View Full Version : Bush Blowing Up The Levves At NOLA.
Go Fish
03-10-2008, 04:46 AM
Anyone who knows what the status of that investigation is, I'd appreciate an update.
Also, I'm still looking for any sort of evidence that President Bush had the World Trade Centers demolished so that he could kill Muslim babies and steal their oil.
For some reason, these hot-button topics seem to have been swept under the rug.
PatrickHenry
03-10-2008, 08:52 PM
Anyone who knows what the status of that investigation is, I'd appreciate an update.
Also, I'm still looking for any sort of evidence that President Bush had the World Trade Centers demolished so that he could kill Muslim babies and steal their oil.
For some reason, these hot-button topics seem to have been swept under the rug.
Get real.
You think the official story makes sense, militarist.
Go Fish
03-11-2008, 09:26 PM
Why of course I do. Steel softens when it's heated (I've used a forge in my time) and there was no bomb at New Orleans. I just thought that at some point all the information which the really smart people claimed to have would be brought out into the light so that the "truth" could be told.
Still haven't seen anything yet, so I figured I'd ask.
Kevin67
03-15-2008, 12:23 AM
I agree with Go Fish, the whole inside-job conspiracy is ridiculous. I don't like Bush either, but to claim he brought the towers down is just stupid. Bush cannot do such a thing without help from thousands of people, and one would have spit everything out by now with evidence if this were the case.
Why dont you ask bush if, in the course of his relentless investigations of his cronies, he renditioned any/all of the perps and witnesses.
Have him explain the molten metal pouring from the window of the tower, too.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2991254740145858863&q=cameraplanet%2B9/11
Notice in that video that when they pulled the tower there was no inferno to "soften" the MASSIVE steel beams. Only the thick black smoke the you see AFTER a fire. The kerosene based fuel had burned out.
With all that heavy black and grey smoke not hot flame could exist. No oxygen to burn. They HAD to pull it....the show was over. But that would have been a dud. They would not have enough victims if those towers didnt drop.[hr]They needed "A New Pearl Harbor" Thats what Dickhead Cheney and the NWO signed up for. He is a signer of the PNAC. Thats exhibit A[hr]As for blowing up the levees...... is it really that far fetched. The government did that before. They sacrificed the share-croppers when the wealthy plantation owners were threatened. Now, I was not trying to make that sound like class warfare.... it just is.
PatrickHenry
03-15-2008, 08:22 PM
...As for blowing up the levees...... is it really that far fetched. The government did that before. They sacrificed the share-croppers when the wealthy plantation owners were threatened. Now, I was not trying to make that sound like class warfare.... it just is.
True that's what happened in 1927, was it?
http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2002AM/finalprogram/abstract_44272.htm
The Mississippi started rising in August, 1926, passed flood stage at Cairo, Illinois on New Year’s Day, 1927, and remained in flood for as long as 153 consecutive days. The flood shattered levees from Illinois to the Gulf of Mexico, inundating 27,000 square miles of land. The City of New Orleans was spared, but at the cost of dynamiting levees and intentionally flooding the poor and politically disenfranchised parishes downstream. Until that time, the U.S. Federal government had left relief from natural disasters in local and private hands, but the scope of the 1927 flood disaster was such that the government was forced to step in, ushering in the subsequent era of growing Federal involvement in disaster relief and recovery. The relief effort was massive but uneven, with inequities largely falling along racial lines.
Go Fish
03-16-2008, 08:01 PM
The government IS to blame for the deaths in New Orleans. The city government and the state government.
Here's my proof: http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/floodedbuses.jpg
Where's yours?
Fish, youve been carrying that garbage around way too long.
Those busses were sitting there because FEMA forbid using them. FEMA said "We have air conditioned busses on the way" (they arrived 4 DAYS LATER!!)
Your proof is only proof of the pretended incompetance of the murdering racists you respect. I say pretended incompetance... because, in reality they were not negligent EXCEPT in NOLA. That damns their intent. Their moral incompetance. Their HATE.
FEMA did GREAT in surrounding REPUBLICAN areas.
Heckuva Job, Bigots!
Heres a recap, from back when the story was fresh:
{commentary}
My Point: The incompetent response to Katrina was immoral and criminal, whoever was responsible. This is not an ideological battle, this is an appraisal of government competence.
