US soldier converts to Islam

[December]

Mon, 11 Feb 2008
Muslims believe that the Quran is the book of divine guidance and direction for mankind.

http://www.presstv.com/photo/20080211/shafabakhsh20080211210120222.jpg A US soldier in Afghanistan converts to Islam commenting that "Islam is pretty much the only religion that makes sense to me."

"I really wish everything would stop and we would be able to live together and be happy," Sergeant Wallace Nelson, 31, said after the Monday ceremony which was held near Pakistan border.

The ceremony was attended by district officials, including the area's Afghan army commander, and tribal elders.

He told AFP that his interaction with his interpreters and other Afghans had persuaded him to convert to Islam.

Afghan media reported in July last year that two American soldiers, a male and a female, serving in the US Airbase in Parvan in Bagram province, converted to Islam, changed their names, and married each other after serving five years in Afghanistan.

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=42684&sectionid=3510212

[Scorpion]

Big deal. He went "native." We had guys in Vietnam that became Buddhists. Guess what happened when they got back to CONUS. No more Buddhism. This guy will do the same.

[Go Fish]

Guess what? People give up their religions for new ones every day. It's all voodoo bullshit to begin with, so it doesn't matter, unless they strap on a bomb and walk into a chow hall.
Cuz Muslims seem to do that.

[lily]

December......you've got me stumped on this one. I can't figure out why this
is current events or even why it's considered news.

but.......Carry on........

My wayward son. There'll be peace when you are done. Lay your weary head to rest.....

[PatrickHenry]

There has to be some reason for a soldier to do such a thing.

What would the motivation be?

Could it be that he is a rebel?

Could it be that he has his own internal reasons for thinking that Islam is a worthy faith?

Is this soldier now a threat because he has converted to another of the great worldwide monotheistic faiths?

But, like lily, I wonder why this is comment worthy...

[Buck Laser]

There has to be some reason for a soldier to do such a thing.

What would the motivation be?

Could it be that he is a rebel?

Could it be that he has his own internal reasons for thinking that Islam is a worthy faith?

Is this soldier now a threat because he has converted to another of the great worldwide monotheistic faiths?

But, like lily, I wonder why this is comment worthy...

I'd prefer to believe it was a genuine religious conversion.

[Go Fish]

I believe that he has bounced from one source of solace to another for years, and that one day he will finally come to the conclusion that he is responsible for his own life. Say, in four years or so.
Let's just hope that he doesn't frag any of his co-workers in the interim.

[underdawg]

I find most all religions to be a belief in some sort of magic, so for him to convert to Islam makes just as much sense to me as someone converting to Christianity.

[apdst]

Who wants to bet he'll suddenly be unable to kill his fellow Muslims, before long? Then, he'll insist that her be stationed stateside, for the duration of the war, because of his religious convictions. The next thing you know, he can't go on KP, because he might come in contact with pork, then he won't be able to touch a weapon, so that will rule out a buncha different details.

[PatrickHenry]

Are you saying that US soldiers aren't ever Muslims?

[Elrathin]

Who wants to bet he'll suddenly be unable to kill his fellow Muslims, before long? Then, he'll insist that her be stationed stateside, for the duration of the war, because of his religious convictions. The next thing you know, he can't go on KP, because he might come in contact with pork, then he won't be able to touch a weapon, so that will rule out a buncha different details.


Or he continues on as a soldier and does his job. Imagine that?

[apdst]

Or he continues on as a soldier and does his job

I doubt it.

[lily]

Well then apsdt........I guess according to you, we are seriously screwed. (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/attack/43546_chaplains20.shtml)

Yee is chaplain of the 700-member 29th Signal Battalion, which counts nearly
a dozen Muslim soldiers in its ranks. He estimates that there are 100 to 150
Muslim soldiers at Fort Lewis and McChord Air Force Base.

