A glaring double standard

[AlonzoMourning23]

Guess what they call powerful and strong women who support Barack Obama? Obamazons. And what about powerful women who support Hillary Clinton? In Hillaryland, they're probably too damn tired, mystified and disappointed to care all that much about cutesy names.

A week before the Texas and Ohio primaries, the political obituaries are already being prepared – perhaps still prematurely – on Ms. Clinton's presidential bid.

I wonder if they will include the ugly truth that sexism has played a disturbing role in this riveting primary campaign.

There are certainly legitimate reasons not to like Ms. Clinton, but that doesn't explain the very different treatment she has received in the media. While grown media men and women have swooned over Mr. Obama, confessing that he is so charismatic he gives them goosebumps, Ms. Clinton has been mocked, trivialized and denigrated in a way that should give every woman pause.

Her laugh is a “cackle.” Her daughter Chelsea is being “pimped out.” She is only there because of her husband. She is “inauthentic” and manipulative, especially that time she cried in New Hampshire (and she didn't actually cry, by the way, even though anti-Clinton forces quickly had T-shirts made that said “Cry Baby” on them.)

When Ms. Clinton wasn't very occasionally showing her soft side, she was characterized as grating and aggressive. When she demonstrated how much she knew about so many issues, she was trying too hard to be “the smartest girl in the room.”

Young women rushed to loftily disassociate their perky post-feminist selves from a middle-aged female presidential candidate who is probably the most assured and knowledgeable woman any of them has ever seen running for high public office.

MSNBC's Chris Matthews even called Ms. Clinton an “uppity woman.” Imagine any commentator calling Mr. Obama an “uppity black” and keeping his job.

Author and commentator Barbara Ehrenreich also took a gratuitously nasty swipe in the Huffington Post at Ms. Clinton's platform style: “The frozen smile has to go, too, along with the [metronomic] nodding, which sometimes goes on long enough to suggest a placement within the autism spectrum.” Oh, come on.

And Slate.com's female commentators merrily dissected Ms. Clinton's female factor, ostensibly unaware of the self-hatred it revealed: “One of Hillary Clinton's great weaknesses as a candidate is that – fair or not – she seems so completely familiar to us. Not just because she's been around for years, but because the characteristics for which she's inevitably criticized are themselves these centuries-old archetypes: the castrating shrew, the righteous scold, the manipulative weeper …”

After the debate last week, Mr. Obama was described as “looking very presidential” or “like a Roman senator” while Ms. Clinton was mocked for wearing a pantsuit with yellow stripes on the jacket that made her look like “a modern major-general” or “a guest star on Star Trek: The Next Generation.”

To me, she looked as she always did, both polished and strong.

And besides, how is the first serious female contender for the most powerful office on Earth supposed to look or laugh or show emotion or compete?

In a blistering commentary that many women forwarded to each other, feminist author Robin Morgan decried some of the most egregious sexism, including former Nixonite Roger Stone's new Hillary-hating group, “Citizens United Not Timid” (examine the capital letters); John McCain answering “How do we beat the bitch?” with “Excellent question!”; and “the most intimately violent T-shirts in election history, including one with the murderous slogan ‘If only Hillary had married O.J. instead!'”

Ms. Morgan wrote: “This is not just Hillary-hating. This is sociopathic woman-hating.”

Of course, many commentators, male and female, have written admiringly about Ms. Clinton, endorsing her outright as The New York Times did, or suggesting that, however flawed, she is clearly the best-qualified candidate to be U.S. president.

And Mr. Obama is a supple and inspiring politician who has run an astonishing campaign. It is Hillary's bad luck (she who hasn't had much luck with men) to have been opposed by this juggernaut after she launched her once-thought-to-be unassailable bid for the Democratic nomination.

On one particularly bad day, The New York Times's Maureen Dowd weighed in with one comedian's joke about Mr. Obama winning every recent primary: “Hillary says it's not fair, because they're being held in February, and February is Black History Month. And unfortunately for Hillary, there's no White Bitch Month.”

Well, here's a thought: Perhaps every day is white bitch month for powerful women, and every ambitious and successful woman who is honest with herself and others knows this: As she gets up each morning and slaps on her knee-highs and her pantsuit and goes into the office to prove – yet again – that she is the smartest and most capable person there, she too can quickly engender the same kind of hate that Ms. Clinton has put up with on the campaign trail. Just by being herself.