Sure, Mayor Nagin should have had more than 2 to 3 days of food and water, and more than 90 cops and 300 Guard at the Superdome. He should have speeded up talks to have the Saints install backup generators at the Dome. Porta-pots could have been deployed to the Dome incase flooding backed up the sewers. There should have been a plan to move the school buses to higher ground when the evac was ordered (for standby use in case the flood hit). While the Convention Center wasn't used before Katrina, it should have been stocked with food and water just in case. A Cat 5 survivable emergency communications system should have been installed.
On the other hand, he did get 80% of his people out before Katrina without creating gridlock (Houston only got out 90% even with more lead time. ) He did use municipal buses to move people to the Dome.
But Nagin doesn't own a spare stadium outside of New Orleans to evac his people to when the wind picks up. He doesn't have a helicopter battalion of his own to drop food/water and medevac. He doesn't own a mobile hospital to process thousands of people at the airport prior to out of area evac. He doesn't command a brigade of Guard or Active Duty troops to secure the streets. He has no C-130s to evac nursing homes like the Air Force did in Houston. And he doesn't have his own Army Corps of Engineers to design, build and maintain levees.
Governor Blanco could have deployed the Guard differently, installed hurricane proof communications, developed a more detailed shopping list and shown more command presence.
But 3,000 of her guard was in Iraq, along with her Guard commincations equipment, amphibious vehicles and helicopters. (You are aware, of course, that Iraq deploying units pull the best soldiers and equipment together, leaving behind undermanned and under equipped units behind.) She did find shelter and food in Baton Rouge and many other LA cities for the evacuees with cars. She did commandeer school buses from other LA parishes to further evac NO even though FEMA told her to wait for air-conditioned buses, which took FEMA 4 days to provide.
Now, what's wrong with saying "Send me everything you've got!." Please, tell me, what emergency or disaster doesn't require evacuation assistance, food and water delivery, medical teams, emergency communications hardware and emergency (helicopter/heavy equipment) transportation assets? The immediate needs for a dirty bomb, a chem/bio attack, an LPG tanker/refinery attack, an earthquake, forest fires, massive tornadoes all seem similar: evac, feed, medical, communicate, emergency transport.
What's the protocol when anyone with a TV can see people waving from their rooftops and dead bodies in wheel chairs at the Convention Center? Request forms in triplicate with the Governor's seal in wax?
Is it just a coincidence that feds aided emergency response well in all states but Louisiana?
Is it a coincidence that the Governors of MS and AL were Republicans? Do you think the fact that Barbour is the past Chairman of the Republican National Committee might temper his public comments? Coincidence that Bush called Barbour 3 or 4 times and Blanco got shuffled around to Andy Card when she called the White House during the first few days?
LA was the only state to have substantial levee breaks in a major city, but not the only state to feel disenchantment.
Sen. Trent Lott (R) says Mississippians "are disenchanted" with the federal response in their state...Lott says, "It's been hard to get attention." He did help to get the USS Comfort hospital ship sent to Pascagoula after he tried to get the USS Battan moved from New Orleans.
Michael Brown? "Brownie, you're doing a hell of a job." The Arabian Horse Judge whose two deputies were PR and Advance Men for the Republicans? Michael "What Convention Center?" Brown who let his cable subscription lapse during "possibly the biggest national disaster" Brownie? There's only one word: crony. Only one solution: fire his incompetent butt.
Fire ALL the incompetent butts.
Posted by: fracas_futile | September 25, 2005 at 08:22 PM
source (http://wuzzadem.typepad.com/wuz/2005/09/another_katrina_2.html)
apdst
03-20-2008, 05:41 AM
Those busses were sitting there because FEMA forbid using them. FEMA said "We have air conditioned busses on the way" (they arrived 4 DAYS LATER!!)
Oh god!!! PLEASE support that with even half assed proof...LMAO!!!!
Sure.
Bush put FEMA in charge before Katrina hit.
FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. [White House, 8/27/05 (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html)]
CLAIM — MAYOR NAGIN LEFT 2,000 SCHOOL BUSES BEHIND IN THE FLOOD: Sean Hannity said, "You would have thought that the 2,000 buses, school buses, that sat in the yards would have been used to help those people that were incapable of getting out on their own, but none of that had happened locally." [Hannity and Colmes, 9/6/05 (http://mediamatters.org/items/200509120005)]
FACT — NEW ORLEANS HAD LESS THAN 300 WORKING SCHOOL BUSES: “The [Orleans Parish school] district owns 324 buses but 70 are broken down.” [New Orleans Times-Picayune, 9/5/05 (http://nolassf.dev.advance.net/newsstory/o_bus05.html)]
CLAIM: LOCAL OFFICIALS DESERVE BLAME FOR LACK OF EVACUATION BUSES : Rick Santorum claimed, "Many didn’t have cars … And that really was a failure on the part of local officials in not making transportation available to get people out." [Times Leader, 9/6/05 (http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/breaking_news/12574597.htm)]
FACT: LOUISIANA NATIONAL GUARD REQUESTED 700 BUSES FROM FEMA FOR EVACUATIONS, FEMA ONLY SENT 100: The Boston Globe reported, “On Sunday, the day before the storm, the Louisiana National Guard asked FEMA for 700 buses to evacuate people. It received only 100.†[Boston Globe, 9/11/05 (http://www.boston.com/news/weather/articles/2005/09/11/chronology_of_errors_how_a_disaster_spread?mode=PF )]
The above facts and more were found here:
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/09/13/katrina-myths-debunked/
RAW STORY (http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Paper_Internal_documents_show_government_bungled_K atrina_re_0913.html)
<snip>
In addition, FEMA's official requests, known as tasking assignments and used by the agency to demand help from other government agencies, show that it first asked the Department of Transportation to look for buses to help evacuate the more than 20,000 people who had taken refuge at the Superdome in New Orleans at 1:45 a.m. on Aug. 31. At the time, it only asked for 455 buses and 300 ambulances for the enormous task. Almost 18 hours later, it canceled the request for the ambulances because it turned out, as one FEMA employee put it, "the DOT doesn't do ambulances."
FEMA ended up modifying the number of buses it thought it needed to get the job done, until it settled on a final request of 1,355 buses at 8:05 p.m. on Sept. 3. The buses, though, trickled into New Orleans, with only a dozen or so arriving on the first day.
The part of the plan that authorizes OSHA's role as coordinator and allows it to mobilize experts from other agencies such as NIH wasn't activated by FEMA until shortly before 5 p.m. Sunday. The delay came despite repeated efforts by the agencies to mobilize.
Its late. May or may not continue tomorrow.
Heres another link to go over.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_09/007104.php
see items 17, 20 and 21...prolly more. im fading fast
PostmodernProphet
03-20-2008, 09:37 AM
lol......his source was somebody's comment posted on somebody's blog......
AlanC
03-20-2008, 04:02 PM
Bush put no one in charge of anything prior to Katrina hitting. That quote refers to FEMAs mission. It existed a long time before Bush came into office.
The rest of this displays a tremendous amount of misunderstanding as to how FEMA operates. In fact, it displays a tremendous amount of misunderstanding as to how emergency and disaster response operates.
1. The initial response to any and all disasters is local. Emergency planners are told that the first 48 to 72 hours of any disaster will be theirs and theirs alone. They should not plan on any outside help for that length of time.
2. Management responsibility of all disasters is lcoal. No Federal agency runs, manages or makes decisions with respect to the management of any initial response, rescue or recovery from any disaster.
3. Having a plan in place todeal with the problems presented by any disaster is the responsibility of the local, city and state governments.
4. FEMA and the National Guard have NO authority to command, direct, refuse, order or in any other way manage any disaster.
5. The decision to use New Orleans buses to transport New Orleans citizens would have been made by only one person. The mayor of New Orleans.
6. As to outside help, it is up to the city to request what they need from the state and it is up to the state to make any declarations and requests to the Federal Government.
7 President Bush had no authority to mandate a Federal takeover of the disaster activity in New Orleans or in Louisiana. That is why he ASKED the governor if she wanted the Feds to take over the operation.
8 FEMA owns no assets, has no buses, no houses and equipment. Their function is to react to needs identified by local government and then to use funds to procure, purchase, lease, coordinate and other wise do what ever they can to provide the level of aid requested by those in charge locally and at the state level.