The number of Muslims in the U.S. military is hard to estimate. Estimates
vary from 4,000 to more than 12,000. Armywide, Yee knows of at least seven
other posts with Muslim chaplains.

Man.........the news just keeps getting worse. (http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=44689)


In the United States, Islam is the fastest growing religion, a trend fueled
mostly by immigration. There are 5 million to 7 million Muslims in the
United States. They make up between 10,000 and 20,000 members of the
American military.

[underdawg]

There is absolutely no rule or law that says you can not be a muslim in the U.S. military. We are not a "Christian" nation fighting the Muslim religion.

[Questerr]

Or he continues on as a soldier and does his job

I doubt it.


There's two guys in my unit that are Muslims, both have been to Iraq, and neither have any issues as soldiers.

Just because someone is a Muslim, it doesn't mean that they aren't patriots and don't want to help fight terror.

Edit: By the way, for someone proclaiming to be a conservative, I could definately say that with that comment you are anti-Soldier.

[apdst]

Edit: By the way, for someone proclaiming to be a conservative, I could definately say that with that comment you are anti-Soldier.

Of course you would say that. You would jump at any oppurtunity to do so. Yes?

When I was in 1/8 Cav, we had five muslim soldiers. They definitely won their spurs. We had another soldier, who converted to Islam and used it as excuse to sham out of every detail he was stuck on. The difference being, those five guys were Muslims when they showed up, he switched as a means to get over. Being a life long member of the service, I'm sure you know the type.

Oh, BTW, what religion was that 101st soldier that fragged his company commander at the start of the war? Was he Penecostal? Oh, wait, he was a Muslim, yeah!

[Elrathin]

The difference being, those five guys were Muslims when they showed up, he switched as a means to get over. Being a life long member of the service, I'm sure you know the type.

So that means that EVERYONE that converts to Islam is a shammer?


Oh, BTW, what religion was that 101st soldier that fragged his company commander at the start of the war? Was he Penecostal? Oh, wait, he was a Muslim, yeah!


In the summer of 2003 at Ft. Bragg we had 3 soldiers return home, kill their wifes, kids, and then themselves. Were they Muslim? Oh wait, they were Christian, yeah! So does that mean all Christians go nuts when they come home? Of course not, so what's your point about the 101st soldier?

[apdst]

So that means that EVERYONE that converts to Islam is a shammer?

In most cases and you know that's a fact.

In the summer of 2003 at Ft. Bragg we had 3 soldiers return home, kill their wifes, kids, and then themselves. Were they Muslim? Oh wait, they were Christian, yeah!

Oh, but they were PTSD cases. Remember?

[Elrathin]

In most cases and you know that's a fact.


No, actually it isn't fact that most people that convert to Islam are shammers.


Oh, but they were PTSD cases. Remember?


The point went right over your head I see.

[lily]

In most cases and you know that's a fact.




Well.......if it's a fact, then you shouldn't have any problem with bringing links to support what you say.

[apdst]

No, actually it isn't fact that most people that convert to Islam are shammers.

You know, as well as I do that when a soldier has a deep religious experience, the next thing that happens is he starts talking about all the duties he can't carry out, anymore.


Well.......if it's a fact, then you shouldn't have any problem with bringing links to support what you say.

I'll do you one better. I'm speaking from first hand experience. I had a soldier that converted to Islam, while I was in Korea--at Camp Grieves. All of a sudden, he couldn't tote a weapon, because of his religion. He couldn't go on any sort of range detail, because of his religion. He couldn't go on KP, because he might have to come in contact with pork and that was a sin and on, and on, and on. Before we knew it, the only thing that wasn't against his religion was answering the phone in the orderly room. oh, and he couldn't remained stationed in Korea, because it was against his religion to support a combat mission and he needed to go back to the states. He finally got his wish and was detailed to secondary duty at Camp Casey as a driver for some staff officer. The night before he was supposed to PCS--permanent change of station--back stateside, he got busted by some ROK MP's, for DUI, in a US government vehicle. I guess drunk driving wasn't against his religion; I don't fully understand Islam.