It's all about the narrowness of roles for women, or, as Ms. Clinton herself said in a New Yorker interview, “I think that the world is only beginning to recognize that women should be permitted the same range of leadership styles that we permit men.”

Whatever happens next week or beyond, and even if Ms. Clinton manages to get the nomination, this sexism should be named and discussed for what it is.

Which doesn't mean I think every Hillary joke making the rounds is sexist. I laughed out loud at this one: Chelsea Clinton goes up to a returning American soldier and says, “What do you fear the most?” And he says: “Osama, Obama, yo' mama.”

Well, at least she was only the third most scary item on his list.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080226.wltimson26/BNStory/lifeMain/home[/quote]

[Elrathin]

Zo, I can't disagree with you that some are nitpicking Hillary to death on silly issues. I don't know if it is sexism that is to blame or whether it is just Hillary that some want to tarnish.

I do know some Hillary supporters are playing the feminist card themselves in trying to get people to vote for her. My Aunt, unfortunately, is one of them. She insists that women should vote for Hillary in support of a woman president. Not the issues, not her stances, but because she is a woman.

Now, maybe some of that has bleed into the mainstream and it is attacking Hillary with it I don't know, but there is no doubt there are many women that think she should be president because she is a woman.

Does that excuse straight out sexism? No, of course not.

[Wndrtch]

I think part of Hillary's problem, is that she has always been portrayed as this tough-as-nails woman, yet lately seems to be grabbing the victum angle.

Poor me, I get the first question all the time.

Poor me, they make fun of my ass.

Poor me, the media is asking me tough questions.

Poor me, my opponent is sending out inaccurate flyers about my record.

A tear here, and another over there. Boo hoo hoo!

[preservanation]

I hope this isn't off the mark, but I never really saw any of what Hillary's campaign said or did as being racist or playing the card against Obama.

Let me clarify that; Those things that the media keyed on, ie; "Fairytale", "Jackson" in NC. That was it right?
Media was begging for a riot like Watts, sells copy.
Since they weren't getting one, is it possible they ginned one up?

Things like what Rendell said about Penn. voters was a different thing.
That was playing to white bias.

[lily]

I think part of Hillary's problem, is that she has always been portrayed as this tough-as-nails woman, yet lately seems to be grabbing the victum angle.

Poor me, I get the first question all the time.

Poor me, they make fun of my ass.

Poor me, the media is asking me tough questions.

Poor me, my opponent is sending out inaccurate flyers about my record.

A tear here, and another over there. Boo hoo hoo!


Mark this day on the calandar Wndrtch........we agree. That tear, got her an un-expected win. Too bad she used it too soon. McCain's scandal, got him the supoort from the Right that he was lacking, including Limbaugh..........but somehow all the problems the president or the candidates are having is the media's fault and not the person making the news.

[Go Fish]

And if Barak Obama is elected, it will be an Obamanation.[hr]

I think part of Hillary's problem, is that she has always been portrayed as this tough-as-nails woman, yet lately seems to be grabbing the victum angle.

Poor me, I get the first question all the time.

Poor me, they make fun of my ass.

Poor me, the media is asking me tough questions.

Poor me, my opponent is sending out inaccurate flyers about my record.

A tear here, and another over there. Boo hoo hoo!


Mark this day on the calandar Wndrtch........we agree. That tear, got her an un-expected win. Too bad she used it too soon. McCain's scandal, got him the supoort from the Right that he was lacking, including Limbaugh..........but somehow all the problems the president or the candidates are having is the media's fault and not the person making the news.


McCain had a "scandal"? Do tell! Seriously, what was it about?

[Elrathin]

McCain had a "scandal"? Do tell! Seriously, what was it about?


The one where they said he slept with a lobbyist.

BTW, McCain doesn't need to have done that for it to be a scandal. Not all scandals are true, but they are scandals none the less.

[Pookie]

He supposedly slept with a lobbyist, I believe, Fish.
Purrs,
Pookie

[AlonzoMourning23]

McCain had a "scandal"? Do tell! Seriously, what was it about?