9 If someone requests 2,000 buses, that does not mean they will magically appear. FEMA needs to locate them and then make arrangements for their leasing and transportation. Without some indication by local authorities, it is an impossible job to anticipate any and all possible needs. That is why local planning and preperation is so important.
The responsibility for planning and response or the failures contained therein rest solely with the City of New Orleans and the State of Louisiana.
Was FEMA as organized as they should have been? Probably not. Do they bear the primary responsibility for the disaster in New Orleans? No. They don't.
lol......his source was somebody's comment posted on somebody's blog......
My last post is fully documented by White House press releases and major news sources. The post before that was volunteered as a refresher and I noted that.....{commentary}.
This all happened 3 years ago and some people apparently are choosing to remember the lies of repugnant hacks... rather than basic facts.
If FEMA was in charge BEFORE Katrina hit... why didnt Brownie order those busses to higher ground rather than worrying about if he looked gay enough at the beauty parlor.
The White House (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html)
For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
August 27, 2005
Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana
The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.
The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.
Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.
Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: FEMA (202) 646-4600. See anything wrong with that list of Parishes?
Wheres Orleans Parish?
Oh thats right....Orleans Parish is BLACK and VOTES DEMOCRATIC!!!
They deserve to drown, right?
AlanC
03-20-2008, 06:42 PM
And where is your copy of the City of New Orleans Emergency Plan? For that matter, where is the copy of the State of Louisiana's Emergency Plan?
PostmodernProphet
03-21-2008, 01:12 AM
My last post is fully documented by White House press releases and major news sources. The post before that was volunteered as a refresher and I noted that.....{commentary}.
true, but your last post says nothing about the comment you were called on......it appears to still be hanging in thin air.....
PostmodernProphet
03-21-2008, 01:16 AM
See anything wrong with that list of Parishes?
Wheres Orleans Parish?
Oh thats right....Orleans Parish is BLACK and VOTES DEMOCRATIC!!!
They deserve to drown, right?
let me get this straight.....are you taking the position that the federal government intentionaly excepted Orleans Parish and that they did it for the reason that they are blacks who vote for Democrats?......now I'm as ready as the next man to admit that Democrats deserve to drown, but if you're trying to make this into a race issue, I call you out as a fool and a liar.....
4Reaganomics
03-21-2008, 01:19 AM
This is better than the government injecting aids into minorities theory
Still waiting for somebody to show me "Orleans Parish" in the Presidential list of Parishes that DESERVE to be rescued.
In spite of the fact that the flooding was CAUSED by the Feds....(CBS/AP (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/01/national/main1675244.shtml))
A contrite U.S. Army Corps of Engineers took responsibility Thursday for the flooding of New Orleans by Hurricane Katrina and said the levees failed because they were built in a disjointed fashion using outdated data. ....there was no urgency to rescue Blacks and democrats who voted CNN (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/LA/P/00/county.001.html#22071)
Kerry...152,610 78%
Bush.....42,847 22% ...for the same childish spite that was exposed in the outing of a CIA agent, whose husband had destroyed the whole rationale for war on an innocent nation.
Childish spite is all the excuse they need to murder thousands of innocent people. (who are only guilty of voting while black)
Did the White House ever publicly and officially admit its own negligence?
Its failure to include Orleans Parish in the:
The White House (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html)
For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
August 27, 2005
Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana
The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.
The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.
Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.
Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: FEMA (202) 646-4600.
PostmodernProphet
03-21-2008, 03:56 PM
nd you are an ignorant nazi waterboy hack for the Reich.
lol....you're so cute when you get pissed.....did you paste that from somewhere or did you spell it all by yourself.....
Come up with a better REASON why New Orleans was murdered, and I will consider it.
out of curiosity, was Orleans Parish treated any differently than the parishes listed in the memo?......
HumanBeast
03-21-2008, 07:41 PM
Bush is too wuss to attack Saudi Arabia directly. You need a resurrected Patton for that.
AlanC
03-22-2008, 04:57 AM
Okay, I will try this again...
The responsibility for Orleans Parish is the local officials of New Orleans. If they don't have the resources to deal with their emergency and with their own people, they make a request for resources to the State office of Emergency Managment or whatever it is in Lousiana.
The Feds cannot tell New Orleans to not use any bus they have and want to use. It simply doesn't work that way.
The Feds can and do name regional coordinators and if that was in place, that's fine.