[lily]

I'll do you one better. I'm speaking from first hand experience. I had a soldier that converted to Islam, while I was in Korea--at Camp Grieves. All of a sudden, he couldn't tote a weapon, because of his religion. He couldn't go on any sort of range detail, because of his religion. He couldn't go on KP, because he might have to come in contact with pork and that was a sin and on, and on, and on. Before we knew it, the only thing that wasn't against his religion was answering the phone in the orderly room. oh, and he couldn't remained stationed in Korea, because it was against his religion to support a combat mission and he needed to go back to the states. He finally got his wish and was detailed to secondary duty at Camp Casey as a driver for some staff officer. The night before he was supposed to PCS--permanent change of station--back stateside, he got busted by some ROK MP's, for DUI, in a US government vehicle. I guess drunk driving wasn't against his religion; I don't fully understand Islam.


That, sir is not a fact........it's a story. You made a claim that it's a fact, if that is so, it can't be too hard to find links. I quickly found links that stated there were thousands of Muslims in the army, after you stated and I quote........"I doubt it."

[Buck Laser]

Well.......if it's a fact, then you shouldn't have any problem with bringing links to support what you say.

I'll do you one better. I'm speaking from first hand experience. I had a soldier that converted to Islam, while I was in Korea--at Camp Grieves. All of a sudden, he couldn't tote a weapon, because of his religion. He couldn't go on any sort of range detail, because of his religion. He couldn't go on KP, because he might have to come in contact with pork and that was a sin and on, and on, and on. Before we knew it, the only thing that wasn't against his religion was answering the phone in the orderly room. oh, and he couldn't remained stationed in Korea, because it was against his religion to support a combat mission and he needed to go back to the states. He finally got his wish and was detailed to secondary duty at Camp Casey as a driver for some staff officer. The night before he was supposed to PCS--permanent change of station--back stateside, he got busted by some ROK MP's, for DUI, in a US government vehicle. I guess drunk driving wasn't against his religion; I don't fully understand Islam.

Lemme see if I got this right...you knew one soldier who converted to Islam. You had a bad experience with him, so you justify wholesale condemnation of anyone who undergoes a religious conversion in the service.

I'm sure glad to have that straight from the horse's mouth...or wherever.:grrrr:

[apdst]

Lemme see if I got this right...you knew one soldier who converted to Islam. You had a bad experience with him, so you justify wholesale condemnation of anyone who undergoes a religious conversion in the service.

Oh, he wasn't the only one, trust me.

[PatrickHenry]

Lemme see if I got this right...you knew one soldier who converted to Islam. You had a bad experience with him, so you justify wholesale condemnation of anyone who undergoes a religious conversion in the service.

Oh, he wasn't the only one, trust me.
Simply put...I don't believe you. Stories are easy to make up and impossible to substantiate.

So...I just dismiss your post as so much gas.

Personal recollection is no evidence at all.

[apdst]

Simply put...I don't believe you. Stories are easy to make up and impossible to substantiate.

So...I just dismiss your post as so much gas.

Personal recollection is no evidence at all.

Oh, so simply put, when you tell us about your military service it validates your opinion. When I do it, my opinion mean even less than it did before. No surprise there.

[TheStripey1]

Mon, 11 Feb 2008
Muslims believe that the Quran is the book of divine guidance and direction for mankind.

http://www.presstv.com/photo/20080211/shafabakhsh20080211210120222.jpg A US soldier in Afghanistan converts to Islam commenting that "Islam is pretty much the only religion that makes sense to me."

"I really wish everything would stop and we would be able to live together and be happy," Sergeant Wallace Nelson, 31, said after the Monday ceremony which was held near Pakistan border.

The ceremony was attended by district officials, including the area's Afghan army commander, and tribal elders.

He told AFP that his interaction with his interpreters and other Afghans had persuaded him to convert to Islam.