The one where they said he slept with a lobbyist.

BTW, McCain doesn't need to have done that for it to be a scandal. Not all scandals are true, but they are scandals none the less.


Well, it does fit with his history. Just ask him where he found his wife.

[AnnEsthesia]

You expect her to get a fair shake? She is not given the proper respect, ever. She is always "Hillary", never Senator Clinton.

[preservanation]

McCain had a "scandal"? Do tell! Seriously, what was it about?


The one where they said he slept with a lobbyist.

BTW, McCain doesn't need to have done that for it to be a scandal. Not all scandals are true, but they are scandals none the less.


Well, it does fit with his history. Just ask him where he found his wife.
This is not true.
And you guys wonder why I'm aghast when you argue facts which you just made up along the way.

[piratemonkey]

This is not true.
And you guys wonder why I'm aghast when you argue facts which you just made up along the way.


What's not true?

The fact that he cheated on his disabled wife with an heiress and ended up marrying her very shortly after the divorce?

It is, indeed, true. I lived in Arizona when this happened and it was huge in the Arizona Republic, a conservative newspaper.

He doesn't even deny it...

[lily]

You expect her to get a fair shake? She is not given the proper respect, ever. She is always "Hillary", never Senator Clinton.



You expect her to get a fair shake? She is not given the proper respect, ever. She is always "Hillary", never Senator Clinton.


I'm not sure what this has to do with it. I don't see many people saying President Bush, or Senator Obama. The only one I hear anyone using their title on is Senator McCain.

[AlonzoMourning23]

McCain had a "scandal"? Do tell! Seriously, what was it about?


The one where they said he slept with a lobbyist.

BTW, McCain doesn't need to have done that for it to be a scandal. Not all scandals are true, but they are scandals none the less.


Well, it does fit with his history. Just ask him where he found his wife.
This is not true.
And you guys wonder why I'm aghast when you argue facts which you just made up along the way.


You do realize he cheated on his first wife, right?

[AnnEsthesia]

You expect her to get a fair shake? She is not given the proper respect, ever. She is always "Hillary", never Senator Clinton.



You expect her to get a fair shake? She is not given the proper respect, ever. She is always "Hillary", never Senator Clinton.


I'm not sure what this has to do with it. I don't see many people saying President Bush, or Senator Obama. The only one I hear anyone using their title on is Senator McCain.


Yet, they at least get their first *AND* Second name mentioned. Just listen to the news.. blah blah McCain... blah blah Obama... blah blah Hillary.

Because she is a woman, they give her lest respect.

[lily]

::shrug:: I dont' see it.

[BoogyMan]

Yet, they at least get their first *AND* Second name mentioned. Just listen to the news.. blah blah McCain... blah blah Obama... blah blah Hillary.

Because she is a woman, they give her lest respect.


I don't know that there is enough information out there to be able to assign it to Clinton being a female. She has a good sized load of baggage that goes along with her and I would be more likely to assign it to that than I would her gender.

[AnnEsthesia]

I don't know. I don't here any news reports that only talk about "Bill" or "George" or "John".

[lily]

I don't know. I don't here any news reports that only talk about "Bill" or "George" or "John".



That would be because if you called her Clinton, most people would think you were talking about Bill.

[Easy90]

"Arizona Republic, a conservative newspaper."
Pirate M

Well, if you lived in AZ, and you think the Arizona Republic is a "conservative newspaper" ....you have no idea what you're talking about.

[bishop]

two words: poor hillary.

:)

[Deadshot]

I remember back when Bush trashed McCain. He even went so far as to attack McCain on his stance with Veterans.

Hillary and Obama will kiss and make up, no matter who wins....or at least they'll kiss and make up in public.

[AlanC]

You can be certain of two things. If at any point Hillary loses and has to drop out or loses the general election, it will be said that it happened because the country is basically sexist.

If the same thing happens to Obama, it will be said that it happened because too many Americans are still racists.

So by the end of this year we will be one, or the other, or both. I wonder if McCain loses if that means were are just prejudiced against old people?

The only thing that is certain, is that it will never be said that Clinto or Obama lost because they had the wrong programs, the wrong strategy, the wrong message, etc.....It will have to be the fault of those who were too closed minded to vote for them.

