God, Life, Death, & Is there a Beyond?

[cronic]

This thread started out from thoughts I had and was going to
post in a different thread titled "why faith" Why faith (http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=11489&page=1)
then I realized I would be going off topic there ( which sometimes I'm guilty of ),
thus here we are.. new title.. new thread

My thoughts and feelings here concerning the subject at hand,
I am positive, is a very small peice of all that I could say!

This is a subject I usually always stay away from..
Not because my views are strong on any point but because
even now at 44 years old, I only know the definition described to me
of the word faith itself, which I now believe has nothing to do with
religion only the definition of the word, can involve the subject of religion.

When it comes to discussing anything concerning religion,
life after this life, heaven or hell.. or even the matrix..
I simply don't know. I'm ( possibly unfortunately yet ),
one of these people that need to actually see something in
order to believe in it. Hence, I don't think I like the
word faith..
I was confirmed as a Lutheran. I went to catechism
in 7 and 8 grades. I was married once and I did it in a church.
I have attended funerals in a church. All my family
( except my younger brother ) believes in God.. I have always
told myself, "what am I out by not believing in God?" I do
believe that for alot of people myself even, ( maybe ) lol.. see, told ya i just don't know, and don't like to think about it or discussing it, yet here
I am typing away ), that by believing in God it actually helps
people in this life so they may have something to look forward to.
Something to hope for perhaps? Believing in God helps ease the
reality of whats in store for us when we are at the end of our
ropes or at the top of the ladder and we have to take that step
off into death.
I really hate to think all I have learned and
experienced in this lifetime, will be over when my physical body
dies on earth..
My brother tells me.. you will be a
dead corpse/worm food when your body dies and nothing more.
When your brain dies.. its all over man.. (how nice a way to put it huh)..
Maybe he is right..Maybe not.. Maybe there will be a judgment day..
and if so.. would being judged be better then nothing at all?

I do think that people who believe they will go to heaven if
they don't commit certain sins could possibly make our world a
better place to live in on a whole..Why? well, If no one believed
in God and heaven.. and If all of it was proven untrue.. would the
world be an even more wild, untamed world.. would there be more
murders and rape and theft and whatever else there is that is
morally wrong? ( Who am I to define what is morally wrong ).

My girl friend says that Man created God to control man. That
sounds feasible, altho I don't want to believe that. Some people
believe in reincarnation. I sometimes think in my sordid thoughts,
what if when i die, will I be given a chance to come back and
have another life.. or spend my eternity with what I have acquired
and with the people I love ( my parents, my daughter, my grandparents, etc ). God would say.. don't worry.. if you come back.. you will have no
memory of what you had, and your new life will be filled with wealth and
love and intelligence, you will live to be 100 years old. I envision my
self telling God.. thank you for the choice.. But I'm going to stay..
This is undoubtedly because of my undying love for my daughter itself.
I'm not sure if I'm reaching out for other opinions here or answers
themselves. Probably I can't get any answers that would be proven
but I guess it would be ok with me to hear what other people think..
only because I often wonder.. Am I the only person in this world who
wonders and often struggles with the what if?

[underdawg]

Sure, I think we all wonder about these things. I think the most important thing for me is to not let fear of death, a god, or fear that my sins will send me to some eternal damnation rule my life. I just know that death has come to all that came before me and that death is a part of being alive. My goal is to live my life as fully and as complete as I know how, and to hopefully learn to accept death when it comes as a friend instead of an enemy to be feared.

[PatrickHenry]

Cronic...I am a man of faith.

But I have my own struggles with it too.

The confirmation to me is a persistent sense of intimacy with the invisible world of the spirit.

The "rationalists" deny it, but my experience of it CANNOT be denied.

I get comfort from what the Bible tells me regarding God's love and concern for me.

I don't figure Jesus for a madman or a liar. I take him at his word that he has made himself a doorway into the eternal kingdom.

[namguy]

This thread started out from thoughts I had and was going to
post in a different thread titled "why faith" Why faith (http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=11489&page=1)
then I realized I would be going off topic there ( which sometimes I'm guilty of ),
thus here we are.. new title.. new thread

My thoughts and feelings here concerning the subject at hand,
I am positive, is a very small peice of all that I could say!

This is a subject I usually always stay away from..
Not because my views are strong on any point but because
even now at 44 years old, I only know the definition described to me
of the word faith itself, which I now believe has nothing to do with
religion only the definition of the word, can involve the subject of religion.