Afghan media reported in July last year that two American soldiers, a male and a female, serving in the US Airbase in Parvan in Bagram province, converted to Islam, changed their names, and married each other after serving five years in Afghanistan.

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=42684&sectionid=3510212


so what? Every citizen of these United states supposedly has the right to practice whatever religion they feel is right for them. This soldier is actively participating in defense of those rights for everyone, including himself.

What gives anyone the right to deny him?

After reading just a couple of posts... answer me this... are you trying to claim that christians don't kill others? If you are, maybe you should climb out from under that rock you're hiding under and read the news.[hr]
Oh, so simply put, when you tell us about your military service it validates your opinion. When I do it, my opinion mean even less than it did before. No surprise there.


I've been away for awhile... when did you serve? which branch?

I enlisted in the USAF, '66 to '70, with one tour in Viet nam which I also volunteered for.

Have you signed up with the VA yet?

[apdst]

What gives anyone the right to deny him?

No one is denying him that right. No one's even saying that he should be denied that right. Imspeaking from my own personal experience that tells me there's a high probability that his motives are suspect.

That's my opinion and I have the right to that opinion, no matter how many insults I get from the Lefties.

[TheStripey1]

What gives anyone the right to deny him?

No one is denying him that right. No one's even saying that he should be denied that right. Imspeaking from my own personal experience that tells me there's a high probability that his motives are suspect.

That's my opinion and I have the right to that opinion, no matter how many insults I get from the Lefties.



Anyone that claims his reasons are suspect is denying him his rights to practice whatever religion he desires to practice, including Islam. And that includes you. Did you serve to protect our rights or deny them to those you disagree with? Do you actually know this soldier? I think not, so how can you possibly say his motives are suspect? Did you walk in his boots? Have you seen what he has seen? Have you done what he has done?

When did you serve? Where? Which branch? and have you signed up with the VA yet?

and obtw, I'm basically a centrist tho I swing from the left predominantly because I can't stand the right.

[apdst]

I've been away for awhile... when did you serve? which branch?

This is a trap, I'm sure, but going by what I've seen so far, I think it's safe to bite. Let's see if there's a double standard here, or not.

Army, 87-90, Infantry. I spent most of my time in the Bradleys.

[TheStripey1]

I've been away for awhile... when did you serve? which branch?

This is a trap, I'm sure, but going by what I've seen so far, I think it's safe to bite. Let's see if there's a double standard here, or not.

Army, 87-90, Infantry. I spent most of my time in the Bradleys.


Now why would asking about your service be a trap? Why are you so defensive about it? As I recall, that time period was rather quiet... no wars... lucky you... the only kid I ever helped raise was in the army and in Bradleys during that time frame... He was stationed in Germany.

Maybe you need to sit down and take a deep breath. No wait, you are already sitting down. So try the deep breathing.

Have you signed up with the VA yet?[hr]and obtw, he died while in service to our country... tho not in the war... :sadly: and is planted in one of our National Cemetaries... as is my father... as will I when it is my turn...

[apdst]

I have a correction. I got out in 2000, not 1990.

As I recall, that time period was rather quiet... no wars... lucky you

Well, I wouldn't say "no", wars. Nothing on the scale of what we're involved in now. I've been told by some that my opinion doesn't count, because I never served in a, "real", war. That's the reason I got a little defensive. However, my experience on this forum told me that it will probably be okay to answer your question.

And, no, I haven't signed up for the VA yet.

When was your kid in Germany? There were two fatalities while I was with The 3rd ID. One when a Bradley drove into a creek one night. The driver was trapped and drowned. The other when a Bradley flipped over in a gully and cushed the commander. I heard rumor of an accidental shooting at Wow-Flickin, but never saw anything official about that. It wouldn't be surprised if it were true, there seemed to always be someone getting lit up at Wow-Flickin, or Graffenswear, everytime they had a shoot.

