Nazism vs. communism

[dsanthony]

What were the benefits of forcing Germany to submit to unconditional surrender during ww2? When you count the cost in lives and property, was it really worth defeating Hitler totally, just to turn all of Eastern Europe over to the Soviets?

How would history have unfolded if the US and UK had made peace with Hitler in 1944?

[PittsburghAfterDark]

If we had accepted a termed surrender or seperate peace with Nazi Germany we would have ended up having to fight the Russians. We would have had to probably re-arm the Wermacht, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine and gone on an offensive to Moscow.

There's no way the Russians would have not gone to war with us immediately for a seperate peace.

[dsanthony]

Possibly. But, with the removal of the 2nd front, Hitler's army would have been better able to combat Stalin's army.

I wasn't really looking for a tactical answer, though. I was looking at the situation politically. If Hitler had stayed in power in Germany, what would the 40's - 80's have looked like.

[bobbylien]

Hitler's army was completely destroyed after WW2. Hitler was just as bad as Stalin, they were a lot alike really. They both wanted power. You must also factor in how many soldiers would have died in a war versus the Soviet Union. It would have been terrible and as soon as the war against Russia was over, we would have had to deal with Hitler again.

Hitler's attack on Russia before securing the rest of europe was absolutely stupid. He should have taken the UK first.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Stalin was worse than Hitler.

Yes, the Communist progressives were worse than the Socialist progressives.

[Labrocca]

Well looking at Hitlers actions before the war even began it wasn't good. I am sure it would have been worse had we given him room to arm again. The benefit of having Hitler surrender was the end of the war. I think our mistake was not going after Russia next and taking positions all over Eastern Europe.

[bobbylien]

Stalin was worse than Hitler.

How so? Both amassed huge armies and planned to conquer europe. Both killed millions of people, Hitler only killed less because he didn't have the time to kill more. Both of these leaders used the ideas of communism and socialism to gain power then began ruling like the facist dictators they were. It was all about power for hitler and stalin.

[bobbylien]

Well looking at Hitlers actions before the war even began it wasn't good. I am sure it would have been worse had we given him room to arm again. The benefit of having Hitler surrender was the end of the war. I think our mistake was not going after Russia next and taking positions all over Eastern Europe.

Do you have any idea how powerfull Russia was after WW2, who is to say we would have even been able to win that war.

[dsanthony]

Well looking at Hitlers actions before the war even began it wasn't good. I am sure it would have been worse had we given him room to arm again.Â*Â*The benefit of having Hitler surrender was the end of the war.Â*Â*I think our mistake was not going after Russia next and taking positions all over Eastern Europe.


Both Stalin and Hitler were mass murderers. But, to be honest, I doubt that everyday life under Nazi rule for most people was much worse than everyday life under Stalin.

My point is that, at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives, we forced Germany to submit to unconditional surrender--and yet the people of Eastern Europe were as bad off as they were under Hitler.

[Nathan Brazil]

I'm missing something here. I don't recall Herr Schickelgruber suing the Allies for peace, not at any time.

That being the case, how did the Allies "force" an unconditional surrender on the Germans?

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Do you have any idea how powerfull Russia was after WW2, who is to say we would have even been able to win that war.


We had something known as the atomic bomb the Russians didn't and no PC sensibilities that would have prevented us from using it.

[Rider]

Bobbylien wrote "Hitler's attack on Russia before securing the rest of europe was absolutely stupid. He should have taken the UK first."

Maybe not- records opened since the collapse of the USSR show that Stalin was planning to attack Germany without warning.

[bobbylien]

We had something known as the atomic bomb the Russians didn't and no PC sensibilities that would have prevented us from using it.

I don't consider killing more people than Stalin did a more reasonable solution.

[bobbylien]

Maybe not- records opened since the collapse of the USSR show that Stalin was planning to attack Germany without warning.

Interesting, I've never read anything about that.

[dsanthony]

I'm missing something here.Â*Â*I don't recall Herr Schickelgruber suing the Allies for peace, not at any time.

That being the case, how did the Allies "force" an unconditional surrender on the Germans?Â*Â*




Hess visited England secretly to discuss peace terms. There were other low level attempts to negotiate. The Allies adamantly refused to negotiate, insisting on unconditional surrender.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

When Hitler died Heinrich Himmler tried to make a peace with the British and Americans to save his skin and what was left of Germany from the Russians.

He was rebuffed.

Hess going to England was an individual attempt to make peace. He was Deputy Furher at the time and when news of his arriving in England was found out by Hitler he went ballistic. It was not authorized as an official overture.

Interestingly enough Rudolph Hess was one of if not the last prisoner held in the Tower of London.

[Rider]

I thought that Hess pretty much flew to England to save his skin.

[Nitrus]

Interestingly enough Rudolph Hess was one of if not the last prisoner held in the Tower of London.


Yes.. he was the last....

I believe, this is what happend... (quoted from his biography)

Hess was considered mentally unstable and this was reflected in his decision on 10th May, 1941, to fly a Me 110 to Scotland with the intention of having a meeting with the Duke of Hamilton. Hess hoped that Hamilton would arrange for him to meet George VI. Hess believed he could persuade the king to sack Winston Churchill and to make peace with Germany in order to join forces against the Soviet Union.

When he heard the news Adolf Hitler was quick to issue a statement pointing out that "Hess did not fly in my name." Albert Speer, who was with Hitler when he heard the news, later reported that "what bothered him was the Churchill might use the incident to pretend to Germany's allies that Hitler was extending a peace feeler."

Hess was kept in the Tower of London until being sent to face charges at the Nuremberg War Crimes Trial. He was found guilty of actively supporting preparations for war and in participating in the aggression against Czechoslovakia and Poland.

Rudolf Hess was sentenced to life and was still in Spandau Prison when he was found dead on 17th August, 1987. Officially he committed suicide but grave doubts have been raised about the possibility of a 93 man in his state of health being able to hang himself with an electrical extension cord without help from someone else.

[Nathan Brazil]

When Hitler died Heinrich Himmler tried to make a peace with the British and Americans to save his skin and what was left of Germany from the Russians.

He was rebuffed.

Hess going to England was an individual attempt to make peace.Â*Â*He was Deputy Furher at the time and when news of his arriving in England was found out by Hitler he went ballistic.Â*Â*It was not authorized as an official overture.

Interestingly enough Rudolph Hess was one of if not the last prisoner held in the Tower of London.


Oh, that Himmler thing. Why should the Allies grant concessions when the war was going to be won in a few days anyway? Europe was already trashed, the division of the spoils was already defined, and it was only a matter of time, a very short time, too, before the end came.

As for Rudy, no one took him seriourly, anyway, and like you said, it wasn't official. He was just a loon.

It's not like Japan, in which the United States faced up to five million casualties on the beaches of Honshu to effect an invasion. Letting the Japs keep Hirohito as an figurehead emperor was a small thing, indeed.