[Wndrtch]

I think part of Hillary's problem, is that she has always been portrayed as this tough-as-nails woman, yet lately seems to be grabbing the victum angle.

Poor me, I get the first question all the time.

Poor me, they make fun of my ass.

Poor me, the media is asking me tough questions.

Poor me, my opponent is sending out inaccurate flyers about my record.

A tear here, and another over there. Boo hoo hoo!


Mark this day on the calandar Wndrtch........we agree. That tear, got her an un-expected win. Too bad she used it too soon. McCain's scandal, got him the supoort from the Right that he was lacking, including Limbaugh..........but somehow all the problems the president or the candidates are having is the media's fault and not the person making the news.


:love:

I've said before, that it is not that we object to a woman President, it's that we object to THIS woman being President.

We'll part ways on this next statement, but I was hoping Condi Rice would get into the race. You may not like that she is Conservative, or that she is in this Administration, but that woman is completely qualified to be POTUS, more so than any of the remaining candidates.
She's also a real feminist, not a pretend feminist like Hillary. She got to where she is because of her OWN efforts and accomplishments, not those of her husband. (To this day, I don't think she even dates).

She's acedemically accomplished:

In 1974, she graduated with a BS degree in Political Science from The University of Denver. She was just 19 yro. In 1975, she got her Masters degree in PS, from Notre Dame. In 1981, at the age of 26, she received her Ph.D. in Political Science from the Graduate School of International Studies at Denver.

She has experience at managing large budgets:

Rice was hired by Stanford University as an Assistant Professor in Political Science (1981–1987). She was granted tenure and promoted, first to Associate Professor (1987–1993), and then to Provost, the chief budget and academic officer of the university (1993–1999), and full Professor (1993–present). Rice was the first female, first minority, and youngest Provost at Stanford. She was also named a Senior Fellow of the Institute for International Studies, and a Senior Fellow (by courtesy) of the Hoover Institution.

As Stanford's Provost, Rice was responsible for managing the university's multi-billion dollar budget. The school at that time was running a deficit of $20 million. When Rice took office, she promised that the budget deficit would be balanced within "two years." Coit Blacker, Stanford's deputy director of the Institute for International Studies, said there "was a sort of conventional wisdom that said it couldn't be done ... that [the deficit] was structural, that we just had to live with it." Two years later, Rice announced that the deficit had been eliminated and the university was holding a record surplus of over $14.5 million.

She has "Boardroom" experience:

She also served on the board of directors for the Carnegie Corporation, the Charles Schwab Corporation, the Chevron Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the Rand Corporation, the Transamerica Corporation, and other organizations.

She has experience working for two US Presidents, legitimately:

Rice is the first black woman, second African American (after Colin Powell, who served before her from 2001 to 2005), and second woman (after Madeleine Albright who served from 1997 to 2001) to serve as Secretary of State. Rice was President Bush's National Security Advisor during his first term. During the administration of George H.W. Bush, Rice also served as the Soviet and East European Affairs Advisor during the dissolution of the Soviet Union and German reunification.

She was even a Democrat, before she woke-up:

Rice was a Democrat until 1982 when she changed her political affiliation to Republican after growing averse to former President Jimmy Carter's foreign policy. She also cited influence from her father, John Wesley, in this decision, who himself switched from Democrat to Republican after being denied voting registration by the Democratic registrar. In her words to the 2000 Republican National Convention, "My father joined our party because the Democrats in Jim Crow Alabama of 1952 would not register him to vote. The Republicans did."

However, despite her party switch, Rice served as foreign policy advisor to the presidential campaign of Democratic U.S. Senator Gary Hart of Colorado during the 1984 primaries.

And, she's HOT!!

http://www.extrememortman.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/Condoleezza%20Rice%20boots%202.jpg

I could go on and on, but don't have enough room for it in these posts. But check out some of her other accomplishment, if you have the courage to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condoleezza_Rice

[Deadshot]

Let me add, FUCK! old people...then literally, FUCK! women...:nana:

[preservanation]

Wndrtch,
Truer words have not been spoken.
Condi's reluctance to get into the race, in my eyes, just reinforces her credentials as the most qualified.

I hope she fulfills her dream to be the NFL Comish.
Rice would make a good...*ahem*...a Great one!

