View Full Version : McCain Likes Torture
Should he be stripped of his hero status... since it was based on something he approves of now.... But was against just weeks ago.Source (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/13/mccain-waterboarding-fail/)
Maverick Fails The Test:
McCain Votes Against Waterboarding Ban
Today, the Senate brought the Intelligence Authorization Bill to the floor, which contained a provision from Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) establishing one interrogation standard across the government. The bill requires the intelligence community to abide by the same standards as articulated in the Army Field Manual and bans waterboarding.
Just hours ago, the Senate voted in favor of the bill, 51-45.
Earlier today, ThinkProgress noted that Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), a former prisoner of war, has spoken strongly in favor of implementing the Army Field Manual standard. When confronted today with the decision of whether to stick with his conscience or cave to the right wing, McCain chose to ditch his principles and instead vote to preserve waterboarding:
Mr. McCain, a former prisoner of war, has consistently voiced opposition to waterboarding and other methods that critics say is a form torture. But the Republicans, confident of a White House veto, did not mount the challenge. Mr. McCain voted “no” on Wednesday afternoon.
The New York Times Times notes that “the White House has long said Mr. Bush will veto the bill, saying it ‘would prevent the president from taking the lawful actions necessary to protect Americans from attack in wartime.’”
After Bush vetoes the bill, McCain will again be confronted with a vote to either stand with President Bush or stand against torture. He indicated with his vote today where he will come down on that issue.
John McCain: He was against waterboarding before he was for it.
He is clearly sucking up to his "Godfather" and the policies of the cheney/bush syndicate.
I say strip him of his "Hero" status.
What a Loser/Flip-Flopper!!!
apdst
02-14-2008, 02:41 PM
McCain Likes Torture
So do Obama and Hillary. They just do a better job of hiding it.
Have a Source to support that, apdst? (what the hell does apdst mean?? ever heard of a vowel?)
I disapprove of them "Tip-Toeing" around the issues lately.
They didnt vote on this particular bill.
Time for some specifics.
Generic sloganeering disrespects our intelligence.[hr]I have been sick of the Dem candidates vague platitudes for MONTHS now.
But at least they didnt vote for behavior that we used to execute people (Japs and Nazis) for (not that long ago)
Deadshot
02-14-2008, 03:05 PM
apdst, McCain is trying to claim that he can bring in the Indendent votes and, if Hillary wins, maybe even some Liberal votes. How is that possible with the "approves" torture vote?
I have to agree with DANG here, he flipped flopped AND neither Hillary or Barrack have really said much of anything on this subject.
McCain really hurt himself with Independents and Liberals, but did shore up his Conservative support...but the cost may be too much.
If for some weird catastrophic reason (due to earth reversing its rotation or election fraud), McCain were elected prez.... he would be passing out pardons like pennies for the current reigning batch of thieves and murderers. McCains' vote on this is his initiation rite.
The Straight-Jacket Express coming to to a Gitmo adjunct near YOU!!
John "Hurt me, Beat me, Waterboard me" McCain is a disgrace to the uniform he wore with all the medals and ribbons and bangles. Is he ignorant that the Geneva Conventions protect OUR TROOPS??
He's a Troop Hater!!!
At least Jane Fonda didnt want our troops TORTURED!!!!
What a sack of crap![hr]
McCain really hurt himself with Independents and Liberals, but did shore up his Conservative support...but the cost may be too much.
Too bad Huckabee is headed for the Grand Caymans (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/02/13/huckabee-heads-to-cayman-islands-for-paid-speech/) today (with suitcases of cash?).... this would be a good time for him to pounce.
apdst
02-14-2008, 03:35 PM
Have a Source to support that, apdst?
Are you naive enough to think that Bush is the first, and last president to advocate a little bit of leaning upon prisoners to extract information?
(what the hell does apdst mean?? ever heard of a vowel?)
Ever hear of an acronym? It stands for Armor Peircing, Discarding Sabot-Tracer.
Prior to Desert Storm S2 believed that APDST rounds couldn't penetrate Soviet tanks. During Desert Storm, we found out that APDST rounds could penetrate all Soviet tanks, from all four angles, except the T-72, in which case, the round could only penetrate the armor on it's ass. The T-55's, T-64's and T-69's could be punched from any angle, the turrent, the front slope, the ass, the sides of the hull, you name it.
Our armor defeating capabilities became phenomenal, at that point. Before that, a Bradley only carried five TOW missiles and was believed to only have five chances at killing enemy armor. We went from having five anti-armor shots, to having a couple hundred anti-armor shots. A Bradley could carry way more than two rounds of 25mm ammo, but it took four, or five rounds to actually kill a tank, depending on where you hit him.
