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View Full Version : Senators defend controversial wiretapping bill


Trish
02-13-2008, 11:13 AM
Feb. 12, 2008, 11:12PM
Senate approves expanding government's spy powers
Immunity for eavesdropping would be given to phone companies

By ERIC LICHTBLAU
New York Times

Senators defend controversial wiretapping bill

WASHINGTON — After more than a year of heated political wrangling, the Senate handed the White House a major victory Tuesday by voting to broaden the government's spy powers and to give legal protection to phone companies that cooperated in President Bush's warrantless eavesdropping program.

The 68-29 Senate vote Tuesday to update the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act belied the nearly two months of stops and starts and bitter political debate that preceded it.

The two sides had battled to balance civil liberties with the need to conduct surveillance on potential adversaries.

At issue is the government's post-9/11 Terrorist Surveillance Program, which circumvented a secret court created 30 years ago to oversee such activities.

The court was part of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, a law written in response to government abuse of its surveillance authority against Americans.

The Senate rejected a series of amendments that would have restricted the government's surveillance powers and eliminated immunity for the phone carriers.

The House has already rejected the idea of immunity for the phone companies, and Democratic leaders reacted angrily to the Senate vote. But congressional officials said it appeared that the House would ultimately be forced to accept some sort of legal protection for the phone carriers in negotiations between the two chambers this week.

With resistance led by Democratic Sens. Russ Feingold of Wisconsin and Christopher Dodd of Connecticut, critics of the administration's plan argued that it effectively rewarded phone companies by providing them with legal insulation for actions that violated long-standing law and their own fiduciary responsibilities to their customers. Immunity would protect the phone companies from some 40 lawsuits now pending that charge the firms broke the law by taking part in the program.

But supporters of the plan said the phone carriers acted out of patriotism after the Sept. 11 attacks in complying with what they believed was a legally binding order from the president.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/nation/5536683.html

preservanation
02-13-2008, 11:34 AM
I watched these votes on CSPAN, what a resounding thumping.
I always love to see Feingold's ass handed to him. He must be pretty familiar with the look of it by now!

just a grunt
02-13-2008, 12:14 PM
There are a few surprises in the democrats who crossed party lines on this. I was also surprised/disappointed that neither Clinton nor Obama were present to vote an a rather important bill.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00020#position

Tharagor
02-13-2008, 12:33 PM
The part that bothers me in the article is:


But congressional officials said it appeared that the House would ultimately be forced to accept some sort of legal protection for the phone carriers in negotiations between the two chambers this week.


That indicates that our system doesn't work as designed and is evidence of a loss of checks and balances.

I'm a little surprised that our "constitutionalist" members aren't howling about that. Or, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised?

just a grunt
02-13-2008, 12:48 PM
Not sure that is an example of system not working.

How does the resolution of differences by the two houses represent system failure?

brien
02-13-2008, 01:33 PM
The part that bothers me in the article is:


But congressional officials said it appeared that the House would ultimately be forced to accept some sort of legal protection for the phone carriers in negotiations between the two chambers this week.


That indicates that our system doesn't work as designed and is evidence of a loss of checks and balances.

I'm a little surprised that our "constitutionalist" members aren't howling about that. Or, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised?


This vote is not a failure of the checks and balances but rather a perfect example of how the Republicans and Democrats are more similar in their ideology than they are different today. It also demonstrates the absolute grip that both parties have on the power that controls this government.

Any voter who really wants to see change in our government must abandon these traditional parties who promise everything and merely deliver the same tired old results. They are just old whores in new dresses.:sick:

Tharagor
02-13-2008, 01:48 PM
The part that bothers me in the article is:


But congressional officials said it appeared that the House would ultimately be forced to accept some sort of legal protection for the phone carriers in negotiations between the two chambers this week.


That indicates that our system doesn't work as designed and is evidence of a loss of checks and balances.

I'm a little surprised that our "constitutionalist" members aren't howling about that. Or, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised?


This vote is not a failure of the checks and balances but rather a perfect example of how the Republicans and Democrats are more similar in their ideology than they are different today. It also demonstrates the absolute grip that both parties have on the power that controls this government.

Any voter who really wants to see change in our government must abandon these traditional parties who promise everything and merely deliver the same tired old results. They are just old whores in new dresses.:sick:


I wasn't referring to the vote itself, but instead the use of the word forced. While I know it's an idealistic view, but isn't our bicameral system supposed to work by rational discussion and logical compromise? I hardly think the term forced indicates that such even remotely reflects reality.

I've just been waiting for the opportunity to bring it up, because like you, I'm tired of the system. It may have been a good idea in the eighteenth century, but we have learned much since then.[hr]
Not sure that is an example of system not working.

How does the resolution of differences by the two houses represent system failure?


I was hoping that I would not have to highlight the term forced.

While I know it's an idealistic view, but isn't our bicameral system supposed to work by rational discussion and logical compromise? I hardly think the term forced indicates that such even remotely reflects reality.

Of course, I've just been waiting for a time to bring it up because I don't believe our system works any more. There's too much corruption.

Politics is the dirtiest business there is.

BoogyMan
02-13-2008, 02:16 PM
You are putting a lot of weight behind your view of the word forced used in the article. The way it is used speaks to the idea that there would have to be compromise or they would get nothing passed.