But here is where you are losing track of it. The Feds cannot do a single thing without first having the State ask for it. They cannot dictate, they cannot tell them how to run it, they cannot take it over. They have to be asked. The state will determine the priorities for the delivery of supplies, vehicles whatever. The state, in this case would determine the priorities of all the parishes and how they would be helped, not FEMA.
Go Fish
03-22-2008, 02:02 PM
I still haven't found an explanation of why Clinton refused to spend any of that $92B "surplus" to shore up the levees.
The responsibility for Orleans Parish is the local officials of New Orleans. If they don't have the resources to deal with their emergency and with their own people, they make a request for resources to the State office of Emergency Managment or whatever it is in Lousiana.
The Feds cannot tell New Orleans to not use any bus they have and want to use. It simply doesn't work that way.
wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katr ina#_note-buses)
However, Governor Blanco has said FEMA had asked for school buses not to be used as they were not air-conditioned, and a potential risk of causing heat stroke, and that FEMA had informed them of more suitable buses that they would be providing.[60] Concerned over the slow reaction, Blanco sent in the state's fleet of 500 buses to aid in the evacuation process. It was not until late on August 31 that Blanco learned the FEMA buses were being sent from outside the state, and could not arrive in time.[60]
[60]: a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katr ina#_ref-buses_0) b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katr ina#_ref-buses_1) Millhollon, Michelle. "Blanco says feds pledged buses." (http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=109983) Baton Rouge Advocate. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baton_Rouge_Advocate) September 18, 2005. Retrieved on November 30, 2006.
out of curiosity, was Orleans Parish treated any differently than the parishes listed in the memo?...... I dont know. This thread is about New Orleans. We all know bush can chew gum and lie at the same time... but can he talk and chew gum at the same time? If you want to brag about how well cheneybush did in other towns like Gretna and Jefferson Parish....feel free to start a thread.
NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/10/national/nationalspecial/10emt.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)
Police in Suburbs Blocked Evacuees, Witnesses Report
<snip>
Police agencies to the south of New Orleans were so fearful of the crowds trying to leave the city after Hurricane Katrina that they sealed a crucial bridge over the Mississippi River and turned back hundreds of desperate evacuees, two paramedics who were in the crowd said.
The paramedics and two other witnesses said officers sometimes shot guns over the heads of fleeing people, who, instead of complying immediately with orders to leave the bridge, pleaded to be let through, the paramedics and two other witnesses said. The witnesses said they had been told by the New Orleans police to cross that same bridge because buses were waiting for them there.
Instead, a suburban police officer angrily ordered about 200 people to abandon an encampment between the highways near the bridge. The officer then confiscated their food and water, the four witnesses said. The incidents took place in the first days after the storm last week, they said.
"The police kept saying, 'We don't want another Superdome,' and 'This isn't New Orleans,' " said Larry Bradshaw, a San Francisco paramedic who was among those fleeing.
Arthur Lawson, chief of the Gretna, La., Police Department, confirmed that his officers, along with those from the Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office and the Crescent City Connection Police, sealed the bridge.
"There was no place for them to come on our side," Mr. Lawson said.
He said that he had been asked by reporters about officers threatening victims with guns or shooting over their heads, but he said that he had not yet asked his officers about that.
"As soon as things calm down, we will do an inquiry and find out what happened," he said.
more.... (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/10/national/nationalspecial/10emt.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)
I still haven't found an explanation of why Clinton refused to spend any of that $92B "surplus" to shore up the levees.
cheneybush had been in reckless control for 5 years.
But, I guess you cant expect him to accomplish anything domestically, when he has nations to plunder.
Yet, an official study/scenario "Hurricane Pam" was done a year before Katrina hit. The onus of the study was placed squarely on the incapable shoulders of the cheneybush admin:
BBC story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4331330.stm)
<snip>
Storm predictions
A year before Katrina, emergency teams from the area sat down with hurricane experts and other officials - including senior members of Fema, to run a disaster simulation called Hurricane Pam - which had selected New Orleans as the target.
They calculated the impact of 120mph winds on the city and simulated a massive storm surge which would break over the levees with potentially disastrous consequences for the city.
Ivor van Heerden, an expert on hurricanes from Louisiana State University, told the BBC that local officials had taken the predictions of the Pam exercise rather more seriously than their federal counterparts.