I know one Bradley gunner who was damn glad to find out that he 1) could shoot enemy tanks on the move and 2) had a thousand more rounds in which to kill tanks with.
The acrnym fits, because I'm a hard charger like that.[hr]neither Hillary or Barrack have really said much of anything on this subject.
Of course they're not saying much about it! They're not stupid.
Oh wait.......
Maybe Huckabee is in favor of torture look how he raised his kid, David "Slingblade" Huckabee
(could you spot him in a line-up?? Look at just the pics 1st)
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7904/pimpmykidlr3.jpg
apdst
02-14-2008, 03:42 PM
Whoa, wait a minute. I thought we weren't picking on candidates kids.
Deadshot
02-14-2008, 03:47 PM
DANG likes to shock and cross the line, that's why it was hard for me to agree with him earlier. But my point, and his in the first post, stands.
This type of vote will hurt McCain. As to your ascertion that other POTUS didn't mind torture, I'm not naive and believe your right. But standing up and pounding Bush and others for advocating torture, and bringing up your own torture as an example of why it was wrong, then voting to "OK" torture is a new one for me.
It WILL hurt McCain.
Well, I've been saying if it was Clinton/McCain, McCain would get my vote. Go Obamam go! (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/14/america/intel.php)
Senator John McCain, the leading Republican presidential candidate and
former prisoner of war who opposes harsh interrogation tactics, voted
against the bill. McCain said that the ban would limit the CIA's ability to
gather intelligence but that his vote was consistent with his firm stance
against torture.
"We always supported allowing the CIA to use extra measures," McCain said.
"I believe waterboarding is illegal and should be banned."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Senator McCain rightly insists that the U.S. may not (i) torture; (ii) engage in cruel treatment prohibited by Common Article 3; or (iii) engage in conduct that shocks the conscience, under the McCain Amendment. He also insists that waterboarding violates each of these legal restrictions, that the Bush Administration's legal analysis has been dishonest and flatly wrong, and that we need "a good faith interpretation of the statutes that guide what is permissible in the CIA program."
Have a Source to support that, apdst?
Are you naive enough to think that Bush is the first, and last president to advocate a little bit of leaning upon prisoners to extract information?No, I meant could you support your statement, "So do Obama and Hillary." (In response to me "McCain Likes Torture").
Did Hill and Obama ever vote for torture or make such a statement? I really dont remember that.
(what the hell does apdst mean?? ever heard of a vowel?)
Ever hear of an acronym? It stands for Armor Peircing, Discarding Sabot-Tracer. Are they composed of Depleted Uranium? Isnt that illegal? It has been determined that the long lasting residual (million years or so) effects do not justify their use. Do we want people to pollute OUR country with those in a tit for tat scenario in the not so distant future? Theres a good reason DU has been banned by the UN (of which we are signatories, making it the supreme law of the USA). So you named yourself after an illegal substance. Have you seen the pics of children deformed by DU? American kids too... the troops deformed babies? I could dig that up for you. But if you like torture, you would prolly enjoy that too much.
neither Hillary or Barrack have really said much of anything on this subject.Oh, so you retract your above statement?
Of course they're not saying much about it! They're not stupid. Then what did you base your statement on, an assumption?
Deadshot
02-14-2008, 04:00 PM
Well, I've been saying if it was Clinton/McCain, McCain would get my vote. Go Obamam go! (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/14/america/intel.php)
Senator John McCain, the leading Republican presidential candidate and
former prisoner of war who opposes harsh interrogation tactics, voted
against the bill. McCain said that the ban would limit the CIA's ability to
gather intelligence but that his vote was consistent with his firm stance
against torture.
"We always supported allowing the CIA to use extra measures," McCain said.
"I believe waterboarding is illegal and should be banned."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Senator McCain rightly insists that the U.S. may not (i) torture; (ii) engage in cruel treatment prohibited by Common Article 3; or (iii) engage in conduct that shocks the conscience, under the McCain Amendment. He also insists that waterboarding violates each of these legal restrictions, that the Bush Administration's legal analysis has been dishonest and flatly wrong, and that we need "a good faith interpretation of the statutes that guide what is permissible in the CIA program."
...but what McCain voted for allows water torture. Not only DANG's link but the links at both CNN and FOX says so. :dizzy:
So that means you won't vote for McCain either...right?
micfranklin
02-14-2008, 04:02 PM
It just doesn't make sense to me, going against torture at first and now voting against a torture ban.
Whoa, wait a minute. I thought we weren't picking on candidates kids.