[TheStripey1]

Big difference between '90 and '00, besides the decade that is... The first Gulf War for instance...

It's funny that those that haven't served place qualifications on those who have by saying you were or weren't involved in a real war when they themselves weren't involved at all.

get your ass down to your local VA and sign up. Post haste. They have some of the finest most dedicated staff in the country despite what many in the media say.

I recently signed up so I know from my own experience. I've already been seen by my primary doc and had two followup visits to various clinics, audio, yes I do have SC ringing and hearing loss, and visual where the testing they gave me for glaucoma was far superior to the high priced civiliuan HMO I used to belong to and I am scheduled to have my optic nerves photographed in April, something my HMO NEVER did.

My Agent Orange test is next month... I had no idea whatsoever that I had been exposed but there are two pages of ailments I am covered for simply by being incountry.

Have you had a tox screen for Depleted Uranium?

and obtw, apdst, despite the fact that we are in opposition... and I mean this from the bottom of my heart...

Welcome Home!

obtw part deux, Robert died of a heart attack while jogging in DC. Even though he could do 200 pushups and ran 5 miles everyday, his arteries were 90% occluded. He was 33. And he wasn't actually "my" kid... I just helped raise him for a few years while I lived with his mother. He turned out a lot better than he acted as a kid... A double scorpio born on Halloween...

He was career army, thrived on the discipline therein, applied to and was accepted for OCS where he passed with flying colors and was a First Lieutenant when he died. The army lost a good man that day and I despite our constant head butting, a friend.

[DANG]

Islam is parallel to Judeo-Christian faith:
10 Commandments of Moses:
7. Thou shall not kill.

Quran:
....anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people. (5:32)
"You shall not kill any person - for God has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder, he will be helped."(17:33)So, whoever draws first blood is the "evil one".
That would be gw bush, in this case. He is the great satan.

[TheStripey1]

Islam is parallel to Judeo-Christian faith:
10 Commandments of Moses:
7. Thou shall not kill.

Quran:
....anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people. (5:32)
"You shall not kill any person - for God has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder, he will be helped."(17:33)So, whoever draws first blood is the "evil one".
That would be gw bush, in this case. He is the great satan.



Dunno about that, DANG, christians and muslims have been fighting and killing each other for centuries... remember the Crusades?

well, laffs, neither do I... but that was a hellofa lot longer ago than when bush declared war upon them in 2001...

[DANG]