When it comes to discussing anything concerning religion,
life after this life, heaven or hell.. or even the matrix..
I simply don't know. I'm ( possibly unfortunately yet ),
one of these people that need to actually see something in
order to believe in it. Hence, I don't think I like the
word faith..
I was confirmed as a Lutheran. I went to catechism
in 7 and 8 grades. I was married once and I did it in a church.
I have attended funerals in a church. All my family
( except my younger brother ) believes in God.. I have always
told myself, "what am I out by not believing in God?" I do
believe that for alot of people myself even, ( maybe ) lol.. see, told ya i just don't know, and don't like to think about it or discussing it, yet here
I am typing away ), that by believing in God it actually helps
people in this life so they may have something to look forward to.
Something to hope for perhaps? Believing in God helps ease the
reality of whats in store for us when we are at the end of our
ropes or at the top of the ladder and we have to take that step
off into death.
I really hate to think all I have learned and
experienced in this lifetime, will be over when my physical body
dies on earth..
My brother tells me.. you will be a
dead corpse/worm food when your body dies and nothing more.
When your brain dies.. its all over man.. (how nice a way to put it huh)..
Maybe he is right..Maybe not.. Maybe there will be a judgment day..
and if so.. would being judged be better then nothing at all?

I do think that people who believe they will go to heaven if
they don't commit certain sins could possibly make our world a
better place to live in on a whole..Why? well, If no one believed
in God and heaven.. and If all of it was proven untrue.. would the
world be an even more wild, untamed world.. would there be more
murders and rape and theft and whatever else there is that is
morally wrong? ( Who am I to define what is morally wrong ).

My girl friend says that Man created God to control man. That
sounds feasible, altho I don't want to believe that. Some people
believe in reincarnation. I sometimes think in my sordid thoughts,
what if when i die, will I be given a chance to come back and
have another life.. or spend my eternity with what I have acquired
and with the people I love ( my parents, my daughter, my grandparents, etc ). God would say.. don't worry.. if you come back.. you will have no
memory of what you had, and your new life will be filled with wealth and
love and intelligence, you will live to be 100 years old. I envision my
self telling God.. thank you for the choice.. But I'm going to stay..
This is undoubtedly because of my undying love for my daughter itself.
I'm not sure if I'm reaching out for other opinions here or answers
themselves. Probably I can't get any answers that would be proven
but I guess it would be ok with me to hear what other people think..
only because I often wonder.. Am I the only person in this world who
wonders and often struggles with the what if?


I believe there's life after death.[hr]
This thread started out from thoughts I had and was going to
post in a different thread titled "why faith" Why faith (http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=11489&page=1)
then I realized I would be going off topic there ( which sometimes I'm guilty of ),
thus here we are.. new title.. new thread

My thoughts and feelings here concerning the subject at hand,
I am positive, is a very small peice of all that I could say!

This is a subject I usually always stay away from..
Not because my views are strong on any point but because
even now at 44 years old, I only know the definition described to me
of the word faith itself, which I now believe has nothing to do with
religion only the definition of the word, can involve the subject of religion.

When it comes to discussing anything concerning religion,
life after this life, heaven or hell.. or even the matrix..
I simply don't know. I'm ( possibly unfortunately yet ),
one of these people that need to actually see something in
order to believe in it. Hence, I don't think I like the
word faith..
I was confirmed as a Lutheran. I went to catechism
in 7 and 8 grades. I was married once and I did it in a church.
I have attended funerals in a church. All my family
( except my younger brother ) believes in God.. I have always
told myself, "what am I out by not believing in God?" I do
believe that for alot of people myself even, ( maybe ) lol.. see, told ya i just don't know, and don't like to think about it or discussing it, yet here
I am typing away ), that by believing in God it actually helps
people in this life so they may have something to look forward to.
Something to hope for perhaps? Believing in God helps ease the
reality of whats in store for us when we are at the end of our
ropes or at the top of the ladder and we have to take that step
off into death.
I really hate to think all I have learned and
experienced in this lifetime, will be over when my physical body
dies on earth..
My brother tells me.. you will be a
dead corpse/worm food when your body dies and nothing more.
When your brain dies.. its all over man.. (how nice a way to put it huh)..
Maybe he is right..Maybe not.. Maybe there will be a judgment day..
and if so.. would being judged be better then nothing at all?

I do think that people who believe they will go to heaven if
they don't commit certain sins could possibly make our world a
better place to live in on a whole..Why? well, If no one believed
in God and heaven.. and If all of it was proven untrue.. would the
world be an even more wild, untamed world.. would there be more
murders and rape and theft and whatever else there is that is
morally wrong? ( Who am I to define what is morally wrong ).