Its a statement about Huckabees abuse of power.... not so much about the "Fruit" of his loins
Huckabee used his governor powers to forestall an investigation into his sons crime.
See Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/huckabee/dog.asp): (copy/paste disabled)
Screenshot:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6828/huckjs2.jpg
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Huckabee FIRED the guy for not aiding and abetting his fucktard son.
If the CIA is prohibited from torture could they still employ Blackwater Mercenaries to do the dirty work.... you know the raping of kids and stuff to get their parents to confess to stuff they dont know anything about?
So, it would still be bidness as usual. Since Mercenaries are protected by E.O. 13303. Against ANY prosecution.
Move along.... nothing to see here folks. ZAPPPPP!!!
I SAID Move it!!! ZZZZAAAAPPPPP!!!
brien
02-14-2008, 06:08 PM
Is he ignorant that the Geneva Conventions protect OUR TROOPS??
Sometimes they don't, and almost never, when Al Qaeda is involved.
Did the Geneva Accords protect Daniel Pearl? (I know he was a journalist) Did the GA protect those Contractors in Fallusha when their bodies were hung from the bridge in Iraq? Or the two soldiers who were taken prisoner and later executed by the terrorists?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/20/AR2006062000242.html
BAGHDAD, June 20 -- Two U.S. soldiers, missing for three days since their abduction in an insurgent stronghold south of Baghdad, were found dead, a military spokesman said Tuesday, and a top U.S. commander ordered an investigation into why the men were isolated from a larger force in such a dangerous part of Iraq.
The remains of the soldiers -- Pfc. Kristian Menchaca, 23, of Houston and Pfc. Thomas L. Tucker, 25, of Madras, Ore. -- were recovered near a power plant in the town of Yusufiya, where they had been operating a vehicle checkpoint that came under attack Friday, Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell said in a briefing for reporters. A third soldier, Spec. David J. Babineau, 25, of Springfield, Mass., died in the initial assault
And these Soldiers:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/13/iraq.main/index.html
Earlier Sunday, a terror group with links to al Qaeda in Iraq claimed responsibility for the weekend attack that sparked the manhunt for the missing U.S. soldiers, according to a statement on the Internet.(Watch Arwa Damon report on the hunt for missing U.S. soldiers. )
Anyone who thinks that Islamic Extremists obey the Geneva Accords should graduate from Kindergarden and realize the terrorists answer to no one but themselves.
Didnt all that happen AFTER the Abu Ghraib scandal broke? And Gitmo?[hr]We get what we GIVE![hr]An old saying:
"If you dont like what life is giving you......
change what you are giving"
apdst
02-14-2008, 10:35 PM
It has been determined that the long lasting residual (million years or so) effects do not justify their use
Another crock of shit you've been sold by some Lib butt rag.
Looks like I was wrong about the million years. Its actually got a half-life of 4.5 Billion years (which comes to 9 Billion years).... but so what.... its just brown Islamic people we are talking about. Right?wiki~ Depleted Uranium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium)
<snip>
The waste material left over from this enrichment process is composed primarily of uranium-238 and is called depleted uranium or DU. It contains less than one third as much uranium-235 and uranium-234 as concentrated natural uranium, and is weakly radioactive due to the half-life of U-238 being about 4.5 billion years. Another, uncommon, source of depleted uranium is reprocessed spent reactor fuel. DU created by enrichment can be distinguished from that created in a reactor by the percentage of uranium-236,[1] produced by neutron capture from uranium-235 in nuclear reactor, present in the material. An external radiation dose from DU is about 60 percent of that from the same mass of uranium with a natural isotopic ratio. In the past it has been called by the names Q-metal, depletalloy, and D-38, but these have fallen into disuse.
At standard temperature and pressure it is a very dense metal solid. The primary civilian uses of DU are due to its very high density and include counterweights in aircraft, radiation shields in medical radiation therapy machines, containers for the transport of radioactive materials and shielding material in industrial radiography devices. The primary military uses of DU are also due to its very high density and include defensive armor plate and armour-piercing projectiles.