Three days after Katrina hit, President Bush appeared on national television to offer a possible explanation for the unfolding disaster, which was battering his own reputation.
"There is frustration, but I want people to know that there is a lot of help coming..." the president said.
"But these levees got breached and people were expecting a storm, but I don't think anyone anticipated a breach of the levees."
But Mr Brown says the problems were well-known.
"We understood exactly what was going on with the levees," he told the BBC. "And we knew that the levees were dangerous."
'Nobody's fault'
While the federal government is responsible for funding and building the levees, successive administrations have failed to address the challenge of building levees to withstand a category four or five storm like Katrina.
New Orleans was devastated by the impact of Hurricane Katrina
But one of the most keenly felt criticisms of the response to Katrina is the charge that Fema failed to make good on its promises of immediate aid.
Walter Maestri, head of emergency preparedness for Jefferson Parish, told the BBC that Fema officials promised emergency teams from the area that they would supply food, water, medical provisions, and assistance with transporting evacuees from the city - all within 48 hours of the emergency.
In the event, these emergency teams were left without the help they asked for.
Mr Brown now concedes that despite years of planning, the emergency response was not ready.
"The planning was put together... we did that exercise and had the conclusions in July last year, and then through our budget cycles have to decide what resources to apply to it, so we'd just started that process.
"It's nobody's fault that the hurricane hit when it did."
more... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4331330.stm)
I already posted the article about the Army Corps of Engineers accepting blame...... When will cheneybush EVER own the responsibility for their own failures?
PostmodernProphet
03-22-2008, 05:03 PM
I dont know. This thread is about New Orleans.
/shrugs.....you were the one that brought up Orleans Parrish.....why are the suddenly irrelevant?.....
This thread is about New Orleans.
If you want to talk about gov. response in other areas, feel free.
AlanC
03-22-2008, 06:17 PM
Dang,
Your quote from the good governor proves my point. First of all, she was doing everything she could to cover her incompetence in this entire incident and the second is that, even if true, its says FEMA "asked" that those buses not be used.
She and Nagy were in charge of the incident and she and Nagy could have used anything at their disposal to carry out their emergency plan. The trouble was, they didn't have an emergency plan and neither of them had any idea what they were doing.
As to police blocking any bridges out of the city, that too is a matter for local control. There is a command and control structure that is supposed to be in place for things like this and George Bush, FEMA, Brown and the Feds in general are not in it.
If cops did something wrong, first you ask the cops why they did it. Then you ask the mayor and then you ask the governor. Its not a Federal decision and it means nothing if your intent is to frame an allegation against the Federal government.
The Feds screw up enough stuff, but, this was 90% local. Its the reason you now have a Republican governor of Lousiana. God only knows what the residents of New Orleans were thinking when they re-elected Nagy as mayor.
You cling to that memo as though it were a smoking gun of some sort when the truth is, its meaningless in terms of how things played out in New Orleans.
Dang,
Your quote from the good governor proves my point. First of all, she was doing everything she could to cover her incompetence in this entire incident and the second is that, even if true, its says FEMA "asked" that those buses not be used. It doesnt prove your point. If she had NOT followed that suggestion, SHE would be liable for heat strokes and such. She had NO WAY of KNOWING that FEMA was going to take their sweet assed time getting the promised busses there.
She and Nagy were in charge of the incident and she and Nagy could have used anything at their disposal to carry out their emergency plan. The trouble was, they didn't have an emergency plan and neither of them had any idea what they were doing.
She DID use 500 busses, it wasnt enough. They did have emergency plans.... I am POSITIVE those plans did NOT include FEMA coming in and CUTTING OFF all 911 emergency lines at the switchboard. FEMA didnt just unplug those wires either....they CUT THE WIRES!!
Thats murder 1. As far as Im concerned.
As to police blocking any bridges out of the city, that too is a matter for local control. There is a command and control structure that is supposed to be in place for things like this and George Bush, FEMA, Brown and the Feds in general are not in it.I hope those pigs get shot when they are off duty.
As for the Feds, I dont think ANYONE expects an ounce of benevolence from the chenybush machine anymore. Same people who brought you abu ghraib and let hijackers own our skys on 911 for 2 hours.