[Wndrtch]

Let me add, f_ck! old people...then literally, f_ck! women...:nana:


Huh?!

Not sure what you're saying here. You want to fcuk old women?

[Deadshot]

Let me add, f_ck! old people...then literally, f_ck! women...:nana:


Huh?!

Not sure what you're saying here. You want to fcuk old women?


Nah, I was responding to AlanC. Older women...:sick:

[Wndrtch]

Wndrtch,
Truer words have not been spoken.
Condi's reluctance to get into the race, in my eyes, just reinforces her credentials as the most qualified.

I hope she fulfills her dream to be the NFL Comish.
Rice would make a good...*ahem*...a Great one!


I'd love to see a side-by-side of her credentials, compared to Hillary's, ehem, "credentials". I can gauruntee that Condi won't be complaining about the questioning order, or crying for the sympathy vote. Nor will she be asked if she can control her husband.

[lily]

We'll part ways on this next statement, but I was hoping Condi Rice would get into the race. You may not like that she is Conservative, or that she is in this Administration, but that woman is completely qualified to be POTUS, more so than any of the remaining candidates.
She's also a real feminist, not a pretend feminist like Hillary. She got to where she is because of her OWN efforts and accomplishments, not those of her husband. (To this day, I don't think she even dates).

You're not going to get rid of me that easily, Wnd. I happen to think Condi is a very accomplished woman.....but the timing is not right. America is already arguing wheter we are ready for a black or a woman for president......being black and a woman.....no way. She also has this administration's baggage to carry, no matter the good she has done, some of which those already dismissed from this administration totally sabatoged.

She does have the creditials, just as Richarson had. Here's hoping whoever wins the elections uses one or the other.

[Wndrtch]

You're not going to get rid of me that easily, Wnd. I happen to think Condi is a very accomplished woman.....but the timing is not right. America is already arguing wheter we are ready for a black or a woman for president......being black and a woman.....no way. She also has this administration's baggage to carry, no matter the good she has done, some of which those already dismissed from this administration totally sabatoged.

I think you're right. She needs to put some distance inbetween herself and G.W. The climate is such, that if you even have a "G" in your name, you'll be pelted with tomatoes.

She does have the creditials, just as Richarson had. Here's hoping whoever wins the elections uses one or the other.


Are there four planets in alignment or something?

I felt for a while that Richards was the ONLY qualified candidate on the Dem side. I like him, and would have been OK with a Richards Administration. I still would have bashed his policies (most likely), but at least I would feel comfortable that we had a reasonably competant guy at the helm.

[preservanation]

America is already arguing wheter we are ready for a black or a woman for president......being black and a woman.....no way.
That's the trump card.
If she owned a Prius that would be a hat-trick.
There would be nothing the Dems could attack Condi on.

All this dissension over race and sex in this election has so far emanated from the left.

[lily]

Are there four planets in alignment or something?

Scary ain't it?[hr]


All this dissension over race and sex in this election has so far emanated from the left.


If you say so, preservation, I'm not going to argue.....although I think you're wrong. My powers aren't stong enough. I can agree with only one Republican at a time.

[Wndrtch]

Are there four planets in alignment or something?

Scary ain't it?[hr]


All this dissension over race and sex in this election has so far emanated from the left.


If you say so, preservation, I'm not going to argue.....although I think you're wrong. My powers aren't stong enough. I can agree with only one Republican at a time.






I'm honored!

Are they going to take away my members card now?

[gambit88]

Nobody is sexist against Hillary Clinton. She lost/is losing because she ran a horrible campaign that didnt have a consistent message, didnt plan for any contests past feb 5th, and ran too far to the right for a democratic primary.

[Wndrtch]

Nobody is sexist against Hillary Clinton. She lost/is losing because she ran a horrible campaign that didnt have a consistent message, didnt plan for any contests past feb 5th, and ran too far to the right for a democratic primary.


I don't think her campaign was horrible. I think it was more an issue of personalities. Barak has one, and she doesn't (well, she does, but it's hard-core). Truth be told, Barak's personality is much like Bill Clinton, without the stains and used condoms (wait, it might be just a rumor that he used condoms. I wouldn't want to ruin the guy's rep).