Depleted uranium munitions are controversial because of numerous unanswered questions about the long-term health effects. DU is less toxic than other heavy metals such as arsenic and mercury, and is only very weakly radioactive because of its long half life.[2] While any radiation exposure has risks, no conclusive epidemiological data have correlated DU exposure to specific human health effects such as cancer.[3] However, the UK government has attributed birth defect claims from a 1991 Gulf War combat veteran to DU poisoning,[4][5] and studies using cultured cells and laboratory rodents continue to suggest the possibility of leukemogenic, genetic, reproductive, and neurological effects from chronic exposure. Until such issues are resolved with further research, the use of DU by the military will continue to be controversial.[6]
<snip>
In the 1970s, The Pentagon reported that the Soviet military had developed armor plating for Warsaw Pact tanks that NATO ammunition couldn't penetrate. The Pentagon began searching for material to make denser bullets. After testing various metals, ordnance researchers settled on depleted uranium. DU was useful in ammunition not only because of its unique physical properties and effectiveness, but also because it was cheap and readily available. Tungsten, the only other candidate, had to be obtained from China. With DU stockpiles estimated to be more than 500,000 tons, the financial burden of housing this amount of low-level radioactive waste was very apparent. It was therefore more economical to use depleted uranium rather than storing it. Thus, from the late 1970s, the U.S., the Soviet Union, Britain, and France began converting their stockpiles of depleted uranium into kinetic energy penetrators.
<snip>
[edit] Chemical Toxicity
Health effects of DU are determined by factors such as the extent of exposure and whether it was internal or external. Three main pathways exist by which internalization of uranium may occur: inhalation, ingestion, and shrapnel contamination. Properties such as the solubility of uranium and its compounds influence their absorption, distribution, translocation, elimination and the resulting toxicity. The chemical toxicity of depleted uranium is much greater than its radiological toxicity.
Uranium is pyrophoric when finely divided. It will corrode under the influence of air and water producing insoluble uranium(IV) and soluble uranium (VI) salts. Soluble uranium salts are toxic. Uranium accumulates in several organs, such as the liver, spleen, and kidneys. The World Health Organization has established a daily "tolerated intake" of soluble uranium salts for the general public of 0.5 µg/kg body weight, or 35 µg for a 70 kg adult.
[hr]Provided you are willing to deny the troops who are affected.
apdst
02-14-2008, 11:57 PM
is weakly radioactive
You must have read over that part. The fact is, a DU round has about as much radiation as an army issue compass.
December
02-15-2008, 12:05 AM
I say strip him of his "Hero" status.
What a Loser/Flip-Flopper!!!
DANG, check these two articles -
apdst
02-15-2008, 12:08 AM
You boys are gonna, "swiftboat", John McCain?
You must have read over the part where it ACCUMULATES in the body. Only a fraction of it passes in the stool Soluble uranium salts are toxic. Uranium accumulates in several organs, such as the liver, spleen, and kidneys. It stays in the body for over 20 years. Imagine kids playing around the carcass of a vehicle hit by DU shells.
You may think its weak... but the stuff made from heavy metals for munitions is highly concentrated and then its REALY toxic when "aerosolized" into a toxic vapor on impact: Uruknet (http://uruknet.info/?p=m40164&s1=h1)
January 16, 2008
Depleted uranium (DU) has been found in the urine of Gulf War vets as long as 20 years after exposure. A highly sensitive test has been developed which can detect DU even when previous screening has proven negative. This test may assist with unresolved health claims.
We are all exposed to minuscule amounts of uranium every day. But it would take over five tons of rock and soil to come up with a teaspoon of the isotopic proportions of natural uranium. In contrast, the DU used by the military is "depleted" by only one percent of the total uranium. It remains highly concentrated.
Any form of uranium becomes exceedingly dangerous when burned, which is exactly what happens when DU is used in weapons systems. The tiny particles are aerosolized and can be inhaled into the lungs. These soluble DU compounds then enter the bloodstream and from there reach bones and organs. This DU can remain, literally radiating the body from within, for years. In the past, exposed individuals were often not checked for inhaled DU or were not tested with equipment that could differentiate the isotopes 235 and 236 characteristic of DU.
more... (http://uruknet.info/?p=m40164&s1=h1)
apdst
02-15-2008, 12:46 AM
DANG,
You are aware the DU is used as ballast for airliners and the Space Shuttle. Right?
I guess that means that all those folks in West Louisiana that were showered with shuttle debris are going to be dead in 20 years.
DU is also used in dentures, ceramic dishes, semiconductors, green colored glassware.
If DU were as bad as you make it out to be, there should be gazillions of people dieing from radiation poisoning.
Right... and we can just wait for Faux News to report it.
We have derailed this topic enough.
Easy90
02-15-2008, 01:25 AM
McCain Likes Torture
Should he be stripped of his hero status.
Only if it's proved that he used steroids.
apdst
02-15-2008, 01:30 AM
Only if it's proved that he used steroids.
No, don't say that. Congress will launch another multimillion dollar investigation.
So that means you won't vote for McCain either...right?
Right.
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