But, Stripey, we had no business inserting ourselves into their issues.
It was NOT our battle.
(Besides Iraq was secular when we invaded.)


~~~~~
It would be a good thing for all soldiers to lay down arms in solidarity as conscientious objectors.
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5936/warkillschildrenjk7.jpg
Just because you THINK we are exporting democracy... doesnt mean we are not responsible for more murder than the guy we usurped.

[Alonzo]

Dunno about that, DANG, christians and muslims have been fighting and killing each other for centuries... remember the Crusades?


Christians and Jews have been doing it longer, and no one denies their ties.

[TheStripey1]

Dunno about that, DANG, christians and muslims have been fighting and killing each other for centuries... remember the Crusades?


Christians and Jews have been doing it longer, and no one denies their ties.


doing what longer? killing each other? perhaps that is because Islam is younger than both... but you could be right...

so, uhhhh, alonzo... what's this about a lobotomy???? :evil:

I've been away for a while...

[Truth Detector]

December......you've got me stumped on this one. I can't figure out why this
is current events or even why it's considered news.

but.......Carry on........

My wayward son. There'll be peace when you are done. Lay your weary head to rest.....


Amen to this...it begs the question, as always with this poster; what's the point?
:dizzy:

[DANG]

I am still not convinced 911 was a religious attack. At least not the way we have been told it unfolded.
The FBI is not convinced OBL had anything to do with 911.... and neither am I.

The bush admin has (ab)used religion to rile up the christo-fascist zombie brigade(c).... because he needed a viable enemy to carry out the hegemonic designs of the PNAC contract.

911 was the Reichstag or "New Pearl Harbor" that the neo-cons needed to get the war in the middle east. It hardly matters that there was no (real) investigation to find out Who dunnit.
All they needed was a poster child
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2713/oblnq7.jpg
....and your own imagination fueled by official lies and propaganda would fill in the blanks.

Junior said his god told him to attack Iraq....
I dont believe it. Any chance that conversation is recorded?

Why is it that when Andrea Yates (http://www.answerway.com/viewans.php?pgtitle=&expid=darkstar&category=633&msection=&quesid=35565&ansid=138154)is told by God to kill her children she is delusional and hallucinating?
But when a man who can snap his fingers and battalions and bombers rush to slaughter (appx 1 million) innocent people its perfectly acceptable?

What makes one admired by adoring unassuming fans....
and the other a paranoid Schizophrenic??

Maybe we need to take religious whack job fanatics out of politics, indefinitely (or longer).

[TheStripey1]

I am still not convinced 911 was a religious attack. At least not the way we have been told it unfolded.
The FBI is not convinced OBL had anything to do with 911.... and neither am I.

The bush admin has (ab)used religion to rile up the christo-fascist zombie brigade(c).... because he needed a viable enemy to carry out the hegemonic designs of the PNAC contract.

911 was the Reichstag or "New Pearl Harbor" that the neo-cons needed to get the war in the middle east. It hardly matters that there was no (real) investigation to find out Who dunnit.
All they needed was a poster child
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2713/oblnq7.jpg
....and your own imagination fueled by official lies and propaganda would fill in the blanks.

Junior said his god told him to attack Iraq....
I dont believe it. Any chance that conversation is recorded?

Why is it that when Andrea Yates (http://www.answerway.com/viewans.php?pgtitle=&expid=darkstar&category=633&msection=&quesid=35565&ansid=138154)is told by God to kill her children she is delusional and hallucinating?
But when a man who can snap his fingers and battalions and bombers rush to slaughter (appx 1 million) innocent people its perfectly acceptable?

What makes one admired by adoring unassuming fans....
and the other a paranoid Schizophrenic??

Maybe we need to take religious whack job fanatics out of politics, indefinitely (or longer).


got a link to the FBI saying Osama Been Forgotten wasn't involved in 9/11 cuz I'd like to read it... no hurry tho... I'll be around again tomorrow but now, I have real things to do.

See y'all next time... :ecstatic:

[DANG]

True...
True...
No...
and no, I am not one that subscribes to the theory that we are exporting democracy, that would be the right wingers...

The stuff below the:
"~~~~~"
I had already typed up before I saw your post.... it was not directed at you.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[apdst]

Christians and Jews have been doing it longer, and no one denies their ties.

Muslims have been advancing their religion via genocide since it's inception in the 7th Century and have shown no signs are letting up. The Jews have no history of slaughter as do the Muslims. The Christians have had their moments, to be sure, but they have certainly grown out of the practice.

As far as the Crusades are concerned, they were a defensive reaction Islamic aggression. Pure and simple.

[DANG]