My girl friend says that Man created God to control man. That
sounds feasible, altho I don't want to believe that. Some people
believe in reincarnation. I sometimes think in my sordid thoughts,
what if when i die, will I be given a chance to come back and
have another life.. or spend my eternity with what I have acquired
and with the people I love ( my parents, my daughter, my grandparents, etc ). God would say.. don't worry.. if you come back.. you will have no
memory of what you had, and your new life will be filled with wealth and
love and intelligence, you will live to be 100 years old. I envision my
self telling God.. thank you for the choice.. But I'm going to stay..
This is undoubtedly because of my undying love for my daughter itself.
I'm not sure if I'm reaching out for other opinions here or answers
themselves. Probably I can't get any answers that would be proven
but I guess it would be ok with me to hear what other people think..
only because I often wonder.. Am I the only person in this world who
wonders and often struggles with the what if?


Man has created 'gods,' like money, power, pride & selfishness. These are the gods man has created. I'm going to get into such matters as faith, religion and beliefs, no point to it on this forum.

[cronic]

Sure, I think we all wonder about these things. I think the most important thing for me is to not let fear of death, a god, or fear that my sins will send me to some eternal damnation rule my life. I just know that death has come to all that came before me and that death is a part of being alive. My goal is to live my life as fully and as complete as I know how, and to hopefully learn to accept death when it comes as a friend instead of an enemy to be feared.


I feel alot like that to underdawg, I must admit tho sometimes I have to be strong to feel that way tho.. I understand people have their weak moments.. I know I do..Those are the times I think when it does frustrate me or I have this ever constant worry about death.. Its like a battle with me.. I know its the one thing I can't control or stop. what you say makes alot of common sense and I thank you for your responce!


Cronic...I am a man of faith.
But I have my own struggles with it too.
The confirmation to me is a persistent sense of intimacy with the invisible world of the spirit.
The "rationalists" deny it, but my experience of it CANNOT be denied.
I get comfort from what the Bible tells me regarding God's love and concern for me.
I don't figure Jesus for a madman or a liar. I take him at his word that he has made himself a doorway into the eternal kingdom.


I often think I should pick up my bible and read it more.. I used to go to church alot when i was younger as a child and also when i was first married.. After 18 years in a marriage that went poof. I really got depressed.. then my daughter came to live with me.. she was 15 at the time and her and I went to church the whole time she was with me..I think I do remember feeling better about life itself back then . she went back and forth between me and her mom.. when she finally went out on her own at 17.. ( closely watched by her dad ) I stopped going because I didn't want to attend by myself.. I think since I have stopped going altogether I have more then ever continued to ask myself that unanswered question that always burns in my mind.. What is the purpose of life?.. Thank you for your thoughts PH!. They have me thinking about going back to church!


I believe there's life after death.

I really really want to believe there is life after death to.. Like I said.. I have acquired so much in this life time and I want to never lose it or at least I want it to mean something..


Man has created 'gods,' like money, power, pride & selfishness. These are the gods man has created. I'm going to get into such matters as faith, religion and beliefs, no point to it on this forum.


Smiles, I respect that..I also can see the logic in it..
Thank you for your feelings.. as far as the no point to it on this forum..well, I didn't think it was like, inappropriate or anything or the wrong place for this forum when there is a section for religion and the thread is properly placed in that category..Still,Thanks again namguy for taking the time to express your views friend

[PostmodernProphet]

I like your opening post, Cronic.....you have managed to put most of modern society's angst into just a few paragraphs.....

I only know the definition described to me
of the word faith itself, which I now believe has nothing to do with
religion only the definition of the word

this was the first thing that caught my attention....I think that there is a lot of truth there.....Christianity looks to the Bible, and in the Bible it says you can be restored to God simply through faith......what is that which God refers to, is it the same thing that religions refer to, that society defines it as....

In the OT, God began things by saying "I AM", his very name YHWH is a statement of his existence.....it is metaphysical deity sticking his nose in our face and saying "I am real".....and the NT accentuates that....John 3:16.....Believe and be saved......."take Me at My word".........faith has nothing to do with being good, or keeping the commandments.....faith is simply saying "yeah, I accept your claim of being real, even though I don't have any physical evidence for it"......willing to accept there is a being out there who loves me and did something for me even though he didn't have to.....and it follows from that, that I would love someone who did that......that's what God is after....someone who loves, simply because they want to love.....not somebody who loves because they have to, or because it's the logical thing to do, but just because they want to.......

and somebody who out of that love turns to someone else and helps them....because they want to, not because they have to or because it's the logical thing to do, but just because they want to.....

