ideas?....

Obviously American people do not benefit from the overseas colonies....

It is a difficult question.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the system will come down gracefully
and controlled. It will probably get worse before it gets better.
Under the growing dissatisfaction with government, increased economic difficulties due to the global market power-shift, people will have less
$$ and find that the currency strength drops dramatically. This is already happening.

My guess is that protectionism, isolationism will be tomorrows agenda.
I also guess that in order to keep people from not literally revolting, the
strategy from government will be that of alienating the outside world.
Distracting people more and more from the domestic problems by focusing on the external 'enemy' whether it be Iraq, Iran, China, Russia, UN, Terrorism et cetera. In times of crisis, there are some proven tricks to maintain control of the people: Holding people in fear, using propaganda to motivate the necessity of a HomeLand Security system (which monitors the population and preempts disturbances), issuing a national terror-level warning system - all this might be interpreted as signs that this distraction policy is already a long way gone in its implementation...

I must re-read this post in 5 years and see if I was correct :-)

/ Mattias

[Easy90]

Wow! What a load of crap! LOL!

[maten149]

While I admit to having drunk a fair share of lagavulin prime single malt scotch. (You should visit their distillery) ;) ,
I am serious.

Although I used some dramatic formulations, this is what I believe is coming.

[penmyst]

I got lost at the part referring to an "American Empire". When has the U.S. ever had a foreign policy of colonizing other places? Setting up a country to govern itself is not colonization.

I don't happen to think we need to be gallivanting around the globe and becoming entangled in foreigners' problems. But spreading some freedom around the world isn't all that bad. /shrug The world sure could use more freedom and less gubmint. Especially if it can eventually flower into a republic that becomes a bulwark in the war against 7th century islamo-fascists.

[moses2792796]

America is worse than a standard conquering nation because they take control of other countries subversively and claim that they are 'freeing' them.

[preservanation]

America is worse than a standard conquering nation because they take control of other countries subversively and claim that they are 'freeing' them.

Just like we did with Germany and Japan?
We also could have had France and England and much of Europe if we wanted.
As a matter of fact we could take over any nation on this planet if we wanted.
If what you say is true why don't we?
There is no other nation in history which uses it's military to keep the peace in the world and take nothing. If you have an example of another nation which has done this please tell me.

Dems in congress are even complaining about the oil prices and wonder out loud why we can't just take it from Iraq, but the neo-cons say no because that is not what America does.

[AnnEsthesia]

Can you link to where the dems in congress have asked for us to steal oil from Iraq? Thanks!

[dgun]

The American Empire has not hit its crest yet. Not even close.

Get back with me in 200-300 years, December.

[Elrathin]

Dems in congress are even complaining about the oil prices and wonder out loud why we can't just take it from Iraq, but the neo-cons say no because that is not what America does.


The neocons have said the oil will pay for the war, get it right.

[4Reaganomics]

Iraqi oil revenues are soaring and will help Iraq develop democracy while we build bases right next to the evil Iranian regime to keep them in check, get it right

[Elrathin]

“The Iraq war will pay for itself just like the last one did” -Dick Cheney

Liars one and all in this administration.

[PatrickHenry]

The American Empire has not hit its crest yet. Not even close.

Get back with me in 200-300 years, December.

I think you're wrong. I think it will be financially unsupportable very shortly.

http://www.alternet.org/story/47455/?page=entire

By the time I came to write Nemesis, I no longer doubted that maintaining our empire abroad required resources and commitments that would inevitably undercut, or simply skirt, what was left of our domestic democracy and that might, in the end, produce a military dictatorship or -- far more likely -- its civilian equivalent. The combination of huge standing armies, almost continuous wars, an ever growing economic dependence on the military-industrial complex and the making of weaponry, and ruinous military expenses as well as a vast, bloated "defense" budget, not to speak of the creation of a whole second Defense Department (known as the Department of Homeland Security) has been destroying our republican structure of governing in favor of an imperial presidency. By republican structure, of course, I mean the separation of powers and the elaborate checks and balances that the founders of our country wrote into the Constitution as the main bulwarks against dictatorship and tyranny, which they greatly feared.

We are on the brink of losing our democracy for the sake of keeping our empire. Once a nation starts down that path, the dynamics that apply to all empires come into play -- isolation, overstretch, the uniting of local and global forces opposed to imperialism, and in the end bankruptcy.

[dgun]

I think it will be financially unsupportable very shortly.

There is a difference between thinking and wishing, December. I guess you just ignored those GDP figures I quoted for you yesterday.

[PatrickHenry]

I think it will be financially unsupportable very shortly.

There is a difference between thinking and wishing, December. I guess you just ignored those GDP figures I quoted for you yesterday.
You quoted me, then addressed December.

GDP is one thing, deficit government spending is something else.

[dgun]

deficit government spending is something else

No doubt Bush has got us in a hole. But it's hardly the end.

[PatrickHenry]

When will the Empire of Bases be curtailed?

[dgun]

When will the Empire of Bases be curtailed?

Well, I have some protectionist leanings so I'm sure you can guess how I feel about that.

Let Europe defend Europe. Let Japan defend Japan. Let South Korea defend South Korea.

Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan as soon as possible. And between the two, I would say get out of Iraq within the next few months and get out of Afghanistan as soon as the central government is able to control the strategically important areas of the country. I have a soft spot for the people of Afghanistan who have been through so much shit the last 30+ years.

[Questerr]

I got lost at the part referring to an "American Empire". When has the U.S. ever had a foreign policy of colonizing other places? Setting up a country to govern itself is not colonization.


Cuba?
The Phillipines?
The Westward Expansion?
Puerto Rico?
Guam?
The US Virgin Islands?
Panama?

Have you heard of any of these things? Are you aware that the US has a history that goes back before 1910?

Before WWII, the US was a blatantly imperial power.

[penmyst]

A few of those you list are geographically very near the U.S. and enjoy benefits similar to a state but without the responsibility. And a couple of the other ones came about as U.S. territories due to strategic locations, and it's not as if those countries do not benefit greatly from their relationship with the U.S.

That number is small enough that you can hardly call the U.S. "imperialistic".

What the real crux of the problem is, for people that see the U.S. as some bad guy that inflicts ebil on the world-- is that those people lack the judgement to distinguish that some ideas are better than others. Read: the version of freedom put forth by the Declaration and subsequent government carefully constructed by The Constitution are the among the best ideas ever postulated by mankind. It wasn't luck that the U.S. became, and is, the greatest nation the world has ever seen and probably ever will see. It doesn't get any better, at least until you get to heaven.

[PatrickHenry]

...It wasn't luck that the U.S. became, and is, the greatest nation the world has ever seen and probably ever will see. It doesn't get any better, at least until you get to heaven.
Damn! I think I hear the angels singing...

No wait...that would be the deluded worshippers of the serial rapist, Uncle Sam.

The US is a neo-imperialist nation, controlling its empire not through colonies but with over 700 military bases throughout the world:
http://www.alternet.org/story/47998/

Interestingly enough, the thirty-eight large and medium-sized American facilities spread around the globe in 2005 -- mostly air and naval bases for our bombers and fleets -- almost exactly equals Britain's thirty-six naval bases and army garrisons at its imperial zenith in 1898. The Roman Empire at its height in 117 AD required thirty-seven major bases to police its realm from Britannia to Egypt, from Hispania to Armenia. Perhaps the optimum number of major citadels and fortresses for an imperialist aspiring to dominate the world is somewhere between thirty-five and forty.

[Questerr]

...It wasn't luck that the U.S. became, and is, the greatest nation the world has ever seen and probably ever will see. It doesn't get any better, at least until you get to heaven.
Damn! I think I hear the angels singing...

No wait...that would be the deluded worshippers of the serial rapist, Uncle Sam.

The US is a neo-imperialist nation, controlling its empire not through colonies but with over 700 military bases throughout the world:
http://www.alternet.org/story/47998/

Interestingly enough, the thirty-eight large and medium-sized American facilities spread around the globe in 2005 -- mostly air and naval bases for our bombers and fleets -- almost exactly equals Britain's thirty-six naval bases and army garrisons at its imperial zenith in 1898. The Roman Empire at its height in 117 AD required thirty-seven major bases to police its realm from Britannia to Egypt, from Hispania to Armenia. Perhaps the optimum number of major citadels and fortresses for an imperialist aspiring to dominate the world is somewhere between thirty-five and forty.


Question: Do you consider bases we lease (IE: pay for) and bases in US territories imperial?

We lease our bases in Germany, Turkey, Italy, and England. We have a number of our bases on leased islands like Diege Garcia (not exactly a great "colony" location). Also a number of our bases are in places in Guam which belong to us anyway.

I can see our superbases in Iraq as being "imperial", but most of our bases aren't there just because we say so.

[4Reaganomics]

Those who are not prductive and successful here have resentment that we our in the world's affairs as a leading power.

[PatrickHenry]

Those who are not prductive and successful here have resentment that we our in the world's affairs as a leading power.
Sideways swordslash that missed!

Productivity and success?

I don't know about you, but I have reared a son, whose family now consists of my two grandsons with their mom...and a group of foster daughters that love me...because I provided a home and love for THEM.

I have numerous wealthy clients who call me in desperation to solve their home repair problems...AND I pay about $25K per year into the bottomless hole of the IRS.

I could go on...but that might seem like overkill, college youngster.


I notice you regard yourself as the world's leading power, by using the inclusive word, "we."

I think of the USA as my oppressor/overlord who extracts tribute from me...a CITIZEN, with threats of force and confiscation...

only to misuse the hijacked money to bully other nations with military force.

There is no doubt that Uncle Sam is a POWER.

But, his moral authority, once highly regarded, has been shredded as he undertakes torture, spying on his own citizens, extremes of government secrecy, the worlds's largest gulag system, and false-flag attacks to justify hyper-militarism.

Do I resent him? Well, frankly yes. However, I recognize something that perhaps many don't.

This: Psalm 5:1-6 Listen, LORD, as I pray! Pay attention when I groan. You are my King and my God. Answer my cry for help because I pray to you. Each morning you listen to my prayer, as I bring my requests to you and wait for your reply. You are not the kind of God who is pleased with evil. Sinners can't stay with you. No one who boasts can stand in your presence, LORD, and you hate evil people. You destroy every liar, and you despise violence and deceit.


Uncle Sam's time for judgement is approaching.