got a link to the FBI saying Osama Been Forgotten wasn't involved in 9/11 cuz I'd like to read it... no hurry tho... I'll be around again tomorrow but now, I have real things to do.

See y'all next time... :ecstatic:

Sure;
TPM Muckraker (http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html)

FBI says, “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11”


June 6, 2006 – This past weekend, a thought provoking e-mail circulated through Internet news groups, and was sent to the Muckraker Report by Mr. Paul V. Sheridan (Winner of the 2005 Civil Justice Foundation Award), bringing attention to the FBI’s Most Wanted Terrorist web page for Usama Bin Laden.[1] (See bottom of this web page for Most Wanted page) In the e-mail, the question is asked, “Why doesn’t Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster make any direct connection with the events of September 11, 2001?” The FBI says on its Bin Laden web page that Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998 bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. According to the FBI, these attacks killed over 200 people. The FBI concludes its reason for “wanting” Bin Laden by saying, “In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorists attacks throughout the world.”



On June 5, 2006, the Muckraker Report contacted the FBI Headquarters, (202) 324-3000, to learn why Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster did not indicate that Usama was also wanted in connection with 9/11. The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”



Surprised by the ease in which this FBI spokesman made such an astonishing statement, I asked, “How this was possible?” Tomb continued, “Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11.” I asked, “How does that work?” Tomb continued, “The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice than decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, Bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connected Bin Laden to 9/11.”



It shouldn’t take long before the full meaning of these FBI statements start to prick your brain and raise your blood pressure. If you think the way I think, in quick order you will be wrestling with a barrage of very powerful questions that must be answered. First and foremost, if the U.S. government does not have enough hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11, how is it possible that it had enough evidence to invade Afghanistan to “smoke him out of his cave?” The federal government claims to have invaded Afghanistan to “root out” Bin Laden and the Taliban. Through the talking heads in the mainstream media, the Bush Administration told the American people that Usama Bin Laden was Public Enemy Number One and responsible for the deaths of nearly 3000 people on September 11, 2001. Yet nearly five years later, the FBI says that it has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.

more.... (http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html) But we have those video tapes that OBL would release in such favorable time slots (elections and to distract for bush law breaking/making) are'nt those taped CONFESSIONS valid , "Hard Evidence" ?? No??? Why NOT??? Were they tampered with???
Those Osama Videos were TAMPERED WITH???? OMG, you would think Karl Rove would have thoroughly vetted those for truthiness.

So, we have no confessions and the FBI doesnt even WANT OBL for 911:
(its a wide pic, close spoiler after viewing)

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1094/oblwantedfo4.jpg
Click the link (http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html)to get the fully sourced article.

In spite of OBL NOT being responsible for 911.... that didnt stop bush and cronies from waving the OBL TERRA!! flag in every public speech.
EVEN REGARDING IRAQ (Saddam hated religious zealots... had NOTHING to do with OBL)

[apdst]

Since you believe UBL wasn't involved with 9/11, who do you believe IS responsible.

[PatrickHenry]

Since you believe UBL wasn't involved with 9/11, who do you believe IS responsible.
Somebody who had access to the buildings demolished that day.
http://www.ae911truth.org/

[DANG]

Since you believe UBL wasn't involved with 9/11, who do you believe IS responsibleYou want me to speculate?

Who had control of NORAD that morning?
When bush was out of town on a photo-op?
There were war games that morning that involved hijacked planes....
Dick Cheney was directing those "Games".
Were the war games ever shut down to cope with the very real threat?

I have not seen that.
We need to get Dick Cheney under oath.
Why wouldnt Dick testify EXCEPT behind closed doors and off the record?? Hiding something?? ABSO-fúcking-LUTELY....
Will we ever know? Not as long as they are in charge of investigating THEMSELVES!!!


edit to fix {tags] & add quote

[Buck Laser]

Simply put...I don't believe you. Stories are easy to make up and impossible to substantiate.

So...I just dismiss your post as so much gas.

Personal recollection is no evidence at all.

Oh, so simply put, when you tell us about your military service it validates your opinion. When I do it, my opinion mean even less than it did before. No surprise there.

So there you go again, doubting someone else's military service because you have a different opinion. Sheesh!

How about you provide some documentary evidence that people who have religious experiences are fuckups? I'm just dying to see it.:clapper:

[Mia]

Who wants to bet he'll suddenly be unable to kill his fellow Muslims, before long? Then, he'll insist that her be stationed stateside, for the duration of the war, because of his religious convictions. The next thing you know, he can't go on KP, because he might come in contact with pork, then he won't be able to touch a weapon, so that will rule out a buncha different details.




Haven't we gone to war against 'fellow Christians'? Why should this be different?

[Mia]

Oh, my bad. I'm off-topic now responding to the OP,,,,,,

[Questerr]

Christians and Jews have been doing it longer, and no one denies their ties.

Muslims have been advancing their religion via genocide since it's inception in the 7th Century and have shown no signs are letting up. The Jews have no history of slaughter as do the Muslims. The Christians have had their moments, to be sure, but they have certainly grown out of the practice.


I think the original settlers of Jeicho, Judea, Galilee, and the other areas that the Jews committed "God-Ordered" genocide on would disagree with you.

[Mia]

The Jews were just late bloomers, I guess. They have quite a good 'history' of slaughter beginning after WWII. Give them time and they will catch up to the rest of us.

[apdst]

I think the original settlers of Jeicho, Judea, Galilee, and the other areas that the Jews committed "God-Ordered" genocide on would disagree with you.

If you look at the Bible, you'll see that those actions were strictly defensive.

The Jews were just late bloomers, I guess. They have quite a good 'history' of slaughter beginning after WWII. Give them time and they will catch up to the rest of us.

Got some examples? Seems to me that the Israelis were just taking back their homeland. What if The Indians did that in The United States? Would you support it?

[Truth Detector]

Christians and Jews have been doing it longer, and no one denies their ties.

Muslims have been advancing their religion via genocide since it's inception in the 7th Century and have shown no signs are letting up. The Jews have no history of slaughter as do the Muslims. The Christians have had their moments, to be sure, but they have certainly grown out of the practice.


I think the original settlers of Jeicho, Judea, Galilee, and the other areas that the Jews committed "God-Ordered" genocide on would disagree with you.


This argument begs for a reason to be arguing it. We are in the present, the State of Israel was created by the United Nations and the nation of Israel was born in 1948.

Fast forward to the present, Hamas and Hezbolah are at war with them. But not a war where identifiable armies confront one another on the battlefield and fight for a decisive victory, but one where terrorists strap bombs on themselves and blow themselves up in Synagogues, buses and wedding ceremonies.

The Israeli people are a peaceful people just wanting to protect that which the United Nations gave them, a tiny strip of land the size of Connecticut. They don't strap bombs to women and children to go killing innocents. How can you even intimate that there is ANY similarity between the despotic acts of Arab terrorists and Israelis?

Why are they not entitled to that land that the United Nations carved out for them after WWII?

Why is it that after creating the State of Israel, the UN sat on it's collective hands when it was attacked by three Arab nations in the 1950's? Why is it that after creating the State of Israel, the UN sat on its collective hands when three Arab legions attacked it in the 1960's? Why is it that after creating the State of Israel, the UN sat on its collective hands when again, three Arab armies assaulted it?

So all this history begs the question, what is your point?

Are we now to suggest that in the interest of peace and oil we abandon Israel and force her to withdraw to her original borders and give up all the land it occupied when it was illegally attacked three times by Arab Nations?

Are we all arguing for the destruction of a Nations that was created as a result of the collective Guilt of the world after the events in WWII and the holocaust and the imperialistic occupation of the Palestinian lands by European nations?

What I find fascinating about anyone defending the proposed genocide of the Israeli nation is that no one ever gave a shit about them and had written them off when the Egyptian, Iraqi and Syrian armies invaded; it is amazing that this tiny strip of dirt called Israel with a fraction of the people and an outnumbered army beat the pants off the Arabs surprising everyone.

They most certainly earned their right to exist without the help of the very UN that did nothing when it was attacked.

Now we debate about how Israel has also had its history of genocide when nothing could be further from the truth. Since 1948 and the creation of the nation of Israel, they have been desirous of living in peace. Three assaults on their nation were ignored by the world and now people here on this forum and many others constantly argue the Arab case for Genocide of the Israeli people.

You have to be an absolute hypocrite to make the case for Arab hegemony.

[December]

I'd prefer to believe it was a genuine religious conversion.


I know some Americans who converted to Islam. They feel that Islam is the true way to God.