If cops did something wrong, first you ask the cops why they did it. Then you ask the mayor and then you ask the governor. Its not a Federal decision and it means nothing if your intent is to frame an allegation against the Federal government. If you go back and look, I only brought that up to say he could start another thread if he wants to talk about outher parishes.
The Feds screw up enough stuff, but, this was 90% local. Its the reason you now have a Republican governor of Lousiana. God only knows what the residents of New Orleans were thinking when they re-elected Nagy as mayor. When the Governor declared/reported a state of emergency to DC she put the fed in command.
You cling to that memo as though it were a smoking gun of some sort when the truth is, its meaningless in terms of how things played out in New Orleans.What memo? The one that excluded the most densly populated parish in the path of the storm? The one that voted 78% against cheneybush? The parish that took the worst hit? Sure.... maybe they just FOGOT to include Orleans Parish....you have a right to be wrong...but thats your right!
It was not negligence. It was with malice aforethought, that Orleans parish was excluded on the list AND in reality.
Levee Sabotage?
They are capable of that.
One diver could plant a charge at each point.
Explosions were heard.
Why would they try to rescue to a town they just tried to destroy?
That would explain it. Its speculation, but that would explain it.
PostmodernProphet
03-22-2008, 07:31 PM
What memo? The one that excluded the most densly populated parish in the path of the storm?
since you have decided to bring up Orleans Parrish again I will repeat the question you refused to answer the last time....was Orleans Parrish treated any differently than any other parish in the path of the storm?
FEMA didnt just unplug those wires either....they CUT THE WIRES!!
link please.....
Its the reason you now have a Republican governor of Lousiana.What, because they killed all the democrats and rigged the rest of the votes?
Elections prove NOTHING.
They are a charade, an opiate of the masses. Elections are decided at the tabulator. Surely you know that by NOW?
AlanC
03-22-2008, 07:58 PM
I hope those pigs get shot when they are off duty.
Based on this comment, I won't be relplying to this thread anymore.
You have been given facts and you choose to ignore them or not discuss them.
Your rant is based on emotion, not fact. Have a nice day. Since I am involved in this thread I will let someone else move it to FP where it belongs.
Those pigs forbid escape from danger.
That bridge is FEDERAL PROPERTY it doesnt belong to a handful of KKK redneck nazis.
It belongs to AMERICANS.
They cant refuse passage to ANYONE.
I refuted your "facts" and YOU LOST the argument.
What if your house was on fire?
Do you support police who come along and nail your doors shut with you and your family inside?
Wouldnt that be an abuse of power?
Dont cops have to swear an oath....you know, like doctors have the Hippocratic Oath, to do no harm?
Go Fish
03-23-2008, 04:45 AM
What if your house was on fire?
Do you support police who come along and nail your doors shut with you and your family inside?
Wouldnt that be an abuse of power?
Dont cops have to swear an oath....you know, like doctors have the Hippocratic Oath, to do no harm?
Completely unrelated to the OP. One more time and I'll report your ass. Stay on topic or all Hell is gonn'a break loose! :dork:
Completely unrelated to the OP. One more time and I'll report your ass. Stay on topic or all Hell is gonn'a break loose! :dork:
Hey, report AlanC hes the one that brought up the pigs on the bridge again. I was just answering him. So you can shove your petty threats up your ass.
BTW, it is "on topic"...
If the levees hadnt exploded, the people wouldnt need to escape the city and the KKK nazi pigs wouldnt be shooting at people who happened to be black and were trying to flee the floods over the bridge into a white suburb.
Those fuckin bigots thought they owned the bridge. Decided to make it a whites only bridge.
What memo? The one that excluded the most densly populated parish in the path of the storm?
since you have decided to bring up Orleans Parrish again I will repeat the question you refused to answer the last time....was Orleans Parrish treated any differently than any other parish in the path of the storm?I already answered that. The other parishes were not affected the way New Orleans was.
If you want to make that comparison the onus is on YOU. Its your claim. You do your own damned homework.
FEMA didnt just unplug those wires either....they CUT THE WIRES!! link please.....
The president of Jefferson Parish in New Orleans, Aaron Broussard. :Meet the Press (http://thinkprogress.org/2005/09/04/worst-abandonments/)
<snip>
Yesterday — yesterday — FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards and said no one is getting near these lines…(This is the kind of help FEMA brought to Jefferson Parish)
In the future, if I miss a post directed at me, you can just pm me... no need for a neg rep. I just didnt see it.
