Prosecutors call Calif. shooting a hate crime

[lily]

Hate crime, or crime of hate? (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23170485/)

Prosecutors call Calif. shooting a hate crime
Classmates say victim sometimes wore makeup, feminine attire


updated 45 minutes ago
OXNARD, Calif. - Prosecutors on Thursday charged a 14-year-old boy with
attempted murder and said he committed a hate crime in the classroom
shooting of an eighth-grader who was declared brain dead.

Prosecutors would not say why they filed a hate-crime enhancement with the
attempted murder count, but several classmates said the 15-year-old victim,
Lawrence King, sometimes wore makeup, high heels and other feminine attire.

Prosecutors want the suspect tried as an adult and expect to upgrade the
charges after King is taken off a ventilator for organ donation.



"It is inevitable that this is going to become a murder case," Ventura
County prosecutor Maeve Fox said.

King was shot in the head Tuesday morning during a class at E.O. Green
Junior High in Oxnard, police said. More than 20 other students were in the
room at the time.

Fox said she could not discuss the facts behind the allegation of a hate
crime because those details of the case have not been publicly disclosed.
Oxnard police have not specified a motive but said there appeared to be a
personal dispute between the two.

King sometimes came to school wearing makeup and high heels, eighth-grader
Nicholas Cortez, 14, told The Associated Press.

Another eighth-grader, Michael Sweeney, said King's appearance was "freaking
the guys out," the Los Angeles Times reported Thursday.

[Tharagor]

From the information thus far, I have to say that I support the prosecution. Further, there may be reason to investigate the parents of the killer.

Children learn to hate.

[lily]

That's true.........but as much as we like we can't charge the parents for something their child did.

[Pookie]

This is nuts. It sure is a hate crime, but I have a question: What parent would allow their son to dress like that in school? What's up with that?
If they know their son wants to be a woman or whatever, he can do that at home. Did the parents allow the kid to dress like that at school?
Geez. Just because someone dresses different, though, doesn't mean he deserves to die.
Purrs,
Pookie

[Keith Hamburger]

Isn't every crime of violence a "hate crime"?

Doesn't making certain categories of thought leading to a crime of violence create "thought crimes"?

Should someone be punished for their thoughts rather than, or in addition to, their actions?

Keith

[sam]

I think a hate crime is defined by its motive. And no, not every crime of violence is a 'hate crime'. Remember the line from the Godfather "This isnt personal, this is business".

You shoot one of our gang members, we shoot one of yours. It isn't hate for a a particular group, but little more than vengence. Hate indicates that this crime would and could be continued against a certain sector of the population regardless of their actions simply because of their labels.

At least, that's how I view it. Look at gay bashing. It didnt matter where the victims fell on the economic, political arena; just being 'gay' elicited the crime.

[Keith Hamburger]

I think a hate crime is defined by its motive. And no, not every crime of violence is a 'hate crime'. Remember the line from the Godfather "This isnt personal, this is business".

You shoot one of our gang members, we shoot one of yours. It isn't hate for a a particular group, but little more than vengence. Hate indicates that this crime would and could be continued against a certain sector of the population regardless of their actions simply because of their labels.

At least, that's how I view it. Look at gay bashing. It didnt matter where the victims fell on the economic, political arena; just being 'gay' elicited the crime.

Ok. I'll buy that and stand corrected. Not ALL crimes of violence are hate crimes, just most. Many gang crimes are actually motiviated by emotion, not some sort of pure hearted vengeance.

It is still punishment for thoughts as opposed to actions to classify some crimes as "hate crimes" that are different from other crimes. The punishment is increased because of what someone thought or felt.

Keith

[PatrickHenry]

Well, it's murder now.
http://cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/13/boy.shot.ap/index.html?iref=newssearch
IDK about "hate" making murder any worse.

But it's pathetic that the way a kid dresses should make him a target.

I wonder if anyone saw this coming...

[sam]

Well, it's murder now.
http://cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/13/boy.shot.ap/index.html?iref=newssearch
IDK about "hate" making murder any worse.

But it's pathetic that the way a kid dresses should make him a target.

I wonder if anyone saw this coming...


It is pathetic and sad.

Pookie, you posted how come the parents didn't know? I remember going off to high school in one outfit and as soon as I got there changing into more chic apparel and using more makeup and reverting back before I came home.

This isn't something that parents can always see or predict. I think the love of a child sometimes blinds a parent to what might be obviously wrong to an outsider. Sometimes, even the best parents
cannot be held accountable for their childs actions. Sometimes they can when it is obvious in terms of emotional and physical abuse and have about as much interest in their children as one would a plant.

But sometimes children go awry through no fault at all of the parent, except for the blindness of love.

[lily]

I don't know........I'll probably get a lot of flack for this......but I think it took a hell of a lot of courage for the boy that got killed to do what he wanted. It couldn't have been easy for him in school......and I think the teachers knew, not that he would get shot......but that he was probably tormented for how he wanted to dress.

[Tessy]

Well, it's murder now.
http://cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/13/boy.shot.ap/index.html?iref=newssearch
IDK about "hate" making murder any worse.

But it's pathetic that the way a kid dresses should make him a target.

I wonder if anyone saw this coming...


I guess it should be murder! And I totally agree with Keith - this business
of "hate crimes" is an absurdity classical only of nations that are seeking
political oppression upon those who would oppose their (usually) immoral
conduct. "Hate Crimes" were a big part of the Nazi tool set too! You can
NOT legislate virtue! The whole idea of hate crime and hate speech is
Orwellian and belongs only in The Brave New World slime that the concept
oozed out of. Hey let's all legislate that - then we can ALL go to jail! :fight:

Commit a hate crime: Goto Jail!
Charge a hate crime: Goto Jail!
Suggest something maybe a hate crime: Goto Jail!

That's totally fair! All 3 are the legislation of ideas! I think it shows how
ridiculous the whole idea is! Oops! :shock: That's a hate crime... :bye:


:dizzy:

[Tharagor]

That's true.........but as much as we like we can't charge the parents for something their child did.


So.... we should not consider parents responsible for the values of their children?[hr]
This is nuts. It sure is a hate crime, but I have a question: What parent would allow their son to dress like that in school? What's up with that?
If they know their son wants to be a woman or whatever, he can do that at home. Did the parents allow the kid to dress like that at school?
Geez. Just because someone dresses different, though, doesn't mean he deserves to die.
Purrs,
Pookie


Um... your post almost excuses the actions of the killer.

[lily]

[quote=lily]
That's true.........but as much as we like we can't charge the parents for something their child did.


So.... we should not consider parents responsible for the values of their children?

That's not what I said.