I like a world that works that way and I like a deity that set up a world that would work that way......and I like Christianity because it's the only religion I know of that describes the world as working that way because a deity set it up that way......

[namguy]

Sure, I think we all wonder about these things. I think the most important thing for me is to not let fear of death, a god, or fear that my sins will send me to some eternal damnation rule my life. I just know that death has come to all that came before me and that death is a part of being alive. My goal is to live my life as fully and as complete as I know how, and to hopefully learn to accept death when it comes as a friend instead of an enemy to be feared.


I feel alot like that to underdawg, I must admit tho sometimes I have to be strong to feel that way tho.. I understand people have their weak moments.. I know I do..Those are the times I think when it does frustrate me or I have this ever constant worry about death.. Its like a battle with me.. I know its the one thing I can't control or stop. what you say makes alot of common sense and I thank you for your responce!


Cronic...I am a man of faith.
But I have my own struggles with it too.
The confirmation to me is a persistent sense of intimacy with the invisible world of the spirit.
The "rationalists" deny it, but my experience of it CANNOT be denied.
I get comfort from what the Bible tells me regarding God's love and concern for me.
I don't figure Jesus for a madman or a liar. I take him at his word that he has made himself a doorway into the eternal kingdom.


I often think I should pick up my bible and read it more.. I used to go to church alot when i was younger as a child and also when i was first married.. After 18 years in a marriage that went poof. I really got depressed.. then my daughter came to live with me.. she was 15 at the time and her and I went to church the whole time she was with me..I think I do remember feeling better about life itself back then . she went back and forth between me and her mom.. when she finally went out on her own at 17.. ( closely watched by her dad ) I stopped going because I didn't want to attend by myself.. I think since I have stopped going altogether I have more then ever continued to ask myself that unanswered question that always burns in my mind.. What is the purpose of life?.. Thank you for your thoughts PH!. They have me thinking about going back to church!


I believe there's life after death.

I really really want to believe there is life after death to.. Like I said.. I have acquired so much in this life time and I want to never lose it or at least I want it to mean something..


Man has created 'gods,' like money, power, pride & selfishness. These are the gods man has created. I'm going to get into such matters as faith, religion and beliefs, no point to it on this forum.


Smiles, I respect that..I also can see the logic in it..
Thank you for your feelings.. as far as the no point to it on this forum..well, I didn't think it was like, inappropriate or anything or the wrong place for this forum when there is a section for religion and the thread is properly placed in that category..Still,Thanks again namguy for taking the time to express your views friend


I live by my faith, much as Patrick Henry discribed. I don't live for this life but rather for the life after. I feel I've been Blessed, I have very few material wants and my needs are always met.

[Jonah]

Seek and ye shall find, Cronic...and it sounds as if you are definitately on the road. The good news is that if you keep searching you are going to be allright. A more difficult thing to address is your brother's thinking he has all the answers when he says, "you will be a dead corpse/worm food when your body dies and nothing more."
You, Cronic, are going to be much more than a corpse when you die, because you are open and reaching. Belief is the action of seeking, finding, and nurturing faith, and it is a journey with mountains and valleys. For many, I think the journey starts with fear (What's going to happen to me?) from there it most often goes to hope (What do I HOPE is true?) and from there the paths diverge.
Do you believe in evolution, Cronic? It is said that nature does nothing uselessly. Why would man evolve a need to reach, a need to believe...unless there was something to it? It would seem a tremendous liability for man to be stuck daydreaming about the hereafter and concerning himself with eternal survival of his soul unless it had a purpose.
My opinion is that people die in as many different ways as they live. Believe/hope that you can reincarnate? Happy birthday. Hate or revenge tie you to a certain person? Haunt them. Accept the sacrifice Christ as redemption for falling short of your God-given potential? Maybe we can drink some beers and go fishing. Be a bad person and believe you're going to hell for it? Descend and burn. Embrace atheism and black nothingness of death? Bye bye, you will be missed.

Search and define your beliefs, and I think the universe/God/creator(s) has/have an infinite reserve of tolerance and patience. Subscribe yourself to an absolute when you are ready, because the verdict that is going to be handed down is likely to look an awful lot like the belief system you have created for yourself.

I think that you are going to be all-right, Cronic, but in your search you should also strive to get your brother moving. Maybe his assertion is bravado; maybe he is calling in his own way for someone to assist or convince him, as you seem to be doing. I think it is important to get him looking though. My personal opinion is that even worshipping the devil would be preferable to being an atheist. At least the devil-worshipper is searching for ways to relate to God. The atheist is willing himself into non-existence.

Good luck to you on your journey.