evils of sweatshops

[Athena]

I am declaring war on the ignorance expressed Nathan and others. Nathan is wrong to believe low wage workers are low productive workers and therefore not deserving of higher wages. People who comment without reading, and not informed people. I strongly suggest you either read one of these links and comment about what you have read, or don't post to this thread.

PDF] Anti-Sweatshop and Anti-Slavery The Moral Force of Capitalism File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Western consumers, citizens, corporations, and governments to the evils of sweatshops and. their responsibility to sweatshop workers. ...
www.consume.bbk.ac.uk/citizenship/Micheletti.pdf - Similar pages


The Quaker Economist #10 - Zoroastrian Quakers What are the evils we should be protesting? Certainly war is one. ... As soon as I hear us singing, "Quakers, MNCs, and sweatshops together," I might join ...
www.quaker.org/tqe/2001/TQE010-EN-Zoroastrian.html - 17k - Cached - Similar pages


IHS Child Slave Labor :: Governments and Children
Some people say that eventually the natural evolution of the free market will end the evils of sweatshop, and slave labor. They say that the children who ...
ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=97 - 6k - Cached - Similar pages


Chinese workers reportedly toil in "iPod City" - Engadget It's simply a matter of selecting the lesser of two evils, and a slow ... More proof that corporations are evil. Posted at 2:38PM on Jun 13th 2006 by cccp [ ...
www.engadget.com/2006/06/13/chinese-workers-reportedly-toil-in-ipod-city/ - 119k - Aug 14, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Unfortunately what the West views as sweatshops or detrimental "child labor" in the countries they operate in are highly sought after and well paying jobs by local or national standards.

I remember reading when Kathie Lee Gifford was accused of child labor she shut down the factor(y)(ies) where the abuses were supposed to have occured and it put hundreds of child laborers out of work. Now, by Western standards they would have been put in school, spent time with their families etc. However these kids and their families needed those jobs to survive. There were no Western standards of school or family to fall back on.

As a result they were thrown back into or further into poverty in the name of American sensibilities and PR.

The same is true of "abuses" I've read about Nike operations in Vietnam. Now, by American standards they were being paid nothing. The figure I believe was somewhere between $12-15 a day and $80 per week. However the alternative jobs for many if not most of the workers was 50-60% of that. By local standards Nike paid well and attracted very good workers.

The rest of the world is not America. Aren't we reminded of this daily by people often well intentioned but ignorant of that fact? Are we supposed to ignore local standards and reality? What happened to diversity and accepting foreign cultures as legitimate? Are Western standards supposed to usurp soverignty of national governments if they don't rise to our ideals? Wouldn't local or national governments shut down such operations if they weren't acceptable to them?

Corporations are not evil for taking advantage of world wide economic realites and it is arrogant of Western activists to assume they can impose their moral, ethical and business sensibilities on the rest of the world.

[Alonzo]

They're sought after, but not exactly well paid. Many workers complain of abuse, excessive docking of pay, low wages etc. The money is needed, they need these jobs, but you can say the same about some people working at the register at Mcdonalds. Many sweatshops are in violation of labor laws of the countries they exist in, some pay below minimum wage and require forced overtime longer than the law allows, both of which happened with nike in vietnam.

Sweat shops are a difficult issue, simply removing the work does little benefit, yet leaving them as is doesn't do much either. You need to force these companies to pay better wages and improve conditions, and penalize them in the countries they make money (u.s., japan etc.) when they don't. Ensure they meet the countries labor laws or, if none or minimal exist, a basic level of decency. That doesn't mean pay u.s. wages, but improve conditions and pay wages that are consistent with the needs of workers in that country.

[Rider]

I believe that our best bet to help alleviate this type of problem and the problem of $15 a day labor competing with $15 an hour labor is to institute a system designed to provide "fair"trade rather than " free" trade.

[Nathan Brazil]

That doesn't mean pay u.s. wages, but improve conditions and pay wages that are consistent with the needs of workers in that country.

That matter is their problem, not ours. The only thing a consumer should do is voluntarily boycott products identified as being produced in such shops.

That's how freedom works. And if someone else is willing to buy those products because they're less expensive, guess what? That's freedom, too.

Over time, the people in the "exploited" countries will regulate their own shops to meet their own standards. Even formerly commie China is unionizing Wal-Marts these days.

Or maybe we should pull the Army out of Iraq and go occupy Mauretania?

[Nathan Brazil]

I am declaring war on the ignorance expressed Nathan and others.Â*Â*Nathan is wrong to believe low wage workers are low productive workers and therefore not deserving of higher wages.

And you're wrong in stating what my opinions are.

Low wage workers are paid less because....they're productivity is low and thus don't earn a higher wage. As for "deserving" a higher wage, wtf does the concept of individual worth got to do with it? What they "deserve" is what the market forces say they deserve. If there's too many hands and not enough sewing machines, the market says the employer doesn't have to pay a lot for labor. When the machines are sitting idle, the employer has to raise wages to encourage more workers into his shop, but only if the demand for the product can support such an expansion.

This ain't magic, and it ain't about feeling good. It's money, plain and simple.


People who comment without reading, and not informed people.

When you gonna print that one out and eat it?

www.consume.bbk.ac.uk/citizenship/Micheletti.pdf

It's sixty pages long, how about a synopsis. It seems to be saying that it's better to have a low wage job than no job at all, and that capitalism is the cure for pre-industrial ills. Makes sense to me.


The Quaker Economist #10 - Zoroastrian Quakers What are the evils we should be protesting? Certainly war is one. ... As soon as I hear us singing, "Quakers, MNCs, and sweatshops together," I might join ...

Ah, a readable length. And he seems to be arguing that capitalism is good, anarchist morons protesting via riot bad.

IHS Child Slave Labor :: Governments and Children
Some people say that eventually the natural evolution of the free market will end the evils of sweatshop, and slave labor. They say that the children who ...

Sorry, I ain't reading all your links, this link didn't work and I'm too lazy to cut and paste. But it seems to be a paean for capitalism. My kind of article, I'm sure.

Chinese workers reportedly toil in "iPod City" - Engadget It's simply a matter of selecting the lesser of two evils, and a slow ... More proof that corporations are evil. Posted at 2:38PM on Jun 13th 2006 by cccp [ ...
www.engadget.com/2006/06/13/chinese-workers-reportedly-toil-in-ipod-city/ - 119k - Aug 14, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages

Ever since the Garden of Eden, the Apple has been a source of evil....depending on how you define evil. If those people don't like working there, they can quit, can't they? Oh, wait, there's probably no place nearby offering as good a deal, so in the end the market laws of supply and demand again work out, as they always do.

They're getting what they deserve, since deserts are determined by the environment.

I'd say that Athena needs to stop jabbing at people and start paying attention to what they're saying. Here she is, posting a quartet of links that firmly establish my position as being the correct one to take.