PostmodernProphet
03-23-2008, 05:49 PM
your source is Aaron Broussard?....he's the guy who gave us the story about calling Momma every night telling her someone was coming until she died, except she actually died four days before the calls supposedly started.....
Do you have a source disproving the man? Lets see it!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Broussard
Subsequent news reports identified the son in the story as Tom Rodrigue, Jefferson Parish's emergency services director. Rodrigue's 92-year-old mother, Eva, lived in the St. Rita's nursing home.[2] It appears from a CNN interview with Rodrigue that he made phonecalls to the nursing home on Saturday, August 27, 2005, and on Sunday, August 28, 2005, urging that the home be evacuated.[3] That evacuation did not take place, and at least 30 residents of the nursing home drowned on Monday, August 29, 2005.[4]
Former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury on New Orleans: "Americans Are Being Brainwashed"
Mentality is "like that of the brown shirts that followed Hitler"
Steve Watson/Alex Jones | September 6 2005 (http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/Sept05/060905brainwashed.htm)
Paul Craig Roberts has held a number of academic appointments and has contributed to numerous scholarly publications. He served as Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Regan administration.
<snip>
Roberts agreed that FEMA has deliberately withheld aid, and cut emergency communication lines, and automatically made the crisis look worse in order to empower the image of a police state emerging to "save the day".
Cant dispute the facts?....
Shoot the messenger, as a last resort
Wouldnt the Sheriff who repaired the cut emergency lines, DENY that it ever happened?
Jefferson Parish Sheriff Harry Lee doesnt seem very shy (http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2001-05-15/news_scut2.html)
OK, YOUR story appears to be a mistake on his part.... but that was YOUR STORY....I did not bring that incident up. Because he made one mistake doesnt mean everything he says is a mistake:
Broussard's account of that incident was subsequently shown to be inaccurate, in that the long sequence of telephone calls to the mother that he described as having taken place in the aftermath of the hurricane could not have happened, since she apparently drowned before the dates in question. In an appearance on Meet the Press three weeks later, Broussard was questioned about his account. He said that the story had been relayed to him by his staff, and that he had chosen not to ask his emergency manager for the exact circumstances of her death.
PostmodernProphet
03-23-2008, 07:48 PM
Wouldnt the Sheriff who repaired the cut emergency lines, DENY that it ever happened?
Jefferson Parish Sheriff Harry Lee doesnt seem very shy
I don't know...I have never seen anywhere that Sheriff Harry Lee said it happened.....just a couple of blowhards, including some guy who runs an organization called "Impeach Bush Now".....
But if the president of my parish (mayor) had said I had repaired emergency lines cut by FEMA... I would be outraged if I had NOT done such thing.....and FEMA had not done such a thing.
Did Chertoff deny this had happened? Thats quite a charge.
PostmodernProphet
03-24-2008, 11:03 AM
Did Chertoff deny this had happened? Thats quite a charge
/shrugs....I don't know if Chertoff has even heard it's been alleged......this thread was the first that I had heard of it.....as far as I know, Chertoff isn't even a member here.....
Thats crap. EVERYONE was talking about it when it happened. NOBODY in the government watches "Meet the Press"?
You dont see any reason why a gazillion people would not be asking him about it?
B.S.
~
I just found the "Meet the Press" transcipt.
Chertoff was interviewed RIGHT BEFORE Jefferson Parish President, Broussard.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/
You dont think Chertoff stuck around to listen to what they might say about him? Our that he at least got the tape of the show to vet it for release?
Chertoff did it. He hindered rescue efforts at every turn. Fuckin Nazi.
PostmodernProphet
03-24-2008, 05:03 PM
EVERYONE was talking about it when it happened.
I disagree....I spend a lot of time on political boards....I have argued with a lot of conspiracy theorists......this is the first time I have ever heard it mentioned.......
Did you read the other words I posted?
Chertoff heard it. There is ZERO doubt.
Yet he did not refute it.
PostmodernProphet
03-24-2008, 07:33 PM
Did you read the other words I posted?
yes, didn't see anything I would buy at a Dollar General.....
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